Our wedding anniversary is next week Part 5

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Mod Note:  Part 4 of this thread is located here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340759.0;all

Now, the question is, what will you respond if she sends another message today or tomorrow trying to prompt you into joining her emotional drama again? I dunno, something like "Well you obviously couldn't give a   about me, ignoring my messages!"

Any suggestions?

Good morning Enabler,

I've been thinking about this.  My opinion is she will wait a few days and text me something about Dog1 or something none confrontational.  Or she will say something like "what no comment?"
And if she does... I was thinking of something like.  

I'm here, if you would like to talk I will listen, but I'm not going to validate something that isn't true.  

or

It really sounds like you are struggling and that this is very difficult for you.

Thoughts or suggestions as to how I should reply?

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

Mod Note:  Part 4 of this thread is located here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340759.0;all

Now, the question is, what will you respond if she sends another message today or tomorrow trying to prompt you into joining her emotional drama again? I dunno, something like "Well you obviously couldn't give a   about me, ignoring my messages!"

Any suggestions?

Good morning Enabler,

I've been thinking about this.  My opinion is she will wait a few days and text me something about Dog1 or something none confrontational.  Or she will say something like "what no comment?"
And if she does... I was thinking of something like.  

I'm here, if you would like to talk I will listen, but I'm not going to validate something that isn't true.  

or

It really sounds like you are struggling and that this is very difficult for you.

Thoughts or suggestions as to how I should reply?

SH4

[Enabler]

Option 1... I like that

If she sends you something about the dog, be normal and go with the flow.

I'm not suggesting you weaponise your messages, but I'm suggesting you use consideration as to what will be beneficial to respond to. Dead end car crash... turn off the road. BUT... be consistent

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Got it.  Trying...still learning.  I have a feeling I will always be learning.  Learning is one thing, but putting it into practice is another!  Thanks for all of your help!

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

Ok I did it... I fed into the drama.

One of her "friends" post on social media this big thing about "Right now you might be in a situation that you think you won't survive but six months ago you were in a situation you didn't think you'd survive and two years before that you were in a situation you didn't think you'd survive and the point is you will always surprise yourself and you will always make it through " and she tagged my W with a little heart.  I LOVED it and commented "Because in reality ...MAYBE the situations isn't as bad as one THINKS...and US empaths tend to believe everything we hear"...then I texted my wife and simply said "I'm so embarrassed for you"

Like WHAT THE FLIP is she telling people...ohhhhh this poor poor me story.  POOR POOR W...

I AM READY TO BE DONE!

[Enabler]

STOP DOING THAT... NOW

Regardless of whether or not you and your wife's relationship lasts, a good life skill is to learn that some people will talk rubbish and some people will believe that rubbish... but DON'T WRESTLE WITH PIGS, YOU GET MUDDLE AND THEY LOVE IT.

Your W has her narrative, and that doesn't align to your experience or maybe the facts. Fighting against this difference will be utterly futile and you will just look like a controlling nutter who's running around trying to tell people whats what. If you can't help yourself, remove yourself from social media.

I spent a long time attempting to correct the narrative with my own and my wife's network, it was one of the most destructive things I did to the relationship and it was one of the most destructive things I did for the possibility of anyone believing her stories were not correct. In essence I was validating her claims that I was controlling...

There is HUGE HUGE HUGE value in THE PAUSE, when you think of writing anything on social media, when you think of replying to your wife... PAUSE for half an hour at least. Then consider whether or not you are REACTING or RESPONDING... you're emotional at the moment, don't let your emotional mind write on social media or texting.

If you get a chance, read The Chimp Paradox. It's a great way to visualise your mind.
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Chimp_Paradox.html?id=6gx55pHEfWgC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Enabler

[once removed]

I AM READY TO BE DONE!

if you are ready to be done, be done.

dont damn the torpedoes. dont blow things up.

choose a path. commit to it in an emotionally healthy way. again and again, consistently.

SH4, i am not sure you have reached that point of committing.

I texted her last night before bed..just saying I hope she had a nice birthday and I would have liked to do more to make it special for her I love you.  She didn't reply.

Then I texted her this morning.."Today is our 10 year first date aversary"  Not reply.

no reply generally means pull back. its too much.

[Stillhopeful4]

Ok too late.  I blew things up.  Her friend posted something else later on and commented on it about how one of her friends was hurting so much and that some people (me) don't see how much they are hurting her and her friend can't take seeing it anymore.  I reacted to the attack by her "friend" and said some bad stuff on social media and called her friend out and told her if she wanted to hear the other side of the story I'm available...then this friend said that sounded like a threat (please tell me how that sounds like a threat)...then I deleted it...because WT flip have I done to deserve that?  NOTHING!

I sent W a few texts that weren't too nice saying things like I don't know how you can sleep at night with all the lies you are spewing about me.  and you left me no choice but to defend myself and tell the truth.  And you wanted this over, you got your wish so now you can have a clear concience with all the people you are reeling in with your poor me story and that I thought it was sick and that they will eventually find out the TRUTH.

No replies...as I expected.

I know I know I played right into her plan.  I look like the ultimate bad guy.  I shouldn't have reacted.  But I did.  At what point do I get to tell my side?  I know the answer I don't get to tell my side.  She will come out looking like the angel and she's making me look like a horrible person, which I know I'm not.  She's been the one that's lied so much and been unfaithful so many times and NOBODY knows that side of the story.  Nobody knows the things she's done to me, the weeks of silent treatment...the reactive abuse that she caused me to partake in (yesterday was one of them).

Her flying monkeys have been released and the smear campaign is in full swing.  I just don't know how I'm going to make it thru this. 

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

And...she contacted an attorney this morning...

[Enabler]

I don't know you, I wasn't in the room for every single arguement that you and your W have ever had... and for that matter I don't want to be as foolish as your W's 'team' by cheerleading you, chairing you round the room and saying what you've just written is 100% true... THAT... IS OF NO USE TO YOU as much as it's of NO USE TO YOUR WIFE.

However, you are right about a couple of things:

- I don't get to tell my side - correct, you probably don't get to tell your side, and since when has 'telling' anyone something they don't already believe changed a persons mind?
- I look like the ultimate bad guy - correct, every time you react that EXACTLY what you look like and yes " I played right into her plan" you did, although I would temper the thought of whether or not it was a 'plan', I would guess it is more likely to be her truth... she believes this... she believes this for complicated reasons, but she believes it.
- Nobody knows the things she's done to me, the weeks of silent treatment...the reactive abuse that she caused me to partake in (yesterday was one of them) - probably... your W might know though and you know, and who else really matters here?

This sucks balls massively, it really really really does, I'll not tell you otherwise. You have come a long way BUT, I sense that you still haven't radically accepted the complexity of the disorder (assuming you and the T are correct). It hasn't yet sunk in how she processes information in a different way to you, believes things that you find unbelievable, feels wronged due to a situation where the majority of other people would consider her in the wrong... and she's willing to tell other people and rally support to make her feel okay about that.

Like I said in my previous post, think smart, PAUSE, think smart again, if you're tempted to react then remove yourself from the things that are likely to cause you to react. Find good people, people who will listen to you and critique you. If your wife wishes to run around rallying the pity party then there's nothing you can do about that... leave her to that delusion, it's not going to help her in the long run and she's unlikely to find true happiness flying on her private jet to Neverland. TAKE A DIFFERENT PATH.

You are more than capable of doing this SH4, get your   together!

Enabler

[Enabler]

And...she contacted an attorney this morning...

I'm very very sorry to hear this SH4.

That's a statement of intent but just the start of another road.

All the more reason to stop reacting to the noise.

Sending a massive hug over the pond 

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Thank you all for your help and support.  This weekend things went from worse to even worse.  I am beside myself.  I haven't been able to stop crying and throwing up.

Let's just say I reacted in a bad way and it probably cost me her ever speaking to me again.

SH4

[Enabler]

Morning SH4, sorry to hear this. Try and get yourself centred again, you're going to be fine eventually no matter what happens. I hope you know that.

Enabler

[Helipilot]

I don't know if you are already, but start therapy.

You need to take care of yourself. Its very painful and you wont feel like to but you must do it, otherwise you will only remain sad and broken...

There may be nothing you could have done... and it wasnt even your fault...

It's not fair, but it is how it is... Just try to take care of yourself, the pain is very real, i know...

But maybe with time it will fade, or ate least you will handle it much better.

[Stillhopeful4]

Thank you both.  Yes, I am in therapy.  It was just very hard this weekend to not react to the vicious lies she was spreading about me.  Then I did a hail Mary...and texted her boss (she's only been her boss for about 2 years, but the girl has been my friend for 20).  I reached out, was very very nice and told her about the AvPD/BPD and told her W was unaware and that she should tread lightly with this info.  Needless to say all she did was forward the text to my W and all of her friends and said she knew it was a lie because people with BPD/AvPD can't hold down a job.  Now they are making fun of it all over social media.  W went to my daughter and tried to turn her against me.  Things spiraled down quick and my W blocked me on everything and will not reply to texts.  I've been ghosted.  It's very very sad.  After everything I tried to do for her for 10 years and all I ever wanted in return was love.

[Enabler]

Yikes SH4, that sound brutal. I've been there, done that, have the scars. Sometimes it feels like if people just knew what you knew things would be different, advice would be different and somehow they would help her see the truth. My W has a friend at church, she was a part qualified child physiologist at the time working in practice. I tried to enlighten her and her assessment was "I don't see the emotional intensity in your W, I think this is just common all garden marital discourse"... I felt massively deflated as although I didn't expect her to 'see' what I saw, I expected her to have an appreciation that she may not see the entire picture. I expected her to be able to understand that these things are nuanced and people behave in different ways and often that the experience is only in the intimate environment and not with friends or even colleagues. "High functioning pwBPD" are often invisible to the outside world because they somehow managed to keep themselves together when everyone's looking.

Not only does this sound like it has massively backfired but also sounds like it would be very disappointing on many levels for you. Not only did you reach out to someone whom you considered had the professional knowledge to understand the situation, but you also thought you might have a bank (20yrs) of integrity with her such that she would at least consider the viability of your information rather than just blurt it out to your W... I do find that action a little strange from someone with counselling experience.

I feel for you I really do. That said, it's worth examining the motivations for telling the friend, we did discuss it here if I remember correctly. I know it's tough to believe in unicorns whilst all around you seem not to, but these things are often best unsaid. It can even lead to the sense of isolation since you are one amongst many and one of a few that considers her to suffer from BPD traits. That said, your T also believes that she has BPD traits and he should know better than most. Generally people will consider you telling them that someone is mentally disordered when they consider that person to be mentally sound to be a bit abusive, it comes across as the voice of a scorned partner.

What do you plan on doing now?

Enabler   

[Stillhopeful4]

"I don't see the emotional intensity in your W, I think this is just common all garden marital discourse"

Yup that's what it is, they don't see if because the majority of it goes on behind closed doors.
Those are the words W actually used to my daughter saying that I AM SO ABUSE and she has no idea the things I've done behind CLOSED DOORS.  I sat there with my jaw on the floor.  OMG it's her and my daughter knows it.  Even my 16 son last night was saying things like mom, we know it's her...yes you yelled and reacted, but the crap she did to you she deserved it.

I do find that action a little strange from someone with counselling experience.

I'm shocked...completely shocked as well.  I figured worst case she would watch for it.  But to share the text and the mock about it on social media...completely SHOCKED.  My W does have a way of manipulating people, so I guess the boss is in the fog.  Maybe she's not close enough to her yet...but maybe they will spread it to enough people and someone might google things...I guess I should have been more specific and said high functioning.

What do you plan on doing now?

So I also talked to my step daughters mom, W's x from 4 years prior to me.  I was floored by the things she said...like let me guess she played to poor me and you felt bad for her and took care of her and then she walked all over  you and took everything you had and treated you like poop then left you after she secured someone else.  Then when she tries to come back in a year she will tell you all her friends made her file for divorce and that she didn't want to.  And to notice how she had to make a completely new circle of friends, because she already used this story on her old friends about x's several times and no one believes her.  Yup I was enlightened.  I reached out to her because she is an attorney and said she would be glad to help me, but she can only practice across state lines, so she's out, but she referred me to a very very VERY good lawyer.  At this point all I can do is take it one day at a time.  I am going to try my hardest not to text her about anything.  I'm going to try even harder not to respond to social media flying monkeys onslaught that has only just begun.

I'm so worried about Dog1 and that I'm never going to see him again.

SH4

[Enabler]

Part of me is very glad you have been able to verify your own sanity with regards to your experience. Although involving your own kids is not idea they offer insight into your behind closed doors experience. Verify the almost formulaic nature of your experience with your w via her ex is also very powerful.

My advice to you is to ignore social media, it’s not helpful at this point and will likely trigger you. Try and distance yourself from anything that is likely to trigger you into tipping more fuel on her emotional fire. I’m not suggesting you hide or run scared,along a conscious decision to take yourself away is powerful and YOU being in control. There will be times when you wish to react, but in essence you’re starving the fire of oxygen.

Lawyers will want to up the anti BUT will take your guidance on how you wish to handle things. If it’s sensible, a passive approach with minimal drama could be wise. Know the lay of the land, have wisdom and insight into the process but show restraint, else be prepared for bigger legal bills and more drama.

This is a change in the situation but you still have options. Certain actions you take now will remove some of those options. Be thoughtful and wise with your future actions, petulance is costly and pride comes before.a fall.

Can the x give you wisdom even if she can’t act for you?

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Yes, my goal is to not fuel her fire, but I have said that before. 

The x gave me A LOT of insight and was very helpful!

I have appointment with T in two days.  I'm sure that's not going to go well and he will probably be pissed at me that I eluded to the BPD/AvPD to the boss.  I'm going to go because I want to tell him about her probably no going back to him.  I will understand if he doesn't want to see me anymore.  I'm also going to present to him what I said to her BOSS and let him know how she presented it to my daughter...can you believe she went to my boss with this info...she will probably present to him in the same way.  Because at face value that looks pretty evil.  But the fact that she won't let on that I didn't go to "her boss", I confided in what I thought was a friend of mine for the past 20 years.

Anyway, got a bit of good news yesterday, my daughter and her hubby got their orders (he's in the military) for the next 2 1/2 years and they are only going to be a little over an hour away.  I'm so excited as are they.  It was tough over the weekend because they thought they had them, then they lost them and were told they might be going to the opposite coast.  Very thankful they are going to be close by!

SH4

[Enabler]

Great news about your daughter and her husband. It will be great to have them nice and close to you so you will have better access.

I'm not sure it's the T's job to be angry with you. I am sure he is aware of what is likely to happen you knowing about BPD, he should be aware of the temptation for you to try and fix things. You know now that it wasn't a great choice (but who know's it could have gone the other way). Try not to preempt too much what your W is going to do. This is one of the downsides of sharing a T with your W, there becomes an element of managing her or managing the T through your sessions rather than focusing on your own mental health. Try and focus on you, try not to focus on winning over the T and triangulating him into your arguments with your W.

Regarding the things you might react to such as Facebook or Insta... have you considered putting your account on hold for a few months to eliminate the temptation? I know it might seem like you're losing by removing yourself from the great society that is social media, but I don't see it that way, you're making a choice to remove yourself from something that could end up pretty toxic.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

We shall see how it goes with T on Thursday.  I will try my best to focus on me.

I have thought about removing myself from social media, but I'm not ready for that right now, especially with the holiday's upon us and a very big milestone birthday.    Can't imagine not seeing all the memories on timehop.  But I am considering it.

SH4

[Enabler]

What about getting someone to change the password for you therefore restricting your access to certain times?

I’m just trying to think of ways you can stay away from social media since like you pointed out, you said before that you can’t help yourself sometimes.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

I'm limiting my time on social media.  I'm also considering blocking the 176 mutual friends we had.  But I think that is a bit extreme.  I think at the very least I will bring myself to delete her new "perfect" circle.

I'm just going to stand firm and ignore everything right now because I know they are all just looking for "proof" that I am the problem.  I refuse to give them anything else.  They really aren't worth it.

SH4

[Enabler]

I'm limiting my time on social media.  I'm also considering blocking the 176 mutual friends we had.  But I think that is a bit extreme.  I think at the very least I will bring myself to delete her new "perfect" circle.

Is that a reaction aimed to "show" something, or is that a response aimed to take a different path?

Stick to responses.

You don't need to shout from the rooftops that you're doing something different. This is about you, not them .

Enabler

[Enabler]

I'm just going to stand firm and ignore everything right now because I know they are all just looking for I can see that I am just supplying "proof" that I am the problem. 

I doubt these people are looking for anything. Your wife told them a plausible narrative to what they were seeing, the narrative that you told them was 'less' plausible and therefore they chose to believe her narrative. You just provided them with evidence that reinforced what they believed... and it doesn't much matter about the reasons why that evidence came to light.

Keep on your path. If you can't trust yourself on FB... and there will be tests... ditch it, walk away from it. Alcoholics avoid pubs for good reason.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

I'm trying to stay off FB for me.  I'm so sick of the drama.  Plus this is my very busy season at work so it's not a struggle to not pick up my phone.  I'm doing it for me, not for anyone else.  Tomorrow will be a sad day, as my daughter and the babies leave to go to her hubby for the next 10 days, but then they will be driving back.  I'm sure I'll be served with divorce papers any day.  Thinking today or tomorrow because W was asking daughter if I had tomorrow off.  (Typical BPD trying to cause more hurt because she knows I will be hurting so if she has me served today she thinks I will be upset and cry my last night with the kids or wait until tomorrow with everyone leaving and I'm already hurting.)

Any how, I have another busy weekend with my youngest son, so plenty to keep me busy and my mind distracted.

I see T tomorrow night, I'm kinda dreading it, but it needs to happen.  I just don't know how to "move forward".  Like I'm very aware I will not want to get into another relationship for a very very long time.  I know I need to heal from this before I can ever let anyone else in (if ever).  My life is so complicated and I only have 1.5 years left until youngest son is off to college.  I do not want to bring anyone else into our lives.  But how do I heal?  How do I get past the 10 years of emotional abuse?  How do I move forward knowing she's spreading all the vicious lies about me and everyone is believing them and flocking to her "pity party".  It just hurts.  I know I know Ihave to just accept it.  I'm trying.

SH4

[Enabler]

Divorces are long old processes, they are not things that happen overnight. You have a bunch of choices about how you might handle this emotionally. You could spend each day expecting the letter to turn up and live the near future in abject terror of the event, or you can live each day as it comes, maybe even accepting that it might come.

If the letter comes, what does it mean to you?
How will you respond to it?
What things will you have to do as and when you receive the news?

I would cast aside the things that aren't helpful for you, like suspicion about your W's motivations for asking about whether or not you have tomorrow off. You know her better than me but there could be any number of reasons she might be checking and many of them not malicious. You could end up tying yourself in knots over somebody else's thoughts where you're lacking a lot of the sub-text.

Remember back in Sept when she was going to move out, remember before that how bad you expected it to be, remember what the experience was, I don't think it was as bad as you expected it to be.

There is a lot of heat in your social network at the moment, that heat will dissipate in time, and you will come through the other side as long as you don't fuel the fires. Focus on the people who have shown they are there for you for now. Leave the others to enjoy the drama.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I have focused on avoiding my very worst untenable outcomes. I suspect losing regular contact with your children is not one of those for you.

The next relationship is not something you need to be considering now, keep your focus as short as possible.

Enabler

[I Am Redeemed]

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