ex-pwBPD reached out after 2 months of no contact...feeling conflicted

[Good Intentions]

A little background on me & my r/s with ex-gf with BPD (which you can read from other posts of mine on this forum) -

We dated for almost 4 years (during which time we frequently discussed moving in together, marriage, starting a family, etc.) before she discarded me for reasons she wasn't really able to explain...if I had to state her rationale as I understand it, it was because she felt like I needed to view my "defensiveness" as an equal (if not greater) problem in our relationship than her BPD. At various points in our relationship, she had been emphatic that I needed to be in weekly counseling for a variety of reasons, that I might have BPD, ADHD, was emotionally stunted, etc. And I see that now as the pure & total projection that it was. She was likely deeply insecure about her own issues so she needed me to have a "fatal flaw" too.

My belief is that her impulsive decision to end the relationship when she did was the somewhat classic "abandon this person before they abandon me" BPD-driven behavior. Yes - our relationship was dysfunctional and not working, but for the first time in years we had hope. She was about to begin a DBT-based workshop, I was starting to really learn how to be a better partner to her (avoided JADE'ing / tried to focus on validating her emotional experience even if it was disordered & illogical), we had just taken a weekend trip together without a major blow-up, and we had a longer trip to Europe to look forward to...

Then came the discard in late January 2022. Exactly 2 weeks after that (in February) I reached out to her to confirm that she wanted to end the relationship...she had impulsively tried to do so dozens of times before, and especially because I didn't want the relationship to end (which I communicated repeatedly), I wanted to make sure that she was thinking as clearly as someone with BPD can be and that she was accurately expressing her feelings. She claimed that she simply didn't view me as a part of her life anymore, and that maybe my role in her life was just to make her aware of her BPD (I literally spoon-fed her diagnosis to her before she eventually had a professional confirm the obvious).

Flash forward to yesterday - I checked my phone around 7pm and had a missed call from my ex. Hadn't heard a peep from her in 2 months, she blocked me on social media, etc. I called her back, she did not answer. She called me back after 10pm (while I was getting ready for bed) and basically said "sorry, I was free and wanted to talk, but then I ended up hanging out with my mom & her friend". She was very polite and friendly and it felt like she was putting an act to demonstrate how great she's doing, how normal she's feeling, how what she wanted to talk about wasn't that pressing, etc. And maybe she is totally fine because again, there's nothing normal about the way she processes emotions, and to her, the loss of a person who she claimed to want to build a life with isn't as big of a deal as it is to me.

But I'm very conflicted on meeting up with her to talk, especially given the timing of her reaching out. I think for a long time I wanted her to contact me, take accountability, seek to reconcile our relationship, etc. But the brief interaction we had on the phone last night honestly just made me angry, and it comes on the heels of me really starting to repair my own sense of self, confidence, etc. I even was able to land a dream job in the midst of the heaviest mourning period of my life (grieving her discarding me).

To me, it was inconsiderate to not return my call for 3 hours. Yes, I missed her original call, but if she wanted to talk to the ex that she brashly discarded after 4 years together, you would think that she wouldn't then jump to doing something else that night? I guess it just proves that her decision to contact me in the first place was likely very impulsive / an "in-the-moment" decision. This is further supported by the idea that, when we started trying to decide when we could meet up to talk, she had no suggestion of a day or time, and any day or time I suggested she seemed to have a conflict (happy hour, work event, etc.) that she would laughingly tell me about.

Super long post I know, but obviously her reaching out just brought up a bunch of feelings. She claims that she just wants to "get on the same page about a couple things" and she mentioned "boundaries" twice...my guess is that she wants me to stop interacting with anyone she considers her "friend" on social media (even if that person is almost equally a friend of mine) which isn't a boundary, it would just be her trying to be controlling even from the afterlife.

But I wanted to hopefully get some feedback from the group on how to handle a situation where I'm sitting down with her to talk about I don't even know what really...thanks in advance for the advice!

[drumdog4M]

Good Intentions, I understand the conflicting emotions you're experiencing. My post, just beneath yours re "Attempted Recycle" might serve as a cautionary tale of how such meetings for resolution can go -- leaving one further conflicted, setting back your healing, yet potentially allowing some measure of closure.

Reading yours and nearly all the posts here, it always strikes me how eerily similar the behavioral patterns are, both for the pswBPD and those of us either in or struggling to be out of such relationships.

It also struck me how your ex-pwBPD projects, tries to equalize the "faults" in each of you, and consistently seemed to take the position that her emotions take precedence over yours. In addition, the reaching out and then being unavailable for whatever reason. Those were my experiences as well. (I'd be suspicious of the reason she didn't answer based on my personal experience. With mine, it was likely because she didn't feel like it, was exercising control by not answering the phone, wasn't sure what / how to communicate when confronted with my call, or was busy with another man.)

I'm glad you are healing and landed a dream job while mourning. That takes real strength and perseverance. Be proud of yourself and your progress. If you do decide to meet with her, protect yourself and the progress you've made toward detaching and rebuilding your life and identity apart from her. It might be more fragile than you realize when in person with her again.

Just my thoughts. Good luck and keep reaching out.

[judee]

It is so weird to call you after two months and then just say 'she was free and wanted to talk'. Without filling in why she does that, I can totally understand you are angry and confused. It is very hurtful.
My ex used to find excuses, even rejecting ones ( I wanted to send you your stuff back when there was no stuff)  when he actually just wanted to get back in touch or even back together. But he could never say that, he let me do all the vulnerable stuff and even when I did he would feel rejected and stay at a distance in expectation of more. it is like a sucking device that almost robbed me of all my energy and self-esteem.
I agree with you that even if it is out of a deep sense of insecurity/fear of rejection at this point she should come with a whole lot more than just an aloof response like this.

[Good Intentions]

It also struck me how your ex-pwBPD projects, tries to equalize the "faults" in each of you, and consistently seemed to take the position that her emotions take precedence over yours. In addition, the reaching out and then being unavailable for whatever reason.

If you do decide to meet with her, protect yourself and the progress you've made toward detaching and rebuilding your life and identity apart from her. It might be more fragile than you realize when in person with her again.

@drumdog - thank you for the quick reply. Fortunately, my ex didn't love bomb me or verbalize her sincere commitment to self-improvement or behavior modification from the totally destructive & angry outbursts that defined our relationship...quite the opposite in fact!

she claims that her new therapist (operating a DBT-based program for pwBPD/NPD) told her she doesn't have BPD, and at various times my ex was mockingly condescending, overwhelemed with sadness, then flipped to name-calling (I was a "sarcastic a**hole" for refuting her ridiculous claim that I communicated at various times "I have nothing to work on as a human being or in a relationship." That is the opposite of what I actually routinely say - I'm a work in progress and I need grace from my partner in my areas of weakness.) So in short, she was all over the place emotionally, she toggled from blaming me and my "defensiveness" for why she had to leave me, to "her not being ready for a relationship" at all? Again, just creating more unknowns than knowns because of the shifting sense of self.

regardless of a diagnosis of this, that, or the other, my ex was her same old self. She claims she's going to stay committed to the DBT program despite not having BPD (a claim I find dubious at best when she solidly fits 8 of the 9 symptoms & has the turbulent childhood + genetic factors to boot) but I'm very skeptical. She seemed smug & vindicated to report to me that she didn't have BPD because she resented me for being the one to identify it in the first place.

Which is so weird because before either she or I had heard of BPD, we frequently discussed her "shadow monster" that interrupted her ability to process her emotions, and when we were dealing with the "shadow monster", my ex not only didn't have a problem with me sticking my nose into the problem, but she fully expected me to solve every situation that it created. But once I put a "label" on it, called it for what it is/was, I somehow crossed a boundary.

I think meeting up with my ex was worth it because it sort of solidifies in my head that this person is no closer to being healthy than she was when she discarded me, and now it's time for me to fully close the door on any idea of her being able to be what me (or any of us) needs in the future...there's just no reason to believe that's going to be the outcome at this point.

[drumdog4M]

I will note that MANY therapists seem extremely reluctant to label their clients as BPD for a number of reasons, but it is very stigmatizing. I doubt the therapist said she did not qualify for the diagnosis but probably equivocated. You are getting the whitewashed version from your ex.

Regardless of any diagnosis, her behavior is very harmful to you and appears consistent with traits of BPD. Whether she meets 2, 5, 8, or 9 traits, her behaviors has harmed you and your relationship. That's what really matters.

My ex-gf was diagnosed with BPD at the Mayo Clinic around 4-5 years ago. I of course did not know this or even what BPD was when we started our relationship. Yet, she and her mother rejected that diagnosis and seemed not even to really understand what it meant because "the diagnosis was based on how she acted in her teens and 20s, not how she is today." She later did over a year of DBT but still didn't think she suffered from BPD but was doing it to curb her "self-destructive tendencies."

She raised BPD with her current therapist who reportedly encouraged her to just focus on her feelings and behavior but was very careful not to label it. She threw that back at me as "not having BPD" and accused me of labeling her and calling her "broken." I didn't do the latter and rather tried to discuss whether the volatility in our relationship might in part be explained by some of these kinds of traits.

In sum, I know how you feel. She is also invalidating you and gaslighting you because her fragile ego cannot accept that she likely has a personality disorder. Even if she technically does not, her behavior appears consistent with a lot of those traits which are antithetical to a healthy relationship.

Hang in there.

[Good Intentions]

She raised BPD with her current therapist who reportedly encouraged her to just focus on her feelings and behavior but was very careful not to label it. She threw that back at me as "not having BPD" and accused me of labeling her and calling her "broken." I didn't do the latter and rather tried to discuss whether the volatility in our relationship might in part be explained by some of these kinds of traits.

In sum, I know how you feel. She is also invalidating you and gaslighting you because her fragile ego cannot accept that she likely has a personality disorder. Even if she technically does not, her behavior appears consistent with a lot of those traits which are antithetical to a healthy relationship.

this is so succinctly spot-in. I always tried to reassure her that the idea she might have BPD was never about putting a label on her or shaming her in any way (obviously because that would be a terrible thing to do to another human being) but simply to help explain some of her toxic patterns of behavior. when you view her actions through the lens of BPD, they suddenly become quite rational! I viewed that as a wonderful positive discovery for the relationship...but I suppose a pwBPD cannot because of the inability to process the shame of acceptance?

[drumdog4M]

I think that's right. Their self-worth is already so low that a diagnosis of that confirms something is in fact "wrong" with them. Of course, many pwBPD after therapy will acknowledge what they struggle with and seek treatment, with varying degrees of success. I do not believe from what I have learned that the disorder goes away, but the behaviors associated with the disorder can be managed through DBT, for example.

My ex will acknowledge that she has "strong emotions" and can be "impulsive." If that's enough for her to live with herself and acknowledge she needs professional help, that's still a positive step. the label of BPD can be overwhelming.

From my perspective, I was utterly confused by the behavior until I learned about BPD and asked if she'd ever heard of it. That's when she admitted that she had received the diagnose. She then immediately dismissed the diagnosis.

I have no doubt that you were reassuring, validating, and did not label her. You were looking for a solution because you wanted to repair the relationship. I did the same, but it might have been naive of me in hindsight to think I could raise it with her in a way that would not trigger her outside the context of maybe couples counseling. It still would have triggered her, but it might have been more managed. Instead, I was accused of calling her "broken" and that I would leave her to be with somebody "normal."

It's so hard when all you want to do is help the person you love, but face rejection in so many different ways.

It's challenging for anyone to accept they have a mental illness. Sadly, this one is particularly stigmatizing and plays into a lot of the fears they already have. At least that is my non-professional view on it.

[Good Intentions]

I have no doubt that you were reassuring, validating, and did not label her. You were looking for a solution because you wanted to repair the relationship. I did the same, but it might have been naive of me in hindsight to think I could raise it with her in a way that would not trigger her outside the context of maybe couples counseling. It still would have triggered her, but it might have been more managed. Instead, I was accused of calling her "broken" and that I would leave her to be with somebody "normal."

It's so hard when all you want to do is help the person you love, but face rejection in so many different ways.

this absolutely hit the nail on the head, and it's perspective like this that keeps me coming back to the message boards even though I feel like I'm on more firm mental ground/not in quite such a vulnerable place of wanting to have her back in my life at any cost. sometimes, gaslighting was used to try to convince me that "maybe I was obsessing over the BPD label?" but in both my head & heart I know that my intentions were pure, and my delivery was not near as sour or toxic or demeaning or negative as my ex would have me believe. And I know that because I'm smart enough to recognize that being mean to someone in addressing their deepest insecurity would not get me the desired result! Which is why I approached her in a calm, loving manner from the get-go   

[Rev]

this absolutely hit the nail on the head, and it's perspective like this that keeps me coming back to the message boards even though I feel like I'm on more firm mental ground/not in quite such a vulnerable place of wanting to have her back in my life at any cost. sometimes, gaslighting was used to try to convince me that "maybe I was obsessing over the BPD label?" but in both my head & heart I know that my intentions were pure, and my delivery was not near as sour or toxic or demeaning or negative as my ex would have me believe. And I know that because I'm smart enough to recognize that being mean to someone in addressing their deepest insecurity would not get me the desired result! Which is why I approached her in a calm, loving manner from the get-go   

Loving this entire thread.  And I still come back to the boards - because there's nothing like having a place to go and keep your balance, you know.  I know enough about myself that, at my age and my relationship history I trying to make things work with women whom I knew (I KNEW!) were probably not good for me, staying on top of things will be part of my regimen from here on in. It's like changing one's diet because the older you get, there are certain things you will just eat less of and other things you will just choose not to eat at all.

Hang in there everyone.

Happy Monday.

Rev

[Good Intentions]

@drumdog4M blast from the past here...

it has been an up-and-down last several months, and the holidays were difficult for me as it was the first in 5 years without my ex in my life.

since my last post, I've had some setbacks in my healing and have really contributed to my own suffering in a few ways that I'm hoping you can help me talk through.

while my ex has effectively gone no-contact except for the one interaction we had in April (which ended with her trying to coerce me into break-up sex despite me telling her that doing so would be extremely emotionally painful for me), I have had several glimpses into her life over the last 6 months or so that have hurt me.

the biggest thing I'm struggling with is social media stalking. she blocked me on her primary instagram account, but she has a 2nd account (under a nickname) that's public, and on that page she posts way more frequently - it's basically a "favorites" page for her camera roll, and is a collection of random photos...of scenery, food, interior design, landscaping, pictures from travel, occasionally pictures of family or herself, whatever else, and when we were dating it would include a decent amount of pictures of me (always captioned with some expression of love). she has maintained the frequency of posting on that account, and I truly feel addicted to keeping tabs on it. but eventually doing so has led to misery...upon the discovery that she has been dating someone since at least this summer.

they've traveled together, gone to nice dinners together, concerts & other events...and despite my rational brain knowing that viewing those pictures causes my heart to ache, I still go back to it.

why on earth do I want to experience the cold reality of my own replacement?

I have many more thoughts on this subject to share, but since this particular forum has been dormant for a while, I'll save the added detail for if/when someone responds...I need some help from this community (and I'm continuing to visit with my own therapist regularly)

[SaltyDawg]

why on earth do I want to experience the cold reality of my own replacement?

trauma bond

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=229693.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327131.0

[Rev]

trauma bond

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=229693.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327131.0

agreed.

Ask your T about this resource.

https://www.amazon.ca/Attached-Science-Attachment-Find-Keep/dp/1585429139