Quiet BPD: How many think their ex falls into this category?

[Ad Meliora]

The more I delve into it I think this fits my uBPDex's specific behaviors.  I mean, it's hard to know, I'm just learning about all of this in the last few months and just jumped into the forum here, but I think this is a better fit than just the 'impulsive' type I pegged her for.  There was definitely a lot of anger, blame, rage directed inward and it helped her hide it from her friends and family.  She would bend over backwards to please them and keep the charade going, but with me it was different. I was in a different category, and if I tried discussing it she would either withdraw or dismiss it as just her Norwegian heritage and upbringing.  Feelings were to be bottled up and not shared, even with your romantic partner (Well, until they explode like a Piñata of Pain!  . 

She was confusing to "read" and she couldn't read me at all or even read a letter from me without taking it as a personal affront or that she was doing something wrong.  She would say, "So you're saying I'm emotionally unavailable?"  (No, but maybe I should be...).  She was a great storyteller though, an expert at excuses.

She had trouble with simple questions such as: "If you won the lottery today and could do whatever you wanted, what would you do?"  She would struggle for an answer, as if she had no idea what a "happy" future could look like.  I'd ask her "What specifically do you like about me?" And she'd get a look like I asked her to factor a quadratic equation (which she could easily do as she was a math/physics major).

I'm digressing into my specifics but I found this article explaining Quiet BPD a pretty good match to the behaviors I witnessed.  They can still have all the impulsive traits (the money spending, gambling, risky behaviors, etc...) but it is more unclear to the outside world what was going on in their inside world.

I came to understand towards the end of the relationship that she was suffering greatly, mostly at her own hand.  How else could she be so toxic and abusive unless it was there inside already?

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-quiet-borderline-personality-disorder-5115074

Another thing, how did your BPD partners sleep?  Maybe that should be another topic.  You may have heard of the "Jimmy-Leg" well, my BPDex had the "Jimmy-Body".  Twitching, kicking, punching and completely restless sleep.  All kinds of tricks and gadgets would be used to help her relax enough to sleep.  She'd put on some sleep meditation and I'd be out like a light, snoring,--it was a point of contention.  Just wondering.

[grumpydonut]

Mine couldn't sleep without the noise of a fan. Was so weird having a fan blaring in winter.

[Sappho11]

(...) (Well, until they explode like a Piñata of Pain!  . 

Piñata of Pain, what a great band name! 

She was confusing to "read" and she couldn't read me at all or even read a letter from me without taking it as a personal affront or that she was doing something wrong.

Same here. This worsened over time. At the end of the relationship, my ex would even yell at me for giving him compliments. It was mind-boggling how he could twist even the most loving and appreciative comment into something negative.

Later I came to understand that this was merely a defence mechanism – protecting himself from actually getting too attached to me, which scared him to death.

She was a great storyteller though, an expert at excuses.

Oh boy, that too. I could do something loving and caring, and he would be able to twist it into the worst sin against humanity, ever. But at the same time, he could do the most abominable things and spin it to present himself like a saint.

I'd go over to his place in the middle of the night to console him through one of his many dark moments (to his great momentary relief, and often upon his request). The next day, this would be painted as me "disrespecting his boundaries when he wanted to be alone", "controlling" him etc.

He, on the other hand, could break up with me because he wanted to bed other women, and after being unsuccessful at this, he'd be back two weeks later praising himself how he only did this "for us" and "for the relationship", because he had to "figure things out in order to take things to the next level" (which of course, never came).

Hundreds of examples like this.

I'd ask her "What specifically do you like about me?" And she'd get a look like I asked her to factor a quadratic equation (which she could easily do as she was a math/physics major).

This exactly. I asked my ex shortly before the final discard what it was that he liked about me. He replied, with great hesitation: "Your sincere interest in other people."

I'm naturally misanthropic, so I take it he meant "your sincere interest in me".

I asked for other things, and he couldn't come up with anything. He said one or two things that literally described the opposite of who I am.

I came to understand towards the end of the relationship that she was suffering greatly, mostly at her own hand.  How else could she be so toxic and abusive unless it was there inside already?

This. This is one of the reasons why I don't hate my ex for what he put me through. He's ill and couldn't help himself. I only feel pity knowing that he will never be truly happy as long as he doesn't face his disorder.

Another thing, how did your BPD partners sleep?  Maybe that should be another topic.  You may have heard of the "Jimmy-Leg" well, my BPDex had the "Jimmy-Body".  Twitching, kicking, punching and completely restless sleep.  All kinds of tricks and gadgets would be used to help her relax enough to sleep.  She'd put on some sleep meditation and I'd be out like a light, snoring,--it was a point of contention.  Just wondering.

My ex would have to keep the curtains open (!) in order to be able to fall asleep. We're talking about a grown man of almost 30 years of age here. I wake at the first ray of light, so that was a huge contention point. Needless to say, he'd try and make me feel guilty for being cranky after getting only four hours or so of sleep.

[Shaken54]

You are so right I believe my ex was the quiet type too, her coworkers and friends think she is a sweetheart.
Little do they know the BS i put up with for 4 years, I know some of her family members are aware. Her daughter even told she is the most self destructive person she ever met. Mine didn't rage at me often in 4 years I only experienced that twice and it was brief but scary, she called herself a bottler all the time.
Communication with her was nearly impossible because she would just shut down, when she would get triggered her go to reaction was to block me and give me the silent treatment.

She is a pathological liar, I uncovered she had been lying to me since day one. You name it she would lie about it.
A month or so ago we had a long discussion by text of course she would never talk to me on the phone not once in 4 years. So she tells me all these things from her childhood ie: drugs and alcohol, I bring up about the lying she is apologetic about it says its a coping mechanism for her. I tell her its unacceptable again she apologized, so a few weeks go by coming home from a medical procedure she proceeds to tell me her dad is driving her home and sends me a picture of her hospital papers on her lap. Well lucky for me it was a live photo on iPhone so i play it and what do i hear in that short video, her being called out by some guy that was not her dad. He must have seen my name on her phone because he said "I know daddy's name" so she was lying to me and lying to him.
My guess is she was just trying to keep me around to see if this new guy worked out because she had been feeding me crumbs for months, lots of I am so sick I am exhausted  never any time for me. But hearing that video clip gave me the courage to finally walk away and go no contact.

Sad part of all this is I loved her still do but there is no amount of love that will fix her only she can try to doo that but she needs to want too and actually follow through it.

[Rev]

My ex ticks all these boxes ... no joke. You sure we weren't with the same person (LOL) including Grumpy - except it was the television and not a fan.

Rev

[Ad Meliora]

Yes Shaken, I read your story about the phone call, that was just horrible--inexcusible (at least to another non).  I didn't want to believe it but I think my BPDex falls into the pathological liar category also.  She was the Queen of Excuses for sure which she always saw as sound "reasons".  I'm not sure that my BPDex even saw what she was doing as lying.  It made sense to her to say what she said, maybe she wanted that to be true, so "Poof" it's true!  Here's an example:  She messed with the lock on my back entry door until she broke the lever handle and I was there when it happened.  A little while later she wondered why the handle didn't work. I said "You broke it." She said, "How do you know I broke it?"  This was close to the end.  She lied about little things, she lied about big things.  She lied so much it's a wonder her pants weren't always on fire! 

Rev--maybe you did date her?  If so, please take her and the memories of her to a galaxy far, far, away--if possible.    It doesn't seem to matter age, gender, race, creed, or sexual orientation the story is always the same.  They are playing by the same playbook that none of us have a copy of.

Sappho, 

At the end of the relationship, my ex would even yell at me for giving him compliments. It was mind-boggling how he could twist even the most loving and appreciative comment into something negative.

Later I came to understand that this was merely a defence mechanism – protecting himself from actually getting too attached to me, which scared him to death.

Yes, this too for me.  I don't know exactly the reason for twisting the compliments, were we supposed to repeat them and make them even sound better and more sincere?  Like the stern piano teacher that tells you play the scales "Again!  Now staccato!"  "Again! now Andante!" "Again...Again..."  All another way to confuse us, work us over, break us down.  I think you have it right, it was to keep us pushed away and not too attached.  That's how she avoided the "final discard".  Made things so bad for me, sabotaged our relationship so completely with landmines, there was no choice but for me to abandon it and turn back.  When I was gone she was done with me, happy she can blame me as she tells the story to those who will listen.

I could go on with the storytelling.  She's one of the best I've met in the oral tradition.  She could spin a yarn like nobody's business, but now I'm thinking they were mostly fiction and not based on fact.  If I would ask her to write things down now, oh boy, that was a no go and something she admitted was not a strong point.  When she took a job 5 states away I wrote her long letters, poetry, and some of both in emails.  I encouraged her to write and one day I did get something back and it was her attempt (which I was excited to receive).  It went something like this:

I like you, and your kiss.
And other stuff.

Compact, concise, but if only using 4 nouns maybe don't use abstract noun as one of them in your love poem, not sure Wordsworth or Byron would be impressed...  Now, I'm not sharing this to be critical other than this is her pouring out all she has in her heart for me.  There it is.  I said "Great, it's a good start".  But that's as far and deep as it ever got, this was in the early "good" phase of the relationship.

I'm interested in what others have to say, all the other readers out there.  You all paid your admission being tethered to someone with BPD.  Throw down your charbroiled impossible meat patty here on the thread and share with us your experience.  I'm not here to judge and criticize, that was your BPD partner, right? 

[Sappho11]

Sappho,  
Yes, this too for me.  I don't know exactly the reason for twisting the compliments, were we supposed to repeat them and make them even sound better and more sincere?  Like the stern piano teacher that tells you play the scales "Again!  Now staccato!"

Way to give me a fright! I only saw "piano teacher" and "staccato" at first glance and did a doubletake. I was my ex's piano teacher for two years... and the first anecdote he always recalled was how I had asked him in the second lesson "Have you ever played staccato?"

"Again! now Andante!" "Again...Again..."

I'm happy to see that this example wasn't based on actual experience with a bad teacher, but on conjecture  

(...)

I could go on with the storytelling.  She's one of the best I've met in the oral tradition.  She could spin a yarn like nobody's business, but now I'm thinking they were mostly fiction and not based on fact.  If I would ask her to write things down now, oh boy, that was a no go and something she admitted was not a strong point.  When she took a job 5 states away I wrote her long letters, poetry, and some of both in emails.  I encouraged her to write and one day I did get something back and it was her attempt (which I was excited to receive).  It went something like this:

I like you, and your kiss.
And other stuff.

It's eerie how similar these love stories are, even with genders reversed. I used to write poetry for my ex, too. He'd ask: "How do you know how to do that?" He was very well spoken (when he chose to), but he just couldn't wrap his head around putting a genuine sentiment into words. In hindsight it dawned on me that he simply didn't have genuine feelings for other people – at least none that exceeded those born out of his childish, selfish need for attention and validation.

After he discarded me, he sent me a long email titled "Letter" describing his state of mind, that he didn't want the relationship to end, that we couldn't be together because it would make him "perish", that he would miss me, that he was grateful for all the good things and times I had shown him (wish I could return the compliment), that I (!) shouldn't be so rash in judging other people (I'd endured his antics for months if not years) etc. He wrote in long, convoluted sentences how he would look at the moon while picking up the shards of his existence, and so on and so forth. It was one of the most vacuous, bombastic and confusing things I've ever read. The words were there – but the feelings weren't.

I should add that what triggered this discard was my complaint that he thought it too much to see me two nights a week and to send me a text every now and again – and that I felt this was incongruent behaviour from someone who claimed he wanted to marry me and have children together. Seeing the woman he allegedly "loved more than anything in the world" twice a week and sending her a text once a day would have made him "perish"? Give me a break.

It seems ridiculous now, but without the distance, it just hurt.

[Ad Meliora]

Yeah, Sappho maybe I should be like the Rev and say "Did you date my ex? 

The song remains the same it seems despite genders reversed.  And no, I don't know anything about piano lessons really, clarinet was my instrument in the day a long long time ago.  I was going to say Adagio, I can barely remember what these words truly meant. 

In hindsight it dawned on me that he simply didn't have genuine feelings for other people – at least none that exceeded those born out of his childish, selfish need for attention and validation.

I think this is spot on. I don't know about all other people, just me as a people.

I should add that what triggered this discard was my complaint that he thought it too much to see me two nights a week and to send me a text every now and again – and that I felt this was incongruent behaviour from someone who claimed he wanted to marry me and have children together. Seeing the woman he allegedly "loved more than anything in the world" twice a week and sending her a text once a day would have made him "perish"? Give me a break.

Yes, our stories are going to line up here pretty good.  I wanted to see my BPDex as much as possible and two-three nights a week seemed out of the question, just too much.  She might agree in person we could get together, but then there were the excuses to not have me over.  "I'm feeling sweaty and didn't shower".  It takes me 30 minutes to get there, that isn't enough time to shower?  "I don't feel like myself today."  Really, you said that 3 times last week, who are you today? "My toilet is clogged and I don't want you over."  Really?  Something is full of sh*t here, for sure.  This would go on and on to the point I sometimes wouldn't see her more than one day a week.  I wrote in a letter 2 months after I went NC (I didn't know that was a thing til this forum) that in hindsight it would've just been better if she only wanted to see me once a week, and to do that, but I'd be no better than her friends on her softball team in that case.

So this seems like strange behavior for someone who said she "wanted" me and "needed" me.  They were the right words, but no actions to back them up.

As far as texting or messaging that was sporadic at best.  Sometimes I'd get a couple of texts in a row. I'd respond, maybe have an exchange of few and then nothing.  The ratio was about 4 to 1 (me to her).  I had decided after 4 I'd just wait and it may take days to get a response from this person who "needed" me.

She got bored easy too, and would apologize if the night wasn't exciting.  She liked drama, liked to create it.  I, on the other hand, disliked unnecessary drama and would try to diffuse it.  One night about 4 months from the end after a recycle I went over to her place and we watched a movie, afterwards she disappeared.  I searched her out and found her playing candy crush on her phone in the bedroom.  I was surprised, here I was coming over to see her after not seeing her for days and 3hrs in, she's completely bored with me being there.  I asked if I should leave (I have my own household to run, pets to care for--my own life!).  She said "No, not really, I just don't think we have to be together all of the time."  OMG, for real?  In those days it was about 8-10 hours max is all she could maintain the charade of caring about me being around.  Then it was time for my departure.  I thought she was my girlfriend, I thought we were lovers.  The apps on her phone got as much attention as I did, probably more. 

[Sappho11]

Yeah, Sappho maybe I should be like the Rev and say "Did you date my ex?  

  Sounds about right!

Yes, our stories are going to line up here pretty good.  I wanted to see my BPDex as much as possible and two-three nights a week seemed out of the question, just too much.  She might agree in person we could get together, but then there were the excuses to not have me over.  "I'm feeling sweaty and didn't shower".  It takes me 30 minutes to get there, that isn't enough time to shower?  "I don't feel like myself today."  Really, you said that 3 times last week, who are you today? "My toilet is clogged and I don't want you over."  Really?  Something is full of sh*t here, for sure.  This would go on and on to the point I sometimes wouldn't see her more than one day a week.  I wrote in a letter 2 months after I went NC (I didn't know that was a thing til this forum) that in hindsight it would've just been better if she only wanted to see me once a week, and to do that, but I'd be no better than her friends on her softball team in that case.

The bolded part had me yelling "Oh my gosh!" at the computer. I've had this exact, and I mean this exact, conversation with my ex. And week later he would use it in an argument: "You never listen to me! I told you I needed some space and you didn't respect it!" – "You never said you needed some space, you said you hadn't showered, you hadn't tidied up, you didn't feel well – I thought you were merely feeling insecure and I wanted to show you that I'd be there for you regardless of such trivial things!" "See? My feelings are not trivial! [Note: classic bait-and-switch] You don't respect my boundaries at all!" After about three or four hours he finally saw that in order for another person to understand "I need some space" he has to say the actual words of "I need some space", because other people just can't read minds, least of all his.

Of course, by the next time we had such a situation, this insight was all but forgotten by him.

So this seems like strange behavior for someone who said she "wanted" me and "needed" me.  They were the right words, but no actions to back them up.

As far as texting or messaging that was sporadic at best.  Sometimes I'd get a couple of texts in a row. I'd respond, maybe have an exchange of few and then nothing.  The ratio was about 4 to 1 (me to her).  I had decided after 4 I'd just wait and it may take days to get a response from this person who "needed" me.

I feel for you. This I know all too well. Time slows down to a crawl as you wait for the other person to respond. At that point you're in way too deep, but it's difficult to get out of that bog.

She got bored easy too, and would apologize if the night wasn't exciting.  She liked drama, liked to create it.  I, on the other hand, disliked unnecessary drama and would try to diffuse it.  One night about 4 months from the end after a recycle I went over to her place and we watched a movie, afterwards she disappeared.  I searched her out and found her playing candy crush on her phone in the bedroom.  I was surprised, here I was coming over to see her after not seeing her for days and 3hrs in, she's completely bored with me being there.  I asked if I should leave (I have my own household to run, pets to care for--my own life!).  She said "No, not really, I just don't think we have to be together all of the time."  OMG, for real?  In those days it was about 8-10 hours max is all she could maintain the charade of caring about me being around.  Then it was time for my departure.  I thought she was my girlfriend, I thought we were lovers.  The apps on her phone got as much attention as I did, probably more.  

That's pure narcissism at play here. Well familiar with that, too. I'd cook an elaborate candle-light dinner and my ex would retreat to the couch afterwards in order to browse Reddit, leaving me to clean up the kitchen, too. No post-dinner conversation, not even physical intimacy. He'd pretend to be a little bashful ("I feel a bit bad leaving you like this, now you've cooked dinner again and I'm here on your couch browsing Reddit") but then continue with it anyway.

Cold comfort, I have an acquaintance whose ex-boyfriend scores high on the NPD spectrum, and when she sat down next to him on the couch one night, he'd tell her with utter seriousness: "Can you please sit down over there [at the other end of the room]? We don't have to stick together like this all the time." Let's just say that whole relationship didn't end well... these people just operate in a different frame of mind.

[Ad Meliora]

Yeah, this is all pretty much right on Sappho.

After about three or four hours he finally saw that in order for another person to understand "I need some space" he has to say the actual words of "I need some space", because other people just can't read minds, least of all his.

Of course, by the next time we had such a situation, this insight was all but forgotten by him.

I encouraged my BPDex to use actual words, just like you point out, about how she's feeling.  If she didn't want to see me, fine.  Tell me that, don't tell me the toilet's clogged, etc...  The truth is I don't think she knew what she wanted from moment to moment so it may have been an impossible ask.   She expected me to be able to read her mind just the same.  Here's some examples:

--Early on before we were dating and just co-workers she would be telling me a story using names of people I didn't know, as if I was supposed to know them.  I would try and interrupt and say "I don't know who these people are" and maybe she would say "my friend" or "sister", but it was as if my lack of understanding was immaterial to her storytelling.  I was just some random audience member to witness her yarn. She provided no context, but somehow I was supposed to know it?

--She was to leave for a flight at 4:30am and I asked if she wanted me to take her the airport.  She said to me "Are you asking me if I want you to take me to the airport or do you want to take me to the airport?"  I said "yes, I'm asking you...".  She said, "If you have to ask then you don't want to so I'll just take an Uber.  Sidelining me and leaving me completely confused.  No one wants to go to the airport at 4am, but it's what you do for people you care about.  It was always a confusing mess dealing with her on such topics.

Yes, the whole conversation would be soon forgotten afterwards if I ever brought it up in the future or tried to reverse the roles, "Do you want to come with me to such and such..."  She would have a blank look on her face, "Oh never mind..."

She was a procrastinator and was fairly lazy.  I can get in these modes too.  I told her not to beat herself up about it.  If she was too lazy to shower, just tell me, I didn't really care.  I told her she can be lazy in finding work, and lazy with her friends, but please don't be lazy about love.  That was the biggest sin in my mind, and that's where she was the most indolent of all.

I had similar situations to the one you spoke of with your friend dating the NPD guy.   At least I saw it as red flags by that time.

[Sappho11]

--She was to leave for a flight at 4:30am and I asked if she wanted me to take her the airport.  She said to me "Are you asking me if I want you to take me to the airport or do you want to take me to the airport?"  I said "yes, I'm asking you...".  She said, "If you have to ask then you don't want to so I'll just take an Uber.  Sidelining me and leaving me completely confused.  No one wants to go to the airport at 4am, but it's what you do for people you care about.  It was always a confusing mess dealing with her on such topics.

Yes, the whole conversation would be soon forgotten afterwards if I ever brought it up in the future or tried to reverse the roles, "Do you want to come with me to such and such..."  She would have a blank look on her face, "Oh never mind..."

There is a great podcast on setting boundaries which once featured an insightful episode on parental enmeshment. I'm familiar with the scenario you describe, and it always puzzled me until I heard the psychological explanation.

Making plans, or even agreeing to them, is difficult for pwBPD. They have no sense of self, therefore nothing within them which gives them an indication of what it is that they actually want. When they're in a compliant mood (usually in the absence of stress), they are likely to agree to whatever plan you present to them. When their mood shifts a couple of days later, and they suddenly realise that they now don't want to participate, they begin to resent you and start to blame you for "controlling" them and "forcing" them into things they "never" wanted to do.

In the case of the going to the airport at 4AM scenario, there's also the added layer of pwBPD not feeling worthy enough of your acts of kindness; plus a feeling of obligation because they can't fathom that people do things for other people without expecting anything in return. Relationships are a transactional, zero-sum game in their minds.

These patterns mostly emanate from childhood enmeshment with an unreliable caretaker, and the ingrained pattern that they "need to go along to get along". The self is constantly suppressed and never truly develops – and without a self, there's no connecting to other people, either.

Not much use now perhaps, but the psychiatrist on the podcast said that if you ever find yourself dealing with someone like that again – might be a partner or a work colleague – the only good way to handle is to present the situation as follows: "I'd like to go with you to XYZ. You don't have to tell me now whether you want to go, just think about it for a few days and get back to me when you know." Then ask them again a couple of days later. Their answer is likely to come from a more balanced place then – and if it doesn't, at least they can't claim that you forced them into something they didn't want.

(Mind, I learnt of this technique way too late – after the relationship had ended.)

She was a procrastinator and was fairly lazy.  I can get in these modes too.  I told her not to beat herself up about it.  If she was too lazy to shower, just tell me, I didn't really care.  I told her she can be lazy in finding work, and lazy with her friends, but please don't be lazy about love.  That was the biggest sin in my mind, and that's where she was the most indolent of all.

Wholeheartedly agree. I felt the same way.

[Ad Meliora]

Thanks for clearing some of that up Sappho, sounds like a good podcast with some helpful info. 

My ex certainly didn't have a good sense of self as evidenced by all the behaviors (similar to your BPDx).  It seemed to me in hindsight she was trying to take mine, or wanted mine.  Also, whenever I exerted my sense of self or demonstrated self-awareness she would become resentful and the stress induced monster would emerge.  What do people call it, "Mr. Hyde"? Idk.  She would vacillate between a happy-go-lucky girl with the emotional maturity of someone aged between 9-17 yrs to a vindictive woman of her age hell-bent on undermining me or putting me down.  What a rollercoaster it was.

Not much use now perhaps, but the psychiatrist on the podcast said that if you ever find yourself dealing with someone like that again – might be a partner or a work colleague – the only good way to handle is to present the situation as follows: "I'd like to go with you to XYZ. You don't have to tell me now whether you want to go, just think about it for a few days and get back to me when you know." Then ask them again a couple of days later. Their answer is likely to come from a more balanced place then – and if it doesn't, at least they can't claim that you forced them into something they didn't want.

I started doing something very similar to this, with limited success.  I basically stopped "planning" in the end.  She knew I was a planner, as in I am an adult and want my time respected as I'm willing to respect others.  I would ask what she would want to do or was going to do and would suggest we do that together.  By the time the event would happen, though, maybe neither of us really wanted to do it, but she would often agree to move forward because it was something she originally wanted to do.  It just gets to be really hard to do anything without problems arising.

Here's one example, and this was about a month from the end. 

She had talked a lot about doing landscaping in her back yard, and I had said repeatedly I would help her.  I had a side gardening business at the time and was (am) a Master Gardener, so it was no sweat (not literally--landscaping is hard work).  Anyway, I had worked up sketches and plans and she basically pushed them aside.  She had said earlier in 2020 she wanted yard work done by July so she could enjoy the summer.  Fine.  It was approaching mid-June and things kept getting pushed back, always not interested, too lazy to help, whatever.  I said I'll bring a truck full of sod, plants, and soil and show up Wednesday morning and asked if that sounded good.  She said yes (on Monday night).  I said I would pay for it as she wasn't working and I could do most of the work, etc...

I get there Wednesday mid-morning after getting materials at a busy commercial nursery and she was surprised I actually showed up.  She told me her friend B. called and they had scheduled a tee-time (she loved golfing) at noon and that she was going to do that.  However surprised and disappointed I was at the time, it wasn't really completely a surprise by this point.  I asked if she was willing to help for an hour before she went and played with her friend, and she did.

So even when it was her idea, benefitting her at no cost, and something she expressly wanted, if she got a better offer the day of from her friends or family--I was out.

[Sappho11]

Thanks for clearing some of that up Sappho, sounds like a good podcast with some helpful info.  

 My ex certainly didn't have a good sense of self as evidenced by all the behaviors (similar to your BPDx).  It seemed to me in hindsight she was trying to take mine, or wanted mine. Also, whenever I exerted my sense of self or demonstrated self-awareness she would become resentful and the stress induced monster would emerge.  What do people call it, "Mr. Hyde"? Idk.  She would vacillate between a happy-go-lucky girl with the emotional maturity of someone aged between 9-17 yrs to a vindictive woman of her age hell-bent on undermining me or putting me down.  What a rollercoaster it was.

God, you might as well have described my ex. It still baffles me to no end how no matter the gender, age, sexual orientation, familial, economic or cultural background, these people all seem to operate on one and the same script. Really shows that it is the disorder acting out, not them (because "they" don't actually exist).

I started doing something very similar to this, with limited success.  I basically stopped "planning" in the end.  She knew I was a planner, as in I am an adult and want my time respected as I'm willing to respect others.  I would ask what she would want to do or was going to do and would suggest we do that together.  By the time the event would happen, though, maybe neither of us really wanted to do it, but she would often agree to move forward because it was something she originally wanted to do.  It just gets to be really hard to do anything without problems arising.

Here's one example, and this was about a month from the end.  

She had talked a lot about doing landscaping in her back yard, and I had said repeatedly I would help her.  I had a side gardening business at the time and was (am) a Master Gardener, so it was no sweat (not literally--landscaping is hard work).  Anyway, I had worked up sketches and plans and she basically pushed them aside.  She had said earlier in 2020 she wanted yard work done by July so she could enjoy the summer.  Fine.  It was approaching mid-June and things kept getting pushed back, always not interested, too lazy to help, whatever.  I said I'll bring a truck full of sod, plants, and soil and show up Wednesday morning and asked if that sounded good.  She said yes (on Monday night).  I said I would pay for it as she wasn't working and I could do most of the work, etc...

I get there Wednesday mid-morning after getting materials at a busy commercial nursery and she was surprised I actually showed up.  She told me her friend B. called and they had scheduled a tee-time (she loved golfing) at noon and that she was going to do that.  However surprised and disappointed I was at the time, it wasn't really completely a surprise by this point.  I asked if she was willing to help for an hour before she went and played with her friend, and she did.

So even when it was her idea, benefitting her at no cost, and something she expressly wanted, if she got a better offer the day of from her friends or family--I was out.

This whole story had me shaking my head at the computer. I'm so, so sorry to hear you had to go through this. What abominable behaviour from your ex! How on Earth do they reconcile this rotten behaviour with themselves? It never ceases to amaze.

I'd like to reaffirm my point that I'd like to see a psychological equivalent of the sex offenders registry – a PD registry, if you will. Honestly, with all the damage they cause, these people just need to be kept far away from society.

[Ad Meliora]

I'd like to reaffirm my point that I'd like to see a psychological equivalent of the sex offenders registry – a PD registry, if you will. Honestly, with all the damage they cause, these people just need to be kept far away from society.

 .  I'm chuckling and smiling at this, not because it's funny, but actually a good idea.  A warning label at least would be helpful.  I don't know how that would work since it seems like the great majority of the BPDex's don't want to talk to anyone professionally.  Mine didn't even want to talk about our feelings, of course a  .  How would you ever get them evaluated?

It just seems that with the positive traits my ex has, it will be just a matter of time before someone else accidentally steps into that quicksand and the cycle will repeat.  I wonder about their endgame, our BPDx's.  What's really in it for them?  I suppose there is no endgame:  Golf>Gardening it wins that moment of that day;  Removing Rubbish<Taking Nap so don't you dare ask me to do it or I will feel immensely put upon at that moment and text my girlfriend how awful life is. ( , by the way).  IDK, it probably just won't make sense to us Nons.  I just wonder how she held down jobs, etc... but honestly I don't know the whole story there.  Seems like superficial and distanced relationships were easier to maintain.  The romantic partner is going to be around more, ask tough questions, induce stress, and out pops the monster.