Do people say things they don't mean when they're angry?

[once removed]

mybpisevil,

don't want to tell you what to do or anything, just doesn't sound like most of that is productive. doesn't seem like it makes you feel any better hitting back when she's trashing you. it's certainly my experience that arguing with a BPD when they're like that is not only pointless, but counter productive. and i certainly know how difficult it is to resist. i KNEW that and yet i did it anyway all the time. they say something, and your mind gets cranking, and you think THIS time you can stop it. THIS time you can come up with that PERFECTLY rationale, calm, logical, bullet proof statement. every time, it sails over their head. or you hit them back, for whatever reason. this tends to make things worse, or ONLY hurt them. not make them understand or see the hurt they're putting you through. they dont understand that. i also understand a whole lot of BPDs make it very difficult to get away from their berating.

[Fubar]

mybpisevil,

don't want to tell you what to do or anything, just doesn't sound like most of that is productive. doesn't seem like it makes you feel any better hitting back when she's trashing you. it's certainly my experience that arguing with a BPD when they're like that is not only pointless, but counter productive. and i certainly know how difficult it is to resist. i KNEW that and yet i did it anyway all the time. they say something, and your mind gets cranking, and you think THIS time you can stop it. THIS time you can come up with that PERFECTLY rationale, calm, logical, bullet proof statement. every time, it sails over their head. or you hit them back, for whatever reason. this tends to make things worse, or ONLY hurt them. not make them understand or see the hurt they're putting you through. they dont understand that. i also understand a whole lot of BPDs make it very difficult to get away from their berating.

Holy crap!  It's like you're talking about me in the first 18 months after everything came to a head with my uBPDw!

I can't tell you how many times I told my counselor about yet another big blow-up with her yelling and me yelling, and he'd ask me why I was yelling . . . it makes perfect sense now, but at the time it was inconceivable that I'd do anything OTHER than yell back--we were FIGHTING.

I had episodes of rage triggered by my w's refusal to let me disengage.  She's follow me from room to room, browbeating and calling names, and I'd blow.  And as much as I hated it, I'd still find myself falling into that trap because we were FIGHTING--what else are you going to do?

It wasn't until I found myself literally running out of things to say that I suddenly found myself able to NOT fight.  I simply realized that every damn thing I came up with to counter her accusations would simply be either turned against me or twisted around in completely unexpected ways.  And I gave up.  It just didn't work to fight.

I had spent literally months and years trying to use reason and logic and cunning to fight what was clearly NOT reasonable or logical.

I'm still not much good at validation and all the tools available on this site.  But I can say that I've learned that fighting gets you nowhere and escalates your frustration level beyond belief.

[AwareNow]

ANGER/RESPONSIBILITY

The drunk driver who kills the innocent says, 'I didn't mean to do it' The fact is that he destroyed someone who did nothing to deserve it. I see the 'anger defense' as a total lack of responsibility and denial of the hurt and pain they cause. My empathy to those who who are so self centered that they feel justified in saying or doing whatever they refuse to control is, in short supply. Irrespective of what we may define as 'Love', to remain with someone who clearly is more concerned with their own emotional indulgences than the edification of their partners should be left to their own devices away from those whom they cannot or will not love.

AN

[once removed]

fubar,

i think i mentioned i'd (unbeknown to me) been in 3 other BPD relationships so i felt somewhat prepared for this one. i'd more or less learned the behavior "when they go crazy ignore them." the even deeper thing is all the different KINDS of fights, caused by all the different kinds of things. what makes them escalate, vs what triggers full blown psychosis. the episodes where they beat you down, as opposed to the episodes where it's just them complaining about something and YOU just dont get it. as you mentioned, they also just imagine and perceive things. they can't hear you, or understand you, and thats important to remember. and in simple terms, they really do see it/feel this way, atleast at the time. thats why its pointless. it is like arguing with a child, not a brick wall. sometimes it's literally like arguing with a child. it's also interesting to trace back to pre and post breakup and realize how black we were painted.

my ex could push my buttons unlike anyone else too, and she did, so dont feel bad. i never ever rage against anyone. the furthest i ever went was putting a hole in the wall, but that's not exactly insignificant. it's important to remember yes, you are human, and yes, it can make anyone snap. it's also important to realize that kind of stress, especially if constant, is obviously not good for anyone. when i would describe the way it made me feel, i used to take two fingers and rapidly jab them into whoevers should i was explaining it to. yeah. if a person sits there and does that to you, it doesn't take long to snap.

[Fubar]

My rages never took the form of physical violence toward my wife.  It was more of a puffing up, screaming in her face, and feeling like the wrath of god when she would cringe from me (finally--after pushing me into corner after corner).

It sickens me to think of losing that much control and behaving in a way I'd imagined foreign to me.

But I did it, and the only positive thing is that I didn't get physical with her--more pounding tables and doors and walls.

It was so ugly and I hope to never open that part of myself again. 

[AwareNow]

fubar,

I can totally relate. Although my fuse is long, the continue provocation by my ex was not complete until she turned me into a equal chaotic reactive idiot myself. I think we should be commended for controlling ourselves to the degree we did after direct and continual harassment, taunts and daring.

AN

[crushed-not-broken]

Interesting thread... .I lost it only once in my 3 year relationship with my exhusband w/BPD traits.  He would habitually follow me from room to room, yelling at me accusations of having bad motives toward him and at one point I picked up and threw a small stained-glass candle holder at his feet to stop him from advancing.  At that moment, his eyes flared in a gleeful way---he finally had me angry and it was an adrenaline rush for him.  He liked this!  Of course 2 hours later after I sincerely apologized for my bad reaction, he told me that I was "insane".

Of course, it was fuel for his abandonment of our marriage and gave him the ammo for his smear campaign against me, telling everyone, including the pastor at our church that I abused him and I needed a psychologist.  I never verbally told him off, never tried to one-up him or put  him down.  I had no ill-will toward him (and still don't).  He told me once that he needed to lash out when he felt hurt, to which I replied that I no longer have the need to hurt others who hurt me.

I believe the BPD means every word he says when he is angry.  It's the distorted thinking they draw on, distortions which they believe over all evidence to the contrary.  I never once received an apology for his raging and his betrayal of our marriage.  But, I'm moving forward now... .

[Vanityvanity]

I think that people can just dream up nasty, hurtful things to say in the heat of a row - I know I have myself. But I think it's also possible that the lack of inhibition caused by anger can make people reveal truths that were hidden before.

My ex lived with his parents, and every row meant he'd go back there. During a row towards the end, I said, "Oh, run back home to your mummy and daddy!" Because that was what he did so often. Even if he wasn't "having time apart", he'd be spending several nights a week there. He said he had to look after them (they were elderly and ill) but in fact he did very little caring - paid carers came in and his mother did all the housework.

It wasn't just anger at him always being about to leave me, it was anger at really being "the other woman" in that incestuous triangulation.

I'm just rambling a lot here. The way I look at it, it's better than lying in bed feeling miserable or (horrors!) trying to phone him.

[loz1982]

I am on the Leaving Board and I have had my ex call me moron, stupid, slut all because I was trying to make him accountable for being rude to my parents. I don't care if you are angry or not, those words are not acceptable and they will stick. You can apologise all you want but I will never forget them. I get angry but would never dream of calling him name, I have called him a very mean person which he was at times but I have the maturity not to stoop to that level. This is another reason I think my ex has BPD, his immaturity and lack of ability to think before he speaks. My question is, is owning up to his behaviour mean he can change it? Ive asked him to get help or else I don't feel comfortable about coming back but he says he is too busy? Words are words I need to see actions. How can you say someone is the love of your life and then use those names, there is obviously something mental going on there!

[elemental]

I say things when I am angry that are true about what I think and feel. I also say things I really don't mean and I said to make a point to get the other person to feel some empathy.

Essentially when I get truely angry, the filter between my brain and mouth can disappear. Diplomacy and patience are gone at that point. I guess trypically my manners are very good, but pushed beyond limits and I am blunt and it can sound really mean.

I am working on that... .

[Samuel S.]

Yes, people do say things when they're angry. They may be really saying how they feel, and they may not be really saying how they feel. My BPDw continuously says not to take anything personally. As a matter of fact, she drew those very same words "do not take anything personally" and has them on our refrigerator. While this may or may not be true, the fact of the matter is that if you have not done anything wrong, our BPDs have said hateful words, hateful words that can't be taken back. They remain. They may wish to snuggle afterwards, but the fact of the matter remains it is a false way to try to restore stability. My BPDw has said some very hateful things to me in our marriage, and she expects me to forget them, just as much as she forgets them. Yet, the hateful things remain in your heart and in your soul, no matter how apologetic or how forgiving they may seem to appear. So, it is a question if we nonBPDs can forgive and forget. If it is one or several times that hateful things are said, maybe; however, when it is a continuous matter, it is hard to trust them, it is hard to forgive them, and it is hard to forget them.

[maxen]

fubar,

I can totally relate. Although my fuse is long, the continue provocation by my ex was not complete until she turned me into a equal chaotic reactive idiot myself. I think we should be commended for controlling ourselves to the degree we did after direct and continual harassment, taunts and daring.

AN

i am very grateful for this FOG-busting post.