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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: I need help on how to handle a divorce  (Read 272 times)
Haplo84
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 2


« on: January 16, 2024, 09:56:16 PM »

Hello everyone, I recently separated from my ex at the beginning of December. This is difficult to go through so please bear with me. She cheated on me, and we have three children 3,6, and 9. I've been trying to talk to her about going through the divorce issues and have been trying to get a consensus, but she has been battling me at every turn because I believe she is now splitting me after I kicked her out because she would not end the relationship. Originally, we were agreeing to 50/50 custody and that we would have 6 months from the date of the divorce or start of the relationship agreement to introduce any potential new partners to the children. But this was before a lot of stuff started happening. She has been acting completely out of sorts and I have been extremely worried about her mental health. I finally broke down and requested her to take a drug test which she came back positive for.  I now have concerns that she may be potentially using but the next test came back as negative after admitting on the first test she had impulsiveness that led to her buying something that she shouldn't have to help her address a recurring pain issue with her back. I know that the person with BPD will Lie and that is part of my issue. She is currently living with the FP in someone's Livingroom where they are supposedly paying. The last time I saw her she had several what I thought was allergic reaction welts all over her body. I later learned that the place is infested with bed bugs. She has cut herself all from basically all of her friends and family besides small chat and she seems to be avoiding spending time with her kids, she blames me because I have been actively trying to address issues with the us and the divorce (honestly, I don't want it, but I do not see a different way with her continued actions).  She does know that she had BPD and I have tried to get her to go to therapy, but she has bluntly stated that she hasn't because she is in denial and knows it? It's weird to hear that from someone. She has said herself that she needs to go to therapy. My problem is that I went to see my lawyer today about this and he suggested that I go for full custody (please understand I in no way want to keep the children from their mom. When she wasn't having issues as badly, I honestly think she was a good mom before this). She has repeatedly said that she was going to go against any of our prior agreements because things "change" and I honestly can't deal with the idea of the FP being introduce to the kids knowing now how their relationships can work especially in crisis mode. Honestly her attitude scares me a lot because this is not the person I knew, and a lot of her attitude started happening after I kicked her out because she wouldn't break the relationship. I want it written out in the divorce that she has to seek therapy and follow the plan set out by her therapist, that she has to provide proof of a healthy residence, and honestly because I am worried about her instability in this new relationship that is occurring in an awful environment that she continue drug testing because I cannot imagine why else she would be willing to live like that. I'm honestly very concerned what her reaction is going to be when she sees that I am requesting full custody until she meets the above. Does anyone else who has had a similar situation have any advice on how to potentially handle this? Is this something I should try to inform her of and explain my reasoning beforehand to mitigate any possible problems from her. She has never been physically violent towards me nor the children, she has expressed guilt several times over with what has happened, and she says her goal is to get on her own two feet to be "worthy of her children's love". I know this is flawed thinking and will not fix her self-worth issue, but I really have no clue on how to move forward. This sounds terrible but even though I'm filing for divorce I do want her to get help her because she really needs it, but I do not want this to become I am a terrible person and her to potentially start bad mouthing me to the kids in the future. Sadly, while I have learned a lot by educating myself, I am still open to reconciling and don't want to possibly ruin that either because to me when she wasn't full blown in this mindset, she was a good person, very caring, loving, and extremely attentive to her children. We had been together for almost 11 years and married for 9. Please if someone could shed some light/wisdom/help I would very much appreciate it.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18204


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2024, 12:27:55 AM »

She cheated on me, and we have three children 3,6, and 9... she has been battling me at every turn because I believe she is now splitting me after I kicked her out because she would not end the relationship... She is currently living with the FP in someone's Livingroom where they are supposedly paying... she seems to be avoiding spending time with her kids...

Your priority has to be the children, not your soon-to-be ex-spouse (stbEx).  I know it's hard but once the family fractured your priorities needed to change.  The children are the top priority, they're minors, just kids.  You're also a high priority since you need all your wits about you to care for them.  As every air flight starts, "In the event of an emergency, put on your oxygen mask first, then help others.  You aren't any help others without your own oxygen mask on."

My problem is that I went to see my lawyer today about this and suggested that I go for full custody (please understand I in no way want to keep the children from their mom. When she wasn't having issues as badly, I honestly think she was a good mom before this)...

I want it written out in the divorce that she has to seek therapy and follow the plan set out by her therapist, that she has to provide proof of a healthy residence, and honestly because I am worried about her instability in this new relationship that is occurring in an awful environment that she continue drug testing because I cannot imagine why else she would be willing to live like that.

When I divorced, my court and all the professionals associated with the court studiously ignored all mental illness aspects.  In William Eddy's most excellent (and for us, essential) handbook, one of several, "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" he stated that court assumes conflict and misbehavior is due to the separation and divorce, that most people calm down once the marriage is unwound.  Sadly, about10-15% of cases have their issues rooted in acting-out personality disorders.  Courts generally ignore that and just deal with the facts and documented evidence.  (You would do well to follow that pattern.  You couldn't "fix" your spouse and court won't even try.)  "He always..." or "She always..." is essentially meaningless without documentation and so is maybe heard and then set aside as hearsay.

Continuing my story, no one listened to me.  Though I knew her best, for over a decade, I was ignored since I was not trained as a psychological expert.  It was not until nearly six years after the final decree that the decision finally put in writing, "This magistrate is very concerned whether it is in {child}'s best interest to allow him to spend significant periods of time with Mother... Although the Court is inclined to order Mother to have individual counseling, there is no {submitted} evidence that Mother has the funds to participate in such counseling or insurance to cover the cost."  But it was just noted, not ordered.  I had already had full custody for a few years but that hearing was when I finally got majority parenting time.

While court may eventually be willing to limit the other parent's time with the kids, it's unlikely it would link parenting time to her cooperating with therapy sessions.  Maybe, but unlikely because how could anyone know whether it worked or worked enough?  Courts deal with people as they are.  You couldn't "fix" her and courts won't even try, from our experience.

Is this something I should try to inform her of and explain my reasoning beforehand to mitigate any possible problems from her.

No!  Sorry to be so firm, that is exactly the wrong thinking.  She's far more likely, once she has knowledge of your intentions or strategies, to use that advance knowledge you shared to try to sabotage you and you parenting efforts.  Follow your lawyer's experienced advice.  I suspect he would tell you that many of your ideas can have poor outcomes.  Listen to his/her experience.

A word about sharing information.  If you intend to repair the marriage, then of course sharing would be expected to restore the trust.  If she refuses to leave her new love interest, then how can there be trust?  If the marriage is failing then you discuss only what is legally required and what your lawyer approves to share.  Usually that is some of the financial matters such as bills and of course parenting information and child exchanges, if there are any.

Sadly, while I have learned a lot by educating myself, I am still open to reconciling and don't want to possibly ruin that either because to me when she wasn't full blown in this mindset, she was a good person, very caring, loving, and extremely attentive to her children.

What you see now is what you get.  So many here have hoped to manage somehow to convince their disordered spouse to revert back to the early days.  The general outcome as been failure.  Calling it "hopium" is a better description of your hopes.

Also, it seems her attachment to her new love interest is stronger than her attachment to her children.  The reality is that you therefore can step forward in court and state truthfully that you would be a better parent in so many ways than their other parent.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18204


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2024, 10:53:27 AM »

Please, please don't guilt yourself over your lawyer's advice to ask for full (or if not that then majority) custody.  Already you know that your stbEx will demand full or majority, right?  In her mind and disordered self-centered perceptions, what she feels she needs, then she must have.

I too had such misgivings but knew being the reasonably normal parent in charge was best.  Then I found out that my local family court (perhaps the entire state) had the old presumption left over from "Tender Years Doctrine" era that mothers are always the best to raise the children.  Before that, a century ago, it was the fathers who got default preference.  The reality is that the family dynamic needs to be scrutinized, yet that is a challenge to accomplish.

My history... Upon our separation some 15+ years ago - she was arrested for Threat of DV - that court gave me temp protection by assigning me possession of our home.  That was so helpful.  As soon as she was out she rushed over to family court and filed her own ex-parte temp protection order against me and included our preschooler.  Within a couple weeks we both appeared for the hearing and thankfully the CPS investigator stood up and stated CPS had "no concerns" about me.  So our child was excluded from her petition.

But family court still had to set a temp order going forward.  Despite her pending Threat of DV charge, me in possession of our home and CPS having no concerns about me, she got temp custody and temp majority time.  (That's how I learned that a spouse's poor adult behaviors does not automatically impact a spouse's presumed parenting ability.)  Of course everyone told me that my lack of custody and only alternate weekends was "just temporary" but I was stuck with that until the divorce's final decree TWO YEARS later.  Our sort of cases take longer than most.
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Haplo84
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 2


« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2024, 11:04:00 AM »

Thank you for the advice so far. I hope due to me collecting evidence of continued substance/alcohol dependency through our marriage will work in my favor towards all of this. She wants to go 50/50 on the custody but considering her need to introduce the kids asap I'm very concerned with this toxic style of behavior and how it may affect the children. If she would remain with our original agreement i would be less concerned but after learning of her living situation of being in someone else's apartment where there per her is an addict living with his mom and the fact that she has bedbug sores all over her i have major concerns as to her own health and mental wellbeing at this point. Would her being diagnosed by her psychiatrist and them having told her that she needs to go to therapy along with the substance abuse make the mental illness be more of a consideration. Honestly, I'm pretty certain she is going to fly off the handle as any time I have tried to talk about the divorce and settlement she has verbally attacked me. I'll be honest this is a very difficult situation considering what is going on with everything in general. I'm trying not to get lost and i am start my therapy sessions today to help manage as best I can, but this has weighed on me so heavily that it has been hard to really focus on anything.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18204


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2024, 12:38:17 PM »

Family courts are primarily concerned with the children since they're not adults.  While you can mention all the harm she has been doing to herself, even to you, what really matters is the actionable impact on the children, always put that at the top of your list.

It's possible that your court may note you and your lawyer's request yet still want to start you off with their usual temp order.  As I mentioned above, our sort of divorces take longer than the usual cases so the concept of a standard "temporary" order will not apply.

That is why you so your best to get as much of the temp order in favor of you the relatively normal parent.  The more you get accomplished now, the less you'll need to make the difficult and expensive struggle to catch up later.  Again, this is why you can't afford to default to your natural inclination (as one of the Good Guys and Good Gals here) to be overly nice and overly fair.  That would be exposing yourself to needless long term self-sabotage.

While my two years of temp orders left me with no custody voice at all - after all it was only temporary - your court may wish to split custody.  Problem is, could you get your stbEx to agree?  Mine wouldn't.  So what to seek?

Ask your lawyer whether your state recognizes Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  If you had that then there would be fewer returns to court needed, even during the temp order stage.  Sure, if you had DM or TB, she could still contest it in court or with a mediator but at least (1) you wouldn't have to wait months for an authority to make a decision and (2) "the tail won't be wagging the dog", so to speak.

There's a truism here.  If you don't ask, you know you won't get what you want.  But... if you do ask, you might get a Yes.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 12:56:08 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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