1.12 | Validation - examples

[qkslvrgirl]

I've just re-read the entire set of postings in this workshop. A point I'd like to make is that invalidation is often turned against the non by the BPD as a control tool.

Also, invalidation appears to be the most damaging psychological blow used by controllers against their victims (see Relationship Needs at www.eqi.org/eabuse1.htm#Basic%20Needs%20in%20Relationships).

Have you found any recovery tool to aid the non when the BPD partner cannot or will not stop the invalidation?

Thanks!

Quicksilver Girl  

[lovelee]

an0ught -

It's really funny how spot on you are.

I definitely have serious low blood sugar meltdowns - as does everyone in my family.  I love traveling with my brother cuz we always stop for necessary snacks.  My friends call it my superpower cuz I always know exactly when to eat if we've been running around all day.

However, I had a very serious freak-out when H and I were still dating cuz he kept me waiting like nine hours before we ate dinner.  Bad.

So - I suspect that H has a similar blood sugar issue - he definitely starts getting edgy right about the same time I start getting spacey.  But, as soon as I mention it's time to eat something he starts getting nasty 'how close are you to freaking out on me?' and going on about how I'm f'd up cuz I need to eat within an hour of when I feel the drop.

And, of course, according to him, he can go for days on a single bowl of cereal cuz he's amazing like that.

But - as soon as we do eat he calms down.

And I've stopped listening to his pre-meal rants and just started making sure he eats regularly cuz that helps a lot.

Anyway - I like this self-validation thing in general - if he's not already caught up in a rant and my emotions mean nothing anyway at that point - he usually is OK with hearing 'I'm tired/cranky/hot and I just need a minute/quiet time/rest'

And I'm with you that some fights are healthy - but I promise you the one about which way we were going to go on our hike last week was just stupid.  And, for future reference, if he tells me I should just f'ing go the way I want to go and I say 'OK' and start walking the other way - not a great idea.  Esp. in 100 degree heat 5 minutes after he smashes his iPhone screen by accident.

lovelee

[united for now]

Have you found any recovery tool to aid the non when the BPD partner cannot or will not stop the invalidation?

He can't invalidate you if you ignore it.

If you are still feeling abused then it is because you are still hoping to stop the invalidation with your persuasive words or your indelible logic. This won't work. When our partners are dysregulated they are not in a mental place where they can consider our needs. It's all about them.

Trying to reason with him when dysregulated only makes matters worse.

If you know a dog bites when he is eating, then stay away from him when he is eating. If you stick around, then you are choosing to place yourself in risky situations. You are choosing to not take care of yourself.  

It sucks that he dysregulates... .

[qkslvrgirl]

A lot of time has passed since July '10 when we were discussing this; however, I have found that everything said here is spot-on.

The first thing I would recommend is to visualize yourself surrounded by bullet-proof barriers while you continue enjoying some activity safely inside. This is mental practice for you to recall in the heat of the moment that there is a "safe place" for you to go.

When the real need arises for you to leave an abuse situation, you will recognize it more quickly and make your escape.

My escapes have varied from just leaving and going for a drive or long walk (no cell phone answering), to taking a longer trip to stay away for a day or more. If you live in separate places already, this is very easy to go NC for a day or a week.

If you have a friend, maybe you can trade some housework or meal preparation in exchange for a couple nights on their sofa.

Just use your imagination and practice different options.

One thing I've learned it that my uBPDh is much more likely to respond and attempt to set things right if I do not initiate contact first once an exit or NC period is put into play.

[LifeInSNAFUville]

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

[Aurylian]

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

I was holding off on bringing this up, but since SNAFU started it  --in my situation validation works some of the time.  But, often my BPDw is tenacious in wanting me to agree with her facts or opinions (as in affirming I do or don't feel the same).  It's almost like she is saying "your validation means nothing to me if you don't agree with my facts or opinions."

[iluminati]

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

I was holding off on bringing this up, but since SNAFU started it  --in my situation validation works some of the time.  But, often my BPDw is tenacious in wanting me to agree with her facts or opinions (as in affirming I do or don't feel the same).  It's almost like she is saying "your validation means nothing to me if you don't agree with my facts or opinions."

I think that when it comes to that, you just have to agree to disagree.  If you get someone coming after you to agree, that's when you roll out.  I know I've had to do that on occasion.  When a pwBPD does that, they aren't looking to be heard, but be listened to.  They want to control you, and you don't have to go with that.

[united for now]

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

Validation isn't a cure all for everything.

Sometimes there "is" an agenda, where they are focused on getting you to agree or change something.

ex. Your spouse may be interested in sexual intimacy and you are not. They may push the issue and get upset when you say "no".

You can validate and show you agree with them wanting something without caving in to their demands. You take care of yourself by refusing to get sucked into endless circular arguments. This is where multiple issues occur.  Validation, setting limits on what you will listen to, and taking care of yourself.

If you previously gave in to them after endless badgering and whining or them getting mad and raging at you, then you inadvertently gave them intermittent reinforcement (one of the hardest lessons to unlearn for both partners) , thus they are more likely to keep badgering you in the hopes that you will cave in to them. Your past actions have shown that through repeated attempts that they can win or get what they want (think slot machines). They aren't trusting your words but are basing their arguments on their own desire to get what they want and your past history of giving in. Your words won't mean a lot to them at first if this is the case.

Actions speak way louder than words, and our actions have to be consistent and strong for any lasting change to occur.

[jhan6120]

I think I occasionally invalidate my uBPDgf because I'm a HUMAN BEING TOO and I occasionally get exhausted from dealing with someone who is completely controlled by their emotions. And so I give myself a break about it.

[qkslvrgirl]

 As Jhan just expressed, we are only human and we tire of carrying the burden of constant mental health caregiver. This is when we nons are both more likely to appear vulnerable to a BPD (and they move in for the kill) and, having been attacked (invalidated) ourselves, we dish it back.

I've noticed that "becoming aware of my thoughts" has proved to be a useful tool to become more immune to having my own buttons pressed. Here are a couple of examples:

1) When I am alone, do I think constantly in terms of "stories" about why this-or-that was said? Can I stop the mental chatter and just "be" - and release any negative thinking in relation to what has happened or was said?

2) Am I taking responsibility at all times for how I feel? Am I aware that my emotions are separate from the reality - they are a physical expression of the thoughts I am choosing to think?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that MY emotional reactions are under MY control - I choose to jump through the hoop - or not. The emotions I feel are the result of the mental story I make up to explain my situation. If I make up a different story line, then I can change the temporary surge of emotions that are only a flood of some biochemical that my thoughts have triggered within me.

I hope that by mastering my own thought processes, I can put down the burden that is not mine to carry - and demonstrate another possible set of behaviors to the BPD.

[serenity123]

That's exactly how I feel... .I want to take care of me... .I do need to heal.  I hate that she may be so lost, but I feel in my heart that perhaps "tough love" right now is all I can do.

[aur0ra]

Can someone give examples of "validating questions" (as opposed to validating answers)?

Thx... .d

[lbjnltx]

From the book " I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better":

"what do you think might work?"

"are there other options?"

"what do you think caused the problem?"

"did that hurt your feeling?"

Some of mine:

"what could you do differently next time to have a different outcome?"

"what would you like to see happen?"

"how can you affect change now?"

"are you personalizing?"

"would you like to have self time, i think i need it?"

[Battle Weary]

Also like this one because it takes them out of themselves a bit:

"If you had a friend with this problem, what would you suggest to them?"

[lbjnltx]

i like that one too battleweary! 

[More than sad]

Good validating statements and ways to communicate.

thanks, LadyLinnet

[needbpdhelp]

This is good.

COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques

Validation of feelings is vital to connecting with others.

In a "BPD relationship" there are going to be validation issues.  As the healthier partner, it falls to us to try to achieve some level of working validation in the relationship - to lead.

• That often means that we need to be very conscious of the pwBPD high validation needs and try to provide for them in a healthy and constructive way

• It also often means that we have reacted in unhealthy ways to feeling invalidated by the pwBPD. We need to fix ourself (the pwBPD isn't going to fix us) and we need to disengage a bit from the push/pull validation habits common to pwBPD

This workshop is about the power of validation!

Thanks for participating!

What has worked very well for me to provide for my wife's high validation needs, is validation when there is no issue at all. Out of the blue compliments about her looks, skills as a parent and teacher, her brilliant mind, and all the other things I love about her that attracted me to her in the first place - before the 'taking her for granted' phase settled in. This has made her feel more loved, trusting, valued, and less confrontational. She dysregulates less, and when she does, her complaints are more reasonable and appropriate.

I so agree with the concept of fixing ourselves. In this case, using some mindful thinking, I have renewed my love for my wife by focusing on all the wonderful aspects of her that I fell in love with so long ago. They are still there, it's just that time, fighting, stressful events, resentment, and apathy, had dulled my appreciation of them.

One of the lessons in the book - see link High Conflict Couple - is to drag out old pictures, memorabilia, letters, etc., from the happy times in the r/s, and put them in a special place that you can go to and revisit good memories and feelings during stressful hard r/s times. This helps keep your love alive by reminding you of the reasons you stay, and helps you stop the 'taking for granted' attitude. Unfortunately over time many of us started 'taking it for granted' that our r/s would never be a happy one again.

needBPDhelp