Family member with BPD

[Donna Marie]

Hello - first time posting and seeking some advice on how to salvage relationship with my daughter.
She is involved with someone who has BPD.  (she also has bi-polar and it has been well-managed for quite a number of years).

After she split from her ex, she almost immediately became involved with "Joe".  When the family first met Joe for a Thanksgiving celebration, we were all a little uneasy about him but couldn't put our finger on what was bothering us.  He was on his phone 95% of the time and everyone thought that was so rude, especially considering this was his 'first impression' and 'let's meet the family'.  At this point no one knew he had BPD.   He was also very involved with my grandson, who was 5 at the time.  He would overrule anything my daughter said.  She said yes, the little boy can do this, and Joe would say no... or vice versa.  He just seemed to over-rule anything she said, and this was all very odd as well considering he'd never had a child of his own.  All of a sudden he was the master expert on raising HER child.  When I had time alone with her, and mentioned this... she said "Ya, it's his way or the highway."     Bothersome, but she is an adult and this was a choice she made, choosing to be with him.

Fast forward, within a very short time of knowing each other, she becomes pregnant, and they  have a child together.  Because of her bi-polar, and  hormonal changes after giving birth, I went to stay with them for a little while to help her with the baby.  I did most of the night feedings, and at the start would get up a 2, 4 and 6 am.   After a few nights of this, realizing Joe wasn't going to work in the morning.. I offered to "tag team" with him.   He was happy to do this and was very good with the baby.
Throughout my stay with them, I noticed how controlling he was with my daughter's little boy and spending time with him, to the point where the little guy actually preferred Joe's company over his own mom's.    Joe was constantly pushing my daughter's buttons... why wasn't she doing this.. why wasn't she doing that...  They were constantly arguing and she was in tears quite often.   She broke down at one point with me saying she felt she made a huge mistake with him.  I tried to reassure her it was a tough time for her right after having a baby, and thing would get better.  However, Joe's rages were disturbing to me.  Anything could set him off and he would repeat things over and over when re-hashing something that he didn't like.    At one point, my daughter got a phone call from the police who were looking for Joe in respect to a road rage incident where he allegedly threatened someone with a knife.  When Joe got home, that 'conversation' turned into a heated argument and he just didn't understand why his behavior was not acceptable.   He denied the knife bit but acknowledged he got out of his car and "called someone out" on their stupidity.    Later, when I was talking to him about it, he acknowledged he needs to get better control of his anger, but not even 5 minutes later, maintained he was correct in how he responded to the other driver.  I only share this because it's an example of how he is a ticking timebomb and can explode at any slightest thing.

Near the end of my stay with them, yet another heated argument that turned into a screaming match.  A juice pitcher got knocked over... In fairness, it may have happened accidentally, but this was like a final straw for me, watching my grandson, my heart breaking for him.  I asked him if he was frightened and he wouldn't answer me.  I asked him if this happened alot, and he said yes.  I asked him if he'd like me to take him to his dad's place for that night.  (not far away from where my daughter lived)  He said yes, he'd like to go there.

This is where things got crazy.  All of a sudden I'm the bad guy because I took my grandson to his dad's place.  Did I react?  Yes.  Was I out to hurt my daughter and Joe?  No.  I was only thinking of that little boy when they were not.  

When they found out what I had done, Joe freaks out and threatens to leave because "he can't bear for my daughter to lose her son".     My daughter freaks out and tells me we can't let him leave because he is suicidal.  So I help her to calm him down.  He is sobbing  and being very apologetic and by this point she had already told me has BPD, and I'm getting that he has a mental health issue, but i've learned this rather quickly.  Although I've done lots of research on bi-polar in the past, I know very little about BPD.
She calms him down and then the 2 of them go into another room.  When they come back out, they are both calm  and Joe accuses me of drinking the night before.  (??!!)  I had been out to visit a girlfriend the night before  (a needed break from the atmosphere).  I had A glass of wine, followed by dinner and coffee.  By no means was I "drinking", but all of a sudden the tables were turned and he's accusing me of drinking the night before.  My daughter said this was all very awkward, and she asked me to leave.

Since I've been back home, I've apologized for how things played out, but not for taking her son to his dad's place.     I've NEVER done anything like that in my life EVER.  In all the years of caring/babysitting my grandchildren (we have a few), I've never taken them anywhere their parents' didn't know about. This situation was so different... In my heart, I felt it was the right thing to do for my grandson at that time, and if my daughter is honest with herself, she must know that too.  I feel like Joe is manipulating her and she has asked me to stop reaching out to her,.

I'm heartbroken that I may never see her, nor my grandchildren again.   I worry for her.  Do I just hang back until she reaches out?  I just feel at a loss on how to deal with this situation.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi Donna Marie
I have read your post a couple of times and have been mulling it over. You really have been thrown into the 'BPD experience' deep end and it is important how this moves from here. Your experience highlights lots of aspects of BPD especially the wa.
y it became all about Joe when you took your gs to a safe place.

First of all I hope you are able to get information on BPD here that is helpful to your situation. Also reading others' experience can help you identify how BPD 'looks' in day to day life and how this lines up with how Joe acts. You will see that manipulation, control, mood swings, anger, are common.

The main thing at the moment is that - in my opinion - Joe will be trying to isolate your dd. Unfortunately an event like taking gs to a safe place can be the perfect catalyst for someone with BPD to manipulate. We walk a tightrope unfortunately as we respond to the chaos of BPD

I am wondering if there are other family members that dd is in touch with? I think it was good that dd said she thought she had made a big mistake. It is also helpful that Joe is on the police radar re the road rage. It could also be helpful in the long term that you have witnessed at close hand Joe's behaviour. Did you tell your gs's dad why you were taking him to stay with him for the night?

How often does gs stay with his father? Also how far do they live from you?

Sorry about all the questions. I think it is important to just pause, look at all the factors involved - now that you have an idea of BPD - and find a path to carefully move forward.

At this point in time I think - not sure - I would try to have some sort of light contact with dd. Is that a possibility or has dd told you not to have any contact?

[Donna Marie]

Hi Sancho -  Thank you so much for your reply and insights.   My daughter does not speak to me at all now.  I have reached out "lightly" on 2 occasions,  just checking in and reminding her I love her and have only ever wanted her to be happy etc...  No reply/complete radio silence.

To answer your questions; there are a few family members she could reach out to, but she likely won't.  2 of her aunts live fairly close to her. (One an hour away, and the other only 15 min!)  She doesn't have much to do with her brother or dad who live close by also.  I was really her only "close" family member, and I live almost 4 hours away.  Her ex, my grandson's father, also lives close by and the boy sees his dad regularly.  (Every other weekend and also during the week sometimes) 

My daughter-in-law did visit her when she was in town and she said that she looked "ok" and didn't seem distraught or overwhelmed except for the fact that the apartment was not really well taken care of.  Smelled like cat pee, (which I can confirm from when I was there).  Apt was very unkempt and in need of a good cleaning  (and purging).  I actually helped my daughter reorganize some stuff and clean a bit but Joe has so much "stuff"  in this small apt - boxes and old furniture and tools.... they don't have the space for much and he's crammed as much stuff into it as possible.

I'm not sure the police have him on their radar because he put my daughter's license plates on his car.  (That's another story -  he drives without insurance because he cannot afford it due to his poor driving record).  So when he had that road rage incident,  the other person he freaked out on, called the police and cited the plate #.  That's how the police got hold of my daughter and was asking who was driving "her car"... when really it was his car with her plates.     Apparently,  road rage is not uncommon for him because while I was visiting them, she had to go to an appointment and he wanted to accompany her.  She would not drive with him and took my car to the appointment -- asking him to meet her there -- which he did.

Anyway, back to the present - she is not speaking to me and not replying to me.  I fear if I keep sending her messages she will block me.  So  I've held back.  I'm actually to the point, where "I don't need this PLEASE READ" and if she doesn't want me in her life, so be it.   But this whole thing does still bother me.  I have a friend who suggested I call Childrens Aid Society and ask for a wellness check.  I'm not convinced that is the route to go either.   The kids are being taken care of -- being fed, clothed, grandson not missing school, and not being physically harmed.  The concern is the long term emotional effect on my grandson -- and at this point, is it my place to cause further disruption?  I'm sure many people with mental health issues have children.  Is this all just par for the course so to speak?    Perhaps I just did overstep and should butt out... I do believe she is in an unhealthy situation, but she is an adult, and really there is not much I can do unless something drastic happens. 

As you can see, I'm going in circles here in my head -- thank you for taking the time to listen and I do appreciate it. 

[Sancho]

Hi Donna Marie
Thanks for the extra information. It does all go around in one's head and I think it helps to write it here. I agree with the points you are coming to.

I think 'letting go' at the moment is the right decision - or it's at least what I would do, especially from what I now know of BPD - the more you try to make contact, the more Joe will manipulate dd against you.

I would be relieved that there is an aunt 15 minutes away - even though dd doesn't have much contact with her. Is Aunt your sister? Would it be helpful to have a chat with her re the situation regarding Joe's anger etc? Or would it muddy the waters?

To be honest I would be hoping that the police are doing some follow up on the incident - I think they should because there was a knife involved. The number plate should correlate to a make and model of a car, so they would find out the deception there. If Joe made any threats while holding the knife, I think it's bigger than low grade road rage, and if dd doesn't want to drive with Joe, his road rage must be constant and unnerving.

My mind going around the situation comes to the same point as you - leaving things so as not to inflame things, especially as I feel there is a possibility that events may occur - eg dd wants to end the relationship or there is police follow up/Joe incurs more road rage incidents - that mean there is a new situation.

DD knows you are there - and having the knowledge one person is there, can make all the difference as things unfold.

[js friend]

Hi DonnaMarie,

Iam experiencing a very similiar situation albeit it is with my udd and not her partner. I havent seen my grandchildren for 3years.  When I was in regular contact with my udd and gkids udd always wanted to maintain total over them. No one could ask them if they wanted to do this or that or if they wanted to go here or there because udd wouldnt allow it. She actually stated to a relative that we should not ask the kids anything because she is their mum and they should be asking HER whether she is present or not, so I guess taking your gson to to a place of safety would have complete  betrayal in bfs eyes if he is anything like my udd. On the otherhand I do believe that you did the right thing at the time.

I think that in this situation the only think you can do is to maintain the distance but still be available should the time come. Hopefully that shouldnt be too far away in the future. Your dd has a new baby(stress), living in cramped conditions(stress) and with a partner who is totally overbearing (stress)

if you were there to help her before when she became a new mum for the first time this might resonate a little more with her. I also think having a relative or close friend of
your dd to maintain some contact from afar is a great idea. My udd has very few friends which she still speaks to so. I dont put them on the spot but they know where Iam if anything should come up.

I wish you well DonnaMarie. Hopefully you will get to see your gkids again at some point.

[Donna Marie]

Hi js friend,

I actually did help her the first time around when she had her first child as well. (the grandson I was talking about).  I was living closer back then and I used to take him for about 3 days a week.  It just boggles my mind how her partner can influence her to such a degree that she "forgets" everything from the past and how I've been there for her.   All I've ever wanted is her well-being and happiness.  I shut my mouth with my initial concerns about her partner;  it wasn't until I was staying with them for a week that I finally cracked near the end.

I so appreciate everyone's input.  At this point, I feel like this is a loss and I'm grieving.. so it will take time to accept and move on.  Wishing you all the best as well!