Is it just me?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Back again! I got sucked back into another recycle and here I am yet again. I have a question however. Let me give some background first.

Last Autumn my ex and I were back together. Some guy starts putting hearts on all of her stuff on Facebook and liking all of her stuff and commenting on all of her stuff. It was quite obvious he was chasing after her even though it was obvious on there that we were together. She deletes him and blocks him because it makes her uncomfortable. Then in November or December we break up. A week later he is right there with her.

A few months later her and I talked and she claims they are just friends. Fast forward a few more months and her and I start talking again and get back together. After we get together I find out that between the previous time we talked and this time that they did get together and we're having sex. She even screamed out to him that she wanted to marry him. That caused a bunch of problems later between them but that's another story.

Not long after this the guy wants to talk to me. He's hanging around her still 'just being a friend'. During the conversation he tells me flat out that he is waiting for her and I to break up because that's our pattern. Then he can get back with her. He even told me that he hoped we break up. When I told her that she was very angry at him. She let him know it too. After that he starts coming around and sending her text messages and telling her at her work that he loves her so much and still is in love with her and wants to be with her and misses her and so on.

I confronted him and told him it was inappropriate. She was getting very upset and was very supportive of me saying something to him. He seemed to be out of the picture for a while (she completely blocked him).

The other day when I stopped to grab some lunch and say hi to her, I seen him make a special trip over to customer service (where she works )to joke with her for a second.

She was upset at me the other day and we haven't really talked and tonight I seen her hanging out with him again. I admit I probably overreacted but I went over to the tennis court where they were and put her clothes that I had a my house on her car and sped off. I was quite angry. He looked right at me as I was leaving in my car and I flipped him off. She looked too so I'm sure she thought I flipped her off as well.

I talk to her a little while later and she was yelling at me about how she can hang out with her friends if she wants and that I can't tell her what to do and that I had no right acting like that and she's allowed to have friends and so on. She kept telling me how I didn't trust her and I tried to tell her I don't trust him. Especially after what he said. She yelled at me that that doesn't matter and she does not cheat or anything like that. She made it out that I was controlling like she always does and telling me how I'm manipulative. She told me that she doesn't want to live like that where she has to live the way I want her to. I told her I didn't either and that I was completely done. Then she goes on about how I just leave like that and say that I'm done and push everybody away. I asked her what she wanted from me. It was like she was telling me she doesn't want to live like that and almost saying she didn't want to be with me but when I told her I was done she doesn't want me to be done either. I just finally left.

My main question is would anybody be okay with their romantic other hanging out with a person that I feel broke us up the first time and then admitted all that to me and her as well?

Really I don't mind her having friends and honestly I want her to have friend! My problem is who he is and the history there. Oh and now I'm blocked. Oh well.

[Carguy]

Back again! I got sucked back into another recycle and here I am yet again. I have a question however. Let me give some background first.

Last Autumn my ex and I were back together. Some guy starts putting hearts on all of her stuff on Facebook and liking all of her stuff and commenting on all of her stuff. It was quite obvious he was chasing after her even though it was obvious on there that we were together. She deletes him and blocks him because it makes her uncomfortable. Then in November or December we break up. A week later he is right there with her.

A few months later her and I talked and she claims they are just friends. Fast forward a few more months and her and I start talking again and get back together. After we get together I find out that between the previous time we talked and this time that they did get together and we're having sex. She even screamed out to him that she wanted to marry him. That caused a bunch of problems later between them but that's another story.

Not long after this the guy wants to talk to me. He's hanging around her still 'just being a friend'. During the conversation he tells me flat out that he is waiting for her and I to break up because that's our pattern. Then he can get back with her. He even told me that he hoped we break up. When I told her that she was very angry at him. She let him know it too. After that he starts coming around and sending her text messages and telling her at her work that he loves her so much and still is in love with her and wants to be with her and misses her and so on.

I confronted him and told him it was inappropriate. She was getting very upset and was very supportive of me saying something to him. He seemed to be out of the picture for a while (she completely blocked him).

The other day when I stopped to grab some lunch and say hi to her, I seen him make a special trip over to customer service (where she works )to joke with her for a second.

She was upset at me the other day and we haven't really talked and tonight I seen her hanging out with him again. I admit I probably overreacted but I went over to the tennis court where they were and put her clothes that I had a my house on her car and sped off. I was quite angry. He looked right at me as I was leaving in my car and I flipped him off. She looked too so I'm sure she thought I flipped her off as well.

I talk to her a little while later and she was yelling at me about how she can hang out with her friends if she wants and that I can't tell her what to do and that I had no right acting like that and she's allowed to have friends and so on. She kept telling me how I didn't trust her and I tried to tell her I don't trust him. Especially after what he said. She yelled at me that that doesn't matter and she does not cheat or anything like that. She made it out that I was controlling like she always does and telling me how I'm manipulative. She told me that she doesn't want to live like that where she has to live the way I want her to. I told her I didn't either and that I was completely done. Then she goes on about how I just leave like that and say that I'm done and push everybody away. I asked her what she wanted from me. It was like she was telling me she doesn't want to live like that and almost saying she didn't want to be with me but when I told her I was done she doesn't want me to be done either. I just finally left.

My main question is would anybody be okay with their romantic other hanging out with a person that I feel broke us up the first time and then admitted all that to me and her as well?

Really I don't mind her having friends and honestly I want her to have friend! My problem is who he is and the history there. Oh and now I'm blocked. Oh well.

[grumpydonut]

My main question is would anybody be okay with their romantic other hanging out with a person that I feel broke us up the first time and then admitted all that to me and her as well?

No, that situation is insane. And she is manipulating you both to soothe her own abandonment issues. She has misled you before, and it sounds as though she will continue to mislead you.

I'm sorry to read what you're going through. It sounds horrible and confusing.

[tvda]

Classic triangulation. There's nothing better for a BPD than to have TWO guys fighting for her, and doing the "pick me" dance while she is in total control.

[BKDamon]

I agree, this is completely inappropriate.

How are you supposed to have a serene, trusty relationship with a person who is admittedly a threat hanging around? I find his attitude pretty hostile, and her engaging in this twisted game really messed-up.

When we got back together, my ex wanted to stay friend with the person she left me for (and cheated on me with). I was so enmeshed that I didn’t know what to say even though deep down, I knew I could not accept that. He finally got painted black, so the friendship wasn’t a option anymore. And after a few months, they betrayed me once again and I kicked them both out of my life.

What I mean is that this kind of friendship would be unacceptable for most people, and for reasons that would be obvious to anyone who’s not in a toxic relationship.

We Nons tend to put up with a lot of crap from our pwBPD, and it’s clearly not healthy. So good thing you stood up for yourself.

I wish you strength and courage. Keep on doing what’s right for you!

[B1987]

Think how she would act if you had a female friend in a similar situation - I guarantee she would take serious issue with it!

[Sappho11]

I'm with the others on "not healthy".

My ex kept the woman he left for me around, and close, for the entirety of our relationship. In fact, they were closer than he and I had ever been, despite his denial. I tolerated it for so long only because every hint of a concern of mine would be met with a fierce barrage of "You can't destroy this close friendship I have with her! You don't want me to be happy! I'd never have left her if I had known you'd want me to cut ties with her!" Etc.

I conducted an informal survey among my friends on the matter of whether one should remain in touch or even on friendly terms with one's ex after a breakup. All of them said "HELL NO". A couple of searches of internet forum yielded a slightly more balanced picture, with app. 80-90% of people agreeing and 10-20% saying that remaining friends with exes was "normal". That said, this latter group was definitely in the minority.

So even if your ex's toyboy was in her past, you'd be more than justified to draw a line and ask her to cut ties with him. Considering that she's oscillating between you and him, it's your DAMN RIGHT to put your foot down. Don't make her choose; you'll be miserable if she chooses the other guy. Instead, you could say "This is how it is: I'm not going to be a part of this triangle any longer. If you don't break it off with him, I'm not sticking around." And then either watch her change, or leave with your head held high.

I wish I had done this when I had the chance. Instead, I stuck around (like you), hoping that things would get better eventually; only to be discarded when he had completely used me up.

[Carguy]

Thank you for the validation everyone!

It is insane Grumpydonut! I feel she IS manipulating! She's  trying to turn it on me how I'm horrible for 'barging into the tennis courts and acting like that' and wants to make me feel horrible for even questioning this or getting angry. I admit I likely acted out and could have responded better  but I don't feel that makes ANY of this ok!

Tvda, very good point. This was pointed out to me once before and I can see it now. Especially looking back to last night when I told her that I was completely done and she tells me that I'm just pushing her away again just like I do everybody else. It seems to me she doesn't want me to be completely done. That way she can have both me and this  other guy pining for her. I'm not going to do that.

BKDamon, exactley! The guy is a threat to our relationship! He has even admitted that he was waiting for her and hoped we broke up to both her and I! She knows that I have a problem with her being around him! Thank you! And yes, we do put up with a lot!

B1987, funny thing you should mention that. I was thinking the exact same thing last night. In fact a year-and-a-half ago she broke up with me so I went out on a few dates with someone else. This other girl and I ran into her and she was furious with me. She was colder than I've ever seen her and wouldn't talk to me for seven or eight months. When I did try to say anything to her when I seen her in public she would just respond really cold and angry towards me. It was only two weeks that this girl and I were seeing each other but if I was to go hang out with this girl I know she would come unhinged. She likely would go back to not talking to me and being cold for who knows how many more months. Maybe even permanently! I've always noticed that there are different set of rules for her than there are for me.

Sappho11, that sucks to go through! I see similarities with how she responded to me about I had no right to tell her who she could hang out with and how I was controlling and manipulative and all of that bad stuff last night. Making me feel like I was some controlling jerk not allowing her to see any friends. She doesn't really have any friends but if she did I wouldn't mind her hanging out with friends. I do with this guy though given the history and what he said and admitted to.

I've been doing some thinking today and I came to the conclusion that she knows this guy has been chasing after her, she knows that he wants us to break up so he can be with her, she knows all of this. He admitted it to me and to her. She also knows that I have a huge problem with her hanging out with him. This isn't the first time. It has happened a time or two in the past and I have gotten angry. She points out that I'm still repeating my same behavior. Of course I am! It is inappropriate! I've came to the conclusion that she doesn't respect me or this relationship. She doesn't really care how it makes me feel. She just cares about how it makes her feel. Since she doesn't respect neither the relationship nor I, I must respect myself and just walk away. Stay away and live my own life. That's how I feel at this moment.

[Sappho11]

Sappho11, that sucks to go through! I see similarities with how she responded to me about I had no right to tell her who she could hang out with and how I was controlling and manipulative and all of that bad stuff last night. Making me feel like I was some controlling jerk not allowing her to see any friends. She doesn't really have any friends but if she did I wouldn't mind her hanging out with friends. I do with this guy though given the history and what he said and admitted to.

The "controlling and manipulative" spiel is one I know very well. I think it was Couper who said it's the disorder making them talk about themselves in the second person. Projection is very common in BPD relationships, and it's one of the aspects that is the most disorienting to the healthy partner.

My ex, like your girl, also didn't really have any friends (reeeeeeeeeeed flag  ). I encouraged him to hang out with some acquaintances of his, but this didn't deter him from lashing out at me with the "you don't want me to have friends" argument when I uttered concerns about his close relationship with his ex-girlfriend.

I've been doing some thinking today and I came to the conclusion that she knows this guy has been chasing after her, she knows that he wants us to break up so he can be with her, she knows all of this. He admitted it to me and to her. She also knows that I have a huge problem with her hanging out with him. This isn't the first time. It has happened a time or two in the past and I have gotten angry. She points out that I'm still repeating my same behavior. Of course I am! It is inappropriate! I've came to the conclusion that she doesn't respect me or this relationship. She doesn't really care how it makes me feel. She just cares about how it makes her feel. Since she doesn't respect neither the relationship nor I, I must respect myself and just walk away. Stay away and live my own life. That's how I feel at this moment.

More power to you, good sir! I wish I had done this when I had the chance.

After my ex broke up with me for the first time, and came back tearfully barely two weeks later, I told him a renewed relationship was off the table unless he went no-contact with his ex. He promised me the world and more; about a month in, we had a huge argument when it turned out that he had no intention of doing so, and was likely already back in touch with her. He argued that I couldn't have possibly expected him to keep his promise, since it had been made "under duress". I should have walked there and then.

Instead, I tried to get him to agree to at least cut ties with her for a single year to have the space to mentally transition from lovers to friends, and that they could resume their friendship afterwards. He agreed; it was already a bitter compromise for me. Then changed his mind few days later. I had never felt so hurt in my entire life. He could see what this was doing to me, and yet he just rambled on about how he didn't believe in "artificial no-contact periods", how the "friendship" was a vital part of his life, that he hadn't introduced me to any of his friends because he was ashamed to introduce them to someone who wanted to "rob" him of his great friendship, etc.

In short, it was all about him. The irony was that his ex doesn't seem to want as much to do with him, as he wanted with her... and yet he was happy to cause me great distress, if only to avoid a minor incovenience to him.

Whatever you do, don't be as stupid and blind as I was. I believed his lies because I so, so wanted them to be true. But the truth was that he had zero concern for me and my feelings never factored into the equation.

The lady in question needs to be judged by her actions, not her words. If she does cut ties with the other beau, great. But if she makes no tangible effort to, or your gut tells you there's something fishy going on, you're not sacrificing anything if you're walking away.

One might even be tempted to say "Do it while you can"... you might arrive at a point where you don't have the willpower anymore to do so, and there's plenty of tales of people who've sacrificed decades of their lives on such a lost cause.

[tvda]

Regarding triangulation etc. it's interesting to read about the "pick me dance" over on Chump Lady (google it). It talks about how having two people fighting for your attention (or love) is the ultimate power trip for some people. Having your cake AND eating it, so to speak. It's good reading material, highly recommended!

[grumpydonut]

My partner was obsessed with Twilight.

Then she turned her life into Twilight. I agree with you, TVDA.

[brighter future]

Hello Carguy,

It's good to hear from you again, but I wish it were under different circumstances. I'm sorry to hear that you got pulled back into that situation.  The last time you and I spoke on here we found out that there are a lot of similarities with our ages, the ages of our exes, and some of the circumstances. I'm confident that you know in your heart that a stable relationship with your ex is never going to happen. When I came to that realization myself, I guess it was about 8 months after the breakup or shortly after the first of the year. At that point, I could honestly give two PLEASE READs about what she does with the rebound guy that she's been using for the last year or so. Prior to that, it would eat me up inside thinking about the two of them together.

I've probably told you this before, but I've heard from her a handful of times via phone text messages and through mutual friends social media pages. All of that started 4-5 months after the breakup. She's also walked over to my house 3 separate times since last November when I've been outside. Each time any of this contact was made by her is when her new man isn't around or when he's been at work. I responded to one of the text messages but none of the social media pings. As far as the in person visits go, I was cordial since the kids were around, but I did not welcome her with open arms. The last one occurred about 7 weeks ago.  Oddly enough, during all three of these in person visits, she would never look me in the eye. That said a lot to me. I looked straight at her when I responded to what she said. All of this post relationship contact made me really think about things. No doubt she was doing similar things behind my back that I couldn't see. After the breakup, I went through the rebound guy's social media page and saw out in the open contact between the both of them. On 2-3 occasions while we were together, I saw text messages come through on her phone from him.  Looking back I should have questioned that nonsense, but I never did. That's one thing that I regret not doing. I have better boundaries now.

Maybe once or twice a week, I'll do a quick sweep of her Facebook page out of curiousity. Her life has not changed any since we split. She's still complaining about the same things, is still underemployed, still receives public assistance, is still living in the rental house that she hates and vowed to move out of, still complains about her ex-husband on social media from time to time, and still complains how hard it is to be a single mom. Her daughter still continues to have severe emotional issues, and her young son moved out of her home to go and live with his dad this past Spring. I was told she only has him every other weekend now during the school year. She bragged to mutual friends last Fall that she and the rebound man were looking at getting married. Almost a year later, there's still no ring. Last month she made a public social media post which stated that she could not work more than 20 - 25 hours per week due to mental and physical health issues. Why post that all over social media for everyone to see? And the cycle continues with her...

Have you given any thought to online dating thing? Like you, I am in my mid 40's. I'm sure you know it's a bit harder to meet new people than when you were in your teens and 20's. I've been giving it a try since February and have had a couple of dates and have met some people. Nothing panned out long term with the other two dates, but we did have some good clean fun. It got me out of the house in the process.  This Friday night I have a date with a local woman 5 years younger than me. She's a social worker with one child and owns her own home. Wow, someone that can stand on their own two feet for a change!    Consider giving this a try. It will give you the opportunity to get out of the house and meet some new ladies. This might help you break some of the old patterns that you've been in. If you decide to try it, just be vigilant. I've run across  a handful of people that appear to be very needy and want to be taken care of by someone. I'm just polite to them and go on my way. I am done being a caretaker and a rescuer.

Take care and keep us updated on your situation. Are you still going to counseling? If so, what does your counselor say?  

[Carguy]

Sappho11,

The projection is something I have heard quite a bit about and my therapist and I have talked about too. I often have listened to the things she says I am then apply it to her (almost like she is telling on herself in a weird way without knowing it) and I can see it.

My ex told me a few times that she didn't have friends and it really hurt. She would tell me no one has her back. Projection on her past friendships I think.

Yeah I'm thinking that this guy will hang on for awhile. He has no friends either and a whole host of issues too. He's text and talked to me before. The things he was texting to my ex and I showed that. I think eventually it will hit an explosive point and only then will it fully end for them.

As for me I'm doing my own thing. Eventually I'll  start dating again too when I'm ready.

Tvda,

I went and read that. It really was a good read! I'm not going to chase. I'm not giving her that. I'm not even talking to her. Staying out of view for now.

Grumpydonut,

For some reason that movie seems perfect for a borderline to get obsessed with!

Good to hear from you again Brighter Future!

Thank you. I do remember how similar our situations were! I do know a stable relationship isn't going to happen. Honestly it has been eating at me the last while when things would get wonky in our relationship.

It's interesting that the similarities still continue. She doesn't complain or post any drama or personal stuff on her Facebook but to me she has complained about her job sometimes. Her complaints are always based around not getting along with different co-workers. She also has complained about her apartment and has been trying to get a loan for a house or at least find another apartment. And she always complained about her second husband whom she has kids with but now more recently she has really started complaining about her first ex-husband. The guy she was with a few months ago that is hanging around again also was involved in marriage talk. She told me that when they were together that in the middle of sex she screamed out for him to marry her. He went and told his family they were getting married and she ended up not really wanting to get married and was upset up at him because she felt like she had to smooth things over with his family. She also seems to always have physical problems. Mostly digestive problems.

Funny thing is, when we got back together it wasn't long before she started talking about marriage with me again too. She also started talking a lot about moving in with me again. I remember how horrible it got the last time we lived together years ago. Both of those I avoided like the plague! My thought at the time was I will give it a year and if things are going good then I will think about it.

I do have to give her credit though. I did notice some changes because of her therapy. The therapist she has is actually quite good. My therapist even told me that. There have been times that she actually took ownership of some things after the fact. She also has started realizing some of the things she does because he's pointing it out to her and helping her see it. I was quite surprised when she would take ownership of those things!

I have done the online dating thing off and on for years now. I have gotten a few good dates from it. There is actually a girl that I know has been interested in me for awhile. I've never pursued that when I have been with my ex but maybe I will go meet her and go out to coffee or something. She lives a couple of hours away. I'm not really looking to get into a relationship at the moment though. I'm still just doing my thing.

Like you I am done caretaking as well! It's too exhausting! I am still going to counseling. My counselor has been working with me to better understand her and also work on myself. He did tell me in the past that his personal opinion was it would never work with her. We did some EMDR again a few sessions ago. I think it's helping me. I think another thing helping me is that I'm getting tired of all of this and getting to the point I just really don't care if she leaves and we split up. Not like I used to.

[khibomsis]

Carguy you are absolutely right. Hang on in there! It will get better. 

[Carguy]

Khibomsis! I was wondering if you were still around! How have you been? I got the hot tub up and going and have been enjoying it this year. Also bought an above ground pool and been swimming and it quite a bit!:-)

I just barely posted again. I would appreciate if you read it and gave me your thoughts on it. :-)