Embracing narcissism in the quest for a healthy self

[Cat Familiar]

So many of us here are *overfunctioning* in our relationships with our BPD loved ones. We try to solve their problems, fill them up with love, support their endless void of need, behave as if we have no need for validation or assistance, be ready with apologies, ignore poor treatment, etc.

In essence, we behave as if our personal boundaries were extraneous and unnecessary.

How did we get to this point? For many of us, it was growing up with a parent who had a personality disorder. We were trained to be people pleasers, in order to not set off the adult who should have been the one looking out for our emotional development as children.

In other cases, it was the slow wearing away of resistance, feeling a sense of futility, that it was better to accede to demands than to advocate for ourselves.

We often have felt that taking care of our own needs and wants is *selfish* and we should always put our partner’s needs ahead of our own.

I’m challenging this. Often we say here, like on an airplane, we are told to put on our seat belts first before we try to assist our fellow passengers. Perhaps it’s time to try being more *self centered*.

It’s likely that most of us could go a long ways in that direction and still not even get to a balanced place where we are affording ourselves the love and respect we are giving our loved ones.

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[Notwendy]

I agree, I know my upbringing with BPD mom and also enabling father that influenced me to "people please". A word of warning to the nons on this board. There's a lot of focus on the pwBPD's behavior and concern about the impact on children. That is an important concern but both parents are role models. If one parent is enabling and people pleasing- this influences children as well. The dynamics between both parents are examples of relationships and influence the child's relationships when they are older, because these dynamics are familiar to them.

There is such a thing as "healthy narcissism". I recall when my kids were little and in morning preschool. I would spend that time running errands and tidying the house. Some of the other moms would use some of that time for themselves-go work out or do something fun. These were non disordered people. I wondered why I didn't do that? Well nothing stopped me. I am sure they did the tidy up as well- but they carved out some time for themselves. I didn't even think I could do that, it wasn't part of how I grew up.

For my father, it was the second one. I recall he did put up some resistance. I recall some huge fights and arguments between my parents and that's when he probably did. But the reactions from my very disordered mother were extreme. I think he just eventually decided to give in to her requests to avoid them. I don't know if he did get a moment to himself, it seemed she wanted him for something a lot.

The impression I had growing up was that she was the one with the problem and he was the normal one, the victim of her behavior. But really? He earned the income- she was financially dependent on him and he also did a lot of the errands and care in the home. It would seem he was more able to manage that she is. So, why did he concede to her will?

I had two role models for how to act as an adult. BPD mom's behaviors were so extreme I knew I didn't want to act like her. To me, Dad was the "normal one". Co dependency was my "normal", until I saw the effects of this as an adult and realized I needed to work on that.

So as to Cat's post- yes a healthy sense of caring for self is important- and if one has children, it's also important to role model this for them. While one parent may appear more dysfunctional - it's possible that both are role modeling dysfunctional dynamics. Self care for you is setting an example!

[Ray2017]

Delurking to say that this hit a chord with me.  Have been a card carrying member of people-pleasing/putting everyone else first/being as selfless as possible (learned mostly from my dad, who most definitely did not have a PD, but he did grow up with a narcissist father).  However, I'm still trying to get my focus off my uBPDh and more onto myself, both in growing as a person, but also as self-care to get off the rollercoaster.  I've been reading "The Language of Letting Go" daily, and today's entry regarding self care/boundaries was in line with this thread: "sometimes to reach the middle ground of balance, I need to explore the peaks and valleys.  Sometimes, the only way I can extricate myself from a valley is to jump high enough to land on a peak, and then slowly ease myself down".  For me, doing anything for myself, especially when choosing that over helping someone else, feels like I'm turning into a narcissist.  Perhaps sitting on that peak, or being more self-centered like Cat says, it will start to feel more normal, or I'll eventually find a middle ground that I'm comfortable with.  I appreciate what you said, NotWendy, about modeling this behavior for my kids.  Makes it seem even a bit less selfish already.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Cat,

I've been contemplating on the things you said in your post. I can say that I am the person you mentioned in all of paragraphs, using all those techniques to survive growing up with a uBPDm. I have never been able to really put my dad into any category. Sometimes I would think there were N traits, but really it was my mom who was the queen and witch per the descriptions in Understanding the Borderline Mother. My dad had empathy, at least in his later years after he divorced my mom. During my growing up years, my uBPDm and our dad were very physically abusive (my mom was verbally abusive too), both to each other and to us kids. While I could never put a finger on who he was, I certainly unknowingly learned that to verbally question a male brought physical abuse, and that's something I carried into my dysfunctional marriage. Took a long time to recognize some of those internal messages.

Self care didn't become a part of my life until I got into T, and even then it was few years down the road before I could be a bit more consistent with it. My overfunctioning was a way to control the outcome and to achieve a sense of self satisfaction in meeting other's needs, not understanding how I played right into dysfunction by enabling others and not having them take responsibility.

These are certainly steps of growth and learning to see our own patterns, separate from the patterns of those we are/were in an unhealthy relationship with. As we practice self care, I believe we will see healthier habits begin to form. The key is to not abandon the steps forward when someone complains about our 'selfishness.'

Wools

[mitten]

Sometimes I wonder if I "overfunction" in my relationship with my uBPDw because they are so bad at keeping house and staying organized that I just want to see it get done, and I can't rely completely on them.  Sometimes I also want to prove to myself that I could parent alone if need be...

One really simple thing I started doing after I learned about BPD was saying "I want" more.  I realized that I definitely had problems asserting my needs and wants.  I started saying, "I want to go for a hike this weekend",  "I want to watch a movie", "I want to have steak for dinner".  These are all things that can include my uBPDw in, but it simply felt great to communicate and verbalize what I wanted for once.  Yes, it felt selfish at first, but wow the power it made me feel.  Also, I think my wife respected me a little more for asserting myself, rather than just saying "whatever you want we can have for dinner".  Try it! 

[Cat Familiar]

Y’all made some great points on this thread.  

Notwendy mentioned the need for nons to be a healthy role model for their children. Often when living with an emotionally reactive BPD partner, it’s easier (in the short run) to try to accommodate their demands, in order not to set them off into an emotional explosion.

But what are we doing when we do that?

We are training our partners to believe that they can get what they want by holding us emotional hostage, fearing their wrath.

And what does this teach children? Certainly neither parent is serving as a good role model and having either of these coping mechanisms can ultimately lead to children having dysfunctional romantic relationships as adults.

[Cat Familiar]

Ray2017 recalled learning to be selfless from her father and now realizes that she needs to focus less on her husband and more on her self, for both self care as well as personal growth.

I remember being so over-absorbed with my previous BPD husband and worrying about what trouble he’d get into next. While it was a legitimate concern, it also kept me from knowing who I was and what I wanted. Typically how I felt was a mixture of terror thinking that he was going to do something ill-advised or reckless, and a sense of superiority knowing that I wasn’t the one instigating all the crises that we were dealing with.

When I divorced him and began counseling, I remember my counselor saying, “We’ve got to build you a self.”

That struck me as an odd concept, but in retrospect, I realized that I had always behaved in an accommodating way to first, my BPD mother, then later, my BPD husband. I had never really explored who I was independently of someone in my life with BPD.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Wools,
My dad was a cipher too. I never did figure out what was going on with him. I developed my extreme rationality from his influence, for which I’m very grateful. Sadly, after living with my mother for decades, he retreated into a more or less silent place where he seemingly just endured. Perhaps he was happy. I don’t know, but it was definitely a strategy to get away from my mother’s irrationality and angry outbursts.

Like your mother, mine alternated between queen and witch. Occasionally she’d show her vulnerable side. Though she wanted to be the *director* of my life, I knew she loved me, maybe not for who I am, but nevertheless…

I’m so sorry you endured physical abuse from both your parents. I didn’t, at least not more than once or twice. I don’t think either of them had the stomach for it and I probably was inclined to be even more disobedient afterwards.

You bring up a very important point about verbally questioning a man being potentially dangerous to a woman. Unfortunately this stems from a long cultural tradition of *male supremacy* and unfortunately there are still remnants of that way of thinking, and perhaps in some segments of the population, this is becoming more dominant once again.

I’d like to think that most people these days are accepting that women deserve to fully participate in all aspects of our culture, but still there are reasons due to size and strength where not all are equal. This deserves a discussion of it’s own, however regarding relationships, there tends to be a size differential between genders and it’s really unfortunate when men use that to their advantage. On the other hand, perhaps women tend to defer to men as a default mode, either through being trained to do that in their families of origin, or through fear. Either way, not being able to be an equal partner in a relationship is detrimental.

[Cat Familiar]

Taking over for deficits is a great point, mitten. It’s really a catch22 when your partner is unskilled or unwilling to do household chores or be organized. Again, it’s a trap if the more you do, the less they do, and undoubtedly breeds resentment.

I totally get it. Thankfully when my husband and I got together, I insisted we build him a separate studio on the property. I’d been living alone for a while and I knew I’d be annoyed by having someone else’s disorder clutter up my space. We expanded the little house I’d built, adding a large living room and kitchen and dining areas. These are communal spaces, while the rest of my house is my own, and stays neat and tidy.

My husband’s studio is a   disaster. There are boxes of stuff everywhere and no dust bunny is unwelcome.

He’s asked me to help him organize things there as it’s begun to drive him crazy.    I do have pretty good organizational skills but I realize what a minefield I’m stepping into. Last year when he was at his wit’s end, I organized his closets, so he knows I’m good at this. Surprisingly he seems to have been able to maintain order there, so I think there’s hope. After all it’s over 1000 square feet he has to work with, we built him a 400 square foot storage space under the garage a couple of years ago, he has room in the garage and the basement….and still he acquires more stuff.

There’s the black and white thinking he has that “I’ll never be able to get all this organized.” I’d be pretty depressed if I saw things that way. So I have been giving him little tasks: organize the top of this table, go through that drawer, etc. Even so, it has been overwhelming for him.

I told him, it’s not all about the stuff, it’s the emotion behind it.

I’ve helped a few people organize their things (lucky me) and most have confessed that they have all this stuff because they never have felt loved as a child.

Good for you mitten about asserting your own wants  

And you’ve touched on an important issue. We lessen our status with our BPD loved ones when we over-cater to their whims. They respect us so much more when we assert our wants and needs!

[Destiny 37]

Sometimes I wonder if I "overfunction" in my relationship with my uBPDw because they are so bad at keeping house and staying organized that I just want to see it get done, and I can't rely completely on them.  Sometimes I also want to prove to myself that I could parent alone if need be...

One really simple thing I started doing after I learned about BPD was saying "I want" more.  I realized that I definitely had problems asserting my needs and wants.  I started saying, "I want to go for a hike this weekend",  "I want to watch a movie", "I want to have steak for dinner".  These are all things that can include my uBPDw in, but it simply felt great to communicate and verbalize what I wanted for once.  Yes, it felt selfish at first, but wow the power it made me feel.  Also, I think my wife respected me a little more for asserting myself, rather than just saying "whatever you want we can have for dinner".  Try it!  

I definitely relate to what you’ve said. We take so much on and then we start to crack ourselves.

I normally do all I can to avoid outbursts and I’ve just decided enough is enough. I’ve even told him recently I won’t pretend I’m not a person with feelings just to avoid his reactions.

I am quite proud of my though as I started my own business when lockdown hit. It’s been a rough few years and he became involved in my business. He did a lot of work which woild of cost a lot of money to pay a professional for. Things like my website. I told him I was closing one part of my business and may close the other part I hadn’t decided. He tried to take over and say no to closing the second part but I remained firm. Told him I’ve had no time to recuperate even when my mental health was at it’s worse. I still had to keep going and now I’m deciding what I want for my future and this is my decision not his.

I could tell he wasn’t overly happy as he likes things his own way but I’m sticking to my guns. It will be my choice and my choice alone should I choose to continue as it is something I started first by myself.

So baby steps for me but I’ve made it clear I’m not being pushed into anything I don’t want to do anymore.