BPD and legal

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We are still living together, but he has discarded me. He hired attorneys and is giving false information to try to have me removed from our home just because he doesn't want me there anymore. Basically, his attorneys have tried contacting me and ignored it as I was advised to do by a legal representative. Since I ignored the informal request to speak with me through email, his attorneys have now taken legal action against me forcing me to respond before going to court.

I now am required to submit a response through an official government site and pay a fee. He's basically claiming that I'm illegally living in our residence and that we haven't been in a relationship for several years and would like to have me removed. He has told his attorneys some false sob story about how terrible I am. He's said I'm basically squatting in his house and won't leave. This isn't true so I have no idea how he was even able to file this official claim, but I'm guessing he's lied extensively. I have consulted attorneys myself and have been getting legal advice.

The one thing I wanted to ask on here is, it ever a good idea to disclose the "BPD behaviors" to the court or attorneys? Or at least just tell them he's lying about the situation? I'm not really sure how to approach this. He told me his attorneys will be contacting me next week. Would it be a bad idea to tell them directly that he is being untruthful about the situation without incriminating myself?

I really wish they could be aware of the situation, although I understand he is their paid client so it might not be in my best interest. I'm only asking because my therapist actually suggested trying to talk to his attorneys... We are not in court yet, and trying to prevent it. What I do next will determine the course of action. More than likely his claim will be denied because I am a joint legal owner of the property. His attorneys may choose to take it to court if the claim is denied. I guess he's hired them to have full power of attorney and do as they see fit to move the case forward. If it goes to court, of course, it will be discovered that I'm legally allowed to be in our home. I've also been told it can actually be a criminal offense in our country for him to try to get me to leave our property unjustified. I just don't want it to go that far if not necessary.

I know I need to be really careful when it comes to legal and what information I disclose, but I'm so upset that he's actually getting me in trouble with the law because of his delusions. Does anyone have experience with this? 

[Sunflower123]

We are still living together, but he has discarded me. He hired attorneys and is giving false information to try to have me removed from our home just because he doesn't want me there anymore. Basically, his attorneys have tried contacting me and ignored it as I was advised to do by a legal representative. Since I ignored the informal request to speak with me through email, his attorneys have now taken legal action against me forcing me to respond before going to court.

I now am required to submit a response through an official government site and pay a fee. He's basically claiming that I'm illegally living in our residence and that we haven't been in a relationship for several years and would like to have me removed. He has told his attorneys some false sob story about how terrible I am. He's said I'm basically squatting in his house and won't leave. This isn't true so I have no idea how he was even able to file this official claim, but I'm guessing he's lied extensively. I have consulted attorneys myself and have been getting legal advice.

The one thing I wanted to ask on here is, it ever a good idea to disclose the "BPD behaviors" to the court or attorneys? Or at least just tell them he's lying about the situation? I'm not really sure how to approach this. He told me his attorneys will be contacting me next week. Would it be a bad idea to tell them directly that he is being untruthful about the situation without incriminating myself?

I really wish they could be aware of the situation, although I understand he is their paid client so it might not be in my best interest. I'm only asking because my therapist actually suggested trying to talk to his attorneys... We are not in court yet, and trying to prevent it. What I do next will determine the course of action. More than likely his claim will be denied because I am a joint legal owner of the property. His attorneys may choose to take it to court if the claim is denied. I guess he's hired them to have full power of attorney and do as they see fit to move the case forward. If it goes to court, of course, it will be discovered that I'm legally allowed to be in our home. I've also been told it can actually be a criminal offense in our country for him to try to get me to leave our property unjustified. I just don't want it to go that far if not necessary.

I know I need to be really careful when it comes to legal and what information I disclose, but I'm so upset that he's actually getting me in trouble with the law because of his delusions. Does anyone have experience with this? 

[scraps66]

Talking to "his" attorneys about BPD behaviors, one thing I would worry about would be that the L would take this to be a signal that they are on the gravy train.  This was my case, and during the 47 month union and all the couple's therapy - we were downright profitable to attorneys and therapists. 

You really need the right forum to bring up the behaviors.  I'm amazed that in my case, 4+ yr divorce, even with court-ordered psychological evaluation required, the NPD/BPD stuff never came up.  Possibly because I was spending a lot of time on trivial things that overshadowed the behavioral stuff.  Also, one reason it never came up, ex successfully avoided the evaluation with the help of the court.

[Tangled mangled]

Hi Sunflower
I have followed your posts in the past , our experiences are quite similar. I was married for 10 years and left the family home ( I wasn’t a joint owner but have matrimonial rights)

What I have found is that pwbpd use the legal system to intimidate you so that you forgo your rights. They want you to feel too broken to fight.
It may not be in your best interest to mention that he has bpd because if he’s not diagnosed ( even if he is), he is deemed to have capacity to make decisions even irrational ones, and that’s what matters to the court .
It’s better use of your time and resources to fight for what belongs to you rather than allow him use fear, obligation and guilt to force you into a position of accepting an unreasonably low offer. He is hoping you will walk away with nothing, that’s how unreasonable they are. I saw the letter my ex solicitor sent to him where even his own lawyer disagreed with him trying to keep all the equity in the property to himself. I’m still waiting to finalise my divorce.

My ex too started working out intensely 7 days a week, initially he was doing it for me but then it became he was doing it his mental health.

[EyesUp]

Hi Sunflower.

On a practical level, have you explored local legal resources for people in abusive relationships?

I understand that this has been going on for some time - It's got to be soul crushing. Forgive me if I missed something in prior posts, but please bring us up to speed re: what action, if any, you've been able to take in your own interest.

I cannot comment on legal process in your country.  However, given the relatively strong social safety network many countries have in that part of the world, you may be able to find an advocate who can advise on how or when or even if to respond to your partner's lawyers. You may also have other options to ensure that your interests are protected.

As a general rule, it's not in your interest to respond directly to opposing counsel - at least, not without guidance from your own legal counsel.

I will say this: If you feel like you're in danger, please get somewhere safe and make a call to the police. 

[ForeverDad]

I had a two year divorce and thereafter was in and out of court on parenting issues for several more years.  In all that time the court and lawyers had no interest in identifying mental health issues.  Even my excellent Custody Evaluator stated he wasn't there to diagnose either of us.

So the general observation here is to handle things as the court does, deal with the documented evidence.  Yes, you may not have much documentation but if you can provide details (such as you may recall from a log book, diary, journal or even emails and texts) then that should be sufficient to be considered as documentation.

Unfortunately my court and apparently others don't go back in history too far, my court stopped me from recounting incidents older than six months before the time we filed, saying it was legally stale.  Your lawyers may be able to determine how to expand back further, such as to demonstrate a pattern of behaviors.

Court will likely ignore as hearsay vague or expansive claims such as "he always..." or "she always..."

As EyesUp suggested, do not hesitate to consult DV resources for assistance.

[livednlearned]

What a challenging situation. One saving grace for me is that I was able to move out and get a clear head space. It's hard to think straight when it's happening under the same roof. To EyesUp's point, do you feel safe there?

He has told his attorneys some false sob story about how terrible I am. He's said I'm basically squatting in his house and won't leave. This isn't true so I have no idea how he was even able to file this official claim, but I'm guessing he's lied extensively. I have consulted attorneys myself and have been getting legal advice.

Where I live, pretty much anyone can initiate a legal action. Lawyers don't have to do fact-finding missions. They're supposed to be ethical and some are, but they're also paying bills and doing what they're hired to do. They are ethically bound to represent their clients and while sometimes it matters whether they believe that client or not, it can also not matter.

It sounds like the fact you are joint owners will put a pin in things. How can you remove someone squatting from a home she owns?

The one thing I wanted to ask on here is, it ever a good idea to disclose the "BPD behaviors" to the court or attorneys? Or at least just tell them he's lying about the situation? I'm not really sure how to approach this. He told me his attorneys will be contacting me next week. Would it be a bad idea to tell them directly that he is being untruthful about the situation without incriminating myself?

Without kids involved, I'm not sure it will matter?

my therapist actually suggested trying to talk to his attorneys...

Did your therapist suggest telling attorneys he had a diagnosis?

I would imagine (not sure of how the legal system works where you live, so this is about extrapolating my experiences if that's at all helpful) that they care more about how much of a losing battle this is. It's possible, if they are remotely grounded in reality, that showing up in front of a judge over "squatting" in a home owned by that person is just too ... weird and sad. In which case, they may care more about their professional reputation than getting money from their client.

[ForeverDad]

What is he trying to do versus what are you trying to do?

Neither of you are in your home countries evidently.  But you are joint owners of a home where you are now.

We aren't married, but in a legally binding relationship similar to marriage. We are each entitled to half of the condo and its contents (50/50).

Typically there are two choices, both usually are done in a legal or standard process.  (1) One of you buys out the other by paying one half of the current equity to the other.  (2) You both sell the home and split the equity (what proceeds you get after the mortgage  and home prep expenses are paid off).

Is that what his lawyers are tasked to do?  If not, what are the problems or issues that need to be overcome to resolve the fact that the relationship has ended and you both can walk away and restart your separate lives?

Anything else and it gets resolved in court, at least in most countries.  The advantage of court is that there are impersonal rules and processes that have been developed over time to handle most disagreements.  That removes the emotional and entitled demands from blocking the final outcome.  Court usually doesn't care about feelings and perceived slights, which helps both parties to get past the baggage of the past relationship.

[Sunflower123]

Is that what his lawyers are tasked to do?

No, they are tasked with trying to have me evicted from our property. I was served with an official claim (that I have to pay a fee because they filed & I must legally respond to) that I will not leave "his" property and he needs help to remove me. He does not believe I'm entitled to any compensation and is now denying our relationship and telling other people and me that I made it all up and I don't live in reality. 

He's told me that he doesn't care what happens to me at this point because this was all my fault and that's what I get.

He also keeps changing the number of years he claims to have given me notice to leave "his" house. It was 8 years, then 2 years, then 1.5, then I was never welcome there, and now the latest as of yesterday is that he gave me 4 years' notice (but we were never in a relationship)...   

[Turkish]

I wouldn't volunteer  to his attorneys. They work for him, in his best interests, not yours. They're trying to get you to volunteer information to serve their best interests.

[yellowbutterfly]

Oh this is all too familiar. The smear campaign and abuse of the legal system has started. I’m so sorry.

I won’t rehash my experience with my ex H, but he managed to make up countless lies, and have his lawyer and the court believe him. I lost my home for four months and even had to pay while he lived there. Do not put anything past him.

Please talk to a lawyer or legal case worker with experience in high conflict persons. This is not legal advice, but my attorney always told me we did not want to bring up his mental illnesses as the court would not care as others have said above.

Surround yourself with those who can help you. Do not trust him nor his lawyers and get professional advice. Is there a way that you can stay safe elsewhere and have no contact except through a mediator or your lawyer once you find someone?

[EyesUp]

@sunflower - didn't you mention that while you're not married, you have been in a civil union, or some other legal relationship?  How was that defined?  Do you have any documentation?  If yes, I would think that would go a long way to demonstrate that his claims are false.

Is the property in your name?  Have you made any payments?  Do you have a history of bills coming to your address?  All of these things may help to establish that you are entitled to remain in the property until a fair settlement can be reached.

How are you doing with identifying legal assistance?

[kells76]

Hey Sunflower123;

You must be under so much stress right now  glad you're here and able to share with us what's going on.

While you and I may be in different countries or areas, my H and I have also experienced receiving an "official claim" from a pwBPD (his kids' mom). Our experience was:

while the format/structure of the claim is "official", the contents are literally whatever the pwBPD wants to put in there.

I would encourage you not to be made uneasy by conflating the contents of the claim with the fact that it has been generated by an "official" process, if that makes sense. For example, a police report is an "official" report, but imagine someone making a police report that "space aliens implanted probes in my cats". The report is official but that doesn't make the contents real.

I also want to encourage you to consider what EyesUp and others are suggesting -- maybe you can do a quick Google search for "[City, Country] low cost legal aid" and see what options are available in your area. Many legal offices, both here in the USA and likely worldwide, will give you a free initial consultation. That means that you don't have to retain or prepay for a lawyer, they will just give you 30-60 minutes where you can describe your situation and they will let you know how things will go and what they'd recommend.

There are USA-based web sites where you can post legal questions and receive completely free advice, too. You can do another Google search for "[country] free online legal advice", there might be some options there if cost is an issue.

I hear a lot of strengths in your position, actually -- that you were in a legal relationship and are a legal owner of the property. Hold on to what's real. Remember that because of his disorder, things he says will feel very emotionally convincing despite having no basis in reality. For example, in reality, he likely cannot produce any evidence of his claims that "he gave you notice to leave X years ago". And like Turkish mentioned, you don't actually have to cooperate with his lawyers! Many of us here are "nice, cooperative" people. I wonder if it might actually feel good to stand up for yourself and decline to "work for them" -- you can work for you!

Looking forward to hearing updates about legal assistance -- I think there may be some paths forward for you there.

-kells76

[AskingWhy]

See the book, "Splitting," by lawyer/LCSW Bill Eddy.  He knows psychology and the law and might provide insight to your case.

I'd think the mental illness might help ypur case but each attorney has their own take.

Eddy advises telling your partner of his suspected diagnosis.

[ForeverDad]

See the book, "Splitting," by lawyer/LCSW Bill Eddy.  He knows psychology and the law and might provide insight to your case...

Eddy advises telling your partner of his suspected diagnosis.

I don't have all of William Eddy's books, but I do have "Splitting".  My divorce was long ago and I don't have the energy to re-read it.  Maybe AskingWhy can share where it is in there.

Most experience here is that telling a pwBPD (or probably too any acting-out PD) is not advised, especially if you're already in the midst of a difficult divorce.  Likely Denial and Blame Shifting would be the result.  If the spouse has been diagnosed, then the spouse should already know.  If the spouse hasn't been diagnosed, then as my court hinted strongly, who am I as someone without mental health education and licensing to judge someone else's mental health status?  (Yes, I know, I was married to my spouse for a dozen years so I have years of observation but that fact is ignored in court.)

As already mentioned, William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a must read.  He helps us to avoid common traps, missteps and mistakes in the legal arena.  It's inexpensive.  Even if you're not married, everything else explained and advised will apply to your custody and parenting efforts.

... As has been stated here, most of us never had successful mediations.  I sure didn't.  It's okay if sincere mediation attempts on your part fail.  It's not you, it's the unreasonable parent.

One thing you can do consistently at court and elsewhere is to be the person advocating practical solutions.  Eventually, perhaps not now, the professionals involved with court will notice you're not the one obstructing reasonable progress.

Court won't try to fix her.  They'll likely not even try to figure out WHY she's obstructive.  They will probably deal with her as she is.  Courts focus on documentation and documented incidents.  You would be wise to do the same...

[Cat Familiar]

Opposing counsel is not your friend or advocate. Use your own counsel to inform you of how much cooperation is legally mandated.

You mention you are co-owners of your home. What documentation do you have for that?