Divorcing because of impulsive spending

[Huntinfool123]

  family!

I've posted a few times here already as I have been confused with my current situation.  So my undiagnosed BPD wife of 24 years has been spending money without my knowledge, a lot of money over the last 3 years.  I've been noticing that she has been under a lot of stress and she would just tell me it's because of me and my actions.  This has been tough for me because over the last 6+ months since my T told me she she has BPD traits, I found this site, read several books and have tried to make changes not to trigger her as much as possible.  I have also not raised my voice and quit drinking beer completely.  In fact today is my 6 Month anniversary of being sober!  Almost 3 weeks ago she moves to her parents house and is insistent on selling the house and getting our own places.  I have asked and offered to figure out a plan about the debt but she will not admit to the debt.  She claims it's fraud, they didn't process the payment she sent, etc.  She has yet to admit to her doing with the spending.

She has kept in contact with me daily.  Sometimes to blame me but mostly just to talk about moving forward.  She has recently said a few times she just wants to live separately, go to counseling and go to dinner to find work on our relationship.  This is contrary to what I've read most deal with here.  So it's not a full discard and she says she has no interest in finding someone else.  She is also going through
my Facebook friends and accusing me of being more than friends with some of them, which is not true. She is bringing things up things she thinks I have done in the past (16+ years ago).  It seems like she is trying to justify her ending the marriage because of me.  However I get the feeling it's because she feels guilty about the spending but can't admit it?  I do still love her but I am starting to fall out of love with her.  

I know everyone is different so I can't get a definitive answer on how she really feels.  However her words and actions sure feel like she just wants to get the money to pay off her debt so she can conceal it from our family and friends. All while not truly giving up on the marriage. I am feeling like I need to get the divorce finalized so that no matter what happens in the future I will not be tied to her, so that her financial issues will not affect me any longer.  I have been through this a few times with her over the years and I have always made it work to pay off the debt.  So, I have been enabling her actions.  I need to stop the enabling.  I also don't feel like I want to start over with someone else, even though our marriage has been rocky at times.  She claims she is going to therapy now and maybe she can get the help she needs to better herself and make the changes that can help our relationship down the road.  This if course is if her T can properly diagnose her.  I suspect this will be tough because she is so bubbly around others (just not me) and she blames me for everything wrong in the relationship, with the occasional "I played a roll too".

Thoughts going through my mind are:
-How can she not have any feelings for the spending?
-How can not see this has hurt the family as a whole?
-Should I just limit my contact and test the waters romantically?
-Should I stay true to her for a while in hopes that once the debt is payed she will not be so stressed and paint me white again?

Anyone else going through this or been down this path?  Any insight on what worked or if it didn't work?

Gosh this is so tough as I want to stay married but can't deal with the lying, even though it could be on the subconscious level.  I certainly don't want to start dating and then we get back together and have regrets for "cheating on her", even though we will be legally separated.  I want to be there to help her but at the same time I need to be happy as well.

Thanks for reading and have a wonderful day!

[Notwendy]

Congratulations on 6 months sober. That is a big accomplishment.

This is a thread about a similar topic-

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=355975

In addition, the spending and not telling you in a marriage where her spending affects the whole family is an example of financial infidelity.

I have an elderly widowed BPD mother so a different relationship. I can say that this is an issue for as long as I have known her and it affected the family. My father appeased her. I know that this hasn't stopped her spending from continuing or the lying about it. While we, her children, are not connected to her financially, we are concerned for her well being and know she needs to be conservative with the money my father left her.

Since you have managed to stop drinking alcohol, you have the perspective of what it's like to have an addiction. Yes, it hurts you, it hurts your family but the drive to drink somehow feels stronger than that when someone is addicted. It's not that you don't care that it is hurting your family, it's that wanting a drink is your focus. Until you make the decision to work at quitting. It's hard work and in order to do that, you have to own the behavior.

This is similar to BPD behavior but with a difference. The drive to spend is emotional but the person doesn't own their behavior, due to their BPD. Without being accountable, they don't have the motivation to stop a behavior that makes them feel good, at least on a temporary basis.

So, with regards to my own BPD mother- who is still spending in her elder years- I will try to answer your questions.

Thoughts going through my mind are:
-How can she not have any feelings for the spending?

pwBPD are very consumed by their own disordered feelings. I don't think they have any more emotional bandwith to be concerned about other people's feelings.

-How can not see this has hurt the family as a whole?
Pw BPD see themselves in victim position. Other people are either rescuers or persecutors. If anyone else in the family is feeling hurt, that is also victim position. There can only be one person in victim position- the pwBPD. Other people possibly hurting don't fit their thinking.

-Should I just limit my contact and test the waters romantically?

If you are wishing to have a romantic relationship with her, this is part of who she is. It's up to you to decide if a relationship with her is worth the threat to your finances. It's a total package. You can decide to protect your money in your own account if your state laws make this possible

-Should I stay true to her for a while in hopes that once the debt is payed she will. It be so stressed and paint me white again?

If she paints you white or not, the spending issue is still going to be a part of her behavior. One reason if you split to stay away from dating other women is to not complicate the situation until you settle this one. It's said that if people jump from one relationship to another and don't look at their part in a disordered relationships they risk repeating the same dynamics with someone else. Surely you don't want to leave this situation only to do the same with someone else. Staying single for a while will help you avoid this.

Anyone else going through this or been down this path?  Any insight on what worked or if it didn't work?

Not romantically but as a family member. I don't know what works. I just know that as long as we are the ones who are more concerned about BPD needing to conserve her money for her basic needs, than she is, nothing we do will stop her from spending all her money impulsively.

[Turkish]

The spending is a compulsion and a balm for her feelings. It's odd that she'd start doing this over so long a marriage, but maybe not as it's her soothing behavior now. I had a buddy whose wife was spending them towards bankruptcy, but it was within the first few years of marriage.

[Notwendy]

For my BPD mother, it's been a constant.

If we use the Karpman triangle dynamics, it is possible that one person plays all three roles with themselves. Spending money, addictions,- these are self rescuing behaviors when one is feeling like a victim. My mother also has narcissistic traits and has a sense of entitlement- she feels she deserves the money to spend on herself. I think there are several emotional factors that drive her behavior- and I think it is soothing behavior.

I post this on the relationship board because I could see this dynamic between my parents. It seems to be a common situation.

[ForeverDad]

-Should I stay true to her for a while in hopes that once the debt is payed she will. It be so stressed and paint me white again?

If she paints you white or not, the spending issue is still going to be a part of her behavior. One reason if you split to stay away from dating other women is to not complicate the situation until you settle this one. It's said that if people jump from one relationship to another and don't look at their part in a disordered relationships they risk repeating the same dynamics with someone else. Surely you don't want to leave this situation only to do the same with someone else. Staying single for a while will help you avoid this.

Usually rebound relationships don't work.  It's just too soon, we're just too focused on the ended relationship and its ongoing impact on our lives.  For example, if you went out to dinner with someone new, could you manage an entire evening, much less a courtship, without the failing or failed marriage not to become The Topic of conversation?  To partially quote truisms, time does heal many wounds, but always remember that recovery is a process, not an event.

As to why this has happened now after more than two decades together, we've noticed that the big changes in behavior come after some sort of trigger or "perceived traumas".  You as a reasonably normal person may have handled them without much distress in your own life but for your spouse they were huge issues.

About the time things worsened... Did the first or last of the children move out or get married?  Was there a death, loss of a home or some other event in spouse's parents, siblings or other family?  Did spouse experience the change of life?

Typically, the behaviors worsen over time.  So does the Blaming, Blame Shifting, Fault Finding and other extremes.  More or less, what she has done and is doing are all typical behaviors except they've been taken to unreasonable extremes.  That's a simple description of Personality Disorders... typical traits of behavior but taken to beyond normal extremes to the point that they're abnormal, dysfunctional and quite hurtful to self and others, especially those closest to her.  BPD is, after all, a disorder most evident in the closest relationships.

[Huntinfool123]

Hey Notwendy,
Thanks for the response and insight in all of my questions and link to a similar post! It means so much to me. I have read many of your wonderful responses and they are so valuable to us!  Keep up the great work!

Best regards!

[Huntinfool123]

Thank you Turkish!  This is actually not the first time she has done this.  She did the same 9 years ago as far as excessive spending and loans in my name.  Her mother also had spending issues 15 Years ago.  So to me this is a pattern. What really has my even more concerned is I have 3 daughters that are young adults.  I fear they will do the same.  I do see some similarities in them as their Mother, but that is normal.  The more concerning ones are how easy it is to not be truthful and seem to believe their own lies, no value for money or respect for others when they send gifts (not showing gratitude to anyone but their Mom).  I do believe the majority of the money went to them for clothing, getting their hair and nails done, elaborate clothing, etc.



ForeverDad,
   Thank you for your insight and clarity.  I cannot even imagine dating someone else at the moment, especially because I think of my wife too often.  That wouldn't be fair to whomever I dated.

"As to why this has happened now after more than two decades together, we've noticed that the big changes in behavior come after some sort of trigger or "perceived traumas".  You as a reasonably normal person may have handled them without much distress in your own life but for your spouse they were huge issues."  -We have been through a lot in our relationship and yes, she blames it on the "trauma" I have caused.  Many times her perception of the events are quite different from my recollection. Raising 3 daughters and running a business is stressful and I believe this has certainly contributed to stress.

"About the time things worsened... Did the first or last of the children move out or get married?  Was there a death, loss of a home or some other event in spouse's parents, siblings or other family?  Did spouse experience the change of life?"    -The first child has just moved out on her own (so proud of her), my wife thought she would move in with her but my oldest got a  1 bedroom apartment instead, hard not to think that was intentional.  My wife has also been going through the change of life for about a year now.

"Typically, the behaviors worsen over time.  So does the Blaming, Blame Shifting, Fault Finding and other extremes.  More or less, what she has done and is doing are all typical behaviors except they've been taken to unreasonable extremes.  That's a simple description of Personality Disorders... typical traits of behavior but taken to beyond normal extremes to the point that they're abnormal, dysfunctional and quite hurtful to self and others, especially those closest to her.  BPD is, after all, a disorder most evident in the closest relationships." - Thanks for the direct insight and so very true!  It does seem to be worsening over time, and to much further extremes.  I initially thought this was due to the extreme spending and using my daughter's identity for credit.  Even bankruptcy won't fix this because of her actions with fraud / identity theft.  The only way is to sell the house.  I just wish my wife would see it and get help.  I'd love to work through this with her.  However she seems to think we need to separate, get divorced and try to possibly reconcile down the road.