Partner’s Ex

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

 
I should preface this by saying my parent had BPD and I went no contact years ago. I have since gone through a lot of therapy and am now in a romantic relationship with someone whose ex and co-parent seems to have a lot of the behaviors of somebody with BPD.

My partner has two young kids and they are determined to keep the peace with their ex, which I respect.

Unfortunately, the ex has had trouble accepting that my partner has moved on. Each time they learn about a new phase of our relationship, they call my partner and rage at them, then give them the silent treatment for months. Recently they found out that we are moving in together and are now threatening to sue my partner for full custody. On these calls they berate my partner and tell them they are a horrible parent. In addition, they are starting to bring me into it, making claims to my partner that the kids don’t want to live with me and twisting things the kids are telling them to try to paint me in a bad light.

This all went down yesterday. My partner is obviously scared. My/our first concern is not letting this affect the kids as much as possible. I am new to kids and have never dated someone with kids before. I view my role as supporting my partner. Anything involving the kids or the ex is their territory. I will listen until it affects me, which it seems like it may at some point.

I have found a few books that really helped me in understanding my upbringing, including “Stop Walking On Eggshells”. I asked my partner to read it last night. That’s as far as I’ve gotten. I’m rereading it myself and decided to check out some support groups. All I can do is take care of myself and my actions.

So, my questions is. What are some reasonable boundaries for me to set at this point? I’m navigating new territory here and could really use some guidance.

Thank you.

[Brewed Tea]

 
I should preface this by saying my parent had BPD and I went no contact years ago. I have since gone through a lot of therapy and am now in a romantic relationship with someone whose ex and co-parent seems to have a lot of the behaviors of somebody with BPD.

My partner has two young kids and they are determined to keep the peace with their ex, which I respect.

Unfortunately, the ex has had trouble accepting that my partner has moved on. Each time they learn about a new phase of our relationship, they call my partner and rage at them, then give them the silent treatment for months. Recently they found out that we are moving in together and are now threatening to sue my partner for full custody. On these calls they berate my partner and tell them they are a horrible parent. In addition, they are starting to bring me into it, making claims to my partner that the kids don’t want to live with me and twisting things the kids are telling them to try to paint me in a bad light.

This all went down yesterday. My partner is obviously scared. My/our first concern is not letting this affect the kids as much as possible. I am new to kids and have never dated someone with kids before. I view my role as supporting my partner. Anything involving the kids or the ex is their territory. I will listen until it affects me, which it seems like it may at some point.

I have found a few books that really helped me in understanding my upbringing, including “Stop Walking On Eggshells”. I asked my partner to read it last night. That’s as far as I’ve gotten. I’m rereading it myself and decided to check out some support groups. All I can do is take care of myself and my actions.

So, my questions is. What are some reasonable boundaries for me to set at this point? I’m navigating new territory here and could really use some guidance.

Thank you.

[PeteWitsend]

Good for you for reaching out and being proactive here.  Your partner is in a tough place, so be supportive of them, but you also need to learn to set some boundaries as far as what you will or won't tolerate, and help your partner do the same with their Ex.

Set a boundary. I think for one thing, your partner shouldn't allow their ex to berate them like this.  I don't know their dynamic, but I was pretty firm about not allowing my BPDxw to continue to treat me like she did when we were married.  I simply refused to engage with her on the phone - or in person - and insisted all our communications needed to be in writing (text or email).  In addition, we use a court-ordered messaging app (there are several of these), for formal requests, like custody day switches, or medical appointments for our daughter. 

I never thought much of this, but after reading your post, I realize this was a pretty good move on my part, and a good boundary to establish.  I think pwBPD generally try to avoid going "on the record," i.e. putting something in writing, or leaving verbal recordings, because they know how unhinged and unfair their behavior is.  They prefer talking on the phone, or in-person interactions because they feel they can control those better, with tried-and-true techniques like bullying and lying to get their way.  They dislike being accountable for the things they do and say, and will be on their best behavior if they understand they're being recorded or in writing.

Legal action? As far as the threat of legal action, I'd call their bluff and say "go ahead and sue."

Around here, a retainer for a family law attorney is anywhere from $5,000 to $25,000, and that's just to file the action.  Expect total legal fees from $30,000 to $50,000 or more to actually go to trial to get sole custody.  Do you think your partner's ex has that sort of cash sitting around to risk on a gamble like this?

If so, it might be worth it for your partner to talk to an attorney for a brief consultation on the risks here, but I wouldn't worry too much. 

pwBPD love to make big time threats... following through on them, not so much. 

Don't ignore them completely, but don't let fear of them control your actions.

[ForeverDad]

Your partner is apparently dealing with a situation where the children have been alienated from him by their mother.  How much parenting time does he get with them?  Is that schedule stated in a court order?  In general terms, are these children teens, tweens or elementary school age?

A book that discusses some of the issues is Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.

If his ex did go to court seeking custody, they might be required to go through a "Change of Circumstances" process first in order to get approval to proceed.  A parent starting a new relationship is not in itself basis to seek a custodial change.  There would have to be some negative factor such as you or he being a convicted abuser or whatever.  However, if the ex wants to waste money on it, it's not your job to inform her.

A couple years after my divorce, I did file a Change of Circumstances case due to my ex's repeated obstructions.  I did get the sole custody I petitioned for BUT the deal ("win some, lose some") our son's GAL (Guardian ad Litem, lawyer for the child) was that I would gain sole custody but ex would not lose any parenting time.

Likely what he has now is joint custody.  Even if he lost custody in the worst but unlikely scenario - since he has do no wrong - he would still get to have time/visitation with his children.  Courts are very, very unlikely to order a parent have no parenting time (visitation) unless he or you are judged to be a danger to the children.  And that is almost unheard of succeeding here, even we who have/had extremely troublesome Borderline disordered spouses.

In short, he has little to fear legally.  (Well, except for false allegations.)  But the antipathy from the children indicates they're at high risk of alienation, if not already.  They would benefit from counseling or therapy.  Yet ex is likely to oppose that but if matters do go to court, then your partner would be advised to seek counseling and the court would likely side with him.  He would just have to ensure his ex didn't get to be the one to choose a biased or gullible therapist.

[ABetterWay]

I'm in a very similar situation to you - dating someone who's ex likely has BPD and it's my first time dating someone with kids (I don't have any of my own).  So not only is it dealing with a blended family situation for the first time (which has it's own set of troubles and learning curves), now we've thrown in another layer of conflict.  xuBPD has been a SAHM for a number of years and over 2 years later still refuses to get a job.  She has a couple side hustles for bringing in some extra cash, but that's it.

Prior to this relationship I had never heard of BPD, so I had a lot of learning to do.  It took exploring some in therapy to get past the fact that the ex just... cannot be logical.  Everything has to be convoluted and taking the long meandering road to get anywhere.  Not to mention the history revision and temper tantrums.  Logic rules my world and decision making, and my exH was a screamer and verbally abusive.  SO's xuBPD triggered my own issues left and right, so I had to work on calming myself first instead of reacting from such a hurt place.

One of my first boundaries over the fights and such was that if they HAD to happen... that he was to have them elsewhere.  In person at her place, or on the phone somewhere not around me.  Being in another part of the house didn't count either.  He would be (rightfully) frustrated and just exude this... bad energy that would permeate the house.  Getting that away from me helped me to regulate myself.  Starting out she would refuse to get to the root of the problem or whatever needed to be hammered out regarding the kids or the split without fighting over the past or some inane thing that didn't matter.  But because she could push his buttons just right and get him all riled up, the fights would get nasty.  Over time this changed, as I would remind him after every one of them that he didn't have to stand and take it.  He could choose to walk away/hang up and come back to the conversation later.  This is what he does (most of the time - he is still human) now, and the fights are shorter and less intense.  And when she feels the need to text him incessantly, he just blocks her for a little bit. 

The next thing I had to put into place was about knowing alllll the details.  He understandably, wanted to be upfront and honest about his conversations with her.  Especially if they were long ones for whatever reason he wanted to be CLEAR that there weren't ulterior motives or shady things going down - but that they were in a fight.  This meant he was bringing back word for word any of her insecurities with me and/or her insults towards me.  That didn't do us any good - just fueled drama and potential fights between him and I.  She would try to make up these ridiculous rules about what we could and could not do in our space or while the kids were on his time.  From things like me not being able to drive them by myself to how I interacted with the kids.  It was all her being unreasonable driven by her fear that a) I was trying to take her kids from her and b) her kids would like me better.  Do I think the kids would be in a better place if they spent more of their time with us than her?  You betcha.  Am I trying to cut her out completely?  NOPE - the kids are young and she hasn't split on them.  They still need their mom.  But we have to keep the first part under wraps and let her continue to keep making mistakes, or she will meltdown.

She also reaches out to SO still for emotional validation.  Especially after fighting with her boyfriend (who is her affair partner and SO's ex best friend... so she's trying to rope him in the drama triangle).  She's gone as far as asking him to tell her she's pretty because the AP told her she was ugly.  So she will still try to cling to SO when her abandonment fears really ramp up.  No boundary needed there on my part, as SO shuts that down super quick.  It is frustrating though because when she isn't in that mindset she KNOWS it's super not appropriate. 

Our other big factor has just been... time.  With SO not giving her rants over what we do an ear, she's cut them out (to him at least).  That's also led to some acceptance.  The kids speak positively of me, and we've had enough history now to show that I'm not trying to step in all over "her" area. 

There are still some territory battles in ways that seem weird to me, but I think there's a certain point where she will always try to flex.  She's tried to get a read on my relationship with SO's parents and has attempted to make me look bad/talk crap about me to SO's mom.  Mom shut that down, and she struggled and literally asked if SO's parents liked me better, and how COULD they because she gave them grandkids and I won't.  (Side note - she's tried to MANDATE that SO and I never have kids of our own.  The fact that I can't have kids makes this extra insulting as she thinks we aren't/it hasn't happened because of her "rule".  Nevermind he and I are both 40+ and there's already 3 kids).  There has been weirdness over me going to a family member's funeral states away and no support was given for her to be able to go.  Similar jealousy over the fact that I met/got to know and am now good friends with the cousin's new wife.  Cousin and SO are super close and more like brothers.  She's very interested in how we have things set up/split (which she gets no info about) money wise, as she still expects SO to provide/cover her needs.  Just the other day she asked if she is the beneficiary to his life insurance (he works a dangerous job).  She was fishing to see if it was transferred to me.  Instead he told her it goes to a trust for the kids to be managed by his dad's financial guy.  That she won't be handed straight cash and will have to provide receipts/a need that is for the kids.

We have a ways to go still and some of it may never change.  But now we react better to her... mess and instead see it as an insight to her mental state to know if the kids need extra support, or if we need to step in and make some changes.

[PeteWitsend]

...
We have a ways to go still and some of it may never change.  But now we react better to her... mess and instead see it as an insight to her mental state to know if the kids need extra support, or if we need to step in and make some changes.

I don't think it ever really ends until the kids are grown and on their own, unless they decide to cut contact with the BPD-parent.

A friend of mine (he's a psychiatrist) told me that what often happens is as soon as a son or daughter brings a girlfriend or boyfriend over, it triggers the BPD-parent's abandonment issues, and they start the "BPD show"... guilting their kid, attacking the significant other, etc.  The poor kid is essentially forced to choose between having his or her own life, or spending their adulthood caretaking a parent with a behavioral disorder. 

He said in most cases, they make the right decision, and will go as far as cutting contact completely if they have to. 

Of course, you'll still have issues seeing the BPD-parent at weddings/funerals, but hopefully those are rare, and you can approach them expecting the unexpected.  And with the right sense of humor, even view them as an opportunity to get a fun story to tell 

[ABetterWay]

A friend of mine (he's a psychiatrist) told me that what often happens is as soon as a son or daughter brings a girlfriend or boyfriend over, it triggers the BPD-parent's abandonment issues, and they start the "BPD show"... guilting their kid, attacking the significant other, etc.  The poor kid is essentially forced to choose between having his or her own life, or spending their adulthood caretaking a parent with a behavioral disorder. 

He said in most cases, they make the right decision, and will go as far as cutting contact completely if they have to. 

In our case the BPD BM has an older kid (she's 19 or 20 now) from a prior relationship that gives us some insight into how she may treat the next 3. BM had this kid in her teens, so there's some additional immaturity at play as well.  BM frequently involved the oldest into adult manners (this kid knew her mom was cheating on my SO for two months before she got caught...), and there's some parentification as well. and some hard splitting during the teenage years (she kicked the oldest out to go live with her dad when they didn't agree.  Like - put her stuff on the lawn type of deal). 

We've already started age appropriate talks about managing our emotions and how we have to learn to do so - and that there are adults that haven't.  The same thing with being kind and making good decisions in life, and that actions have consequences.  No parallels are made to BM, but providing enough info on "this is what normal looks like".  And I try to make it a point to apologize for a bad day/not handling a situation well - because we're all human!  (Sometimes the moment has passed, or it happens around transition and it's a few days before we see them again.  They are still young and we let them decide if and when to bring something back around).

[ForeverDad]

A member's wedding from several years ago... She had a mother who always tried to make everything about herself.  Well, she was getting married and felt she had to monitor her mother yet she had other priorities than watching her mother, like enjoying her wedding.  So she decided to hire an off-duty police officer - maybe two? - to be positioned near her mother so they could politely escort her out if she created an awkward scene.  The wedding went well.  As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.