The seductive, but dangerous “If only…”

[Cat Familiar]

I see so many new members come here with a mixture of alarm, hope, dismay, and fear, thinking that there must be a *magic strategy* to turn their relationship around, and return to the *Honeymoon Phase* when their partner was adoring, supportive, and appreciative.

I’m sorry to break the news, but there isn’t.

Our BPD loved ones have a multitude of sides to their personalities, and what we see at the beginning, and long for its return, is only one of the many parts they present to us and the world.

Once we make peace with ourselves that these people are complex and we can negotiate a way of returning to a more harmonious relationship by altering our behavioral responses to them, a pattern often emerges where we seek to change our partners’ behavior.

“If only, they would/wouldn’t do X…then things would be so much better.”

Granted there are some major real world consequences to whatever the X behavior might be. Substance abuse, infidelity, fiscal irresponsibility, domestic abuse are some of the big ticket items.

Smaller issues can also occupy the X behavior: complaining, criticizing, bad manners, thoughtlessness, argumentativeness, sloppiness, etc.

It’s easy to get lured into being solely focused upon these negative issues, and certainly there’s merit in protecting ourselves from harmful effects of our partner’s behavior.

That said, it’s easy to try to think how we can change them, forgetting that the only person we can change is ourselves. This is what I call the seductive but dangerous “If only…”

We all do it to some extent. Recently I caught myself wishing “If only my husband wouldn’t loudly emit the random F*word apropos of nothing at odd times.” It jars my calm equilibrium and causes me distress thinking that something is wrong. Usually when I’ve questioned him, he’s admitted to “beating himself up” over some issue he was processing in his internal dialog.

As much as I’d like to bring this to his attention, it’s done no good when I have. What I know now is that it’s best not to respond and learn not to get triggered. That is in my control. Controlling his verbal output is neither in my control, nor apparently in his either—probably a mild case of Tourette’s syndrome. (I doubt if he did this as an attorney when he presented a case in court, so there’s some ability to control himself, but apparently not the desire to do so.)

With some of the deleterious *big ticket items* your choice is to evaluate what you want in a relationship and your willingness to participate should that behavior continue. It’s certainly possible that if you decide that it is not what you want in a relationship, that your partner might decide that keeping you is more important than pursuing the behavior that is leading you to draw a line.

The important part of this is that choosing or not choosing to engage in the offensive behavior is their choice, not yours. Your choice is choosing to stay or leave the relationship. You cannot control another person, but you can vote with your feet.

What is your “If only…”

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[healthfreedom4s]

Thank you CatFamiliar for the post. It is thought provoking.

I have several "If only" with my upwBPD. My primary one at this time is "If only she gets therapy..."

[waverider]

Totally agree. Realizing what we perceive as being the cause of problems are really just symptoms. Fixing symptoms never fixes the problem, and the problem is beyond our ability to fix. Everyone else around us can see it, but we delude ourselves because the dream was so well sold, and was a sparkling reflection of our own desires.

We forever chase rainbows. Owning that takes a lot of ownership on our behalf, and is painful to do, so we continue to pour our energy into the black hole rather than just acknowledging it for what it is and changing our course around it.

[waverider]

I have several "If only" with my upwBPD. My primary one at this time is "If only she gets therapy..."

We all have that one, yet the common result is that even if it happens it rarely brings about the result we so desperately desire. Often having therapy ourselves has greater results as we have more control on the effectiveness. It can help us realize the reality or this thread topic if nothing else

[khibomsis]

Yes, been there done that. Kept me dissatisfied with my relationship because you know, other people get to be with each other all the time... 
Now I am in a sometimes happy, most often content LDR because it works for the persons we both are. I have started to enjoy huge amounts of space without the FOG - lets me focus on me which is a first in my life. And she is applying the lessons of therapy and is starting  to build a somewhat stable and content life where she is.
What I mean as long as we kept on putting pressure on each other to move to the other one's city it was hectic. Now that I better understand how BPD limits people's life options, that stopped. Now we spend as much time apart as we do together, have become great communicators   (because what else can you really do in a LDR) and it is supereasy for me to have boundaries. Guess what? We trust each other a lot more.

That bit about validating who they are and loving them for being that person- really important in a relationship wBPD

[tina7868]

This is a good point and lesson, one I think I’m still processing…but I’ll get there! My “if only”s are multiple, but they all seem to be targeted at my own behaviour when I feel like I “had a chance”. As in, if only I was calmer, dressed better, was more confident, could communicate better, had more money…then maybe my ex would still be around. I an trying to be kinder to myself and see how flawed that way of thinking is (it sort of absolves him of having played a part in relationship difficulties).

[PeteWitsend]

This is a good point and lesson, one I think I’m still processing…but I’ll get there! My “if only”s are multiple, but they all seem to be targeted at my own behaviour when I feel like I “had a chance”. As in, if only I was calmer, dressed better, was more confident, could communicate better, had more money…then maybe my ex would still be around. I an trying to be kinder to myself and see how flawed that way of thinking is (it sort of absolves him of having played a part in relationship difficulties).

Yes, I don't think anyone here deserves any blame for how they behaved or didn't behave within their relationship with a pwBPD, or any responsibility for it ending, or how it ends. 

They intentionally try to bring out the worst in us.  And on top of that, nothing we do helps.  Nothing we can do helps. 

I like the "bottomless pit" analogy the best. 

Would you blame anyone else for deciding to stop trying to fill a bottomless pit?  Heck no, you'd think that they finally came to their senses. 

[lenfan]

"If only they realized how much hurt they are causing they would stop (because they are basically good and  don't really mean it.)"

[Protectourfamily]

I can't even count the number of "if only"s I've had. I think a marker of my growth is how they have shifted from "if only he would ... " to "if only I could ... "
But it's still an "if only," not necessarily a practical prospect.
My current one is:
"If only I could stay calm and focused when he explodes, and set firm yet kind boundaries (basically, consisting of insisting that he leaves until he calms down) to protect my children."
Is this unrealistic?

[thankful person]

I believe you may have to be at a certain point of despair to be capable of battling addiction successfully. This was how I was with stopping smoking and it certainly was also where I was in my relationship when I arrived here at bpd family.

I knew that my wife had already undergone dbt therapy for diagnosed bpd. I knew that she considered herself cured because she had beaten self harm and eating disorders. I knew that she saw no reason to change.

I felt trapped because I had left a “happy” “stable” relationship with a man I loved.. left the security of my home, my business, left my cat on the other side of the world… for her. I could never tell anyone how badly things were going.

And then we had children. And I didn’t want to leave them.

I was so relieved and in fact, ecstatic, to come here and learn that I actually could have any amount of power over any aspect of my life.

It has been an amazing journey. The biggest change in me is that, whilst my wife still gets angry sometimes, I’m just not upset anymore. My inner strength has made an amazing amount of difference to her behaviour and treatment of me.

I accept that my wife will never really change. She will probably always shout and sulk if I mention something about work before making her feel attended to. But she moves on from it much quicker now that I just let her have her moment.

[Protectourfamily]

That's so nice to hear ... that you were able to successfully rise above it.
What do you mean by "let her have her moment"? If she is shouting etc with kids around?

[thankful person]

That's so nice to hear ... that you were able to successfully rise above it.
What do you mean by "let her have her moment"? If she is shouting etc with kids around?

We are going through a stressful time moving from a temporary home into our new house we bought. It is an hour away and we both do the drive most days, trying to unpack and get house and  other stuff sorted. Making sure I have all I need for online teaching. Making sure we have food, nappies, coffee etc.at both homes.

Today I taught at the new house for three hours because I had to accept a delivery and she arrived with kids shortly before I finished. And one of the first things I said to her, “you were right those students are quitting as their dad just got made redundant…”

And she starts shrieking about how I don’t respect her and don’t care about her and all I ever do is go on about work etc etc.I used to get so upset, apologising, begging her to forgive me, to hold my hand, wanting a hug, wanting to hear her say she loves me. She would shout and get more angry. So I just said “mmm” as she ranted, it is some form of low-level validation method I discovered. I’m just thinking, “whatever. If I say nothing I know you will get back to normal much quicker…”

It has helped me tremendously having the kids there actually. I interact with them as though nothing has happened and I know this is comforting and makes them feel secure. I have learnt not to say, “it’s ok” if they are upset, this makes my wife shriek even more as I guess it’s invalidating for her to hear me reassure our children that it’s ok. After the shrieking then she does a bit of sulking and then if I don’t put any pressure on her then she usually gets over it quite quickly.

[waverider]

I can't even count the number of "if only"s I've had. I think a marker of my growth is how they have shifted from "if only he would ... " to "if only I could ... "
But it's still an "if only," not necessarily a practical prospect.
My current one is:
"If only I could stay calm and focused when he explodes, and set firm yet kind boundaries (basically, consisting of insisting that he leaves until he calms down) to protect my children."
Is this unrealistic?

But can you force him to leave if he doesnt want to? Is it something you can enforce? If not its not a boundary

[zondolit]

If only this awful, evil disorder did not exist!

Another big one is If only my husband and I could achieve intimacy (I'm not using intimacy in only the sexual sense here but in the sense of we could speak openly, honestly, and I could share my concerns with him and he would listen and respond kindly, with my well-being in mind.) If only it was a two-way street.

[Cat Familiar]

"If only they realized how much hurt they are causing they would stop (because they are basically good and  don't really mean it.)"

When pwBPD are emotionally triggered, they can be oblivious in that moment to anyone else’s pain. They are solely focused upon their own.

It seems that some pwBPD would indeed like others to hurt, so that they understand how much pain that they experience, and are not so alone in their suffering.

[lenfan]

If only this awful, evil disorder did not exist!

Another big one is If only my husband and I could achieve intimacy (I'm not using intimacy in only the sexual sense here but in the sense of we could speak openly, honestly, and I could share my concerns with him and he would listen and respond kindly, with my well-being in mind.) If only it was a two-way street.

Amen.

[Protectourfamily]

But can you force him to leave if he doesnt want to? Is it something you can enforce? If not its not a boundary

I was thinking of calling my father (he works for my father, sort of) or perhaps social services.
Do you think that will work? Will it trigger him to respond more strongly? Maybe at first ... who knows?

[waverider]

But can you force him to leave if he doesnt want to? Is it something you can enforce? If not its not a boundary

I was thinking of calling my father (he works for my father, sort of) or perhaps social services.
Do you think that will work? Will it trigger him to respond more strongly? Maybe at first ... who knows?

Boundaries that involving forcing them to do something invariably lead to escalations. Boundaries that only involve you doing something, and hence in full control, are the most effective. What you mention is a kinda last resort sort of action rather than routine personal boundaries

[Slothie83]

If only he would show how much he loves me and show some remorse for the things he’s done in the last week. Instead, I’m made to feel irrational and when I show him sadness I’m told he’s afraid of me. I don’t think I can live like this anymore. I want someone who cares about me. Unfortunately I can’t financial support myself so am feeling a bit trapped at the moment.

[hurtingbad]

If only I could do everything he wants me to do before he wants me to do it, maybe there would be less arguments.

Some of the recurring arguments are over housework.  Since we've been married, he basically takes care of outside and I take care of inside.  He has been disabled for the last 17 years and has not been working, so he's home all day.  He does take care of the outside projects...cutting grass, bleaching eves, etc. as much as he can before the pain gets too great.  I will help with some things that are too much for him to finish or do alone.  My issue is, I am away from home from work 5 days a week from 7:00am until about 5:15pm (and half of one or two Saturdays a month).  I know he gets lonely at times because he's home by himself so much, so part of me doesn't want to leave him alone on the weekends when I am home to take care of everything I need to do in the house.  The evenings are pretty full with laundry, making and cleaning up dinner, feeding animals, walking the dog, etc.  Weekends are for dusting, vacuuming, mopping, more laundry...the more time consuming cleaning.  I do like to spend some time relaxing and hanging out with him, so some things don't always get done.  Our house is by no means dirty, but it's not spotless either.

Then I'll hear, "when is the last time you (insert project here)?  This is your house too.  I can't do everything outside and your stuff inside.  What am I doing wrong?  Why don't you care what our house looks like?  How are you ok with someone coming over and seeing the grout dirty/the dust on the wires behind the TV/(the whatever it is)  It's disgusting..." and on and on and on... 

He's constantly asking me to answer "why?" in any argument, which makes it impossible not to JADE.  Of course, that never works, but not answering doesn't work either. He really makes me think that he thinks I never do anything.  Maybe it is my fault?  Maybe I need to just leave him alone and work all weekend at home too, but I really don't want to all the time, ya know?

Sorry this got so long...it's just the most recent scolding I've received and it really bothers me.

[Cat Familiar]

If only I could do everything he wants me to do before he wants me to do it, maybe there would be less arguments.

Unlikely. He’d just find new issues to complain about.

Think of it this way: people with BPD feel uncomfortable internally and it helps them feel better to offload their pain on others. If you are hurt/suffering too, then he feels not so alone in his discomfort.

Sucks, but that’s what you’re dealing with.

Then I'll hear, "when is the last time you (insert project here)?  This is your house too.  I can't do everything outside and your stuff inside.  What am I doing wrong?  Why don't you care what our house looks like?  How are you ok with someone coming over and seeing the grout dirty/the dust on the wires behind the TV/(the whatever it is)  It's disgusting..." and on and on and on... 

The way I’d respond to this, “Yep. The house is truly a pigsty.” And smile. “I like spending my free time with you.

[kells76]

He's constantly asking me to answer "why?" in any argument, which makes it impossible not to JADE.  Of course, that never works, but not answering doesn't work either. He really makes me think that he thinks I never do anything.

hurtingbad, not sure how this would go in your situation, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

I wonder what would happen if you posted a big chart on a wall somewhere of your week, with time blocked out for work and sleep and other recurring things.

Then, when he tries to make it your problem for "why didn't you clean X", instead of JADE-ing, which I hear you'd rather not do, you could turn it around and ask him:

"Here's my week... would you agree that cleaning the grout well, doing a good job on it, would take 1 hour? When would you suggest I put that in on Saturday?"

You sound so busy, and it's really hard working away from the house and then also trying to clean the house. I'd imagine that your "week chart" would be pretty full pretty fast. So then if the only "open" blocks are on weekends, then...

this makes it his job to decide if he wants to spend time with you on the weekends.

It's not your job to both do whatever chores he wants you to do AND to figure out when to spend time as a couple.

He can want both, but he needs to have "skin in the game". You can't be expected to "magically" be able to do both without his cooperation.

My hopeful vision is that after he is like "do it at X time on Saturday" then it goes on the chart, and if he wants you to also spend time with him then, then you point back at the chart and say "Babe... looks like cleaning the grout is on the chart... what would you suggest..."

Make it his job.

Of course, this depends on how you think he'd respond and if this route is a good fit for you guys. Just some food for thought for getting out of the JADE trap and the "magical thinking" trap...

[kells76]

Oops, cross posted with Cat Familiar 

Her idea is interesting and kind of related: if you said "honey, I really prefer spending my free time together with you", what do you think he would do with that? Would he really say "I don't want to spend time with you, I want you to clean"? I mean... I guess that's possible?

[Manic Miner]

Unlikely. He’d just find new issues to complain about.

Think of it this way: people with BPD feel uncomfortable internally and it helps them feel better to offload their pain on others. If you are hurt/suffering too, then he feels not so alone in his discomfort.

Sucks, but that’s what you’re dealing with.

Very true. For who knows how long I wondered why my W always felt jealous/bad wherever I was feeling good and yet she found herself suffering. I was always in a better position, didn't get it, was mean, etc. I wondered how my positive vibe didn't make her more uplifting and worry less.

Wrongly wired minds.

Thanks also for your first post.

[waverider]

Its projection, knowing they are not doing their share they project that onto you. My wife does no "chores", only occasional "look what I did" grand gestures. But nothing motivated by obligation or responsibility, it has to have high visual impact, and when the impulse takes her. Yes the house is a pigsty, because i refuse to ramp it up to cover more than essentials. I prefer to have a life.

Yet I constantly get requests to do this or that. Reverse it and if I ask her to do something, no matter how small, it is almost automatic she will start making excuses why she cant. In fact will make more effort to avoid doing something than it would take to do it. It's almost like an internal fear of "chores".

Occasionally she will say she feels bad for not doing more, but does she then do something? No. She will come up with a why dont "we" do X. Which becomes can you do X? Why haven't you done X? Then if I do X, she will say I was just about to do X, you didnt need to do that. If I didn't it wouldn't have got done.

I'm done with trying work out methods and techniques to change this. It is the nature of the beast so to speak. So I just do what I need to do to live in a way that keeps me content, and let the rest go. Spending your life arguing about domestics is really not a way to live your life, and its all relative anyway

[hurtingbad]

So many to respond to...thanks for your input.

Cat Familiar,
You are right.  There is always something else to complain about.  I wrote the last post Friday about an argument from the week before.  I have been cleaning a couple little things each night and more on the weekends, but Friday night it was a different argument   It's just so hard.

Kells76,
I know he enjoys our spending time together too...when he's not pissed off about something.  I've actually thought about writing things on the calendar, but not for the reason you mentioned.  More to be able to look back and answer "when is the last time you did X?", or when he says it's been two or three weeks since something happened and I know it was only a week ago.  I'm sure if I pulled out a calendar for that, I'd probably get something like "you're right...I'm wrong.  I'm always wrong.  You win."

Waverider,
I don't think this is projection, because he does do a ton of things around the house.  HE may think he doesn't do enough, which might be projecting, but I don't feel that way.  He has always said he has to do stuff or he thinks he is being lazy, and never wants anyone to ever say he's lazy...(his parents apparently said that to him when he was young).  I've told him many times that I have never said that about him and don't think that.  But...like most things we say, it doesn't matter.  They think what they think.

All,
How is it anywhere near fair for them to say/do whatever they want, with the possible intention of making us suffer?  All the while, we are supposed to walk on eggshells hoping everything's ok?  When it's not, we're supposed to be the adults and learn how to speak to them correctly, when they don't care how much they are hurting us.  Like most of you, I'm sure, it's not constantly bad, we have some great times/memories together, but when it's bad, it's BAD.

[Cat Familiar]

How is it anywhere near fair for them to say/do whatever they want, with the possible intention of making us suffer? 

As in much of life, *fairness* is a fantasy.

All the while, we are supposed to walk on eggshells hoping everything's ok? 

The only one making the choice to walk on eggshells is you. It’s unnecessary when you learn other strategies.

When it's not, we're supposed to be the adults and learn how to speak to them correctly, when they don't care how much they are hurting us. 

At first, when I realized I had a *ton* of learning to do to change the communication dynamics in my relationship, I was pissed 

After all, I reasoned, it wasn’t my fault. Whine, cuss, whine, rinse, repeat.

So I tried learning a couple of strategies, and frankly I still don’t use some of the ones that others find helpful such as DEARMAN, because I was too damn lazy to learn them.

And guess what? Implementing some of these new ways of responding resulted in MUCH LESS DRAMA.

I realized that I was learning better ways of communicating for ME, not for him.

Nowadays there’s seldom any issue that comes up between us. I don’t participate in his dramas and things that used to cause conflict, DON’T, because I no longer give them energy. I’d say that 95+% of the time is conflict-free, and that 5% is just me being an azzhole.

I no longer walk on eggshells and I say what I mean and mean what I say.

It’s taken a while to get to this point, but it’s been well worth it.

That said, my situation is easier than some since my husband has traits of BPD without being full-blown BPD, as was my previous husband, who engaged in infidelity, substance abuse, violent behavior, and illegality.

Nevertheless, a psychologist who had previously seen both of us, diagnosed my current husband with a personality disorder. She didn’t specify which one, saying that fluidity is a new way of looking at PDs in her profession. Definitely he showed more NPD behavior in her presence and saved the BPD stuff when he had no audience other than me.

Learning the Tools at the top of this page and changing your patterns WILL change the dynamic in your relationship. It’s not an overnight fix, but you will see consistent improvement if you stay the course.

[thankful person]

Hurting bad, Cat is absolutely right, she has been one of my greatest role models on here and always gives sound advice. I often think, “what would Cat do?” 

I was also confused about the egg shells. I remember one of my first posts on here was when my wife threw a tantrum over me opening a work text on a Sunday and checking my diary so I could respond to it. (They were piano students wanting to change the lesson time the next day. I just texted back, “yes that’s fine…” Not like I was going to be typing up pages and pages of work all day!) These were my words on the forum, “I’ve read stop walking on egg shells but I don’t know how to!” I didn’t get it until I read “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”.

My concern was, I felt like an idiot for doing something I knew my wife would hate, which ruined the whole day, I wished I hadn’t done it… I continually asked on here, “how can I do x without upsetting my wife?” I was continuing to walk on egg shells.

So what I discovered is, to stop walking on egg shells… you just have to assert your right to do whatever you want to do… and do it. I now have more self-respect. I have made many changes since I’ve been on this journey. My wife is now used to me doing various things she had forbidden. It’s not about protecting the pwbpd from their own emotions. It is about how you best respond to them. One response I learnt was to exit the scene, go out or go do something in another room. I would explain, “I don’t like the way you’re talking to me… if you continue to shout I will be going out for a walk..” Another powerful thing I learnt to repeat to myself: “her feelings don’t have to be your feelings…”

Like Cat I feel I don’t use all the tools, however it seems my wife feels quite validated just through me acknowledging what she said and not disagreeing with it. I like SET (support, empathy, truth). My favourite part is truth because that’s when you get to say one JADE statement and then get away from it all if necessary. So I usually just acknowledge what she said (validate) then truth statement, then usually she accepts it but if not I state and then execute the consequences of non-cooperation or hostility.

By the time I next encountered the work text situation, things were so different in our relationship that she didn’t even challenge me. For a start I no longer tell her what I’m doing or who I’m texting all the time. But if she had done, I would have simply said, “I know you dislike me attending to work matters today. I wanted to get it sorted today. If you continue to complain about it then I will go and do x for some time.”

[waverider]

The problem is we dont always think of our pwBPd has having a disablement a lot of the time. So when they go off into unbalanced delusion land there is a tendency to try to logic them back, rather than stepping back and allowing the crazy train take its journey off into who knows where. Think for example if you were dealing with a parent with dementia who was rambling all over the place in a delusional state you wouldn't constantly try to negotiate them back to normality, or halt living your life because they were making wild claims, as you would just accept that is the way they are and you dont bother trying to drag them out of it or jump in to it.

Over caretaking can enmesh you in the disability to the point that you are dysfunctional by association. I take a lesson from when I went to Al-Anon (family members of alcoholics) this was basically stop counting their drinks or searching for empty bottles as that simply makes your obsession with this as disruptive to your mental health as their drinking does. The problem becomes yours as for most of the time you are flogging a dead horse for no end benefit. You are actively choosing to curtail your life quality