Handling the "calm" times

[matthew37]

Just curious if others can share - how do you handle the "in between episode" times. While it's sad to take a negative-first perspective, it's sort of how I think about things these days. We're either in the 2-4 day ragers, or we're "normal".

My challenge/problem - I can no longer see "normal" as actual normal. I am so strung out on how literally anything and everything I've said in the past can get brought up as a form of attack, that I've given up on all "regular" engagements. I don't like to talk about work (I'm the sole breadwinner) because when she has an episode it gets thrown in my face. Same for interests/hobbies (the few I still have -though I'm putting a lot of energy in this now), etc. There's not a single topic I consider "safe" anymore other than the most mundane, like.. weather.

I guess for me I just can't take any more vicious attacks on me + my interests that I'd rather have no engagement than something that I'll eventually regret. Which leaves us with basically nothing to talk about. Which, of course, becomes the next thing she'll rage on - but I'd rather her just yell about how I don't tell her anything than yell at me for having interests that aren't 100% her.

Just curious if others have similar/different approaches?

[alleyesonme]

Just curious if others can share - how do you handle the "in between episode" times. While it's sad to take a negative-first perspective, it's sort of how I think about things these days. We're either in the 2-4 day ragers, or we're "normal".

My challenge/problem - I can no longer see "normal" as actual normal. I am so strung out on how literally anything and everything I've said in the past can get brought up as a form of attack, that I've given up on all "regular" engagements. I don't like to talk about work (I'm the sole breadwinner) because when she has an episode it gets thrown in my face. Same for interests/hobbies (the few I still have -though I'm putting a lot of energy in this now), etc. There's not a single topic I consider "safe" anymore other than the most mundane, like.. weather.

I guess for me I just can't take any more vicious attacks on me + my interests that I'd rather have no engagement than something that I'll eventually regret. Which leaves us with basically nothing to talk about. Which, of course, becomes the next thing she'll rage on - but I'd rather her just yell about how I don't tell her anything than yell at me for having interests that aren't 100% her.

Just curious if others have similar/different approaches?

I completely identify with this as well, and I'm sure a lot of other posters here also do. It's beyond exhausting emotionally to have a BP partner, and just like you, I got to the point where it was just "easier" to interact as little as possible.

I'm assuming the answer to this is yes, and that it didn't do any good, but have you tried explaining how and why you feel this way? And has she expressed any desire or willingness to change?

Forgive me if I missed this in another thread, but can you provide some additional info, such as if you two are married, how long you've been together, and if you have any kids? Knowing that info may help me and others when it comes to passing along some tips.

[matthew37]

Thx @alleyesonme - here's my first post describing my basic environment: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=348297.msg13135987#msg13135987

re

I'm assuming the answer to this is yes, and that it didn't do any good, but have you tried explaining how and why you feel this way? And has she expressed any desire or willingness to change?

Somewhat? It's not really feasible, as she's pretty blinded to her situation (and somehow lives in a world where I'm the mean one, in a bad mood, criticizing her, etc).

The closest we've come is, after our therapist tasked her to give me 10 minutes of talking time, no arguing/debating, etc. This was actually last week, and, per the same therapist's advice, I spent the time talking about how I basically live in fear of violence and rage (but without specifically "blaming" her as the one causing it).

She was able to hear me through it, and it's been ~5d with no "repercussions" - but I don't think she can actually hear or see it. It's been about 45 days of non-engagement (almost literally), during which she's had two episodes, zero apologies. She's *never* said something like "hey, you've gotten really quiet recently, lets talk" or any version similar. She *did* sign us up for this online 30-day "repair your relationship" daily email + task, which I'm playing ball with, but despite my optimistic nature, don't see much value in...

Thanks for the reply!

[alleyesonme]

Thx @alleyesonme - here's my first post describing my basic environment: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=348297.msg13135987#msg13135987

re
Somewhat? It's not really feasible, as she's pretty blinded to her situation (and somehow lives in a world where I'm the mean one, in a bad mood, criticizing her, etc).

The closest we've come is, after our therapist tasked her to give me 10 minutes of talking time, no arguing/debating, etc. This was actually last week, and, per the same therapist's advice, I spent the time talking about how I basically live in fear of violence and rage (but without specifically "blaming" her as the one causing it).

She was able to hear me through it, and it's been ~5d with no "repercussions" - but I don't think she can actually hear or see it. It's been about 45 days of non-engagement (almost literally), during which she's had two episodes, zero apologies. She's *never* said something like "hey, you've gotten really quiet recently, lets talk" or any version similar. She *did* sign us up for this online 30-day "repair your relationship" daily email + task, which I'm playing ball with, but despite my optimistic nature, don't see much value in...

Thanks for the reply!

I remember now - thanks for jogging my memory.

Yes, I identify with all of this. My stbEX could have thrown stuff at me, hit me several times, and cussed me out to start a day. And then five minutes later, she'd ask me a question, and if she somehow detected anything in my voice indicating that I wasn't excited about talking to her, she'd start raging at ME because I had (in her eyes) been jerk all day long. You can't make this stuff up.

Our child is much younger than your three, so I'm curious about something. Have any of your kids ever said anything to you indicating that they either realize she has issues or that you two as a couple aren't in a great place?

[alleyesonme]

Thx @alleyesonme - here's my first post describing my basic environment: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=348297.msg13135987#msg13135987

re
Somewhat? It's not really feasible, as she's pretty blinded to her situation (and somehow lives in a world where I'm the mean one, in a bad mood, criticizing her, etc).

The closest we've come is, after our therapist tasked her to give me 10 minutes of talking time, no arguing/debating, etc. This was actually last week, and, per the same therapist's advice, I spent the time talking about how I basically live in fear of violence and rage (but without specifically "blaming" her as the one causing it).

She was able to hear me through it, and it's been ~5d with no "repercussions" - but I don't think she can actually hear or see it. It's been about 45 days of non-engagement (almost literally), during which she's had two episodes, zero apologies. She's *never* said something like "hey, you've gotten really quiet recently, lets talk" or any version similar. She *did* sign us up for this online 30-day "repair your relationship" daily email + task, which I'm playing ball with, but despite my optimistic nature, don't see much value in...

Thanks for the reply!

Another similarity is that my stbEX would frequently read articles about how to repair your relationship and then send them to me. While those tips are helpful for normal couples, they don't go anywhere near deep enough to fix a marriage with a BP. I definitely understand where you're coming from when you say you don't see much value in them. What she needs is to literally become a different person, and that's something she needs to be willing to work hard at and it'll take a long time. IMO, anything short of that is a waste of time.

[matthew37]

Our child is much younger than your three, so I'm curious about something. Have any of your kids ever said anything to you indicating that they either realize she has issues or that you two as a couple aren't in a great place?

My oldest definitely knows something's up. I think it's hardest for him, as he's closer with her about emotional issues / personal topics. But the past few episodes he's seeing it a little more closely. Which makes my job particularly draining in that I don't like talking badly about her (though I'm quite confident she'd never return that favor), so I'm careful with language about getting in/out of bad moods, sometimes slipping out of control, etc. But he's clued in to it at some level.

The others not as much, but the last two episodes I've started having them "prepped" to quickly head to their brother's room and just effectively hunker down & try to not watch her while she's raging.

TBH the whole thing is such the perfect case of the "boiling frog" metaphor. When it first started happening I attributed it entirely to the SAHM challenges with infants. But if anything it just grew as the kids aged (and in turn became less of a challenge to manage). Then I didn't quite realize how far from "normal behavior" we'd strayed until the past couple of years. THEN I still didnt quite realize it was some kind of condition/illness until the past year. [long sigh]...

[livednlearned]

I guess for me I just can't take any more vicious attacks on me + my interests that I'd rather have no engagement than something that I'll eventually regret.

Have you seen this about the stages of relationship breakdown?

What stage would you say applies to your situation?

[matthew37]

Another similarity is that my stbEX would frequently read articles about how to repair your relationship and then send them to me. While those tips are helpful for normal couples, they don't go anywhere near deep enough to fix a marriage with a BP. I definitely understand where you're coming from when you say you don't see much value in them. What she needs is to literally become a different person, and that's something she needs to be willing to work hard at and it'll take a long time. IMO, anything short of that is a waste of time.

Yep, basically exactly what I told our couples therapist in our last 1:1 - if there's no sign of "OMG i have a problem that i really need to deal with" soon, I'm running out of options.

[matthew37]

Have you seen this about the stages of relationship breakdown?

What stage would you say applies to your situation?

Firmly Stage 3, bordering 4. I think we'd been in 2 for years and years, until I started to wake up to realize "Why am I living this way and putting up with this level of emotional stress and turmoil" - this past Summer. It's unbelievably sad for me, but all I see is continued descent at this point...

[alleyesonme]

Thank you for sharing. Like you said, it's very sad, stressful, and I'd also add maddening and infuriating to feel like you're "forced" to put up with it because you two have kids together.

One point from Stop Walking on Eggshells that stands out to me while reading your posts is that it may be possible for you to address your wife's behavior with your kids. It'd be a good idea to consult with a therapist before doing this, but I think you can tell them that [Insert inappropriate action here] is not ok without even saying her name. Something like, "It's ok to get really upset about something - that happens to everyone. But it's not ok to hit people, throw things at people, or verbally abuse them."

This subtly sends the message to them that you know that what she's doing is wrong, but you aren't directly criticizing her to them. It's a fine line to walk, and I'd be curious to hear how others have handled this dynamic.

[matthew37]

Good tip, thanks!
Off to another tense evening in my home

[livednlearned]

Firmly Stage 3, bordering 4.

That's a lot of pain to shoulder 

"calm" and "normal" is psychologically and physically painful when we're in those end stages.

One of the things I was coached to do by a T during the end up my marriage (when I was 90 percent certain it was over) was to handle the incoming rage in a way that, even though the outcome was not likely to change, helped me take back some ownership.

My ex would start to wind up and follow me around the house with who even cares anymore. I started to hold up my hand and repeat No or Stop (and mean it). It wouldn't necessarily end the rage but it did do something psychologically for me that I couldn't get from shutting down or stonewalling.

I imagine in a regular "bad" relationship you would be able to ask for the 20 min break (recommended by research) considered necessary to lower cortisol levels and re-engage. But in the BPD level "bad" relationship sometimes it takes more assertiveness and creating a smaller target like "No" or "Stop," especially if you're in those late stages.

I was also coached to switch off as much as I could when I was successful at getting a break. Meaning, if I took that break, do something that genuinely helped lower my stress level. Something that was psychologically healthy and soothing. Before that I would go for a walk with my dog but stay in a fit about what just happened. I had to learn to set that down and figure out how to settle myself.

If your spouse is violent, that's a different dynamic and safety has to be the priority.