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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: What is the connection with BPD and money?  (Read 11334 times)
kj1234
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2011, 07:00:28 AM »

My uBPDstbxw has a great gift for spotting and captilizing on money making situations / entrepreneurshiip.  It's because of her that I'm alot more wealthy than I would have been otherwise.  But she convinced me to invest half our net worth in her home country in her name and now I'm  having  trouble getting my half back . . .

We should be careful about assuming that what we see someone doing to others they will not also do to us.

Excerpt
Came a long way from being a 3rd world poor kid without a dad, earning money from age 9.

My stbxw is also a former third worlder.  I wouldn't generalize, but I think the likelihood of someone having "innate" skills and instincts for gaming the system, and an assumption that people of the USA are fools who can be taken advantage of within a system that lacks accountability, is higher in people from some third world countries.  Shortly before my stbxw left, when she was in an emboldened state with her secret plan well into execution and her next target well hooked, she told me, "Of all the people in the world, only people from [the United States] think they won't be deceived and cheated."  Everyone from my country would do it."  Of course she never said anything like that during the prior 7-1/2 to 8 years I knew her.
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Attagirl
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2011, 10:03:24 AM »

I didn't realize the extent of my ex's money issues until we tried to buy a house together. Turned out his credit was awful, and though he could have fixed some of the issues, he refused to. He had bounced checks, a huge outstanding hospital bill he refused to negotiate or pay, and some other stuff he didn't explain. He raged about being judged by his credit score and about me discussing his private business with our mortgage lender. I began to notice that he paid his bills only every couple of months, when he remembered to. A couple of days before I left, I asked him to pay a bill that had come in. He put it aside and I had to ask him to pay it right then, so it wouldn't be overdue (the utility was in my name).

He was generous about treating me and my friends when we went out, but also borrowed money from his parents.

I am self-employed, with a fairly low income, but was able to buy our new house without his help. Thank goodness! If we'd bought it together, or if we'd had to have his parents cosign, it would have been an even more difficult breakup. As it was, he was petty about money at the end, despite making about three times what I make (and despite knowing that I'd not been able to focus on my work in the last several months).

Sigh. I guess I'm still carrying that resentment. One of my goals is to let go of it, as I let go of the entire relationship.
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Loveofhislife
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2014, 05:42:49 AM »

I think that how someone with BPD behaves with respect to money depends quite a bit on how they perceive that money; ie, if there is any emotional charge associated with it.  

For example, I think that high functioning people with BPD (pwBPD) can perform very well in demanding occupations without their personality disorder affecting their work; I can't see why someone with BPD couldn't be a well paid Wall Street banker.  But the minute the money is coming from someone "important" to the pwBPD, such as from family, or close friends, or a partner, that money is perceived perhaps as an expression of love and/or attention.  And that money is subject to a whole 'nother set of internal rules for the pwBPD.

As I imagine it, when they are getting "help" from someone close to them in the form of money, the "help" is an expression of the love.  And they very much appreciate that love.  But at the same time that they feel closer to the "helper" their fear of abandonment is also triggered.  Such that the minute the "helper" is asking that the money be repaid, the fear of abandonment kicks in in such a way that it becomes "evidence" to the pwBPD that it is a sign that they will very soon leave or abandon the pwBPD.

Consequentially the pwBPD might choose never to pay the other person back just so there is  something that continues to ties the other person to the pwBPD.  To an acquaintance or stranger, they wouldn't have this kind of skewed emotional need.  But to someone dear to them... .you know the rest of it.

Some pwBPD might also get into debt as a means of "self-soothing" when they are upset.  In these cases, over-spending replaces the role that other pwBPD might use drugs or alcohol.

Best wishes, Schwing

I am reposting a member quote herein because it could not possibly have answered my question any better. After my exbfBPD had drained me of untold amounts of $$$, if he ever repaid a dime, he said he wanted to "help" me. He also said, "... .when I pay you back what I owe, you won't need me anymore." His entire life has been focused on money and things. This explains a bit why... .
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merlin4926
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2014, 06:36:54 AM »

My ex pwBPD owes me quite a lot of money.  I realised he kept using it as a hook to get in tough, despite all the promises to "pay me back every penny" he hasn't paid me any of it.  So I told him forget about the money I can manage without it (I could really use it but know I'll never see it). Totally freaked him out.

I just tell myself the money helped him sort the flat out so I'm seeing it like a gift, if he intended to pay me back he would find a way. He owes other people too - only pays them back when he needs something
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Loveofhislife
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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2014, 06:51:29 AM »

Merlin--sounds so familiar.  And I really like your approach.  My T says that the money issue became a power struggle with exbfBPD--something he has used to gain control of me and/or the r/s.  You completely took the control away, when you told him to forget the money.  His control continues to be exerted over me (or so he thinks) with Silent Treatment:  2 months now, since I told him he MUST pay me back--especially since he had helped himself to credit cards, etc. "Are you threatening me?" He has asked multiple times:  that in itself, I believe, is an implied threat from him.
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Loveofhislife
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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2014, 07:04:13 AM »

I often saw the routine of her "getting help" from a friend, and then when the friend started pestering her to pay them the money they loaned her, it turned into some big deal where THEY were in the wrong for "harassing her" and would usually do some big evil deed and get "painted black" so she would just never have any contact with them and thus still not have to pay them back.

Well, this just about sums it up.  My exbfBPD was "getting help" from me for an entire year: A LOT OF HELP, and sometimes he just helped himself when I said, "NO MAS"--I now believe he conjured up some "evil deed" in his mind that I did so that I could be "painted black" hoping never to hear from me again, and he won't have to pay me back.

Ha!  The question is, when will he need more "help"?  That will likely be when/if a recycle of me will be attempted, because he has burned all the bridges with his family who he has stripped black because they no longer will "help" him.  Oh, by the way, like so many in this thread--this guy makes 300% more earned income than I, AND that's only the income that he claims.  Also, in this thread, a poster mentions that we never should assume that what they have done to others will not be done to us.

Amen.
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topknot
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« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2014, 08:32:01 AM »

Yes to everything above. He could flip a business deal and make 10 grand, yet it would be gone instantly,  and he would be borrowing from everyone.  At these times, he still couldn't be satisfied with the 6 dollar bottle of wine. "No, Topknot,  if you can't buy the 13 dollar bottle, don't buy ANY." Tantrum time. Always hitting me up for 20 bucks, never to be repaid. I have given him thousands of 20 bucks, until I finally got angry and started saying no, I have no cash. I am so, so much better financially now that he moved out. And like people have said here,  I make way less than he does.
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AlonelyOne
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« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2014, 09:20:28 AM »

"it turned into some big deal where THEY were in the wrong for 'harassing her'"

Interesting, my S2BX never had the money problem. But then she pretty much worked part time at a good job and kept all of her earnings to herself. Then complained about me generating debt when she didn't contribute much of anything to the family household costs.

But the whole "wrong for harassing her", this WOW yes, this.

In fact, she took a number of pre-marital items. And my merely requesting their return, providing documentable evidence of prior ownership, etc.  Is me harassing her... .*facepalm*

When new bills were added to the household, I was expected to pay them. Of course this would put me into the red, than I'd be criticized for debt. (And I admit I am not the best with finances.) We discussed and I was put on an allowance. Except half the time she wouldn't give me the money.  But I was pretty much blamed for all the spending. If the kids wanted pancakes and she was like maybe we should go out for pancakes. So I pay $60 at Cracker Barrel, that was my frivilous spending.

Truth is, when I checked her spending, it was often only a 20%-30% less than mine. But you see she had all the free income, while I paid every bill but food (she covered food). So during the divorce, she took $10,000 in savings. Arguing that it was hers because she saved it all. (She saved it all because she didn't pay any bills. And most of that savings was supposed to fund the Health Savings Account (HSA) and vacation fund.  Which she never did.  And then she exclaims that all the debt is mine, because I spent it.  (Yes, so when she says we need new phone chargers, and I order them off Amazon, don't you see... .that was my spending.)

So while she wasn't a borrower, she really didn't have need to be. But she was EXTREMELY entitled.
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Tiepje3
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« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2014, 03:30:26 PM »

My high functioning uBPDstbxh has a very well paid job in IT.

In the six years of our relationship though he NEVER ever gave me insight into his financial business. He would always put money into the joint account so I could buy almost anything (within limits) that I wanted and when we couldn't make it to the end of the month, he'd just put in some more. He also paid for a lot of stuff (his own gadgets) from his own account. It was a good life, but I just had to trust him, because I could never budget for something.

He was always in charge of the money and there was always enough (I think). He -for instance- didn't mind buying two motorcycles within one month (it was a great deal he said) and whenever I asked if we could afford it, he'd never tell me the price of his gadgets, only that it was a good deal. So he always stayed in charge (and at the same time treating me like a child which couldn't be bothered with 'money affairs'

He has -since our separation- put some money into the joint account to cover the bills, but not nearly enough to live on with three kids. So I'm at a crossroads right now. He convinced me to quit my job and go back to school, and now I'm stuck. Halfway through my education... .Should I quit my education and try to find a job in my old work field, or try to get as much alimony as I can and finish my study.

He's holding the (financial) ropes, I'm dependant on him. He's still got power over me
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gentlestguardian
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« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2014, 03:46:14 PM »

With my pwBPD, I think it's less about the money itself and more about being able to skirt the sytem and manipulate those around her into giving her money. My pwBPD has been sitting on disability for the last couple of years, which barely gets her by. Instead of working though - which she is fully functionally capable of and could do in part-time spurts - she asks her friends or me for money when she needs it. She feels entitled to it. She also feels entitled to getting disability even though she is capable of working. She says she worked for 10 years in this country so now the government should take care of her. She's not even over 55 yet, and physically very capable. I stopped giving her money and she stopped calling me. *shrug*
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Penumbra66
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« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2014, 10:54:29 PM »

My ex BPD gf came from a very poor family, and as an adult had been living off of student loans, scholarships, grants, and part-time work. For the most part money was used appropriately. However, the day before leaving me for my replacement, she asked me to co-sign a car loan!
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Loveofhislife
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« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2014, 01:57:35 AM »

With my pwBPD, I think it's less about the money itself and more about being able to skirt the sytem and manipulate those around her into giving her money. My pwBPD has been sitting on disability for the last couple of years, which barely gets her by. Instead of working though - which she is fully functionally capable of and could do in part-time spurts - she asks her friends or me for money when she needs it. She feels entitled to it. She also feels entitled to getting disability even though she is capable of working. She says she worked for 10 years in this country so now the government should take care of her. She's not even over 55 yet, and physically very capable. I stopped giving her money and she stopped calling me. *shrug*

Gentlest:  Big ditto.  Money seems to be a mechanism for exbfBPD.  But his real value is sneaking around, manipulating, and getting things over on people--especially the "system."  He uses people indiscriminately--especially women-- in the process, and he does not bat an eye.  He also receives some disability and is working on receiving more (though he too is physically healthy, able bodied and able to work in his profession at a very high salary.)  At the core is his sense of entitlement--he believes somehow that everyone owes him something.
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rollercoaster24
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« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2014, 09:28:39 AM »

Hi all, totally relate to this topic

Loveofhislife, (I wonder if our ex's are related! Smiling (click to insert in post))

My exBP has a degree in one of the mining professions, yet hasn't worked now for almost 6 years!

His Mother often told me that he had always been sporadic in his employment, arguing with people and moving on from place to place consistently, just like his Father.

When he met me, (initially as a friend) I eventually found out that he had been homeless for many years, but had been staying off and on with his parents, or any women he had managed to con, (technically that isn't really homeless then is it?).

I also figured out in August, (when exBP again made contact with me) that he has been telling people that he was only homeless AFTER he had met me, (this is an outright lie) and I couldn't believe I heard him telling me this, nevertheless I didn't bother arguing with him about it, I resisted the urge to fall on the ground with laughter.

BP stayed for free at my home for the whole time he was involved with me, (4-5 years) never paid rent/bills/brought food or did any work for me consistently in any manner.

His contributions were like his love, sporadic, inconsistent, noncommittal.



If I wasn't helping him out, (smokes, food, petrol) then he was getting money from his parents, or stealing things and selling them on again.

To my knowledge he is still likely doing the same thing now.

No surprise.

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AlonelyOne
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« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2014, 10:49:06 AM »

The "entitlement" is huge. See, she feels justified in taking and keeping $10K in savings because SHE SAVED IT. While I racked up debt.  Well, yes... .but the reason for both was her failure to really contribute to the household costs.

She went on a 10 day vacation halfway around the world. I bought a TV.  She saved up for the vacation. I didn't really save up for the TV. Even though I saved birthday, Christmas, and other earnings. Nope, because we had debt. I wasn't saving. The fact that with all the expenditures, I basically had no means to save.

Ya... .

(And I'm the first to admit I'm not the best financially, but I'd be denigrated, than review the accounts and find out she spent nearly as much as I did.)
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Climbmountains91
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« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2014, 11:06:06 AM »

My ex BPD boyfriend is a tight one with money anything to save a £1, he gets it off his dad. He has been bad with money but as far as I know him and as far as I'm aware of his never asked anyone for money or anything. Never asked me or his friends/family anyway. His even taught me a thing or two with being good with money and now I'm apparently better than him with it now Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)! So I thank him for that because before I met him I was rubbish with money Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!

It can isolate him aswell though and he'll lock himself away. Like if money's a bit on the low side he'll stay in for days, maybe up to a week until he gets paid again.
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workinprogress
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« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2014, 11:38:03 AM »

My wife has an estimated 15 credit cards.  Several have balances of thousands of dollars.

Sometimes I think I am just there to pay off her cc's while I go without everything.

She is always quick to say that I contributed to her debt.  Yea right, I helped her max out her cc's for female clothing stores.
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Gimme Peace
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« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2014, 11:42:19 AM »

My stbxBPDh is high-functioning and has always been securely employed with a high-paying job. Too many money issues to list here but I'm recalling a time when he wanted to buy an old Winnebago from a co-worker. It made no sense, the thing barely ran and I was against the purchase, but he bought it anyway (where it sat in the yard unused for several years). He gave the co-worker a partial payment but continued to owe him $400 for almost a year. He had to see this person at work everyday but just refused to pay the man, even though he could afford to. We were friends with this person and his wife and occasionally met them for dinner. It was extremely embarrassing to me but he refused to talk to me about it. We lived in a very small town at the time.

He didn't see anything wrong with not paying him in a timely manner and did not finally finish him until after stbxBPDh left the position and moved on to a different job.

There were many many instances of secret purchases, impulse purchases, etc that he didn't want to discuss with me. Just a month ago, he came home with a new car, after no discussion at all. When I questioned him about it, he told me that I "didn't want him to have anything nice" and I was painted black for about a month.
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rollercoaster24
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« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2014, 12:09:49 AM »

Hi Gimme Peace

There is some solace in the fact that your EX was securely employed, mine wasn't, but still had that sense of entitlement, impulse buys, (that he couldn't afford and often expected me to support him even more whilst he paid them off).

I do understand your frustration though, trust me.

Nothing ever changes with them I believe.

It makes me sick.

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Infared
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« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2014, 01:47:52 AM »

To be honest my exgf was very organised and disciplined with her finances. I have often wondered about that aspect as many here seemed to have had frequent problems with their exes being anything but disciplined and organised with money, but each of is different disordered or not.

I think the borderline pathology can encompass so many self destructive behaviours and issues if it wasn't money, it could be drugs, if not drugs then eating disorders and OCD, etc, etc, whatever the addiction it's a  distraction, a diversion, a control measure, an attempt to fill the core void. Same principle just varied choice of hit.


Sandyb

My experience was similar to yours... .

Thank God that I did not have to have problems in that area with her as well!  :-)
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