Let's talk about who has the power in the relationship

[Cat Familiar]

Power is often seen as a dirty word when discussing it in terms of who holds it in the relationship. "No one holds it--we're on equal footing," is likely what most would say when asked, but is that really true?

When I got together with my first husband, I held the power because I wasn't as interested in being in a relationship as he was. He was very amenable at first, so thoughtful of me and aware of what would make me happy. That didn't last long, and the power began to shift as soon as I felt committed to the relationship. It wasn't long before the kind behavior gave way to mild verbally abusive behavior, which continued to become even more abusive.

After some years, I no longer was the independent, self-assured woman that I was prior to getting involved with him. I was constantly afraid of what he would do: begin another affair, do something financially irresponsible, become physically violent.

Then, after one of the above occurred, it became a regular cycle that the Honeymoon Phase would briefly return, along with a smidgen of my power, because he was afraid that I would have finally had enough and would want to end the relationship, which I ultimately did, but many years later.

In looking back on that long ago history, I believe there were some issues in play that I wasn't aware of at the time. It seems possible that a pwBPD might feel somewhat insecure if they were to realize that they had the power in the relationship. If they already have an unstable self-image and the person they're most connected to seems weak, wouldn't it be likely that would add to their sense of insecurity?

On the other hand, if they also have an NPD component, they might feel more comfortable knowing that they have the power. In my ex-husband's case, I think he was really insulted that it took me a long time to want to commit to the relationship and perhaps some of the abusive behavior at the beginning might have stemmed from that.

***

In my current marriage, my husband has a deep sense of egalitarianism. Even so, I have noticed subtle underpinnings of a power competition at times. Because I've never surrendered my power in this relationship, nor have I attempted a power grab, we've both navigated this issue well.

Let's talk about power issues in your relationship.

[Football2000]

I think people with very intense emotional reactions, such as many people with BPD, don't realize they have a lot of power. The feeling of "walking on eggshells" is like anxiety. The person who creates that atmosphere with intense emotional reactions will thus have the power. Personally experiencing this, I know that I will just do anything to make that feeling go away, which includes any kind of capitulation to the person.

I believe you are right about a person with BPD realizing they have a lot of power, in that it might make them horrified in some way. My partner kept telling me I had all the "power", whereas I was constantly at the mercy of her emotional reactions...I was actually scared of her. I don't deny that I had some power though.

I think a relationship can't be devoid of two people having different levels of power. But I think there can be a healthy balance where the main feeling is one of cooperation, in which two people work to making each of their needs compatible with the needs of the other. In that case, even though there might be some differences, they can usually be worked out amicably through cooperation and teamwork, rather than competition and fighting.

[Waddams]

I'm remarried for 2 years and this subject was discussed earlier on. WaddamsWife (Wwife for short) specifically told me she wanted a man that would lead. She just wanted a man she trusted she could let lead. So I lead, but I don't try to control. I think that's the key - a partnership still needs leadership, but good leadership inspires the other partner to follow because of trust. Following shouldn't happen because of control.

The exertion of power over someone in order to make them do something is not something that should happen in a relationship. If you want your partner to do something, lead them to doing it by building their trust and faith in you and in what you are wanting them to do.

I think replacing power in a relationship with leading in a relationship is an important distinction that not enough people understand the nuances of.

[Cat Familiar]

Football2000, you bring up a very important point, that people with intense emotional reactions can suck out all the oxygen out of the room and cause others to do anything to try to soothe that person so they stop causing havoc.

Cooperation seems to be key in healthy relationships and having awareness of the other’s wants and needs.

Just as in ballroom dancing, one partner leads and the other follows, and that seems to be a workable dynamic in your relationship, Waddams. However, I don’t necessarily think that is a concept that occurs in all marital partnerships. Perhaps some choose certain contexts to be the leader while the other has different areas where they lead. Or with other couples, they might compartmentalize their activities so that no one is a leader, nor a follower.

Ideally people who end up in a relationship together must come up with an overarching strategy for decision making, and hopefully they can find one that is agreeable to both parties.

[I Am Redeemed]

This is an interesting topic.

I think that looking at just behaviors might lead us to think that the people who act out in certain ways may consciously know they have and are exerting their power in the relationship, and that the power dynamic is largely tipped in their favor. But, looking more closely, I think that the motives behind the behaviors may reveal that some would not consider that they have the upper hand regarding power in the relationship.

Power is usually associated with dominance. If one partner is dominating the relationship, that partner is perceived as having the most power. However, I think that the perception of a BPD partner could be that they have no power at all (unstable sense of self) and that their SO has the power (which may be where the feelings of "I hate you, don't leave me" originate- resentment that they are so dependent on the other person emotionally). Some of the acting out behaviors may be due to the perception that they are "one down" in the relationship and are struggling to get needs met. The non may perceive these acting out behaviors as manipulative and controlling and feel that they have no choice in the relationship but to appease the acting out partner- hence the feeling that the BPD has the power.

NPD is different, you're right, Cat. I think people with NPD tendencies do have the goal of possessing the most power. In fact, one of the traits of NPD is being preoccupied with power and/or success. This also comes from a place of insecurity and unstable sense of self, but the motivation is different.

It's interesting that some partners with a PD respond well when the non begins to learn how to be the emotional leader in the relationship. Leadership can mean having power, but the best leaders understand that power doesn't benefit the relationship when it is misused. And I think that in a healthy relationship, both partners are leaders in their own ways. Even a typically passive person may be a quiet and influential leader in their own right, even if it's just leading by example.

[Cat Familiar]

I think you’re onto something, Redeemed, about pwBPD feeling like they’re “one down” and just trying to even up the score. And to the non, this behavior looks purposefully manipulative.

On a different note, sometimes being too agreeable is a losing strategy with a BPD partner.

I’ve had to learn to be more of what I previously would have called “arrogant” in order to lessen conflict in my relationship with my husband with BPD traits. (It’s so much easier to live with someone with traits, rather than with someone who has full blown personality disorders.)

Even so, some of what I previously thought were useful, cooperative behaviors have backfired. Lots of times I really don’t care if we do A or B and I have no strong opinion. Therefore I’d prefer that someone who does have a definite opinion make the choice.

This has sparked lots of irritation with my husband because he’d often prefer that I decide. The irony for me is that many of these inconsequential decisions are an eeeny-miney-moe type of choice for me. But I’ve learned that having a strong opinion is preferable to being accommodating to his choice.

[HappyKJ]

Yes, it's an interesting concept for sure. I think in many way, he does have more power because, as Football 2000 pointed out, I am often caving in to his desires or not speaking out about certain things so as to keep the peace and avoid an emotional outburst. I also recognize that I have some codependency issues and people-pleaser tendencies, whereas he is a my-way-or-the-highway type of person.

In other ways, I hold power in the sense that I am the more financially and emotionally stable of the two of us. This is never something I would weld over him, but I believe he feels threatened by this and this insecurity is somewhat to blame for the outbursts, lashing out, and controlling behavior, which is perhaps his way of trying to "level the field."

That said, I think we are reaching a healthier dynamic. He has cut way back on drinking, which has improved things immensely, and he is much calmer and easier to talk to now. He has also found something he is passionate about that allows him to contribute more financially, which gives him a sense of pride and I believe is also limiting the outbursts. He is still a strong man who leads -- which I do not mind, I'm attracted to that -- but he is much more reasonable and easier to talk to.

[Cat Familiar]

I, too, was a people pleaser. It was a difficult habit to change. But what I eventually realized was that all my soothing and placating behavior was having the opposite result than what I intended.

I think it's human nature to want to avoid an ugly emotional outburst from our partner and to try and do whatever we can to keep that from happening. The problem is that we don't always reevaluate our strategies and we keep doing things that are ineffectual.

Sometimes doing something that seems counterintuitive is much more productive that repeating the tried and true, but which has had inconsistent results.

Have you ever been able to stop a dysregulation through caving and accommodating?

[Ozzie101]

All this is so familiar to me.

My H is one who sucks up all the air in the room. And I’m well acquainted with the habit of appeasement to avoid an outburst. Yet, he seems to want me to be in charge and make decisions for him.

It’s also been pointed out to me here that some of my caving and accommodating may have had a negative effect — making him see me as weak. I’m less “bendable” now but haven’t noticed a huge difference just yet.

If you were to ask my H, he’s probably say I have the power. In a way, I do. He’s terrified I’ll leave. While I know that while I’d like to stay married and work toward a healthy relationship, I also know I’d be fine and could be happy again.

So I guess we both have power — of different types. But the shared power dynamic and the way it plays out isn’t necessarily healthy.

[Cat Familiar]

My H is one who sucks up all the air in the room. And I’m well acquainted with the habit of appeasement to avoid an outburst. Yet, he seems to want me to be in charge and make decisions for him.

Do you think he defers the decisions to you so that he's not to blame if things don't work out the way he thinks they should?

[Ozzie101]

Definitely. He’s very big on blame. Then when I won’t make a decision for him or tell him what to do, he accuses me of being afraid of being blamed. That’s not it. I won’t decide because it’s something he has to decide for himself.

It seems like projection to me. When he’s upset, he’ll accuse me and everybody else for obsessing about blame when, really, he’s the only one demonstrably doing it.

[HappyKJ]

I've experienced this as well. Although my uBPD boyfriend is overall very controlling and has no problem trying to make decisions for me, down to how I interact with my friends and family, when it comes to inconsequential things like what to have for dinner, he insists that I choose and then shames me for making the "wrong choice" or worse, doesn't say anything but then lashes out at me later in resentment after it is too late to do anything about the decision.

[Ozzie101]

Yes. My H will be very vocal about what I or other people should do and gets frustrated/annoyed/angry when we do something different. He’s often ok with smaller decisions. But big things, he desperately wants others to tell him what to do.

[Goosey]

I think the bpd has the power. I spent years trying to calm her outrageous behavior. Tens of thousands of dollars frantically picking up the pieces in her trail of destruction. And she was always ten steps ahead smashing through the world.
   I remember once she was in the emergency room for yet another drama filled nothing illness and it was demanded I show up even though she left me months before.  I left my job site and went there. She was playing up some stomach pain till her girlfriend arrived then she was sitting up and laughing. She turned to me and said “why don’t you just get the “f” out. So I did. I just turned and walked out. She called me and was screaming that I was an animal for leaving her there and this “wasn’t working out as planned”.
  I always think of that. This is a plan? She is “playing” for the compassionate faithful husband I tried to be? She had the power. She knew I would twist myself up in knots to try to make things better. Sadistic in retrospect. Cruel. Selfish. Ugly.
  So I am just waiting on the courts to be divorced. Sure I’ll lose what little I have left but I have my power now. Power not to live like that anymore.
  Thankfully I don’t worry about her as incessantly as I used to.
She latched onto a new sucker. That hurts but helps.
  I have the power over myself. Just gonna take time to sort out my head.
   I never had a lot of relationships. But I do know they should be based on respect. Bpd is just non stop disrespect of all norms.
Never ever ever again. Lonely is just lonely. Insanity is much worse.
 

[StellaS88]

Do you think he defers the decisions to you so that he's not to blame if things don't work out the way he thinks they should?

Oh, man, does this hit the nail on the proverbial head. One of the ongoing fights I had with my now ex-boyfriend was that I would ask him to give me direction on changing the behavior, or responding to his triggers differently, and he'd just say "I don't know" and give me a non-answer. So I would suggest a solution and we'd agree. Next fight, he'd blame me for controlling how things were done and that it has to be my way of doing things all the time. I am realizing now that part of the issue is my own need to make decisions quickly. I didn't understand at the time how much space and time a person w BPD needs to come to decisions. Sometimes they can't make one at all... I don't know how to deal with that frankly. I am a "let's fix it" type and I am open to trying new tactics. It's a challenge to be receptive to their ideas and have to accept that the person with BPD doesn't believe that their suggestion will work.

[Ozzie101]

That’s interesting, Stella. In my marriage, it’s often the other way around. When it comes to big issues (should he quit his job? How should he handle a family crisis?) I tend to be deliberate and like to think things through thoroughly. H wants an answer right that second. Especially if he’s upset.

[StellaS88]

Ozzie -- my decisions are often deliberate and thought-through. I just arrive at them more quickly and feel comfortable expressing those ideas once I've examined them. I didn't mean to suggest my position was impulsive. Simply that when it comes to changing tactics I have a few ideas to try and am open to any/all of them... versus the ex who didn't want to commit to a path forward. Or, the path forward on his suggestion was "be patient".

[Ozzie101]

That makes perfect sense, Stella. Dealing with someone who cannot or will not make a decision can be so frustrating, can’t it?

In my case, H tends to demand an answer right that second, as he wants and raves. I refuse to do that for him.

[formflier]

 Next fight, he'd blame me for controlling how things were done and that it has to be my way of doing things all the time.


 I am a "let's fix it" type and I am open to trying new tactics. It's a challenge to be receptive to their ideas and have to accept that the person with BPD doesn't believe that their suggestion will work.

Good thread!

This issue still pops up from time to time in my r/s.

Here is how I "fixed" it.  Well..dealt with it is likely better word.

1.  pwBPD seem to like status quo, especially if it's murky how that status quo showed up (basically something they are comfortable with but have no responsibility for...or can dodge responsibility for.)

2.  I would respond with confusion and ask for a different way forward.  This would be met with some non answer or I need to think or some deflection.

3.  I would then express disappointment and resignation of no compromise and immediately announce a way forward until such time as compromise is reached.

4.  She would try to shift argument to how can you get to decide to which I would assure her it was only interim to provide relationship stability since I was taking her at her word that #1 "just happened" or was somehow related to chance..vice a decision.  (hehe...here comes the FF azzhole part)

5.  Of course...if she has now thought through how #1 showed up...and has more info to share, I would love to listen.  (note...pwBPD appear to love to put people in catch 22s...one of my favorite tactics is to flip that and "believe them")  So now, she can either own the #1 decision or own something for 2 or 3.  

6.  I again assure her I'm ready to listen and compromise for the betterment of our relationship.  (note..I pepper the entire conversation with reference to a "better relationship" or "doing it for the relationship" and "relationship is important to me", yes deliberately not mentioning her.)   When it comes to her I focus on being ready to listen and understand.

Wash rinse repeat...and be very very consistent.  Befuddled when she tries to lead in a different direction.

She has actually asked "why do we have to compromise"  Luckily FF stayed calm...played the idiot and assured her if she was too busy/preoccupied or whatever to do the relationship work now...for the benefit of the relationship I would assume the burden of making interim decision.

When I'm ok with doing something incendiary (I've tried to be on best behavior and stay away from this) I stay befuddled/perplexed and ask "Oh...do you want to impose a decision without compromise?"

Note:  My wife and I are conservative Christian (Baptist variety) so there is a patriarchal belief system that she is much more vocal about wanting/doing that I am.  So...unless there is "one flesh" (compromise) the husband is expected to step up.  Yet of course in practice she doesn't want to compromise or actually do the belief system she talks so much about.

Last:  So then there would be upset grumpy..whatever.  Not engaging..kinda bemused shrugging of shoulders and moving on with life seems best.

Best,

FF

[LittleMissQuirky]

I think people with very intense emotional reactions, such as many people with BPD, don't realize they have a lot of power. The feeling of "walking on eggshells" is like anxiety. The person who creates that atmosphere with intense emotional reactions will thus have the power. Personally experiencing this, I know that I will just do anything to make that feeling go away, which includes any kind of capitulation to the person.

I couldn't agree more with this. I don't think my partner understands that he influences the tone of the entire household because his emotions are so extreme that they feel almost palpable.