Sensitivity to expectations/opinions

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I haven't realized before how powerful this sensitivity is for W and maybe for many BPD sufferers.

One recent example W talked about is our living arrangements, she said: "Your family has always tried to pressure us into buying an apartment or house instead of renting".

We rent our apartment and my dad has talked about the economic benefits of buying rather than renting. I have taken his advice into consideration and I get it, but I also have my own thoughts about this subject. My W has always been hesitant to taking loans, if she would have been eager to buy, we probably would have. I have never felt pressured to buy and my dad has not been upset with us for not following his advice. My brother and sister has followed his advice though.

There could of course be lots of things at play here, she might be jealous of other women if their partners "have set up a permanent household for their family" (her words - the gentleman perspective). She might be scared of the tough world of adulthood that involves buying a place to live. She might be afraid to let other people down by following her own wants and needs. ETC.


Anyway, it feels like a disordered perspective that can cause damage. Not least in the not so unusual example of pwbpd seeing other people as abusive. They perceive that there is some sort of abuse at play - someone trying to control them for example. But in reality it's just people sharing opinions and giving advice. My dad is actually literally  quite careful not to pressure me into things and he tends to support my decision no matter what.

Maybe this has to do with the "weak sense of self" that is often mentioned as a symptom of BPD.

Would love to hear others perspective on this.

[15years]

I haven't realized before how powerful this sensitivity is for W and maybe for many BPD sufferers.

One recent example W talked about is our living arrangements, she said: "Your family has always tried to pressure us into buying an apartment or house instead of renting".

We rent our apartment and my dad has talked about the economic benefits of buying rather than renting. I have taken his advice into consideration and I get it, but I also have my own thoughts about this subject. My W has always been hesitant to taking loans, if she would have been eager to buy, we probably would have. I have never felt pressured to buy and my dad has not been upset with us for not following his advice. My brother and sister has followed his advice though.

There could of course be lots of things at play here, she might be jealous of other women if their partners "have set up a permanent household for their family" (her words - the gentleman perspective). She might be scared of the tough world of adulthood that involves buying a place to live. She might be afraid to let other people down by following her own wants and needs. ETC.


Anyway, it feels like a disordered perspective that can cause damage. Not least in the not so unusual example of pwbpd seeing other people as abusive. They perceive that there is some sort of abuse at play - someone trying to control them for example. But in reality it's just people sharing opinions and giving advice. My dad is actually literally  quite careful not to pressure me into things and he tends to support my decision no matter what.

Maybe this has to do with the "weak sense of self" that is often mentioned as a symptom of BPD.

Would love to hear others perspective on this.

[Manic Miner]

There could of course be lots of things at play here, she might be jealous of other women if their partners "have set up a permanent household for their family" (her words - the gentleman perspective).

Do you also get those comparisons from her, like - look at him, he's a true gentleman, he actually cares for his family and his W. He did this or that. Ofc, you, as her husband, don't have that. :-) And pwBPD is referring to people they usually know at superficial level.

Anyway, it feels like a disordered perspective that can cause damage. Not least in the not so unusual example of pwbpd seeing other people as abusive. They perceive that there is some sort of abuse at play - someone trying to control them for example. But in reality it's just people sharing opinions and giving advice.

Oh, for sure. The kindest people to pwBPD are usually the one that will take the most blame at some point in the future. What is at play is, pwBPD tends to hold these people dearly, closely, depending on them at first - until they do something "bad" and start to annoy and appear as villains. Then pwBPD either throws them away marked as "inherently bad" or try to bring them back again, repeating the cycle. Eventually, those used-to-be-kind people just lose patience, step back or some fight appears.

Maybe this has to do with the "weak sense of self" that is often mentioned as a symptom of BPD.

I have found a mini-journal, a small notes of my W she left on the shelf. In it she is literally reminding herself who she is, like "I'm not only a mother", "I have a right to feel good by myself", "I have good friends x and y", "my friend z is not good for me anymore", "Whenever I find him sweet I should remember all bad things he did, citing 3 random stuff" - that's me.

No wonder much of the things I have done lately didn't seem to work. But I wasn't angry when I found this. I felt very sad for her. It must be frightening and terrible to feel like that. Where you must make your own notes to remind yourself of who you are and what you should or shouldn't do.

[Notwendy]

The topic of giving unwanted advice has been discussed in the context of co-dependency work.

Codependency may appear to the one who is doing such "helpful" things as a good thing to do, they feel that they are helping, but it is perceived by the recipient as controlling and even invalidating.

Giving advice isn't always being co-dependent. People do it all the time for different reasons but sometimes it is being co-dependent/enabling/controlling.

In your father's case, I think he's being parental. It's him being a Dad. Parents often give advice to their children, however, as the child becomes an adult, this generally changes a bit. Sometimes continuing to give advice when they don't ask for it isn't received well.

The conclusion of the discussions has been this: Only offer advice when asked for it.

Giving unasked for advice goes over a boundary- what is your business, what isn't your business. Someone else's financial decisions are not anyone else's business.

I think we can give parents some slack on this- they are just doing what parents do. If your Dad gives you advice, you know his intentions are good. You say "thanks Dad" and then make your own decision.

Your wife hears something different. To her, it's invalidating.  She hears " you incompetent fool, you don't know what to do with money, I know better than you".

With my BPD mother, she hears a lot of things as invalidating even when not intended to be. So she has become very sensitive to any kind of advice- unless she asks for it specifically.

It was after this discussion on advice that I saw this. She was having some work done on her house. I had recently had some work done on mine. I forgot to cover a shelf and afterwards, there was construction dust on it and everything in it. I had to take everything off the shelves and clean them. I recall wishing I had remembered to cover it, and so tried to warn BPD mother. The intent was to tell her what I wished I had remembered to do.

So, I casually said " better cover that shelf before the workmen come". Now, I didn't mean it literally- she's a small elderly woman who would have asked the workmen to do that. This was implied. Her reaction to this was to dysregulate, and rage at me "how dare you tell me to climb up that bookshelf" and how can you expect me to do this and a whole lot of other things that just sounded like they came out of the blue.

But this unrequested advice had invalidated her. What she heard was "you are so stupid you don't know to cover the shelf".

Another occasion, we were supposed to have dinner with some of her relatives. She decided at the last minute to not come. I was disappointed as they were looking forward to it. I said " they will be disappointed to not see you". Her reply was " I know that. I'm not stupid, you are".

I don't suggest walking on eggshells, but before you offer advice not asked for- think about it first. If you get an oversensitive response, you know that it wasn't taken the way you intended.

[livednlearned]

My pwBPD can be enraged by advice even when she asks for that advice.

She will even suggest a course of action (quit teaching) and when H goes along and seems agreeable, she becomes furious with him. “You think I’m a terrible teacher who can’t do my job.”

[15years]

Do you also get those comparisons from her, like - look at him, he's a true gentleman, he actually cares for his family and his W. He did this or that. Ofc, you, as her husband, don't have that. :-) And pwBPD is referring to people they usually know at superficial level.

From time to time, but more often she talks about how every man is abusive, like "I think person X is abusive", and in reality that's a very caring man. She somehow picks up on things and interpret them in a weird way.

But yes she sometimes mentions how other men are treating their SOs like princesses although they're trash and don't deserve it. Last fall she made me upload a picture of her on instagram and wanted me to write something romantic. I did and she was satisfied. I haven't uploaded much on instagram since.

"Whenever I find him sweet I should remember all bad things he did, citing 3 random stuff" - that's me.

This is a part of pwBPD that we have to live with if we want to be in a relationship with them, although it feels terrible that they view us like this.

[15years]

The topic of giving unwanted advice has been discussed in the context of co-dependency work.

I definitely get that advice can be upsetting. I ask for advice/other peoples opinions on this page almost daily and sometimes it can make me feel upset. Usually, the next day I have digested the information and can decide to what degree I want to consider the advice. Feeling upset for a while only made the experience more effective.

I don't suggest walking on eggshells, but before you offer advice not asked for- think about it first. If you get an oversensitive response, you know that it wasn't taken the way you intended.

I agree on this... and I also agree with livednlearned that advice asked for can be equally sensitive.


In the example of my dads opinion about buying vs. renting, I really don't remember him giving unwanted advice, it was more like a general discussion about the subject on a few occasions, involving more people than just me and my wife.

While giving advice to pwbpd is indeed a problem, I feel that this is a part of a broader issue, which is that they somehow misinterpret peoples intentions, or read bad intentions and bad feelings into other people.

One other example, when S6 was a toddler (1 or 2 yo), we were at my parents house and we were sitting on a blanket in the grass. My son seemed to fear stepping outside the blanket onto the grass. I don't remember it that clear but how I remember it is that my mom wanted to challenge him to step on the grass. My W on the other hand describes it like this (not literally but along these lines): "I could see in your moms eyes that she was angry about our son not stepping on the grass. She just had to succeed in making him step on the grass, otherwise she would have been furious". I think my mom really wanted him to step on the grass, but not because of anger. She was motivated to make him do it because she wanted to succeed in challenging him overcome his fear. I think my mom could have been more patient and calm (she tends to be a little hyperactive), but saying her eyes was radiating anger is far off from reality, and a very disordered interpretation of the event. This disordered interpretation is what I'm trying to understand. I think it can be damaging to people, because it feeds into the whole "no smoke without fire" thinking and can cause unnecessary rifts in relationships between people surrounding a pwbpd.

Thought about that? I'm only guessing here

[Notwendy]

I think projection is a big part of it. It's impossible to know what someone is thinking. I think you know your mother's intentions better because you grew up with her and know this is how she is. Your wife will interpret things through her own projections and emotions and if thinking is distorted, so are these. Often the projections say more about them than the person they are projecting on to.

Differences in child rearing between generations are common. In my parent's generation, formula was marketed towards women as the "better and modern" way to feed a baby. Now, it's changed to nursing them. So when I had my children, my MIL would say things to me like "that baby needs a bottle". I could have taken this in a negative way "she's telling me I am wrong" or "she's forcing a bottle on my baby" but I chose to see this in context of her world, the messages she heard when she had babies. In her world, I should be giving the baby this wonderful new formula marketed to her and her intentions were good. So instead, I smiled and then kept on nursing the baby.

We all perceive things through our own filter and I think BPD influences that.