Has anyone else had this experience with their pwbpd?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

As many of you know me and my ex fiancé wbpd broke up a week before Christmas. Well, to give a little more detail, she had a hard splitting episode in which she got violent with me due to money being tight and the stress it had on her. Of course I was all to blame, at least in her mind anyway. We had several fights where she said “we’re done get the PLEASE READ out of “my” house I don’t wanna be with you anymore” followed by throwing her engagement ring at me. Usually by the next day she would be sorta okay. Even upset that I didn’t leave her engagement ring out for her to put back on. This fight, I thought it would be the same result. Next day, she changes her Facebook status to single while I’m at work. I could tell when I was texting her all through out that the light switch went from “love, to hate”. She blocked my Facebook. Which I thought was strange. Cause I blocked her during the first break up. It seemed to bother her that I hadn’t unblocked her 3 months into the break up the first time. She blocked my number after a fight a week later which I said some pretty harsh, but not untrue things. This discard was brutal and cold in every way. I haven’t heard from her since December. This was our first recycle.



Our first break up was so much different. There was so much push pull. The famous bpd string you along act. “Let’s have a fresh start take it slow let’s be friends for a while. you all know how this goes. Usually followed by raging angrily at me and going silent for a few days, up to a week was her longest silent period. All this while spending 3k of my money from our joint bank account while she was PLEASE READing other dudes while swearing on her kids lives she wasn’t. And making clear to me she would be gone for good if I so much looked at another girl. But I didn’t find this out until a month into the recycle. This discard was rough being yo-yoed. And because it was the first one. But it seemed like there was still feeling there.


What I’m getting at here, to those with multiple recycles, has their pattern ever differed like this before? My gut told me after the 2nd discard I would hear from her again. That this is her just further pushing boundaries. But after more than 6 weeks NC I’m not so sure anymore. I ask because I’m not certain I’m done yet. She’s also the primary signer on my vehicle (she did it so I could never fully abandon her). I would like to out right sell it back to the dealership but don’t want her to screw me on the money I would get out of it.I have made literally every payment on it.  There also may still be thousands of dollars worth of tools and possessions of mine at her house. Let me know your thoughts guys. It would be appreciated.

[pipefitter]

As many of you know me and my ex fiancé wbpd broke up a week before Christmas. Well, to give a little more detail, she had a hard splitting episode in which she got violent with me due to money being tight and the stress it had on her. Of course I was all to blame, at least in her mind anyway. We had several fights where she said “we’re done get the PLEASE READ out of “my” house I don’t wanna be with you anymore” followed by throwing her engagement ring at me. Usually by the next day she would be sorta okay. Even upset that I didn’t leave her engagement ring out for her to put back on. This fight, I thought it would be the same result. Next day, she changes her Facebook status to single while I’m at work. I could tell when I was texting her all through out that the light switch went from “love, to hate”. She blocked my Facebook. Which I thought was strange. Cause I blocked her during the first break up. It seemed to bother her that I hadn’t unblocked her 3 months into the break up the first time. She blocked my number after a fight a week later which I said some pretty harsh, but not untrue things. This discard was brutal and cold in every way. I haven’t heard from her since December. This was our first recycle.



Our first break up was so much different. There was so much push pull. The famous bpd string you along act. “Let’s have a fresh start take it slow let’s be friends for a while. you all know how this goes. Usually followed by raging angrily at me and going silent for a few days, up to a week was her longest silent period. All this while spending 3k of my money from our joint bank account while she was PLEASE READing other dudes while swearing on her kids lives she wasn’t. And making clear to me she would be gone for good if I so much looked at another girl. But I didn’t find this out until a month into the recycle. This discard was rough being yo-yoed. And because it was the first one. But it seemed like there was still feeling there.


What I’m getting at here, to those with multiple recycles, has their pattern ever differed like this before? My gut told me after the 2nd discard I would hear from her again. That this is her just further pushing boundaries. But after more than 6 weeks NC I’m not so sure anymore. I ask because I’m not certain I’m done yet. She’s also the primary signer on my vehicle (she did it so I could never fully abandon her). I would like to out right sell it back to the dealership but don’t want her to screw me on the money I would get out of it.I have made literally every payment on it.  There also may still be thousands of dollars worth of tools and possessions of mine at her house. Let me know your thoughts guys. It would be appreciated.

[kells76]

Hi pipefitter;

Each pwBPD is different, so while "on average" or "in general" there can be a breakup/makeup cycle that repeats, the specifics vary person to person and situation to situation. She has tried to get back together with you before, but it's hard to know if something is different in her life (or in her mind) that might change things for her.

The bigger question is about you and what you want, and how you can achieve your life goals no matter if she chooses to accompany you or not. That isn't to say "just treat her coldly, stop caring about her" -- it's more about focusing on improving your own mindset, your own sense of healthy self, and your own individuality, such that while it'd be a joy to have her healthily in your life, your existence and happiness aren't contingent on what she does or doesn't do.

It's important to remember that probably the worst stance to be in (in terms of effectiveness) is to have a "Leaving" mindset ("she might screw me over, she's been with other guys, she lied to me") without practicing and implementing the "Staying" tools. There's no one right answer for you about whether to try again or end it now, but what I can say is -- don't both hold on to the sense of being wronged while also pondering getting back together.

Fortunately, being "all in" or "all out" is 100% up to you -- she doesn't have to agree with your goals (though, of course, you can't make her be in a relationship with you!). That seems like the most important question in front of you -- what do you want -- and this is a good place to work through it.

When you say that you're not certain you're done yet, what could you work on differently, if you two got back together? Doing the relationship the same way will probably lead to similar outcomes. If you want to get back together, change will need to come from you.

...

What you want can impact the approach you take to recover your tools and deal with vehicle stuff. Plus, trying to get your stuff back from her house, and trying to sell a vehicle that's in her name, don't exactly communicate "I'm not certain I'm done yet". Just my outside perspective. Anyway, I'll pause there to hear some more from you -- it'll help us understand better how to help you.

And I'm sorry you've been going through so much logistical hassle on top of the relationship challenges. My H is in a profession where his tools aren't just "a nice thing to have for the weekend", it's how he makes a living, so I get it.

[pipefitter]

Hi kells, thanks for the reply as always.

A lot of what you said struck a chord. You are right. During the recycle, after finding out her actions I was in a half in/half out place. Wanting to continue while still holding onto the resentment. Looking back, I think some space would have helped me to process it all. I just didn’t know how to get that need met. We lived together again at the time. And I felt that if I asked for that space, or stayed at a relatives for a few days that I would have triggered a major abandonment episode. Basically I was scared, I walked on the egg shells, and my codependency took over.

I feel conflicted on whether or not I can continue to have a relationship with her in any capacity. I would be lying if I said I didn’t have strong feelings for her. And most of all for her children that believe I’m their father. That’s a powerful hook that my pwbpd has used in the past to FOG me into staying, or to reengage. As of right now, im not sure if I’m capable of letting go of all the hurt built up from the damaging actions of the relationship. I want to. I think that’s a good first step. I’m just not sure how. Maybe I can talk with my T about it.


As far my vehicle and tools go, I feel as if both of those items could possibly be used against me. If I make the decision to reengage if/when that time comes that she is wanting too, I want it to come from a place of “this is what I want because I love and care for her” I feel that if she has items of mine she can use as leverage on me. In the past she has proven that she will do that. If I had her name off of my vehicle ( we are “co-buyers) and my tools back, she would have less that could be used to sway any decision I make. You hit the nail on the head. My tools are my livelihood. Thankfully my company provides most of what I need now. But there are some very expensive tools she may or may not still have that I need it I ever want to pick up side work.

[kells76]

Hey again,

During the recycle, after finding out her actions I was in a half in/half out place. Wanting to continue while still holding onto the resentment. Looking back, I think some space would have helped me to process it all. I just didn’t know how to get that need met. We lived together again at the time. And I felt that if I asked for that space, or stayed at a relatives for a few days that I would have triggered a major abandonment episode. Basically I was scared, I walked on the egg shells, and my codependency took over.

It makes sense to feel that fear that somehow you're the one controlling whether or not she feels abandoned. Like -- "I can't do what's good for me, because that'll set her off".

A big mindset shift to have about BPD is that while sure, we can sometimes make things worse, there's a sense in which a pwBPD's actions and moods really aren't as connected to things we do as we think.

Her moods and feelings are a lot more connected to her inner experience of the moment, than to you denying yourself space, for example. She can feel abandoned when you're right there, after all.

It's a balance to hold the position that we can work on stopping making things worse, with holding the position that at the same time, we don't control a pwBPD's feelings, perceptions, and actions.

Am I guessing correctly that you are living elsewhere right now? Do you feel like you have space to process stuff?

I feel conflicted on whether or not I can continue to have a relationship with her in any capacity. I would be lying if I said I didn’t have strong feelings for her. And most of all for her children that believe I’m their father. That’s a powerful hook that my pwbpd has used in the past to FOG me into staying, or to reengage. As of right now, im not sure if I’m capable of letting go of all the hurt built up from the damaging actions of the relationship. I want to. I think that’s a good first step. I’m just not sure how. Maybe I can talk with my T about it.

That's a really good idea. Again, there's not necessarily a right or wrong answer here -- what's more important is digging in to what you want and what you're up for.

One foot in, one foot out is understandable right now -- yet long term won't really help you or her. You don't have to rush a decision, though; like you said, you were needing some space to process everything. When you do come to a point of deciding "this is what I'm going to do", it will probably be more effective to be all in one way or the other.

Fill us in on how therapy goes, if you're up for that.

As far my vehicle and tools go, I feel as if both of those items could possibly be used against me. If I make the decision to reengage if/when that time comes that she is wanting too, I want it to come from a place of “this is what I want because I love and care for her”

Are you saying that if you decide to try the relationship again, you want that to be genuine, not just "a move" to get your tools back? If so, that sounds wise.

I feel that if she has items of mine she can use as leverage on me. In the past she has proven that she will do that. If I had her name off of my vehicle ( we are “co-buyers) and my tools back, she would have less that could be used to sway any decision I make. You hit the nail on the head. My tools are my livelihood. Thankfully my company provides most of what I need now. But there are some very expensive tools she may or may not still have that I need it I ever want to pick up side work.

It's very possible to get the tools back if you show up with a police "community peacekeeping" escort. That would probably escalate things between you two, though.

Do you still have keys to her place? Does she work? It might be less escalating to go when she's away, get your stuff (maybe have a friend help), and send a low key heads-up message later: "Hey, just FYI I swung by earlier to grab my toolkits for a job coming up. Thanks, pipefitter"

In terms of the vehicle, is it your daily driver? It seems like you'd be able to get your name off the lease easier than you could "make" her take her name off, right? Can you offer something like: "Hey, I need to downsize the vehicle. Come on by the dealer anytime between now and next Friday to un-sign it so you won't be on the hook for payments. If I don't hear back from you by that Friday about un-signing, I'll assume you want it, and I'll take my name off of it so it's all yours. Best; pipefitter"

Just trying to think of an approach where if she doesn't respond about it, that's still an answer, and doesn't mean you're left waiting and on the hook and making payments on a vehicle she ends up owning.

It'd suck and be a hassle to have to take your name off of it, park it at her place, let her cope with payments, and have to find another rig, but sometimes having boundaries is a hassle.

...

It's possible that after your next therapy session, you might get some more clarity on what you want re: the relationship, and once you gain clarity there, other decision might fall into place much easier than now.

[SinisterComplex]

Hi kells, thanks for the reply as always.

A lot of what you said struck a chord. You are right. During the recycle, after finding out her actions I was in a half in/half out place. Wanting to continue while still holding onto the resentment. Looking back, I think some space would have helped me to process it all. I just didn’t know how to get that need met. We lived together again at the time. And I felt that if I asked for that space, or stayed at a relatives for a few days that I would have triggered a major abandonment episode. Basically I was scared, I walked on the egg shells, and my codependency took over.

I feel conflicted on whether or not I can continue to have a relationship with her in any capacity. I would be lying if I said I didn’t have strong feelings for her. And most of all for her children that believe I’m their father. That’s a powerful hook that my pwbpd has used in the past to FOG me into staying, or to reengage. As of right now, im not sure if I’m capable of letting go of all the hurt built up from the damaging actions of the relationship. I want to. I think that’s a good first step. I’m just not sure how. Maybe I can talk with my T about it.


As far my vehicle and tools go, I feel as if both of those items could possibly be used against me. If I make the decision to reengage if/when that time comes that she is wanting too, I want it to come from a place of “this is what I want because I love and care for her” I feel that if she has items of mine she can use as leverage on me. In the past she has proven that she will do that. If I had her name off of my vehicle ( we are “co-buyers) and my tools back, she would have less that could be used to sway any decision I make. You hit the nail on the head. My tools are my livelihood. Thankfully my company provides most of what I need now. But there are some very expensive tools she may or may not still have that I need it I ever want to pick up side work.

Do not doubt your capabilities. You are capable. It is just a matter of want and being ready. Too much still unresolved. You say you want to, but you are not ready to just yet because you still have to grieve and process. There is a sense of doubt coming from you. So, don't be hard on yourself...it will take time. Do not try to rush anything. Just roll with the punches and let your emotions process and then when you feel you have a clear head ask yourself...what do you really want? What are your goals? Obviously I support the idea of discussing this your T.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[pipefitter]

hey kells
 
            I should have been a little bit clearer on the time line of events. So the first discard experience came actually almost a year to the day to today. it was 2/13/23. This was the discard that showed so much of the push pull I hate you don't leave me type of behavior. During this time she would bread crumb me, while spending my money out of our joint bank account. she made me swear I wasn't seeing anyone else as she swore she had not either. after 4 months of push pull, angry texts and phone calls, and disappearing, I finally had enough and walked away from trying to reconcile. I sent her a nice final goodbye. A week to the day she reached out with a serious reconcilliation effort. she seemed so genuine. she really played on my love for her kids, and how they missed their "dad'. we reconciled in June. a month later I found out through her family that she had several sexual partners while we were apart. This shattered me. Up until that point I felt like she did love me some where inside her disordered thoughts. I tried to leave, but she had a major abandomment episode and screamed and cried that we couldn't do that to the kids again. they were very much negatively affected during the first break up.

                the relationship continued, with major resentment always near the surface inside me. It didn't help that when I told her I would work on forgiving her in T that she seemed to think that meant I was over it and would sweep it under the rug for forever. I felt like she didn't really love me, at this point. I thought that since she really didn't care about me, she could throw me away again at any point. So that is where I really started to walk on the egg shells. I did everything she wanted at all times essentially. there was some kinda humiliating stuff. I felt like I couldn't say no or she would discard me again, and I would be failing the kids, and proving my family right. they all warned me not to go back.


            This leads up to the second discard. because I felt unable to draw any boundaries, we got ourselves into a financial hole. not a terrible one, but that is a serious trigger for her. I worked a lot of overtime through November and December to pay for Christmas for the kids and get our finances back on track. During this time there were several major episodes of splitting. getting her ring thrown at me. threats to call the police on me for no valid reason. just because she wanted me out of her sight. we got into a major fight 12/17 that started because she wanted me to go over to the kids god parents with her. however the household chores had piled up. I told her I would meet her there after the chores were done. I get there and she immediately starts arguing with me because I didn't want to stay the whole evening. during the argument she noticed I changed my phone password. literally everyone knew what it was and I told her my new one. once we got home a major screaming rage episode happened. I was called every mean thing under the sun. all the kids Christmas gifts were thrown at me. she threatened me with the police again. I hadn't even raised my voice at her. we were so close to finally being financially on track. that night she started making outrageous demands for money I "owed her for living there" even though we had an agreement and I payed well more than what we had agreed to until that point.

         the next day I went to work. and I left her engagement ring where I usually did when she would throw it at me. she switched her Facebook status to single. I left work to go back and pack my stuff. I was shattered. as a man this is hard to admit, but I was so scared of this moment happening again. I went back to her house and packed as much as I could in her car. I told her I would not be strung along again and that im going to block her. out of anger I said that. she tried keeping her engagement ring which I thought was odd.


     A few days after the break up I noticed her mortgage tried to clear out of my bank account. I froze my direct deposit knowing her bills were scheduled to come out. so my account was negative now. I reached out to her to tell her this, and to remove my account info. I realized she blocked my number. I reached out on my work phone, and her response when I asked why did she block me was "well you said you were going to so". during this conversation she told me she immediately kicked me off our car insurance. so I had been driving uninsured for 3 days. the cold, sadistic side that seems to enjoy hurting me was back again. she acted the same way during the first discard. I lost my self respect begging her not to do this. it was almost Christmas after all. I missed her kids, and we were both miserable during the first break up. she seemed to enjoy hearing me out, then telling me no.  She also said she was going to throw away my things that I wasn't able to take the day we broke up. a day after that, I noticed her liking some dudes work out pics on fb. I lost it on her via text. I said some mean things, that I didn't want anything to do with her and that when she was all used and alone again she had no one to blame but herself. this led her to block both my work and personal phone, and my email. her words were "fine now we will have zero contact." I feel that this was done to punish me. this was 12/18


     12/27 she randomly shows up and my family members house that im staying at. she dropped off a box that had stuff from my moms funeral, a bunch of useless stuff, and the gift bag and paper work to her engagement ring in it. since then there was been zero contact from her.

   to answer your question kells, I have reached out on texting apps to try and get answers to if she is getting my mail. I have changed my address so many times the post office system won't let the postal workers do it again. if she actually did throw away my things and what to do about my vehicle. I don't want my possessions to be used as leverage against me, the way that she uses the kids like that. even though the kids are a big enough hook. as far my vehicle, we purchases it together. She would have to refinance it if I were to take my name off the loan. so she would have to sign off on it. Part of me feels like she won't do that. when she's splitting she has threatened to call the cops on me for "stealing" the car if I left with it. and she would also say to get her name off of it. but, I believe she insisted on being a signer on the loan so it would always give her perceived control over me, and so I can't permanately abandon her while I still have it. it always gives her an excuse to reengage.


   Im sorry for the long post. I plan on posting more on here with updates on therapy and any other possible updates if she reappears again. I thought it would be helpful to have most of the major details written. thank you for reading guys