BPDxh moving in with BPDgf / concerned for my 9 yr old son

[1hopefulhuman]

My BPD ex husband is moving in with (what appears to be) a BPD girlfriend and I am concerned about my 9 year old son's mental health safety; I have requested she meet me in person next week. I am looking for suggestions to rise above drama and be the rock and example of maturity for my son. What should I say? What is my goal?

Brief background:
- We've been divorced 3 years
- Ex husband has been on and off with this woman since November and as recently as this weekend
- The first time they broke up in January, he came to me and the neighbors crying and told me she was an alcoholic who was abusive to him. I told him a person like this should not be around our son and he agreed
- Two weeks later he secretly took her on a weekend trip with our son, against our join decision
- Two weeks later he told me they are back together, she's not an alcoholic and she only went to AA to make friends (?)
- They have been Covid isolating together and it seemed peaceful ...until this last weekend, where he cried to me again that they broke up - AND cried to our son about it to the point that our son told his teacher and zoom class that his dad is sad and crying because he broke up with gf
- Today when I approached him about my concern that his relationship was effecting our son, he got defensive, shouted "you don't control me" and then told me they are moving in together. It was at this point I requested I have a face to face with her.
- I've been told this woman is afraid, jealous of me (BPD ex probably has told her lies?) and she doesn't want my ex to have any relationship with me

Do I tell her why I am concerned for my son's safety? Or simply have tea and get to know her? Thank you for your time, heart and ears xo

[1hopefulhuman]

Update: Ive decided its best if I just quickly introduce myself at a child dropoff and stay away from their toxic relationship. I could still use the support if anyone had similar experience and/or wisdom. xo

[kells76]

Hi 1hh, nice to meet you!

Ugh, so tricky navigating meeting/working with the new partners of disordered people. My DH's xW (uBPD) quickly married his best friend (uNPD) and those early meetings "all together for the kids" were absolute hell.

Two weeks later he secretly took her on a weekend trip with our son, against our joint decision

You may already be doing this, but are you documenting (email or other written format) these incidents? That's not going to look good for him.

I've been told this woman is afraid, jealous of me (BPD ex probably has told her lies?) and she doesn't want my ex to have any relationship with me

Are you hearing this from your ex?

AND cried to our son about it to the point that our son told his teacher and zoom class that his dad is sad and crying because he broke up with gf

This could be a way for your son to get more support -- if a teacher observed this, then your son could get a recommendation from the teacher to meet up with the school counselor, or another counselor, perhaps? Your ex is going to do what he's going to do, and the radius for behavior is pretty big. That is, there seems to be a lot of leeway for parents to make poor decisions that aren't legally actionable. "Really poor relational choice and inappropriate emotional leaning on son" is sadly within that radius... but that doesn't mean you can't leverage those behaviors to get more professional eyes on your son.

Do I tell her why I am concerned for my son's safety?

Could go either way. Have you heard about the acronym JADE? It stands for "justify, argue, defend, explain", and it sums up four flavors of communication that don't resolve conflict, and rarely if ever result in your point getting truly heard. I know I've fallen into the trap before of "if I could just explain it more clearly, she'd finally get it!" But instead, JADE-ing usually results in walls and defenses going up, and important info not getting through. We can't convince PD people out of their PD's, no matter how clear we are or how important the issue is.

That being said, for "paper trail" reasons, you could consider a "one and done" statement, where you're not leaving doors open for discussion. You have your concerns documented in an email, and that's it, no more, door closed. I would not bank on that changing anything on their end, so if it were me and I chose that route, I'd be doing it for legal documentation and my own integrity, nothing else.

Ive decided its best if I just quickly introduce myself at a child dropoff and stay away from their toxic relationship.

That seems like a really wise conclusion. The less I interact with the kids' mom and stepdad, the better for my sanity. I'm "lucky" -- sort of -- in being the stepparent, so I'm a bit more removed, or at least can be if I need to be. The reality-twisting and pervasive conflict and toxicity are not things I can change in their lives, unfortunately.

Would love to keep hearing how this goes for you!

Cheers;

kells76

[GaGrl]

I agree that your decision is best at this time.

What is your current schedule? How often do you exchange? How much communication do you and your ex have now?

My husband's children were adults when we married, so I had no issues like this with his ex. Others on the board may chime in.

[worriedStepmom]

Rising above the drama means you don't try to interfere at all.  Your decision to just introduce yourself is fine.  My kids have a stepmom, and I am a stepmom (SD12's mom is uBPD).  I make small talk with my ex's wife occasionally, but parenting is between him and me.  I try to never ever talk to H's uBPDex.  Even small talk, she takes the wrong way, and I'm done with the drama.  Parenting is between H and ex, and I provide support.

Your son needs to be protected from dad's big emotions.  If dad is BPD, it's unlikely he'll be able to do that.  So it's a matter of you being a safe space to talk about it, and, maybe considering getting him a counselor so there's someone neutral to talk to.  If your ex simply cannot refrain from parentifying your son, then it may mean trying to get more custody for yourself.

Document as much as you can about what your h tells you about his gf.  if you think she is dangerous to be around your son, then you may have to take action.

[1hopefulhuman]

Hi 1hh, nice to meet you!

Ugh, so tricky navigating meeting/working with the new partners of disordered people. My DH's xW (uBPD) quickly married his best friend (uNPD) and those early meetings "all together for the kids" were absolute hell.

You may already be doing this, but are you documenting (email or other written format) these incidents? That's not going to look good for him.

Are you hearing this from your ex?

This could be a way for your son to get more support -- if a teacher observed this, then your son could get a recommendation from the teacher to meet up with the school counselor, or another counselor, perhaps? Your ex is going to do what he's going to do, and the radius for behavior is pretty big. That is, there seems to be a lot of leeway for parents to make poor decisions that aren't legally actionable. "Really poor relational choice and inappropriate emotional leaning on son" is sadly within that radius... but that doesn't mean you can't leverage those behaviors to get more professional eyes on your son.

Could go either way. Have you heard about the acronym JADE? It stands for "justify, argue, defend, explain", and it sums up four flavors of communication that don't resolve conflict, and rarely if ever result in your point getting truly heard. I know I've fallen into the trap before of "if I could just explain it more clearly, she'd finally get it!" But instead, JADE-ing usually results in walls and defenses going up, and important info not getting through. We can't convince PD people out of their PD's, no matter how clear we are or how important the issue is.

That being said, for "paper trail" reasons, you could consider a "one and done" statement, where you're not leaving doors open for discussion. You have your concerns documented in an email, and that's it, no more, door closed. I would not bank on that changing anything on their end, so if it were me and I chose that route, I'd be doing it for legal documentation and my own integrity, nothing else.

That seems like a really wise conclusion. The less I interact with the kids' mom and stepdad, the better for my sanity. I'm "lucky" -- sort of -- in being the stepparent, so I'm a bit more removed, or at least can be if I need to be. The reality-twisting and pervasive conflict and toxicity are not things I can change in their lives, unfortunately.

Would love to keep hearing how this goes for you!

Cheers;

kells76

Thank you for the support kells76,
- I'm hearing very clearly from you post and others I need to be documenting these events and I am not currently - so thank you I will definitely start. 
- Unfortunately, and its not at my highest integrity, some of their msgs to each other live on my son's iPad and her thoughts about me are written out. She does not want to be in a relationship where she has to interact with me and wants ex all to herself. has called me names... I've need met or interacted with this person.
- Professional eyes on son - YES thank you
- Unfamiliar with JADE but makes sense, especially people with PDs - I LOVE the paper trail suggestion stating how I feel (?) or my concerns.

I'm sorry you have been through this and I am happy your step child has more safe adults in their life. Thank you again for your suggestions, I'll update.

[1hopefulhuman]

I agree that your decision is best at this time.

What is your current schedule? How often do you exchange? How much communication do you and your ex have now?

My husband's children were adults when we married, so I had no issues like this with his ex. Others on the board may chime in.

- We currently exchange week to week, this may change in the fall to every 2 days due to our work schedules and our son's after school schedule...who know with cover.
- My ex and I used to have frequent communication as we were exchanging every two days (he lives 10 min away) but the new GF has expressed she wants him all to herself and now my communication is very limited and he behavior very awkwardly around me i.e. cannot look me in the eyes and its always in a rush at drop-off, its a guilty vibration he is emanating (what is that all about?)

Thank you GaGrl for you support xo

[1hopefulhuman]

Rising above the drama means you don't try to interfere at all.  Your decision to just introduce yourself is fine.  My kids have a stepmom, and I am a stepmom (SD12's mom is uBPD).  I make small talk with my ex's wife occasionally, but parenting is between him and me.  I try to never ever talk to H's uBPDex.  Even small talk, she takes the wrong way, and I'm done with the drama.  Parenting is between H and ex, and I provide support.

Your son needs to be protected from dad's big emotions.  If dad is BPD, it's unlikely he'll be able to do that.  So it's a matter of you being a safe space to talk about it, and, maybe considering getting him a counselor so there's someone neutral to talk to.  If your ex simply cannot refrain from parentifying your son, then it may mean trying to get more custody for yourself.

Document as much as you can about what your h tells you about his gf.  if you think she is dangerous to be around your son, then you may have to take action.

Thank you worried Stepmom, you sound like a really cool respectful mom/stepmom. 

The BPD gf is 30 and does not have any children but wants them. She appears to be using my son to prove to my ex she is worthy to have children with and is trying to take on mom role - which feels inappropriate to say the least...helping with homework, disciplining him, she met my son in March. I've expressed to ex WE are the parents. I would feel differently if they have been together a year or more and she was an emotionally healthy person.

Yes, I thought about solutions for the ex "parentifying" our son, and considered simply telling ex "I will take him during the times you feel emotionally unstable. We were never married just together 8 (painful) years.

Thank you for the documentation suggestion, I'm hearing this a lot in this thread.

[1hopefulhuman]

I'm not sure 'm using the software to responded correctly (sorry) LMK

[Turkish]

Get a paper journal and back document (and sign or initial) to the best of your memories. That's admissible if it comes to that.   Don't write that you did it after the fact, of course.   

[worriedStepmom]

is trying to take on mom role - which feels inappropriate to say the least...helping with homework, disciplining him, she met my son in March. I've expressed to ex WE are the parents. I would feel differently if they have been together a year or more and she was an emotionally healthy person.

Yes, I thought about solutions for the ex "parentifying" our son, and considered simply telling ex "I will take him during the times you feel emotionally unstable. We were never married just together 8 (painful) years.

I wouldn't have a problem with someone else helping my kids with their homework.  If your ex and his gf live together, it's also okay (IMO), for her to help enforce the house rules.  (I wouldn't approve of her using physical punishment at all, though.)    Even when my kids' friends are here, I have no problem correcting them if they break the house rules, and using some small punishment.

Does your ex even recognize when he feels emotionally unstable?

Also, it is BAD if there are adult messages on your son's tablet.  Courts want parents to protect kids from this kind of stuff.   You need to take screenshots of those and then figure out how to delete them.

[1hopefulhuman]

I wouldn't have a problem with someone else helping my kids with their homework.  If your ex and his gf live together, it's also okay (IMO), for her to help enforce the house rules.  (I wouldn't approve of her using physical punishment at all, though.)    Even when my kids' friends are here, I have no problem correcting them if they break the house rules, and using some small punishment.

Does your ex even recognize when he feels emotionally unstable?

Also, it is BAD if there are adult messages on your son's tablet.  Courts want parents to protect kids from this kind of stuff.   You need to take screenshots of those and then figure out how to delete them.

Thank you worriedStepmom,
I understand your point of view and if the ex and GF had been happily together for a year and decided to move in, I wouldn't have an issue. However she has little experience with children, was hesitant to get involved because he had a child, and 2 months after meeting my son she is assuming parental privileges. I think GF/BFs should be adult friends with partners kids until they get married etc. Ex has no boundaries with her, meaning if she gets upset with my son he immediately defends her and punishes son (so I've heard from son).

Ex realizes when he feels emotionally unstable, but he does not comprehend how deep the extent. He does not understand that crying for 2 days straight to your son is unsafe.

The adult messages on the tablet are on FB and my son does not know about FB. But I have thought about taking screen grabs.

[1hopefulhuman]

Get a paper journal and back document (and sign or initial) to the best of your memories. That's admissible if it comes to that.   Don't write that you did it after the fact, of course.   

Roger that 

[livednlearned]

Kids can handle a lot and the advice about documenting is great. We do seem to end up in court a lot, those of us who have ex's with BPD traits 

Ex has no boundaries with her, meaning if she gets upset with my son he immediately defends her and punishes son (so I've heard from son).

How do you respond when he tells you this stuff?

Maybe we can walk with you and find ways to relieve some of the emotional pressures your son is dealing with. Chances are, he's going to need some black belt level relationship and communication skills to figure out how to deal with dad long-term. Many of us find the skills are not intuitive and must be learned.

The adult messages on the tablet are on FB and my son does not know about FB. But I have thought about taking screen grabs.

My step daughter (23 and BPD traits) communicated some really painful and awful things via FB and I came across those messages. I felt guilty for reading (and then seeking them out) and turned myself into my T who brushed it off. Her response was essentially, "of course you read them. next."

It taught me to gird my loins and be careful when it came to SD23. Those messages both tipped me off and confirmed to me that I was not dealing with something straightforward so I doubled down and learned some essential skills. Without knowing what I do about her, I think she would've destroyed my marriage.

[1hopefulhuman]

Thanks LivedandLearned,

When my son tells me these things, I tell him I appreciate him telling me and that he can always tell his dad how he feels too. I remind him he can always choose to keep his space from her if he wants.

Blackbelt communication - yes! 
I have a few books on dealing with BPD but since his dad's emotions are continually changing on the spectrum its easy to fall out of practice if that makes sense. We could go a month or two without any odd behavior then BAM - I had some parents call me just yesterday because my BPDxh had confronted them about something their child did (that triggered him) and they were confused by his words and actions.  Teaching my son communication skills would be great.

I'm sorry you had to read your step daughters hurtful words.
I think this is what concerns me the most, that my BPDxh is now trying to rewrite a nicer picture of her to me instead of the the raging abusive alcoholic her first described her as back in Jan - - and because I read their FB text  I know the emotionally maturity truth of their relationship and feelings towards me, its extremely toxic, codependent, sick (sorry to sound judgmental). And to imagine my son living in a toxic environment of these two people kills me.

BTW we were never married but engaged 8 years

[livednlearned]

For me one of the most basic tenets of black belt communication was learning to validate, which is essentially generous listening. A tremendous amount of good stuff happens when a child feels safe having the feelings he or she has, without judgment or being told to change those feelings. We do it without realizing it, a lot of us.

The other part, that I personally struggled with, was looking at my son's father as a person first and father second. If he is not acting in the best interests of his child, then he relinquishes the healthy version of his role as dad.

My son's father was cruel to him and that needed to be validated.

Your son will meet people like his dad all throughout his life and unfortunately, how he deals with those people will come down to how he is taught to handle his dad.

[1hopefulhuman]

Your son will meet people like his dad all throughout his life and unfortunately, how he deals with those people will come down to how he is taught to handle his dad.

Thank you so much, you see seem like a seasoned pro. Its so helpful to learn these communication skills