Kids Left Home Alone

[Turkish]

My D7 told me a few days ago that mommy left them home alone for an hour last month. Yesterday, I asked S10 and he said, "yeah, she went to Trader Joe's for 50 minutes, maybe an hour, but we were ok. We played video games."

I'm a kid of the 70s and early 80s, and was a latchkey child. My mom worked nights, so even if she was home, she was asleep. I do remember her locking me out of the house for the day in 4th grade, no food, but I had the hose for water.

There are no set laws in California though the american pediatric association recommends 11 as the youngest age to be home alone, and that doesn't take into account younger siblings.

Their mom took her cell phone. They have no landline. I asked them if they knew their neighbours enough that if there were a problem, that they knew enough to go to a neighbor. They said that they knew one neighbor with kids.

I could ask her about this by text to try and document like I did a few years ago when she didn't have the kids in car seats. Yet there's likely nothing actionable here. What I wonder is why she left to shop given she is without them half the time. Maybe she was triggered and needed to cool down?

Both kids say she yells. A month ago, S10 told her and me on a speaker call from my home that she screams at him.  He is ASD1 and can be overly sensitive. She minimized it on the call.

Yesterday, I asked him about it and he said his mom screamed in his face but admitted that he was being disrespectful. I've observed this and it bothered me, no matter what I think of her. His attitude was very teen- like.  He's tried to pull that on me, but I don't put up with it. I asked him if he feels I scream or yell at him and he said no.  

Last fall, she called then S9 a "effing byatch." He told me,  I asked her and she admitted it yet minimized it.  

I'm not sure if there's anything I could or should do other than to give them more peace and grace in my home. I still think I will mention the home alone thing to her though.  

[kells76]

What I wonder is why she left to shop given she is without them half the time.

Couple of things here.

I'm seeing BPD-type lack of planning/executive function, for one, coupled with perhaps virus concerns?

She "should" plan better and do her grocery shopping -- if she needs to do it alone, because of virus concerns -- during the 50% of the time the kids are with you. But, she doesn't plan ahead. So, she "has to" get groceries when she's with the kids, but also "can't" bring them with her into the store (again, just a guess).

I'm suspecting that if it's brought up as "don't leave the kids alone, they're not old enough", she might come back with, "what did you want me to do, infect them"?

Maybe a different way to approach it would be (though you may have done this move before) offering for her to drop them off with you if she needs to shop alone. Can it be framed as "we are protecting the kids" if she does that?

IDK... just went through a lot of "I'm the good protective parent" posing from Mom about COVID-19, so that's at the forefront of my mind as I think about the "I didn't take the kids grocery shopping" scenario.

What's always crazy is how the "protective" steps the disordered parent takes INVARIABLY involve hurting the kids some other way (unsupervised for an hour, not seeing DH, etc).

...

Do you think virus fears might have been a factor?

[worriedStepmom]

It is inappropriate for a 10-year-old to supervise a 7-year-old with no ability to contact a parent or the authorities in case of an emergency.   Many states don't have an explicit law with a minimum age, because it does depend a lot on circumstances and the maturity of the child, but I think most judges would be unhappy about this.

I think you should ask your ex about it.  When she whines that she didn't have a choice, you can praise her for keeping them safe by not taking them into the store and then, as kells suggested, you provide her with options.  You can bring them to me for an hour.  You can leave them with a cell phone so they have a way to call.  (In our house, when S10 is home alone - with no younger siblings - our Alexa is hooked up to H's phone, so S10 can ask Alexa to call anyone who is in H's contacts, even when H isn't home.  S10 frequently used Alexa to call me or his grandmother just to say hi.)

Your ex is going to minimize every criticism against her.  That's just how she is.  Your job is to document all of the stuff, and the fact that she doesn't take it seriously, and your attempts to make reasonable suggestions, so that a judge would see the issues if you decide to take her back to court.

[livednlearned]

What about a generic conversation to discuss what age, how long, under what circumstances, what to do in case of emergency, etc. for when you both agree it's ok to leave the kids?

I left my son home alone when I went out to walk our dog when he was 10, 11, 12. Not far, and he could, if he wanted to, see me for most of the walk. At that age, I was doing run-throughs with him about what to do if he needed me right away, what to do in an emergency, what was an emergency, plus a few contingency plans, not only for my house but for things that might happen at his dad's.

S18 is also ASD and does well when there are straightforward plans for what to do.

My concern would be that your kids were deep into video games and not paying attention to what might be happening around them, if anything. S18 used to get pretty immersed in games at that age and his situational awareness was practically zero.

[Turkish]

I left the kids once to run to 7-11 around the block to get coffee. 10 minutes and I locked the door and set the alarm. I don't have a landline, but S10 knows to hit the fire or police buttons on the alarm panel if something happens. I know my neighbors well and they know the kids. Today, I rode my bike around the block (5 mins) while they were on Skype with their little cousin.

S10 overflowed the toilet today while I was home, almost 3 gallons of water went into the hall.  I was in the backyard.  He wasn't paying attention and told me that he forgot to tell me earlier that he clogged it.  I questioned him why he flushed again. Kids! The floor needed to be mopped anyway... thankfully it's tile. That wasn't life threatening, but a lesson on how things can go wrong quickly with kids that ahe. Kind of how I used to play with lighters and matches 

A conversation is a good idea. In 2 years when S10 goes to 6th grade at the junior high a few blocks from their school now, I hope that he's mature enough to pick up his sister and either bike or walk her home. I may have to turn off the water for the front bathroom if my son can't figure out how not to overflow the main bathrooms toilet! This is the second time he's done this since quarantine.  ASD1 is no excuse.

[Turkish]

It boiled down to we will agree to disagree. She thinks he's responsible enough and it's her way of teaching them responsibility. She tried to pull the "well you took them shooting!" Not equivalent. I didn't explain it, but it was on a thousand acre ranch with an old military training .22LR (so it was as heavy as an M1), resting bench and I literally hovered over S7.

Interestingly, she found out yesterday that S10 made a bunch of purchases on YouTube (stickers from some Youtuber site) on her credit card so then she said that she'd maybe not trust him as much with responsibility for a while. I got an angry call since they were with me yesterday. She texted me later to ask if she was too hard on him. I said no.  He shouldn't have done that. I'd be angry too.

[GaGrl]

Your son might be okay alone for short periods, but I would feel uncomfortable leaving them alone with his being responsible for the younger child.

[JNChell]

Maybe this is boiling down to co-parenting or parallel parenting. Turkish, you field a lot of crap from her that shouldn’t be your burden. I’m still fairly green as a single dad with a 5 year old son. Lately, I’ve been trying to look further ahead when it comes to him. One thing I’ve come to are platforms. His mother and I can try to co-parent and constantly bicker leaving him fluid ground when he’s trying to find his feet in the world. Or, he can understand that his parents are separate people with their own platforms and ways of thinking, and be allowed to understand that he has a choice to pick from each.

I will never agree with some of his mom’s parenting, and she will never agree with mine. Do we continually fight over it? I don’t think that S5 will benefit from that. I think he will benefit by being allowed to observe the platforms from which he came. There are risks involved, but the situation is what it is now. Being guided in a way to be able to freely make choices is something that I always wish that I was given as a kid. I’m very careful to not live through my Son. But, I try to be especially careful to not let history repeat with him. It’s my job. Just some thoughts.

[Turkish]

There's nothing i can do ex except hope for the best. I won't gain anything by further conversation. At least it's documented in text.

My home would actually be safer. I have an alarm system, an internal camera which covers the living room and looks down the hallway, and a ring video doorbell for the front door. Things would be documented and the kids could hit the alarm panel to summon EMS if needed. But as I've said, I've never left them for more than 10 minutes.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Turkish,

I did a search and came up with this checklist for determining if your child is ready to be left home alone. Even if you can't control what your ex does, it may help you with preparing your kids so they can be as safe as possible if they are left alone again.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cd/re/caqhomealone.asp

[Turkish]

That's helpful.

They'd be more likely to stay indoors at her place, a condo like apartment complex. I'm not sure that they'd stay indoors at my place. D8 loves to rollerblade up and down the block. The neighbors comment on it. And she goes into the backyard to play with the dog. They can feed themselves and don't use my gas stove. When S10 reaches 7th grade is when I'll personally feel comfortable with him at home, 13.

My concern is all of the criminals California has let out and the $0 bail for many crimes.  Cops hate it but the judiciary, legislative and executive branches have sold us out. 

[formflier]

7th grade is solid time.

Would you think 7th grade was good time or him to stay home alone or stay home and watch his younger sister?

We found that the relationship between siblings was just as important as the age of the oldest, because if the younger one isn't going to "listen"...then it really doesn't matter how old or responsible the oldest is.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

I had an only child. He was adamant by the Spring of his fifth grade year that he no longer wanted to go to his school's After School Program. I had learned by then that when he said he was ready for something, he was. I allowed him to start coming home on the bus at 3:30 pm when I would be home by 5:00 pm. He had rules and several neighbors available. The bus let him off at our driveway. We lived in a small neighborhood not easily accessible to a busy road. It worked for us. But at 11, I wouldn't have let him be responsible for a younger child.