Staying connected to daughter

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

In the middle of divorce. Which is everything imagined. 

My middle child D13 has essentially cut me out of her life.  I might get an occasional reply to a text or such. But very infrequent.

She does not participate in the coparenting plan (my oldest and youngest do however)

What ideas and advice is there here, on how I can stay connected and engaged?

I send occasional texts.  Do parent teacher and Stay up with school Activities separately (she wil not participate if I am there). I write a letter/email each week.  Reference past good times together and send something she is interested in (YouTube link etc)

Any favorites or other creative ideas?

My mantra is Persistence.  Communication. Love.   

[yeeter]

In the middle of divorce. Which is everything imagined. 

My middle child D13 has essentially cut me out of her life.  I might get an occasional reply to a text or such. But very infrequent.

She does not participate in the coparenting plan (my oldest and youngest do however)

What ideas and advice is there here, on how I can stay connected and engaged?

I send occasional texts.  Do parent teacher and Stay up with school Activities separately (she wil not participate if I am there). I write a letter/email each week.  Reference past good times together and send something she is interested in (YouTube link etc)

Any favorites or other creative ideas?

My mantra is Persistence.  Communication. Love.   

[ForeverDad]

Thinking long term in case there is no near term fix...
Likely your daughter is being inundated with so many false and exaggerated claims...  Dad is so bad that he doesn't care about you, blames you, doesn't really want time with you, rejected and abandoned his wife and kids, etc.

Even if she doesn't respond now in her teen years, once she is grown and an adult she may still harbor those distorted concepts of you.  Some day she may ponder the past or you and your siblings may find a chink in her perceptions and memories.  If so, will you have kept copies of your emails, letters, cards, gifts, etc to help her understand, even belatedly, that you weren't the bad person you were painted to be?  You do know her mother has been painting you bad for years.  For all you know, maybe her mother has been intercepting some of your communications or letters.

[empathic]

Hello yeeter,
I have a D14 that now lives with her mother all the time. We had 50/50 until little more than a year ago, then D decided she didn't like switching houses and wanted to live closer to her friends. She used to have a best friend who lived close to me, but that ended unfortunately. I'm not sure how much my ex is behind all this, as she can manipulate people in very subtle ways.

I think that age is very difficult when it comes to finding father/daughter activities, as a lot of things revolve around makeup, boys, and hanging out with friends.

We did a guitar course together when she was younger. I've driven her (often together with a friend) to shopping centres. Hard now with Corona and not really quality time - but I'll take anything these days.

There are some specific things in school she has needed help with, like maths and programming. I offered to set off a specific evening in the week where I helped her with this at my place (to which ex agreed and thought it was a good idea even). Sometimes it has fallen short because she wants to spend time with some friends instead.

It's not easy, I feel for you with this. There is the delicate balance of trying to be there for them while still allowing them to spend time with friends - it is with sadness that I am not pushing for her to spend even more time with me. I do try to text her as much as I can about different things she might like, but sometimes it takes days to get an answer.

Does she have any specific interests you could take part in or share with her?

Maybe controversial idea - get a pet (dog, cat...). My ex did this and it tied the kids a lot closer to her home. Despite not wanting to get one when we were together - because she'd "be the one taking care of it all the time" (being home).

[alleyesonme]

In the middle of divorce. Which is everything imagined. 

My middle child D13 has essentially cut me out of her life.  I might get an occasional reply to a text or such. But very infrequent.

She does not participate in the coparenting plan (my oldest and youngest do however)

What ideas and advice is there here, on how I can stay connected and engaged?

I send occasional texts.  Do parent teacher and Stay up with school Activities separately (she wil not participate if I am there). I write a letter/email each week.  Reference past good times together and send something she is interested in (YouTube link etc)

Any favorites or other creative ideas?

My mantra is Persistence.  Communication. Love.   

That's awful - I'm so sorry to hear that's happening.

I like the ideas listed above.

You mentioned that she's your middle child, and based on your post, it sounds like you're on great terms with your other kids. Have they talked to her about it? If not, would they be willing to? Or maybe another relative that's she trusts?

Another idea is if you're close to any of her friends' parents, maybe they could talk to her and/or have their daughter talk to her on your behalf. Anything that may bring her back to the reality that you're the stable one and want very much to be there for her however you can.

[yeeter]

Thanks for some nice ideas all eyes. 

My son (now 16) has been a huge support to youngest.  But he said my middle one ‘has changed’. He could not give specific description in what way, just that she is ‘really different now’.

The parent angle is a great one and working again with oldest and youngest but I don’t have those connections with middle. One reason is that wife had latched into middle child as her favorite and controlled everything about her activities.  I had never been able to develop the relationship with other parents in the same way

I was able to get some communications with her counselor.  So hoping that helps. And I am pushing for family counseling with the courts (and reconciliation counseling with her if I can get it, wife opposes)

Recently there has been some false allegations started.  For sure all three are hearing various things about how terrible their father is as a person.

More time with other people would help set positive examples. But those things are all shut down.  10x harder with the current pandemic

I make her some chili from time to time, her favorite food and she must eat it because the containers come back empty. And send the emails.  Occasional text about something she might be interested in. Just keep pushing stuff even if one direction.

[kells76]

Hey yeeter,

I feel for you. It's really painful when a beloved child shuts down. The dad/daughter connection is so important, too.

wife had latched into middle child as her favorite and controlled everything about her activities.

DH's xW and her husband (stepdad) made SD14 (oldest) the golden child. She was "wise beyond her years, insightful, amazing, advanced, just like Mom" etc. Lots of flattery and "specialness" and connection. They elevated her above DH to a position for her to judge his parenting (dysfunctional inverted triangle, I think). That was from ages 6 to 10-ish.

Long story short, it is possible to regain a connection with kids who have been put in that position. SD14 loves spending time with DH now. It took a couple years of counseling (which, interestingly, SD14 says "didn't work") plus DH really rolling with a lot of the anger and emotion coming from SD14, and not taking it personally.

There is still a lot of painful stuff coming from SD14 to DH, but she's not outright refusing to spend time with him like she used to, or being defiant, isolating, or rejecting. Really wants warm, close times. So, it's hard now, yet not impossible for things to change.

I was able to get some communications with her counselor.  So hoping that helps. And I am pushing for family counseling with the courts (and reconciliation counseling with her if I can get it, wife opposes)

Really good idea. Be consistently relentless at making this happen.

...

Recently there has been some false allegations started.  For sure all three are hearing various things about how terrible their father is as a person.

Have you already looked at Dr. Craig Childress' work on dysfunctional family systems? He has incredibly helpful, non-intuitive, defusing techniques for times when the kids spout at you "everyone knows you're selfish" type stuff. He subtitles this article "strategies to disarm false reality": https://drcachildress.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Ju-jitsu-Parenting-Fighting-Back-from-the-Down-Position-Childress-2013.pdf

It helps preserve the relationship, and take the teeth out of the false statements, without going down the unhelpful rabbit trail of defending yourself. Basically, when the kids come to you with something like "Mom says you never did what she wanted when you guys were married", what's going on is: Mom wants to engage you in a drama triangle, and she is using the kids to rope you in. The kids want to know what's true, but just telling them straight up "That's not true, I always made sure we went where Mom wanted to go on vacation" is actually playing the role that Mom wants you to play, and is playing it out in front of the kids.

You see, what the kids want to know isn't the content (did you or didn't you go on vacation where Mom wanted). What they want to know is the structure of how the family is organized: Is Mom really a victim? Are you really a bad guy/persecutor?

When we get blinders on and focus on the veracity of the content, we play into the drama triangle, which unfortunately answers the kids' question in the way Mom wants: See, Dad just argues with Mom and says she's a liar. Now we know Mom was the victim and Dad was selfish and mean.

We have to sidestep the triangle entirely, by bypassing the bait (the content), in order to not play into the structure.

It has taken me a LONG time to start seeing these triangles. One insight I had recently is that any time I find myself wanting to explain myself or DH to the kids, or explain "that's not what happened", there is probably a triangle involved, and the minute I engage with the content of the triangle, I've already lost. Mom and Stepdad are pros at trying to force DH and I to play in the roles they want to cast us in (DH is selfish and self centered and an abandoning abuser, kells76 is an irrelevant adult child who is not important to the family). The key is to jiu-jitsu out of the triangle by not meeting force with force, but typically with another question. LnL has helped me a lot with these key phrases:

"Huh, I wonder why Mom [or whoever, or "someone"] would say that"
"Seems kind of awkward for someone to say what kind of person I am"
"Heh [with a low key smile]... well, I know what I've always thought and felt, and that's good enough for me"
"What do you think about that?"
"What was it like for you to hear that?"

...

Well, THAT was a lot that just came out.

I make her some chili from time to time, her favorite food and she must eat it because the containers come back empty. And send the emails.  Occasional text about something she might be interested in. Just keep pushing stuff even if one direction.

Yeah, I think that's the right move. It's so important for kids to know that they don't have to act/be a certain way to be able to count on your love and attention. She doesn't have to "be loving back to you" or respond at all in order to know she can always count on your care. This is a big deal. Don't ever let your actions be dependent on how she engages with you. So critical, and you're doing the right thing here.

Keep on for the long haul... it can get better.

kells76

[yeeter]

Have you already looked at Dr. Craig Childress' work on dysfunctional family systems? He has incredibly helpful, non-intuitive, defusing techniques for times when the kids spout at you "everyone knows you're selfish" type stuff. He subtitles this article "strategies to disarm false reality": https://drcachildress.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Ju-jitsu-Parenting-Fighting-Back-from-the-Down-Position-Childress-2013.pdf


Keep on for the long haul... it can get better.

kells76

I have read that article and it is excellent.  Thanks for highlighting, I will read it again just to keep the techniques top of mind.

And thank you for your kind words of encouragement.  My mantra:

Persistence.  Communication.  Love.

 

[kells76]

Persistence.  Communication.  Love.

That's a great mantra, and one for DH and I to remember, as well. The covert conflict from the kids' mom and stepdad is relentless, and it's still easy to get overwhelmed by what seems like insurmountable barriers and hurdles -- even when things are so much better. Thanks for sharing your perspective and encouraging the group.