Painting daughter black?

[Dancingbear]

My pwubpd has been so harsh to our 15yo daughter. It seems to come in waves. Yes she's a big surly teenager and her room is often a big mess and she's a bit of a slacker etc but she's our child and underneath all that she's a kind sensitive funny girl.

Since doing relationship counselling he's been attempting to be less hostile towards me and I have a horrible feeling she's become an outlet for that side of him

Last night she was in tears - she said he's not said a single kind or friendly word to her all week. Everything has just been hostile and confrontational.

He's incredibly black and white about her - and seems to have become actually obsessed with her inability to keep her room tidy etc and is so relentlessly focused on it. He just seems to see that she's not doing anything right and is entirely selfish. It's heartbreaking

I tried to talk to him this morning- I barely said anything, tried to validate how he was feeling, tried to give another perspective but he jumped down my throat and accuse me of not backing him up and telling him he's wrong. And he's had a stressful week and I've just made him feel worse.

I think this may really be the final straw for me. I don't want this to mess her up and it's making me feel like a terrible mum for not being able to stop it

[formflier]

I might encourage you to approach this not so much as talking about "it"...but opening the door for him to share whatever.

So perhaps "Hey babe...I'm interested in understanding how you chose your approach to our daughter."

Then be quiet..lots of listening, maybe some reflective answers to make sure you "have it right".  Zero judgment..just see if you can get the conversation going.

Yes...at some point you will have to address this head on, keeping in mind that it's likely not all on him...

That being said, he is the adult and she is the child, therefore he should possess the ability to alter his approach much easier than she can.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Dancingbear]

I might encourage you to approach this not so much as talking about "it"...but opening the door for him to share whatever.

So perhaps "Hey babe...I'm interested in understanding how you chose your approach to our daughter."

Then be quiet..lots of listening, maybe some reflective answers to make sure you "have it right".  Zero judgment..just see if you can get the conversation going.

Yes...at some point you will have to address this head on, keeping in mind that it's likely not all on him...

That being said, he is the adult and she is the child, therefore he should possess the ability to alter his approach much easier than she can.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

Thanks for the thoughts. I totally hear what your saying. I've actually used this approach many times and it's been discussed loads. Have empathised and validated how frustrating it can be to deal with the teenage stuff. We talked about it multiple sessions in rc and he agreed with the therapist about how so much of this is standard stuff and while it may be infuriating it's not worth sacrificing the relationship over.

My daughter even fully understands the things he's annoyed about but it's when he goes long periods with nothing but cold, angry and hostile comments from him that she really struggles.

It's tricky to know how to help the situation for either of them   

[Notwendy]

One aspect of BPD is difficulty managing uncomfortable feelings. One way is to project them on to someone or something else. Is his behavior towards you and improvement or is he now just projecting on to your D?

Teen age behavior is a challenge sometimes for even the most emotionally stable adult. But who is the child here? Is it the teen's fault?

One thing to consider is your limit of tolerance for his behavior and what is the boundary for you.

[BigOof]

What's the difference between adolescence and BPD? Aren't they both emotionally dysregulated?

Sounds like you have two children in the house. I'd think of the problem this way. How do you deal with teenagers who are fighting and bullying?

[formflier]

So...what does he say when he addresses his choice to be cold, distant, critical (etc etc)?

Does he report a better or worse relationship?

Since it would appear empathy and validation have been used in massive quantities, perhaps lessen that and try other tactics.  Pragmatism is key.

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

Is she is biological child/legal stepdaughter? Or did your relationship begin later?

[ForeverDad]

Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle?  You seem to be trapped in the middle of a nearly impossible task.

You're already working with dad in therapy or counseling.  How about your daughter?  Does she have a counselor?  How much effort do you put into validating her when her dad is invalidating or whatever?

It reminds me of a quote from a book written over 35 years ago, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Is yours a broken home?  Can solutions be found while holding the family together?

[Dancingbear]

One aspect of BPD is difficulty managing uncomfortable feelings. One way is to project them on to someone or something else. Is his behavior towards you and improvement or is he now just projecting on to your D?

Teen age behavior is a challenge sometimes for even the most emotionally stable adult. But who is the child here? Is it the teen's fault?

One thing to consider is your limit of tolerance for his behavior and what is the boundary for you.

Yes it's like having 2 dysregulated teens. And as to whether his behaviour has improved towards me. Honestly yes and no. He no longer shouts and the "conversations" are shorter but unfortunately it's the same sh*t with different packaging- still lots of blame / word salad / emotional manipulation etc

He's backed offa bit after me saying something but bad vibes are now brewing- sigh

[Dancingbear]

So...what does he say when he addresses his choice to be cold, distant, critical (etc etc)?

Does he report a better or worse relationship?

Since it would appear empathy and validation have been used in massive quantities, perhaps lessen that and try other tactics.  Pragmatism is key.

Best,

FF

Yeah he will just refuse to take responsibility for the situation. But you're right I need to dial back the empathy and have the courage to tackle this differently

[Dancingbear]

Is she is biological child/legal stepdaughter? Or did your relationship begin later?

She's our child. Eldest of 3 daughters

[Dancingbear]

Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle?  You seem to be trapped in the middle of a nearly impossible task.

You're already working with dad in therapy or counseling.  How about your daughter?  Does she have a counselor?  How much effort do you put into validating her when her dad is invalidating or whatever?

It reminds me of a quote from a book written over 35 years ago, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Is yours a broken home?  Can solutions be found while holding the family together?

Yes I'm so aware that the time may come soon where I have to make big decisions for my kids sake. I validate my daughter loads and make sure she can talk to me. I remind her that her dad just struggles to contain his emotions sometimes and can get a bit stuck focusing on the negative. No counselling for her yet but that may be a smart idea thanks

[formflier]

Yeah he will just refuse to take responsibility for the situation. But you're right I need to dial back the empathy and have the courage to tackle this differently

Hey...any chance you can give us some "he said/she said" on how this conversation  went.

Did he actually say the words "I'm not responsible for my choices?"

Direct confrontation rarely works, although sometimes is called for.  Usually much better to gently ask questions that box a pwBPD in and then let them "solve" that themselves.

That's very general advice, the he said she said will help me focus solutions more specifically.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

He's backed offa bit after me saying something but bad vibes are now brewing- sigh

What did you say that resulted in him "backing off"? 

What do you imagine will happen when the bad vibes reach the tipping point?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I remind her that her dad just struggles to contain his emotions sometimes and can get a bit stuck focusing on the negative. 

Is it accurate to say that you are "apologizing" for his behavior or perhaps "explaining" his behavior?

I'm wondering if more general lessons that let her connect the dots...or not connect dots (totally up to her)...might be more effective.

"Oh babe...so frustrating when people get stuck focusing on the negative.  What do you think you will do about it?"

Then..lots of listening/active listening.

Do you see how it kinda says the same thing and it also focuses back on what she can control?

Best,

FF

[Dancingbear]

What do you imagine will happen when the bad vibes reach the tipping point?

Best,

FF

No longer need to imagine. Sadly I'm now feeling utterly drained and pretty broken so can't respond properly. Hopefully I can come back to this... I appreciate your responses x

[formflier]

There is no rush.  We are a "take it as you are able" kinda place.

Perhaps I didn't ask the question very clearly.

I'm asking about how long you think it will be until he dysregulates.  So talking about his tipping point...not yours (not at all that yours doesn't matter...)

Best,

FF