My husband's obsession with sex

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I know what some of you are going to say. "But all men are obsessed with sex!" Yeah, that's what he tells me too.

In my previous thread I explained how my husband's BPD-like traits got way worse right after we had our child. I distinctly remember a rage he got into while I was on maternity leave about me letting the junk mail pile up, while I'm sitting there in an armchair trying to nurse our baby. "What do you DO all day?" he asked, as if I'm on vacation. That was only the start of him constantly complaining about how I "don't pull [my] weight around here," how he works so much harder than me, and criticizing my parenting all the time, while at the same time claiming it's my job to do be the primary parent because "women are just better at it than men."

So after several months of this, he finally tells me that the reason he's "cranky" is because he doesn't get enough sex. If I would only have sex with him more, then everything would be fine. And he's stuck with that argument ever since.

Now, I do admit that my sexual desire plummeted while going through fertility treatments and pregnancy losses and finally getting pregnant and then having a C-section and then trouble breastfeeding and so on. I've heard that it's perfectly normal for that to happen. After all that, I just wanted my body to be mine again for a while.

I've tried to explain that to him, but from his perspective, once I "got what I wanted out of him" (our daughter), I was ready to discard him. Either that, or I don't want him anymore because he got fat (though he got fat YEARS before our daughter was born). Either way, it's most certainly NOT because of any sort of "abuse."

From my perspective, I lost sexual desire after going through the infertility/difficult pregnancy/childbirth, and then right after that my husband started abusing me, which took what little sexual desire I had left and stomped it right into the ground.

I've tried explaining all this to him. I've tried explaining to him that it's not a turn-on for him to scream at me that he hates me, throw insults at me, threaten to divorce me, throw things, break things, threaten to punch me, etc., all in front of our daughter. He'll do one of these rages, and then the very next day (or even later the same day), he's acting super horny and wants to make love. And then when I'm really not enthused about it, he gets into ANOTHER rage, and accuses me of "holding a grudge" and keeping the fight going, when he's ready to have "make-up sex." Of course we never really make up. He never apologizes or takes back anything he said or did.

It's gotten to the point where I can't say no to sex with him anymore. If I do, he gets into another rage. It doesn't matter how sleep-deprived I am, how recently he blew up at me, or any other circumstances, I just don't feel safe saying no to him. He says he has to have sex at least once a week, but that's really barely enough for him. (Weirdly, that was about our average before we had our daughter, and he didn't complain then.) He acts like his sex drive is some ticking time bomb that causes him to explode into a rage if he goes for more than a week without sex.

We've been doing couples counseling, and our counselor tried to explain to him that sex is not the problem in our relationship, it's a symptom of a bigger problem, but he keeps insisting that she just doesn't know what she's talking about. In our last session, he said he feels like I've got him locked in a dungeon and only feed him once a week, instead of every day, and when I do feed him it's like some old moldy bread or something.

My individual therapist says she thinks he has BPD, and sex is his way to try to fill the emptiness inside him. She's even told me, "there's no way to give him enough sex." I told her he said if he had it his way, he'd have sex every day, and she said, "And if you did, then he'd say he needs sex twice a day."

It's driving me crazy though because my husband says the problem is I'm a prude and just not horny enough. I keep telling him that "have sex with me or else I'll explode into a rage," is not a turn on (I think I once phrased that as "have sex or else I'll abuse you," but that made him really angry and insulted that I accused him of *abuse*!) I'm really the one abusing him here by depriving him of sex. Even if I point out that I never say no to him anymore, because I'm too afraid to, then he complains that I "just lie there instead of enjoying it." So not only am I never allowed to say no, but I also have to be passionate and enthusiastic about it and do all the specific sex acts he wants or then he still explodes into a rage.

I got to say, if this is just normal for a man in a romantic relationship, as he keeps claiming, then I can do without.

[Gerda]

I know what some of you are going to say. "But all men are obsessed with sex!" Yeah, that's what he tells me too.

In my previous thread I explained how my husband's BPD-like traits got way worse right after we had our child. I distinctly remember a rage he got into while I was on maternity leave about me letting the junk mail pile up, while I'm sitting there in an armchair trying to nurse our baby. "What do you DO all day?" he asked, as if I'm on vacation. That was only the start of him constantly complaining about how I "don't pull [my] weight around here," how he works so much harder than me, and criticizing my parenting all the time, while at the same time claiming it's my job to do be the primary parent because "women are just better at it than men."

So after several months of this, he finally tells me that the reason he's "cranky" is because he doesn't get enough sex. If I would only have sex with him more, then everything would be fine. And he's stuck with that argument ever since.

Now, I do admit that my sexual desire plummeted while going through fertility treatments and pregnancy losses and finally getting pregnant and then having a C-section and then trouble breastfeeding and so on. I've heard that it's perfectly normal for that to happen. After all that, I just wanted my body to be mine again for a while.

I've tried to explain that to him, but from his perspective, once I "got what I wanted out of him" (our daughter), I was ready to discard him. Either that, or I don't want him anymore because he got fat (though he got fat YEARS before our daughter was born). Either way, it's most certainly NOT because of any sort of "abuse."

From my perspective, I lost sexual desire after going through the infertility/difficult pregnancy/childbirth, and then right after that my husband started abusing me, which took what little sexual desire I had left and stomped it right into the ground.

I've tried explaining all this to him. I've tried explaining to him that it's not a turn-on for him to scream at me that he hates me, throw insults at me, threaten to divorce me, throw things, break things, threaten to punch me, etc., all in front of our daughter. He'll do one of these rages, and then the very next day (or even later the same day), he's acting super horny and wants to make love. And then when I'm really not enthused about it, he gets into ANOTHER rage, and accuses me of "holding a grudge" and keeping the fight going, when he's ready to have "make-up sex." Of course we never really make up. He never apologizes or takes back anything he said or did.

It's gotten to the point where I can't say no to sex with him anymore. If I do, he gets into another rage. It doesn't matter how sleep-deprived I am, how recently he blew up at me, or any other circumstances, I just don't feel safe saying no to him. He says he has to have sex at least once a week, but that's really barely enough for him. (Weirdly, that was about our average before we had our daughter, and he didn't complain then.) He acts like his sex drive is some ticking time bomb that causes him to explode into a rage if he goes for more than a week without sex.

We've been doing couples counseling, and our counselor tried to explain to him that sex is not the problem in our relationship, it's a symptom of a bigger problem, but he keeps insisting that she just doesn't know what she's talking about. In our last session, he said he feels like I've got him locked in a dungeon and only feed him once a week, instead of every day, and when I do feed him it's like some old moldy bread or something.

My individual therapist says she thinks he has BPD, and sex is his way to try to fill the emptiness inside him. She's even told me, "there's no way to give him enough sex." I told her he said if he had it his way, he'd have sex every day, and she said, "And if you did, then he'd say he needs sex twice a day."

It's driving me crazy though because my husband says the problem is I'm a prude and just not horny enough. I keep telling him that "have sex with me or else I'll explode into a rage," is not a turn on (I think I once phrased that as "have sex or else I'll abuse you," but that made him really angry and insulted that I accused him of *abuse*!) I'm really the one abusing him here by depriving him of sex. Even if I point out that I never say no to him anymore, because I'm too afraid to, then he complains that I "just lie there instead of enjoying it." So not only am I never allowed to say no, but I also have to be passionate and enthusiastic about it and do all the specific sex acts he wants or then he still explodes into a rage.

I got to say, if this is just normal for a man in a romantic relationship, as he keeps claiming, then I can do without.

[PeteWitsend]

I know a lot of couples fight over this issue; or if not fight, then disagree over what is too much/enough for them. 

Flying into a rage over it is of course NOT normal, but I think -given the potential BPD issues, you'd be having problems with him whether or not you had more frequent sex.

[zondolit]

Gerda,

While it may be normal for couples to have differing expectations on the frequency of sex, it is not at all normal to fly into a rage if you don't get what you want.

You're not the problem, Gerda.

But also: explaining yourself will not work with him and may make things worse. Look into the resources on not JADEing on this website. JADE = justify, argue, defend, explain.

zondolit

[Gerda]

Well, we're putting it to the test now. That is, whether he'll stop abusing me if he gets sex more frequently.

We arranged to drop off our four year old with Grandma every Sunday afternoon so we can spend some alone time together.

We did that for the first time last Sunday, and now it's been more than a week with no fights (which is very unusual for us. He usually gets into a rage at least once a week, if not more often). We had couples counseling on Tuesday, and he told the counselor that he thinks his strategy is working. The counselor seemed skeptical and asked if this is really a sustainable solution.

When the counselor asked me what I thought of it, I said the true test will come the next time I piss him off. So then she said some things about communication skills and so on.

I think this might be another one of those "good periods" in an abusive relationship that trick the victim into thinking things are really getting better, so I'm trying really hard not to fall for it, but it's still really hard to not get my hopes up. Whenever we go for more than a week without a blowup, he acts like it's this huge accomplishment. (And then when the blowup inevitably happens, he blames me for ruining it.)

I wonder if he's on his "best behavior" right now because he wants to prove to me and the counselor that he was right all along. That all the abuse that's happened in the last few years since our daughter was born was because he wasn't getting enough sex and that was all there was to it.

[ForeverDad]

After my son was born, my ex drastically cut back our past decade of frequent intimacies.  I did not rant or rage at all.  I never did.  But her occasional rants and rages became more frequent.

His claim that sex avoids his conflict does not make healthy sense.

Perhaps having a child made a change to the two-of-you relationship.  But it's far more concerning than just a numerical change from 2 to 3.

[SaltyDawg]

Gerda,

   I am a guy.  I can freely admit to enjoying the sexual experience as it brings a sense of intimacy and closeness.  However, I like to cuddle more than I like the act of sex.  I am with forever dad's assessment that this does not make sense.

   I am in agreement with your statement of your counselor being skeptical as I don't think this is a sustainable solution either.  I really hope that I am wrong; however, I think you might want to  treat this like a form of 'love bombing' or 'sex bombing'.  Being mindful of the sensitive nature of this topic, I would suggest perhaps explore this area with your own individual therapist as to his motivations, your motivations for doing this.  While he could be genuinely be there to reconnect emotionally with you with the physical manifestation of sex; however, please be prepared for the feelings of being used for your body if his theory comes crashing down the next time he gets pissed.

   I am also in agreement with your assessment that the true test of this will happen the next time you tick him off.

   I will now share with you my experience with sex and the borderline - on my first date with the woman who would become my wife, she invited me into her bed.  She went from wanting sex at least one time per day every day we were together (hypersexuality), until she found out she was pregnant, and then stopped immediately altogether, and had sex with me literally 7 times in the following decade (hyposexuality). 

   I was thoroughly confused, as I had trouble keeping up with her libido, only be left out in the cold with almost no sex at all the moment we found out she was pregnant with the test one urinates on.  Like so many other things in a borderline's life it was 'all or nothing' for her (black or white thinking).  I would have been happy with once or twice per week, and from what I have read the average american male it is 2-5 times per week.  In couple's therapy with my wife, that is what I am suggesting a compromise; however, none has been forthcoming for years.

   I did my research on this, and the results of this research are disturbing, so I am mentioning a trigger warning...   














...the results of this research, it is part of the love bombing phase of most cluster-B types and can manifest itself as sex bombing like it did with my wife towards me pretty much indicates almost all of them have been sexually abused as a child/tween/teen both men and women, even though women do outnumber the men by a significant margin.  The two primary reasons (which is 90% of the reasons given) why they behave this way is 1. Fear of Abandonment and/or 2.  Self-harm in the form of reliving their childhood trauma of sexual assault/rape or a combination of both.  While I don't mind the thought of them using sex as a form to feel close so they will not be abandoned, I do the same as a codependent; however, I am not at all comfortable with the idea of using me as a method to enact emotional self-harm to relive the trauma of the past.

   While I do mention reconnecting sexually in couple's therapy, I am not pressing it.  I am more strongly encouraging the enmeshment level snuggling we did at the beginning of our relationship where she would spoon and match my breathing as though we were one - that was just as intense as the sex she did at the time.  I can quite honestly say I am addicted to those kinds of behaviors, and that is what has been keeping me trapped in the relationship with my wife, are the extremely rare breadcrumbs of the overly excessive love/sex bombing the first few years of the relationship.

   I also did research on the duration of love bombing, it can last anywhere from a few days to 2 years, with the typical maximum of one year.  However, in my wife's case, she exceeded the maximum, so I thought it wasn't, boy did I fool myself (self gas-light myself in the extreme on this) as there were no red-flags other than 'this is too good to be true' (which actually prompted me to do research on it as the previous relationship I had was also a borderline (I attract 'crazy'); however that love bombing only lasted 6 months); but, with my wife, it lasted 5 years, 2 months, more than double the maximum textbook number.

   The uBPD/uNPDexgf freely told me she had been repeatedly raped as a child; however, my uBPD/uOCPDw has not, even though circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate otherwise (go back in my history about a year to see a detailed discussion on this if you are curious).

   So, the point I am trying to make is that an obsession with hypersexual behaviors, almost certainly indicates some kind of underlying sexual trauma at play with him when he was much younger.  Do only what you are comfortable with with him.  Sort out your feelings with your therapist, depending on how sensitive you are to these things, it has a good chance of messing with your head.

   Take care.  Also be sure to do self-care whatever that might look like for you.

SD

[ForeverDad]

Disclaimer... We are remote peer support here.  That is a limitation that your local counselor does not have, so understand that our experiences may not mirror yours.

That said, I have noticed that more than one or two members have reported that once a baby comes along the marital relationship changes.  I guess it hits everyone one way or another when the family scope changes.  Mix in perceptions and behaviors of an acting out personality disorder then it too often has quite negative results.

My ex had stated she had a bad childhood, her step father would rage and was bad at night.  Let's leave it at that.  Our marriage had become more dysfunctional over the years so in time I thought why not help her be happy with watching a baby discover the joys of life?  Oh how clueless I was.  Having children doesn't resolve serious mental health issues but it can and does make everything vastly more complicated.

I have two thoughts on my marriage's dilemmas.  (1) I was no longer perceived as her stable husband but instead as a father, reminder of her stepfather?  (2) It became worse as our child approached 3 years of age, that was mom's age when her SF entered her family.

Our experiences may or may not apply to your family's situation but all we can share is our collective wisdom, and quite some varieties too.  We hope at least some of it helps.

[ThanksForPlaying]

The red flag I see is the blame being shifted to you. You're absolutely correct that "acting like an a******" is not a turn on. If both of you felt attracted to each other and were trying to have sex more often, that's when hormone therapies could be effective.

As it stands, hormonal issues have little to do with the anger and abuse.

Keep in mind it's possible to exit a relationship even with kids involved. You shouldn't feel stuck with him because of a child (ironically he projects that YOU have now trapped HIM by having a child).

Take care of yourself first.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Gerda,  Raging is not ok.  Being disrespectful to you is not ok.  It is ok for you to place boundaries of how you wish to be treated, and it is ok to leave the room and come back when he is calm.

Everyone has provided several points of view, which are all valid.  I will deviate to try to provide some pure male points of view totally outside of a mental illness.  Yes- sex is important - but so is emotional connection for men.  As a father I felt both of those almost disappear when our kids were born.  Yes it is normal - but that doesn’t mean it is ok.   

1) Many men feel close emotionally to their wives through sex.  But if that is all, and her heart isn’t in it - it feels rapey and icky to a man, and he starts to “feel” off center in the relationship and even bitter.  So it needs to be more than just sex.  If other things are done in conjunction, sex is not needed as much. (Although it is still needed)

2) Men don’t feel tightly connected emotionally through talking like women do.  Instead, activities and spending dedicated time with them is really important, making him “feel” he is loved - because you went on a walk with him, or “x” activity.  You are likely exhausted and probably low on cash like most young families.  Don’t stop doing activities - even free ones like walking.   This means more to us than a deep emotional talk.

3) Non-sexual physical touch can be almost as powerful as sex in releasing dopamine and oxytocin.  Fingers on our shoulders, arms, hair etc. can be magical.  Making him feel “wanted” and important.  Kids can demand a lot of a mother’s time and also a mom can be “over stimulated” and flooded with oxytocin from breast feeding and toddler snuggles during the day.  The dad is getting nothing.  He needs it from you - and it sucks, but you are his only source.  So it is like a drug withdrawal - and can incite rage like any other drug withdrawal.  Not an excuse for the behavior - it is just a point of view.  More skin on skin stimulation is the last thing most new  mothers want - but it is what releases the natural happy hormones in us all - especially your husband.

4) “Smile” stupidly big like he is the best thing in your life when you see him walk in the room or get home from work - even though you are exhausted.   

5) Tell him “Thank You” for working hard for the family and giving  you the ability to stay home and raise the kids.  Empathize with him that you know it is thankless, but you appreciate him a ton for the experience of staying home and his gift to you.  He will feel appreciated and respected.  He could be feeling taken advantage of.  Make sure he knows how much you appreciate him.

So…easy male “hacks”
1) Sex to connect emotions (be engaged)
2) Activities together - just the two of you where your attention is on him only (not the kids)
3) Random non-sexual physical touches
4) Smile big at him when you see him (regardless of how tired you are)
5) Express appreciation and respect for his hard work for the family.

These 5 - especially the first three, try them and see if it reduces the  tension building.  It could be just love drug (hormone) withdrawal that can happen to any guy.  He may be taking it much harder than most, or - could have something deeper going on.  Clearly he is expressing his feelings (good that he isn’t brooding and holding it in with resentment) - but bad that it is disproportionate.  Talking about what level of emotions you are comfortable with is important, and putting in a needed boundary to protect your feelings.

 

[Cat Familiar]

My ex husband behaved similarly to your husband, Gerda, with the pouting, complaining, and raging about the lack of sex in our relationship. He even started marking the calendar days we had sex for proof of its lack.

We didn’t have a child, but he did have a history of multiple infidelities, and due to that, I had almost completely lost any sexual desire for him. He turned that issue around and blamed me for his inability to keep it in his pants.

I tried at first to “be a good wife” and be compliant with his demands, but the raging, the insufferable behavior, the irresponsibility, and the abuse, put the final nail in the coffin and I ended the marriage.

[jaded7]

 "What do you DO all day?" he asked, as if I'm on vacation. That was only the start of him constantly complaining about how I "don't pull [my] weight around here," how he works so much harder than me, and criticizing my parenting all the time, while at the same time claiming it's my job to do be the primary parent because "women are just better at it than men."


Now, I do admit that my sexual desire plummeted while going through fertility treatments and pregnancy losses and finally getting pregnant and then having a C-section and then trouble breastfeeding and so on. I've heard that it's perfectly normal for that to happen. After all that, I just wanted my body to be mine again for a while.

I've tried to explain that to him, but from his perspective, once I "got what I wanted out of him" (our daughter), I was ready to discard him. Either that, or I don't want him anymore because he got fat (though he got fat YEARS before our daughter was born). Either way, it's most certainly NOT because of any sort of "abuse."

From my perspective, I lost sexual desire after going through the infertility/difficult pregnancy/childbirth, and then right after that my husband started abusing me, which took what little sexual desire I had left and stomped it right into the ground.

I've tried explaining all this to him. I've tried explaining to him that it's not a turn-on for him to scream at me that he hates me, throw insults at me, threaten to divorce me, throw things, break things, threaten to punch me, etc., all in front of our daughter. He'll do one of these rages, and then the very next day (or even later the same day), he's acting super horny and wants to make love. And then when I'm really not enthused about it, he gets into ANOTHER rage, and accuses me of "holding a grudge" and keeping the fight going, when he's ready to have "make-up sex." Of course we never really make up. He never apologizes or takes back anything he said or did.

It's gotten to the point where I can't say no to sex with him anymore. If I do, he gets into another rage. It doesn't matter how sleep-deprived I am, how recently he blew up at me, or any other circumstances, I just don't feel safe saying no to him. He says he has to have sex at least once a week, but that's really barely enough for him. (Weirdly, that was about our average before we had our daughter, and he didn't complain then.) He acts like his sex drive is some ticking time bomb that causes him to explode into a rage if he goes for more than a week without sex.


It's driving me crazy though because my husband says the problem is I'm a prude and just not horny enough. I keep telling him that "have sex with me or else I'll explode into a rage," is not a turn on (I think I once phrased that as "have sex or else I'll abuse you," but that made him really angry and insulted that I accused him of *abuse*!) I'm really the one abusing him here by depriving him of sex. Even if I point out that I never say no to him anymore, because I'm too afraid to, then he complains that I "just lie there instead of enjoying it." So not only am I never allowed to say no, but I also have to be passionate and enthusiastic about it and do all the specific sex acts he wants or then he still explodes into a rage.

I got to say, if this is just normal for a man in a romantic relationship, as he keeps claiming, then I can do without.

Oh my gosh Gerda. You have a right to say no to sex. You had a baby for crying out loud.

I experienced this myself....if I said no to sex, which I did precisely two times, she would explode at me and a huge 'fight' would erupt, with blaming and yelling at name-calling at me.

It absolutely baffled me, because she said no to sex all the time...and I would respect her no. After all, isn't that the adult and respectful thing to do?

And who in their right mind thinks that yelling at your partner and verbally abusing them makes you want to have sex with them?

My ex was a staunch feminist...I assumed she understood the right of a person to say 'no'.

I see so much here, the complete failure to acknowledge the verbal abuse and things he said, the shifting goalposts (if you do have sex, you did it 'wrong' and he's still angry), the telling YOU what YOU think and what your intentions are.

[ForeverDad]

My ex had breastfeeding worries and her nurse recommended the natural herb OTC Fenugreek to improve milk supply.  FYI

[Justapotato]

Sounds like he can’t deal with the baby getting all the attention. And sex is how he can feel important. Unreasonable? Yes. But that’s BPD for you… sorry for your situation. We have also been through similar with sex and I’ve just felt no sex drive at all but apparently one sex act a day will solve that… for him anyway.

I would suggest finding other ways to involve him with to the baby to create a team bond with the three of you rather than a competition for affection. But the way I’m feeling with my partner now I’m more tempted to just say run for the hills ☹️ Your baby is the priority now and then you, and then him. And if he can’t handle that then that’s his fault.

[15years]

People are full of emotions and sexuality is such a central part. I think the main problem is emotional, but it's easy to draw the conclusion that sex is the problem, like a projection.

So my contribution to this discussion would be to not pay too much attention to the sexual problem. Easier said than done because we often exist in a bubble in a relationship. And then again - What should we place our attention on exactly. The emotional problem is so unclear.

Or should we just accept that it's unsolvab and mind our own business - or less bitterly put - Focus on our own position in the relationship. Not try to solve what causes the other persons unhappiness.
Or am i being too cynical?

[Cat Familiar]

15years makes a good point: the “sex problem” stems from deeper issues in the complainant and/or the relationship.

With pwBPD we acknowledge that there is a tendency to seek an external *fix*—whether it be through a romantic connection, substance abuse, shopping/gambling addiction, etc. It seems that pwBPD think that the problem is outside of themselves and that the solution must be as well.

Having experienced the ever present sexual demands from an eternally unsatisfied pwBPD, the relationship with my ex deteriorated precipitously over time. Any relief he felt from the sexual connection was short lived and he wanted more, like a junky wants his next fix.

Sexual intimacy lost any sense of connection and pleasure for me, as it became a *chore* rather than lovemaking and I felt used and depersonalized.   It’s difficult to remain in love with someone who treats you like an object, in addition to having a variety of other dysfunctional behaviors.

[ForeverDad]

15years makes a good point: the “sex problem” stems from deeper issues in the complainant and/or the relationship.

Sexual intimacy lost any sense of connection and pleasure for me, as it became a *chore* rather than lovemaking and I felt used and depersonalized.

I had been married for over a decade and we did have frequent intimacy.  Then we had a child, I had hoped it would make her less unhappy, but it blew her prior issues to new highs, especially rampant rants and rages.  And one of the consequences was that intimacy became relatively rare.  CF mentioned it became a *chore* but for me it became repeatedly sabotaged and eventually a *transaction*.  All too soon she was my Ex.

This reminded me that my ex, in the final couple years, would give hints in the morning that later at night she'd be willing.  But during that day or evening she was sure to find something to get upset about or do something that ruined the mood for me, so no fun that day.  And in the final months she exclaimed, "I feel like a prostitute, I ought to get paid!"  I didn't reply verbally but told myself, "Well, you sure wouldn't earn much..."

Disclaimer, besides the dysfunction we face, this may also be undertones of male versus female perceptions.

[Cat Familiar]

Disclaimer, besides the dysfunction we face, this may also be undertones of male versus female perceptions.

  At this point I can laugh about the dearth of sex in my current relationship. For some reason that he has never articulated, at one point he said he “didn’t feel safe” with me and since that moment, we’ve never again had sex.

The only thing I can think of is that I had repeatedly confronted him about his alcohol abuse, and his response was that I “hated” him. It seems any thing that possibly resembles criticism equals hatred in his mind. Understandable, due to the abuse he suffered from his malignant narcissist father.

Ironically, this was one of the most passionate relationships I’ve ever had. And at the outset, I had assumed I could be totally candid with him and tell him everything. Of course, once the BPD honeymoon phase wore off a couple of years later, the rules had changed.

It wasn’t that I had changed—I weigh the same as I did in high school; people tell me I look just like I did 20 years ago (obviously more grey hair and fine lines).

What had changed was that I no longer saw the idealized version of him. I was seeing his flaws and that was enough for him to turn his back on intimacy with me. It certainly wasn’t disinterest or unwillingness on my part. Damn BPD!

[15years]

At this point I can laugh about the dearth of sex in my current relationship. For some reason that he has never articulated, at one point he said he “didn’t feel safe” with me and since that moment, we’ve never again had sex.

Damn it, this is what I have been telling my wife lately too, now I need to find a new reason 

[EyesUp]

We've been doing couples counseling, and our counselor tried to explain to him that sex is not the problem in our relationship, it's a symptom of a bigger problem, but he keeps insisting that she just doesn't know what she's talking about. In our last session, he said he feels like I've got him locked in a dungeon and only feed him once a week, instead of every day, and when I do feed him it's like some old moldy bread or something.

My individual therapist says she thinks he has BPD, and sex is his way to try to fill the emptiness inside him. She's even told me, "there's no way to give him enough sex." I told her he said if he had it his way, he'd have sex every day, and she said, "And if you did, then he'd say he needs sex twice a day."

I got to say, if this is just normal for a man in a romantic relationship, as he keeps claiming, then I can do without.

Hi there.  There may be some parallels with your H's wishes and what I experienced with my uBPDxw... Since you're posting on the conflicted board, I'll share how things played out for me...

My ex had a very healthy libido and I felt like we were very compatible for the first few years we were together.  However, even before we had kids, she expressed that she wanted to have as much or more sex, but she wanted me to consistently initiate - she didn't want to have to initiate even part of the time. 

This was a bit confusing to me - I felt like, in an ideal relationship, both partners are free to express interest and attraction anytime - it shouldn't fall to just one.  I've come to understand that what my ex was telling me was that she wanted more validation (though she didn't want to provide any herself), and that she felt validation from me when I initiated sex. My ex felt empowered by feeling validated, even though she cast herself in a passive role.

It might not be helpful to seek parallels, but as I read your story, I couldn't help but wonder if your H feels that he needs a lot of sex because for him it's about constantly (re)confirming that you like him, accept him, want to be with him, etc.  As your story implies, it's not just about sex - rather, it's about what sex means for your H.

i.e., somewhat like my ex, your H attributes a LOT of value - probably his self-value - to intimacy. For him, it's not just part of a healthy relationship, it's the single most important part of the relationship - a relationship barometer of sorts.  If you're having sex, then everything must be ok - i.e., he's ok.  If for any reason you're not having sex, then something must be wrong... with the relationship - or with him! 

If you're conflicted about where to go with this, you might try to validate him some other way.   Is it possible to make him feel "ok" by letting him know that you're happy to simply sit together and watch a movie (or whatever), and that while that doesn't automatically mean you want sex right this very minute, or the moment the credits roll, of course you're still looking forward to sex sometime later (or whenever the mood strikes at some other time). 

It sounds like even raising this might set him off - he might only hear "not now" (=no) vs. "later" (=yes! but later).  Have you explored anything along these lines with the couples therapist?

When I reached the point of no return and accepted that I needed to divorce, I stopped initiating sex.  At that point, my ex filed for divorce and stated - in writing - "withholding intimacy is emotional abuse" (always the victim) - and yet I was the one expected to initiate, all the time, for years (including immediately after she raged for whatever reason - in order to confirm that "all is good").  I have to say: I don't miss that!

Hang in there.

[Gerda]

Well, since I first posted this thread, things have been somewhat better, in that he hasn't gotten into a full screaming and yelling rage in a while. But now I'm thinking if this is the best we can do, it's still not that great.

I've been extra careful to walk on eggshells and not say anything that triggers his anger, and I've also been having sex with him whenever he wants and never saying no to him about anything. So I guess he probably thinks things are going great because he's getting what he wants. At least, it looks like we got through the holidays without a major blowup.

He did have a bit of an episode when we were invited to a Christmas party for our church. His mother even arranged for a teenage babysitter for our daughter so we could all go together (it was a party that was not for kids). But he didn't want to go, and then he did that thing where he got mad because I wanted to go and decided to go without him while he stayed home with our daughter. I could tell that whole day he was getting more and more agitated. He even said that I need to stay home and do some chores that need to be done instead of "doing all this socializing" (when I hadn't been to a social event without my kid for months). Finally, when it was almost time for me to go and I was getting ready, he brought up the guy from our church that I'm cheating on him with (I'm NOT, by the way!), and sarcastically told me to say hi to him for me. I was like "sure!" and left.

I tried my best to have a good time at the party without him, but of course having that confrontation right before distracted me quite a bit. At least by the time I got home, he was calmed back down, though I got home fairly late (like I said, it wasn't a child-oriented party), and he hadn't even put our daughter to bed. They were up watching TV and I had to put her to bed. Good thing it wasn't a school night.

I'm just giving this example, because I'm realizing things like this aren't going away even if he does get more sex. Socializing has always been a trigger for him even before we had our daughter (back when he was supposedly getting enough sex). He thinks all my friends hate him and are secretly conspiring against him. He doesn't want to go to parties we're both invited to, and then gets angry when I go without him. At the beginning of our relationship, I thought it was social anxiety, which I struggle with too, so I tolerated it. But while I've gotten better, he's only gotten worse, which makes me suspect it's more of a BPD thing.

And he gets jealous if I'm social with any other men and has accused me of cheating on him before (even with a friend of mine who is very openly gay), and now he thinks I'm cheating on him with this guy from church. Just because he saw this guy very innocently talk to me once or twice during social time after the service. He even threatened to "have a talk" with the guy after church one day and tell him to back off, which sounded vaguely threatening to me. I wondered if he was going to cause a scene right there at church accusing the guy of sleeping with me, but that turned out to be yet another empty threat. Or at least he hasn't actually done it yet.

I've just been dealing with these insecurities of his for so long I'm getting tired of it.

[ForeverDad]

I was the husband and my ex too claimed I shouldn't be conversing with women even in public.  The suspicions didn't get better, only got worse.  Nothing I tried worked.  Finally, there was one incident too many, police responded and the marriage imploded.

My advice?  You can't predict the future.  Nor can you guarantee your own marriage will last.  So do some basic research.  Privately and confidentially consult with lawyers (not the family's lawyers) so that you at least have some idea where you stand legally and learn how to preserve your financial security as much as possible.

[SaltyDawg]

Gerda,

   Thank you for sharing your update.  I will share with you a few things that caught my eye....

Well, since I first posted this thread, things have been somewhat better, in that he hasn't gotten into a full screaming and yelling rage in a while. But now I'm thinking if this is the best we can do, it's still not that great.

It sounds like you are somewhat disappointed in your husband's efforts especially in light of his paranoia of you having sex with other men.


I've been extra careful to walk on eggshells and not say anything that triggers his anger, and I've also been having sex with him whenever he wants and never saying no to him about anything. So I guess he probably thinks things are going great because he's getting what he wants. At least, it looks like we got through the holidays without a major blowup.

Gerda, how does having sex with your husband on demand make you feel?  Is this emotionally healthy?  What do you, Gerda, want it to be?  Do you think this is sustainable?  Do you think the cost of giving your body, on demand, to your husband was worth him not having a 'major' blow-up?  What would happen if you continue to give your body like you are now, and he does have a 'major' episode?

You are probably right about him, he is using sex as a barometer on how your relationship is going.  I know I did before I found out about BPD, and I am a guy, and can admit this.  So, please be mindful of this as you move forward together and in couple's therapy.


He did have a bit of an episode [...] he brought up the guy from our church that I'm cheating on him with (I'm NOT, by the way!), and sarcastically told me to say hi to him for me.  [...] I'm realizing things like this aren't going away even if he does get more sex. [...] he gets jealous if I'm social with any other men and has accused me of cheating on him before (even with a friend of mine who is very openly gay), and now he thinks I'm cheating on him with this guy from church. [...] I've just been dealing with these insecurities of his for so long I'm getting tired of it.

I've been accused of having sex and/or affairs with my children's playdate mothers, a licensed therapist, an ordained minister by my pwBPD - my wife is tremendously insecure too, it is part of the temporary paranoia under stress symptom of BPD.  It can be very tiring.  I've addressed twice in couple's therapy, the first one didn't want to deal with it, and the 2nd one listened and still accused me of having an affair when I didn't.  As a result, I am still quite isolated from having any real friends in person - which I don't quite like; however, like you it keeps the peace - but at what cost?  This is one of the things I am currently working on with my own therapist, but I need to find a way to move forward without making my wife too anxious - I still am averse to making new friends in real life.  The most recent incident was this past February, almost a year ago, I suspect her individual therapist worked on it with her, as I supplied both the couple's therapist and individual therapist of the licensed therapists transcript that led up to the allegation.

Perhaps in your next couple's therapy, bring this and related topics up with specific examples in order to alleviate some of your DH's insecurities - just a suggestion.

I am a firm advocate of self-care, please take time to do that for yourself, whatever that may look like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Gerda]

SaltyDawg,

The whole concept that being threatened and coerced into having sex being a turn-off for me seems completely incomprehensible to my husband. It's gotten to the point where I absolutely don't enjoy having sex with him at all anymore. For me, I have to feel relaxed and comfortable with the person I'm with. That's become impossible with him.

I'm starting to see how he's really got a problem with the concept of other people having different feelings than him about things in general. Since he's really horny all the time, then I should be too, and if I'm not, that means there must be something wrong with me. Of course it would have nothing to do with anything he's done (except maybe something trivial, like getting fat).

Also, as far as using sex as a barometer, that does seem likely. He's even said things like, "Doing this proves that you love me." And it's not like I've been deceptive with him either. I've said things to him like, "Yeah, and also if I don't do it with you, you'll punish me somehow." But then he kind of - blows it off.

My therapist has suggested a couple of times "What if you just don't have sex with him when you don't feel like it?" But considering the kinds of threats he's made before when I tried that, I usually don't feel like risking it. The last time I said "not tonight," he got so angry he had to go take a walk around the block a couple of times to cool down. Then later he acted like he handled that really well and deserved kudos.

He's also said things before like "withholding sex is the absolute worst thing you can do to your romantic partner." I've thought, "worse than beating them up? Killing them?" That worries me because he has threatened to beat me up before, and if saying no to sex is the absolute worst thing I can do to him, then that might justify whatever he might do to me in retaliation, if you know what I mean.

[SaltyDawg]

  Trigger Warning












Gerda,


The whole concept that being threatened and coerced into having sex being a turn-off for me seems completely incomprehensible to my husband. It's gotten to the point where I absolutely don't enjoy having sex with him at all anymore. For me, I have to feel relaxed and comfortable with the person I'm with. That's become impossible with him.

I am going to be blunt, that sounds a lot like rape to me - being mindful of the extreme negative connotations here is the dictionary definition of rape

Source:  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape

1: unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception

Do you think this definition applies to you as the victim and your husband as the aggressor?

Also, as far as using sex as a barometer, that does seem likely. He's even said things like, "Doing this proves that you love me." And it's not like I've been deceptive with him either. I've said things to him like, "Yeah, and also if I don't do it with you, you'll punish me somehow." But then he kind of - blows it off.

I also use it as a barometer along with other expressions of love languages; however, I do not force or coerce my wife to have sex with me.  She was hypersexual (every day we were together and occasionally more), until we became pregnant, and ever since she has been hyposexual (about once per year with the last time almost two years ago)


My therapist has suggested a couple of times "What if you just don't have sex with him when you don't feel like it?" But considering the kinds of threats he's made before when I tried that, I usually don't feel like risking it. The last time I said "not tonight," he got so angry he had to go take a walk around the block a couple of times to cool down. Then later he acted like he handled that really well and deserved kudos.

He's also said things before like "withholding sex is the absolute worst thing you can do to your romantic partner." I've thought, "worse than beating them up? Killing them?" That worries me because he has threatened to beat me up before, and if saying no to sex is the absolute worst thing I can do to him, then that might justify whatever he might do to me in retaliation, if you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean, and I sense you are absolutely terrified of your husband around this, you feel as though you are possibly in fear of your life or at a very minimum of being beaten up severely if you don't have sex with your husband on his terms - it sounds like the definition of rape to me - please talk more with your therapist on this as you are at that line where consensual sex and rape is blurred by how you, your husband, and your therapist word things.

Here is an article on marital rape, it has been a crime for decades in most of the civilized world:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_in_the_United_States & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_laws_by_country

Being mindful that your therapist is a mandated reporter (in most states), you might want to ask your therapist this question in your next session with your therapist.

At a minimum, if you don't already have a safety plan in place, you may want to get one, here is the bpdfamily one:  https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf

If you want to do a threat assessment, this is the most accurate one:  https://www.mosaicmethod.com/ use the 'domestic violence - male offender' assessment.

I am keeping it real here, it is not my intent to scare you here, but to make you aware of the potential danger you are in.  It is not okay to be treated this way by your husband.  Also, from what I you have shared, I feel you could be in a lot more danger if you report him, so it is very important to have a safety plan, especially if he has ever beaten you before, physically, this would include a single slap or hit.

Carry your phone on you at all times, make sure you have at least 50% charge or better.  Call 911 the moment he hits you (or the emergency number of your country).

I feel terrible that you are in this position right now, and you feel compelled to service your H on his terms when you 'don't absolutely enjoy sex with him'.  Please talk to your therapist on this, make a plan, and take steps to do what is best for you, Gerda.

Take care, good luck, and you are in my prayers.

SD

[EyesUp]

Hi Gerda,

SaltyDog has some important points. 

I know it can be difficult to reconcile support and opinions from anonymous people online with a growing sense of discomfort and lack of safety at home.

One thing that SaltyDog suggested that I think bears repeating is how to open up with your therapist.  I want to come back to this because your therapist might have ideas about additional local resources that could be very helpful. 

i.e., in addition to the practical advice to protect yourself (keep your phone charged, consider recording discretely, etc.), there are probably local resources for women who are exploring how to manage - or exit - an abusive situation.  Sex on demand is never ok, and sex under threat of violence is also never ok - so I would encourage you to seek local resources and support as you navigate next steps.  Your T should be able to help point you toward specific local resources.

In parallel, this community will also be here for you.

Please keep us posted.

[Gerda]

Honestly, I don't know how worried I should be about him physically assaulting me. He hasn't actually done that, and he hasn't threatened to do that in maybe a year or so.

But then again, I dunno. He hasn't expressed any remorse whatsoever for threatening me before. Instead, he's justified it. He says I piss him off really bad and push his buttons.

He has other tactics though. One time when I said no, it was when my car was getting repaired, and I was borrowing his car to get to work. He said if I don't have sex with him, he won't let me borrow his car anymore, and I'll just have to find some other way to get to work, so I gave him and had sex with him because I needed to get to work.

He also threatens to divorce me and kick me out of the house a lot.

These kinds of things make me think I am going to have to go ahead and divorce him. We're in marriage counseling, but he really doesn't seem to be taking it seriously (keeps saying the marriage counselor has no idea what she's talking about), and I really don't see how I'm ever going to trust him or feel comfortable with him again after all this.

[Cat Familiar]

I was in a similar situation with my ex. Instead of just being *constantly horny* I think it’s more like a sex addiction. He’s using your body as a drug to modify his feelings of discomfort. It’s no wonder you’re not interested. He’s not meeting you as an equal and making love. And if you feel any fear about not complying with his demands, this is not a healthy place to be for you and has ominous repercussions for your relationship.

[SaltyDawg]

Gerda,

The threat assessment I listed in my previous post will give you a pretty good idea on how worried you should be.  If it is rated 'high' there is a 'high' chance.  Most people score between 3 and 9 on this assessment on a scale of 1 to 10.

Honestly, I don't know how worried I should be about him physically assaulting me. He hasn't actually done that, and he hasn't threatened to do that in maybe a year or so.

The fact of the matter is that he HAS threatened you in the past with this.  If you have been complacent to appease him, he does not have a reason to threaten you more recently.  Since he has threatened you, it is many more times likely he will do this if he is triggered, than if had not made this threat in the past.


But then again, I dunno. He hasn't expressed any remorse whatsoever for threatening me before. Instead, he's justified it. He says I piss him off really bad and push his buttons.

Please repeat that aloud, let yourself hear this over and over again.  How does this make you feel for your own safety?  If your best friend, and their spouse told your best friend this, what would you recommend to your best friend?


He has other tactics though. One time when I said no, it was when my car was getting repaired, and I was borrowing his car to get to work. He said if I don't have sex with him, he won't let me borrow his car anymore, and I'll just have to find some other way to get to work, so I gave him and had sex with him because I needed to get to work.

This is straight out coercion, this is not okay.  Same question as the previous one, what would you tell your best friend if their spouse did this to them?


He also threatens to divorce me and kick me out of the house a lot.

My wife previously did that to me +/- 50 times, until I called her bluff, in front of the couple's therapist we use, this is the point in my marriage where the balance of power shifted away from my spouse towards me.  I feel you may be at the point where you might want to call this his bluff on this - if he is bluffing, it will shift the power in your relationship dynamic to you, as he will back down, and no longer do it, as he knows you are serious enough to consider leaving him.  You can see my more recent comments on this here at:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357377.msg13206521#msg13206521


These kinds of things make me think I am going to have to go ahead and divorce him. We're in marriage counseling, but he really doesn't seem to be taking it seriously (keeps saying the marriage counselor has no idea what she's talking about), and I really don't see how I'm ever going to trust him or feel comfortable with him again after all this.

Unless he changes in a meaningful way, please do what is best for you,

If you are seriously considering divorce, the best book on the subject is "Splitting" by Billy Eddy and Randi Kreger, it is filled with excellent advice, well worth the investment.

Take care by doing self-care.

SD