Saving and resentment

[Ozzie101]

Upon advice, I’m starting a new thread to delve a bit into my husband’s expectations that I fix problems for him, my reactions, and how to make improvements.

A recent example:
His ophthalmologist’s office was being very slow about sending him his prescription so he could order new contacts (he orders online because it’s significantly cheaper then going through their office). They couldn’t email it so we’re sending it snail mail but it still wasn’t here.
H: They’re doing this on purpose. They’re trying to make it difficult.
Me: Non-committal “hmm” kind of noise as I’m doing something else.
H: I’ve been complaining about this for days and you still haven’t offered to get your dad to call them.
M: My dad? (He’s an ophthalmologist in a different town.)
H: yes! Use your resources!
M: what do you think he’d be able to do?
H: he could call them and tell them to send it.
M: He doesn’t work with it for them. You think he could do that?
H: He could at least tell me why they won’t send it.
M: I’m confused. Why would he know that?
H: It’s a medical problem.
M: Oh. Because it sounds to me like an administrative problem. I don’t see how he would have insight into how a big clinic like that is run (he is a one-man show in a small town).
H: You just don’t want to ask him.
M: I’m just trying to understand what it is you’re wanting that he can do.
H: No. you’re just afraid I’m going to blame him for things.
M: I didn’t really think about that. I just don’t see how he can really help.
H: I know the prescription. He could just write me one.
M: He can’t do that unless he examines you. It will probably be quicker to get it from their office. I know this is weighing on you and I’m sorry I can’t be more help. I have a couple of things I need to finish with work now.
H: Of course. Because work is more important.
M: It’s more important than continuing this conversation right now. I’ll think about it more when I finish.
H grumbles and makes passive-aggressive comments.
The prescription was in that day’s mail.

Thinking about it, though, I see that much of the time, he doesn’t seem to be asking me or anyone else to fix things. Rather, he wants to place blame and rant about the problems others have caused him.
For instance, he got stuck in bad traffic coming back from out of town. He called and started blasting a former coworker of mine who writes a traffic column. “He’s a worthless idiot. Everyone there is. They all treated you horribly. But you think they’re perfect and you’ll defend them, not me.” Or, when stressed at his new job: “This is your parents’ friends fault because they canned me, but your parents are still friends with them. This affects you, too! You should be hurt and angry and tell them that!”

And so on…

[BigOof]

Have you tried encouraging him in unreasonable blaming to the point where the outcome is so bad he has to change his behavior? Letting someone hit rock bottom is sometimes the best thing to do. Then you'll have an example you can always use to motivate behavior change.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re a heck of a lot more patient than me. I would not have participated in that conversation as long.

After the “trying to make it difficult” comment, I might have asked,
“Why not call them and ask when it was put in the mail?”

[GaGrl]

I agree with Cat. I would have exited that conversation much sooner.

It would be interesting to have a couple of transcribed conversations like this for a couples therapist to work with -- both in terms of his neediness for help and in terms of your staying with the illogic of the conversation.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m very good with the “Not my problem” response after having been through the wood chipper trying to help in the past.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you for your input. I can definitely see I have work to do when it comes to getting out early. I haven’t found that effective way of doing it yet, I’m afraid.

(In this case, the “why not call and ask when they mailed it?” had already been answered. He had called that day.)

Looking back, I could have said something like “That must be frustrating. The mail has been kind of slow lately. Hopefully it will get here soon. I need to go take care of a couple of things for work. Love ya!”

[ForeverDad]

It is so hard to exit the appeasing or passive frame of mind, part of the reason is that it's in our nature to be reasonable people.  It's part of our personality and learned behavior patterns.  We know how it fells to be dealt with callously or unreasonably and so we try to avoid doing that to others even when the venting is done to us.  So it reveals we need help with stronger boundaries for continuing a conversation and improved discernment and skills surely help.

In our cases it often comes down to us needing more than logic to deal with the emotional blaming.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, I definitely have work to do. Those caretaking, do everything possible to help tendencies that I always thought were good aren’t — or at least, they have flaws.

He seems to be on an “upswing” (streak of good days) lately, due in large part to his turning a corner with his new job. Of course, by “lately,” I mean the last couple of weeks. I know well enough that the next time something starts to cause him a lot of stress, he could go back to his pattern.

Currently, he seems a bit worried about Christmas and SS10’s reaction to it. But I’ll just see how that plays out.

[Cat Familiar]

You can save that *do everything possible to help* tendency for people who appreciate it.

[Ozzie101]

Good point! H is appreciative — until he next crisis or the next time he’s in a mood, which kind of negates whatever appreciation he showed.

[Couscous]

I think that a response along the lines of, ‘What? You mean you still haven’t received them? Un.be.lievable!’ could potentially nip a conversation like this in the bud.

I think the CALM technique could work really well for you. It works like magic with my kids, and can be used with adults too. In fact, I need to remember to use this with my non-H? I know I appreciate it when someone joins me in my outrage, so to speak. And I just so happen to be closely related to a few people who sound exactly like your H…

https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/parentingfamilydiversity/chapter/calm/

[I Am Redeemed]

I think you stay in the conversation so long because you believe that if you just hang in there and choose the right tool, you can avoid the dysregulation. That might be possible, sometimes. But, honestly, that is just an advanced version of walking on eggshells.

You don't have to steer every conversation to a place that is emotionally comfortable for him. I think you hang in a long time to see if you can get him to a place where you don't have to set a hard boundary. It's more for you than it is him. It's a way to manage your own distress because if he dysregulates hard and you have to set the ultimate boundary of leaving the house, that's stressful. It's avoidant behavior disguised as validation.

When you see the convo is going nowhere, cut it off. If you have to leave because of a dramatic blowup, do it. If that becomes too much stress for you to do over and over, talk to your therapist and make other plans.

[GaGrl]

I think IAR is on the right track. If you think you can just stay with him until he calms, then you've done your job.

But it's taking more and more of your emotional energy to do so. You are running out of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual reserves.

[Ozzie101]

Wow, IAR, that’s a very astute observation. As I think about it, your reading makes a lot of sense.

It’s true. When he gets upset, I try to gauge the H Level. Are we at a 1 or 2, which will blow over relatively quickly? A 5, which means I need to leave?

I have left a couple of times now and I don’t like doing it. I’d rather be in my own house. But, having done it, I know that it is, at times, necessary. I think part of my sticking around is that uncertainty and that hope. Is it really one of those times? Because I don’t want to overreact. By staying, however, I get more worn out and frustrated and drained.

It is a way of managing my own distress — because it is distressing and upsetting. He doesn’t have bear the dysregulations he used to and we’re not having the same levels of behavior. But I continue to have those feelings of anxiety and fear from previous experiences. My T says that takes time to heal. He’s aware of the lingering reactions and I know it bothers him (probably triggers his shame).

Anyway, clearly I have a lot of work left to do, but this is valuable in helping me clarify.

[formflier]

I don't disagree with anything written here...lots to consider.

I would add to the list.

Axioms:

1.  Anytime you can "agree" and completely "get on their side"...do it!  (again different than validating because I think in the eye prescription instance you can "agree" and "validate")

2.  Embrace and fully display befuddlement.  (Do what?  It sounds like you are saying you are unwilling to handle your own phone calls..but that can't possibly be right?  Can it?)

For 2...then be quiet and listen...the "look" starts with "befuddlement" and then move it to "exasperation".

Again..Important that you "own" the exasperation.  "Babe...maybe I need another cup of coffee so I can listen better..this sounds so whacky it can't possibly be right. Let's talk more after my cup of coffee."    (very important that when you take a break...you make sure it's a break)

Hopefully you end/leave/redirect the conversation way before "you just don't want to call your Dad..."

Own and agree as well.  "Your 100% right..I'm not calling my Dad about this matter."  "Have a good day...I'm sure you will call them and solve this."  (end it...absolutely no more, even if this means driving away)

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

That makes a lot of sense, FF. I’ll read this several times so I can internalize and be ready for next time.

[formflier]

Just re-scanned this thread and I have another idea for you to "own".

It could be a lot simpler to be honest and own that you don't have time for this...then let him deal with it...freak out..do whatever.

"Hey babe...I don't have time to help right now with your administrative responsibilities.  Hang in there...I think you can solve this with a phone call."  (then exit)   

The less words the better.  Just hand it back to him.

Best,

FF

[Couscous]

I think IAR is on to something. I know how hard it is to walk away when it’s clear the conversation is going nowhere and that the only kind of validation the pwBPD will accept is complete acceptance of their point of view.

In my case with my brother, it wasn’t enough even to agree that he had been wronged, but rather, he seemed to want me to take action against the people who had wronged him. Whenever he would get dysregulated, his only emotion regulation strategy was to find someone to pin the blame on and then try to attempt to convince me to take action against that person, such as cutting my father or sister out of my life. I finally had to draw a very firm boundary and told him that I was no longer willing to engage in these conversations at all.

[Ozzie101]

That’s very much like what my H dies (or has done), Couscous. Validation isn’t enough. I have to match his emotional level and take action on his behalf. I haven’t caved on taking action in about 3 years, but even when I did, it still wasn’t enough. Because, really, what he saw as the problem wasn’t the problem.

[Couscous]

Exactly! Those external things are not the problem. It’s their lack of self-soothing skills combined with their cognitive inflexibility that is the problem.

My 4 yo son has issues with getting stuck on thoughts that no amount of validation, distraction, exercise or co-regulation can help dislodge, and it bothers me a lot. I am beginning to wonder if my Inner Critic kicks into high gear and starts beating me up for ‘failing’ to make it all better.