'How' to move forward... the road to recovery

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am not making the progress I would like, to recovery and moving forward with a healthy. happy life.

Some pieces holding me back:

Divorce court.  Going on 2 years now.  We do have a trial date coming up after which I am hopeful that portion is put behind us.  None of the lawyers (even hers) say the trial has any purpose, but wife is forcing it to happen and the courts allow the 'process'. 

With luck that will loosen up communications with various people.  All friends and family and even my kids have been warned that anything they do or say or text or email will end up in court, so be careful interacting with me.  (lots of other things they have been told but I no longer worry about that).

I have three kids.  My son honors the visitation plan, and continues to have a relationship with me.  He suffers a lot of drama as a result, and it is affecting him negatively, but he does it anyway.  I am trying to get him some counseling for support.

My two daughters have minimal contact with me.  And wife does not share any information about what they are doing. 

So in effect, I have lost two children.  They just do not have the freedom to engage with me if they wanted to.  They may come back some day when adults and making their own life decisions.  But, its hard to lose a child.  Times two.  (previous my entire life and identity revolved around my children)

The fact that we are still not divorced means the financial planning and budgeting is completely unknown.  So that makes it hard to look forward.

And this sense of grieving over the loss of my daughters - needing to happen to get to 'acceptance' and moving forward - yet at the same time knowing they are not lost and still alive, puts me in an emotional purgatory needing to plan/move forward with my own life while having the door open (and pursuing even) for the opportunity for them to engage should they choose to.  Spare me the questions on 'fighting' for time with the kids via the courts - have been through this ad nauseum with lawyers and net net is that the courts are useless.  At the end of the day they can not control a difficult personality.  She will do whatever she is going to do, and it will take time for everyone else (including my kids) to sort out their own reality.

My work environment is not particularly satisfying either, but it serves a purpose for now.  And the pandemic over the last year has made some traditional recovery activities more difficult (my family are out of state as are most of my closer friends).  So the social activities are somewhat limited still.

A big 2 year holding pattern... and it is tiring.

So I am in this mode where I want to look forward.  I am relieved to be out of an unhealthy relationship - which I always feared what the cost would be - loss of 2/3 of my children.  But I need to recover from the PTSD.  I want to be as far away from her as possible, but having children makes this not possible.  (and yes in many ways they are just emotional weapons for her to wield)

A key part is the feeling of hopelessness.  In that creating a vision of forward life does not include my daughters.  So I have to accept that - the dynamics with my wife are hopeless and will not change (a true PD).  To overcome the sense of hopelessness means letting go of that part  - which I want (remaining in my kids lives in some meaningful way).  You cant always have what you want... as the saying goes.  But at the same time I want to make decisions that keep the possibility and door open should they choose to reengage some day.

Financial status.  Budgets.  Work choices.  Pursuing other activities (my past hobbies/equipment is tied up in court as well).  Et al... all are influenced by these things to one degree or another.

So am just posting the reflection that recently I am asking myself;  I need and want to start thinking more forward.  And building a new life.  But, 'how'? is it done?

[yeeter]

I am not making the progress I would like, to recovery and moving forward with a healthy. happy life.

Some pieces holding me back:

Divorce court.  Going on 2 years now.  We do have a trial date coming up after which I am hopeful that portion is put behind us.  None of the lawyers (even hers) say the trial has any purpose, but wife is forcing it to happen and the courts allow the 'process'. 

With luck that will loosen up communications with various people.  All friends and family and even my kids have been warned that anything they do or say or text or email will end up in court, so be careful interacting with me.  (lots of other things they have been told but I no longer worry about that).

I have three kids.  My son honors the visitation plan, and continues to have a relationship with me.  He suffers a lot of drama as a result, and it is affecting him negatively, but he does it anyway.  I am trying to get him some counseling for support.

My two daughters have minimal contact with me.  And wife does not share any information about what they are doing. 

So in effect, I have lost two children.  They just do not have the freedom to engage with me if they wanted to.  They may come back some day when adults and making their own life decisions.  But, its hard to lose a child.  Times two.  (previous my entire life and identity revolved around my children)

The fact that we are still not divorced means the financial planning and budgeting is completely unknown.  So that makes it hard to look forward.

And this sense of grieving over the loss of my daughters - needing to happen to get to 'acceptance' and moving forward - yet at the same time knowing they are not lost and still alive, puts me in an emotional purgatory needing to plan/move forward with my own life while having the door open (and pursuing even) for the opportunity for them to engage should they choose to.  Spare me the questions on 'fighting' for time with the kids via the courts - have been through this ad nauseum with lawyers and net net is that the courts are useless.  At the end of the day they can not control a difficult personality.  She will do whatever she is going to do, and it will take time for everyone else (including my kids) to sort out their own reality.

My work environment is not particularly satisfying either, but it serves a purpose for now.  And the pandemic over the last year has made some traditional recovery activities more difficult (my family are out of state as are most of my closer friends).  So the social activities are somewhat limited still.

A big 2 year holding pattern... and it is tiring.

So I am in this mode where I want to look forward.  I am relieved to be out of an unhealthy relationship - which I always feared what the cost would be - loss of 2/3 of my children.  But I need to recover from the PTSD.  I want to be as far away from her as possible, but having children makes this not possible.  (and yes in many ways they are just emotional weapons for her to wield)

A key part is the feeling of hopelessness.  In that creating a vision of forward life does not include my daughters.  So I have to accept that - the dynamics with my wife are hopeless and will not change (a true PD).  To overcome the sense of hopelessness means letting go of that part  - which I want (remaining in my kids lives in some meaningful way).  You cant always have what you want... as the saying goes.  But at the same time I want to make decisions that keep the possibility and door open should they choose to reengage some day.

Financial status.  Budgets.  Work choices.  Pursuing other activities (my past hobbies/equipment is tied up in court as well).  Et al... all are influenced by these things to one degree or another.

So am just posting the reflection that recently I am asking myself;  I need and want to start thinking more forward.  And building a new life.  But, 'how'? is it done?

[I Am Redeemed]

What you are going through is so very difficult, yeeter. Losing a child is a parents' worst fear. In this case, the loss is not due to a death, but to parental alienation. This kind of loss is considered an "ambiguous loss", where the person is physically absent but psychologically present. That kind of grief can be particularly hard to process, because the situation is prolonged and there's no finality to it.

Grief in this kind of situation could also be considered "disenfranchised", meaning that the situation is not one that a lot of people have or will experience and it may be hard to openly express the loss and have it validated by others. Everyone experiences loss of a loved one to a death at some point, and that kind of grief is universally understood and accepted. Losing a relationship with children due to a mentally ill spouse's parental alienation is not universal. That can make it even harder to move forward. Simple questions such as "how many kids do you have " can bring a flood of thoughts and feelings we don't know how to handle.

I would suggest doing some work with a therapist that is trauma focused and experienced in grief or bereavement counseling. I am also working on healing from complex trauma from both childhood FOO dynamics and an abusive relationship with stbx ubpdh. I lost custody of my oldest kids due to that relationship, and though I still have contact, it's been minimal since the pandemic and I have to go through every day battling the feelings of grief and loss over my kids. There's also the secondary loss of my identity as their mother. When parental authority is taken away, the relationship with our children is interrupted or inhibited by external sources, and the opportunity to actually be a parent to our kids is blocked somehow, it can feel like a constant weight on our mind and heart, making every step feel like walking through mud, pulling us down.

Having a counselor who understands this has been what has helped me continue moving forward.

Whatever steps you take to move forward,  you are not leaving your kids behind. You are leaving behind things that did not benefit you in a healthy way.

What decisions do you think you should make in order to leave the door open for your kids should they decide to resume contact in the future?

[yeeter]

Thank you Redeemed.  You do understand some of the dynamics.  As you say, not that many do (quite different than a child dying).

Complex trauma.  PTSD.  I do have a therapist I have been working with for some time, and she is trying to provide some guidance.  But it is a process (grieving), and recovery.  And a number of actions to move forward are made much more difficult due to a pandemic. 

Decisions to leave the door open for my kids are pretty straightforward (staying physically close by, reaching out via occasional emails, texts, links to let them know I think of them, staying engaged with their friends parents and also other family members, commenting on activities they are doing (when I can discover those), etc).  If anything, I have weighted these 'too high' and end up spending all my time and stuck waiting for them to use the opportunity.  It may take years - so I have to compartmentalize those items and at the same time in parallel provide some energy and thought to my own recovery.

Alienation has become a trendy word like some of the other labels.  IMO, the 'domestic abuse by proxy' is more appropriate description.  It is simply a new way for the abuser to inflict hurt/control now that I am not more directly available.

I am hoping once trial is over, a few more control points will be reduced (constant legal threats under the guise of preparing for trial).  At some point I need to break free from the gridlock of fear on every action of what the implication/response will be from my stbx.  In some ways the eggshell walking is greater now than before (at least in recent years).  Letting go of those control points are key to relief, which at least in some ways means letting go of my children.

Yep, complex trauma.

Being grateful.  Deliberately calling out some positive elements in my life.  Deliberate push to go do things that I know are healthy activities even if I might not 'feel like it' in the moment.  Dont push away those 'disenfranchised' people who have genuinely good intentions (but really have no idea what they are talking about).  Adopting new hobbies that are available.  Volunteering to help others has been high on my satisfaction list lately.

[empathic]

Hello Yeeter, I think I understand where you are coming from. I have two kids, now in their later teenages and since me and ex separated more than 5 years ago, my ex has with various tactics gotten them to stay with her pretty much all the time (with a few exceptions when she has travelled, redone her home etc). Problem is it has turned into a "new normal" and is now very hard to change for me, leaving me lonely most of the time. I have to actively suggest something to do to meet with either one of them (also as they have lives on their own now with bf/gf etc), I never get the casual "family life" with making dinner, playing games or watching TV together.

Also, not the last years with ex, but I was driven a lot before by the family life of organizing things like trips, things around the home etc. All that disappeared as well - I do not get the same drive from just doing things for myself, like things in my new home. Especially as few people are around to see it or benefit from it.

I too have a therapist to work this through with, but progress feels slow while time travels fast and I miss out on quality time with the kids.

Just wanted to let you know you are not alone in this (as the post above also suggests). Take care.

[I Am Redeemed]

I had to look up "domestic abuse by proxy". I knew about the behavior, but I had not heard the term. It makes sense. Craig Childress has information about it on his website.

How old is your son? Is he open to the idea of therapy? How could you facilitate counseling for him? I'm assuming your ex won't be open to that.

Moving forward for me, without much contact with my kids (and knowing that they are exposed to emotional and verbal abuse) has been motivated by believing that the best thing I can do for all of us is to strive to be the best version of myself possible and a stubborn streak in me that refuses to give up, ever. I always said that my spirit was the only thing I possessed that my ex couldn't break.

[yeeter]

Thank you redeemed, empathic, for the words of support.

I am trying to get some counseling for my daughters.  My son finally did get some help (after a second suicide attempt and an inpatient psych program).  During this time he also expressed that the behavior of mom driving a high conflict divorce and alienating his sisters was a considerable contributor to his stress.  None of that was received/heard by her in spite of a very competent counselor also trying to communicate to her.

It is a genuine disorder.  And no hope of changing that.  Which causes harm and damage to those around her, including long term damage to her/our children (at least everything I read suggests children without both parents fare worse than if they keep both parents active in their life).  But her coaching is that it is entirely appropriate for them to cut me out of their life (since I was such an awful and uninvolved father all these years - opposite of reality but reality is very distorted to her at this point).

There is no help via the legal system.  That has been a learning/surprise to me. 

I appreciate the  support on this board.  It has helped me over the years in trying to manage the relationship.  One of my very first posts shared the concerns over how it would play out, which has been entirely accurate and I held on and delayed it for a decade.  So there is that.

Parental Alienation is a complex topic.  People with personality disorders are more prone to it.  I wonder if it would be a worthwhile topic to have as a category here - I can not be the only person experiencing this dynamic.  There is relatively little research and support for it, although it is a growing problem (which makes some sense - PD's are growing and thus high conflict divorce cases are growing and PA goes right along with that).

I did read some articles that alienated parents themselves do poorly over the years.  More depression.  More alcoholism.  More health problems.  It is a grief that doesnt finalize (unlike death of a child). 

Which to a large degree, is exactly what the alienator wants.  To exert power and control.  To cause pain to the other party.  To hoard the love and attention of the child.  And it works.  If someone is really willing to use their children as weapons (at the childs expense), the legal system can not deal with it (pretty much what my lawyers conveyed to me). 

So the balance is to continue to be available and reach out and keep the door open.  While at the same time moving forward and establishing a healthy, happy lifestyle independent of them.  A tough emotional fence to straddle.  Not to mention the logistical aspects.

Again there might be more appropriate/specific support boards.  I havent found them yet.  And at the heart of it is the same dynamic -  a parent with a personality disorder. 

I have to say, I am very relieved to be away from her in the day to day.  It has been a long time coming.  Still a lot of healing to happen, and the alienation and a pandemic doesnt help with that.

[yeeter]

This link is reasonable for those in PA recovery

https://karenwoodall.blog/2016/10/08/helping-the-hopeless-caring-for-the-alienated-parent/amp/

[Cat Familiar]

Something to consider about your daughters is that children of BPD mothers (and fathers, I presume, but speaking from my own experience and what I’ve witnessed from others), are involved in an addictive cycle of trying to get love from an unreliable parent, who occasionally gives warm support, but more frequently withholds. (Intermittent reinforcement)

Whereas from the reliable *non* parent, that support is always there and therefore can be taken for granted.

This is addictive behavior I’m talking about and those times when the BPD mother finally is loving and supportive are so incredibly special. And addicting.

[Cat Familiar]

To counter this, try to be as present in your daughters’ minds as possible. You’ll undoubtedly contend with little to no acknowledgement, but they will know you are thinking about them.