How do you handle the lying?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

How do you handle when you’re in a conversation where your spouse is flat out lying? My wife hates my sister and calls her to pick fights then tries to make me cut her off making up all kinds of stuff. I usually just validate then when she asks me to cut her off she explodes and I leave the house. I’m hoping overtime this works that her nonsense will stop but looking for some other ideas or tips. I’m writing this at 11:30 pm driving around town because she freaked out on me and called me awful names.

[Husband2014]

How do you handle when you’re in a conversation where your spouse is flat out lying? My wife hates my sister and calls her to pick fights then tries to make me cut her off making up all kinds of stuff. I usually just validate then when she asks me to cut her off she explodes and I leave the house. I’m hoping overtime this works that her nonsense will stop but looking for some other ideas or tips. I’m writing this at 11:30 pm driving around town because she freaked out on me and called me awful names.

[ForeverDad]

I'm not sure who and what's being validated and what's not.  In general, appeasing is a slippery slope.  If you start giving in just to minimize the incident, it will likely enable or incentivize more demands to approve the other's perceptions, viewpoint or demands.

Boundaries are a way to set a demarcation between perception and reality.  Here is the index of our Tools & Skills workshop board.  Among the many topics are two threads on Boundaries, and another on Are You Supporting Or Enabling?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

Granted, being the savior vs persecutor in a Karpman drama triangle where your spouse morphs between persecutor and victim, is an almost impossible task.  A reasonably normal person would learn after bumping a few times against a reasonable but firm Boundary.  PwBPD (or other persons with acting-out PD traits) are resistant to proper Boundaries, will claim you're controlling, and demand you cave to their self-centered perceptions.

That's the dilemma we face here, what do you do if the person never "learns" reasonably normal behavior and perspectives.  When there is such a total lack of response and cooperation, eventually the only effective option is to end the adult relationship.  Yes, you share children but parenting does go on if the adult relationship (marriage) ends.

[Husband2014]

Thank you. Yes part of it I have been applying boundaries to my heavy determent as the assaults have gotten so bad that I went and got a lawyer and kinda giving it another month or two.  If she doesn’t get better by summer I’m out the door. Sad but I can’t expose my kids to this insanity any longer.

[ForeverDad]

A wise goal is to strategize with lawyers and other child advocate professionals how to ensure you can take the children with you, or failing that, how to ensure you have the most time and authority with the kids.  In other words, while you do have to save yourself, the children are also a high priority.  While your spouse is an adult and responsible for herself, on the other hand, these are kids and minors are far more dependent on healthy guidance and protection.

If they aren't already benefiting from counseling, then brainstorm with your lawyer on how to get that started.  (And your spouse can't be trusted in handling choosing a counselor for them.)  Many dysfunctional spouses will reject the idea of counseling, yet rest assured that if the matter ever came before a court, a judge would likely agree to counseling for them.  As my lawyer said, courts love counseling.

Two good books (many are on our book reviews board) to read are Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak (for parenting) and Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy (for yourself).  One point that Eddy makes is that not all lawyers are up to the task of dealing with our very contentious spouses.  You'll need an experienced and proactive lawyer who has time-tested strategies.

[Husband2014]

Yes I’m already working on a parental plan and asset plan. I am reading divorce poison right now and actually took a 60 min call with Bill Eddy and he referred me to the book. To be honest I don’t know how to go about finding a lawyer whi understands this stuff but I’m comfortable with the lawyer I have.  Hope it doesn’t get to that but I’m not holding my breath anymore. The smearing campaign already started and she called her parents telling them I’m treating her poorly. I sent them a slew of text messages on the name calling (I am documenting EVERYTHING in a Dropbox file that goes straight to my lawyer). 

Miraculously she agreed for therapy for kids because I put my foot down pretty hard on that and it worked.

My plan if I leave is to shoot for 50/50 with kids and I think she will self implode over time that I think I can get mor time but open for feedback here.

[ForeverDad]

Feedback?  You got it.  Try for (1) majority time and (2) decision making or tie breaker status.  Too often mothers get default preference in parenting.  So you and your lawyer may have to buck that perception, or at least try to.  Every little bit of leverage helps.  You won't get more than  50/50 unless you seek it and document why you want/need to be an involved father.

That's what happened in my case.  I was two years in divorce with a temp order stating all I had was alternate weekends.  Oh, and I got one other thing... ordered to pay child support.  As a dad that was my contribution.  She had temp custody and temp majority time and of course never listened to me.  And neither the lawyers nor the court were inclined to adjust a "temporary" order, even one that covered two years.  Final decree set us as equals.  That didn't work either, I went back for custody.  And back again for majority time.  Years of my life.  Kid was nearly 4 when we separated and nearly 12 when we finally had an order that worked (never went back to court).