Incoming Continued

[magic woman]

Ex came by last night, so many miles out of his way to another state.  I enjoyed seeing him, I figured he was making a personal visit to push the recycle attempt further.  I know he would not come this far out of his way if he wasn't really emotionally desperate.  He would have skipped the detour if all was going well.  I think he was here for sex, he got homemade chili. 

I have very little anger and it has helped that I accept that I love him.  He is part sicko and part smart, funny guy.  He has been banished to roommate status by his married woman, if that is the truth.  I explained to him the nature of his cycling through women to get that lovey feeling that fades, then he splits and blames them.  He says that pretty much describes him.  He said, and I quote "You are the first one I ever tried to recycle though."  Wow.  He tries to initiate sex and I say I am not a piece of meat and he says, "Yes you are, sweet meat."  Wow again. 

I spent considerable amounts of time just holding him, he doesn't sleep well and sounds fairly miserable.  He walks tall and looks happy and then describes how awful everything is.  I know from reading the boards here he is miserable and is getting ready to make another stupid impulsive move.  Not my problem. 

How she won't leave her husband and doesn't have enough time for him.  How she sees a therapist for low self esteem and anxiety.  I am not numb, but I could have guessed all this just from reading the boards here.  She is cheating on her fourth husband, living secretly I suppose with him and has a slew of emotional problems.  Maybe a perfect match for him or screwing him up worse?  Not my problem.  I remind myself again.  Interesting enough though.

I would have been a wreck over the entire event 6 months ago.  After he left I slept like a baby. 

I keep working on myself but I do have some ego issue here I suppose.  But it was like the enjoyment I had when my son's father (after we broke up) took off on a bike with the golden retriever attached, went head over heels crashing and I watched out the front window.  Something approaching joy there.  We are still friends.

Straighten me out if you can.

[magic woman]

Never sure if I am going forward or backwards.  Or who is the crazy one.

[htl67]

Hey Magic Woman - good for you! I am in a similar sitch with my exuBPDbf - very similar. You sound "straight to me" - very strong and on your way to emotional freedom - yea! I like the way you write, and I had to burst out laughing when you described what happened to your exh, and then said 'Something approaching joy there'... .!

We do the best we can to get through and out of these rships, and then to heal. If it feels good right now to feel a little bit of joy at his misery - go ahead. It's part of the process.

Hugs   

[2010]

Schadenfreude (the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others) appears in the bargaining stages of detachment, especially if there is triangulation (read definition) involved- and a personality disordered man will capitalize on this pleasure you get from his victimization.

Not only does this redirect the blame away from him- it also heightens the jealousy felt by you towards the other woman.  Meanwhile, he gets *you* to devalue the other woman so he can feel better about himself- you feel better about yourself because *you aren't like her* and he plays the both of you like a fiddle and remains in business with you both.

Plain and simple, this is rescuing behavior. It can go on and on indefinitely, stealing away your precious life while you wait for another visit from him. It can also stop you from actually doing anything else but waiting, anticipating his victimization and obsessing over your own rescuing suggestions and whether or not they will be fulfilled.  It's a disorder.

They won't.

Inside that “waiting” are expectations of fulfillment. If you close the door to these visits, you run the risk of eliminating that expectation of fulfillment. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, and Acceptance. This expectation of fulfillment is called bargaining.

What you want to do is get to is get beyond this to the acceptance of the disorder. Then you will see that any comparison of the other woman is really just a personality disordered person's way of getting you to take responsibility for their victimization based upon your own "good."

The disorder is here to stay. If you do not acknowledge it, it will keep you in a state of malignant optimism that your “good” will overcome his victimization and her persecution. That makes you a rescuer.  Tens of thousands of people on these boards have had to accept that their rescuing, their “good” and wishful thinking were only ways to keep them in the game like pawns- used by a disordered person for casting off shame and anxiety over their disorder. In the end, you will come to the slow realization that you and the other woman are very similar and are being interchanged as persecutors while the Borderline feels like the only victim.

Close the door to him and your disappointment and pain can surface like they should.

You'll soon find that once they do surface, and you feel the abandonment depression of letting go of the outcome, the disappointment and pain will no longer be proportional to the discrepancy of *what the relationship used to be and what it has become.*

Believe it or not, you will feel a huge relief when you acknowledge this pattern of behavior as a personality disorder and an inescapable scenario for him. You cannot be living your life like this forever based on his swinging back and forth between you two. You have the power to deny him. You must no longer participate in the triangle. This is an escapable scenario for you.

What "used to be" was only smoke and mirrors. "What has become" is now your truth, the disorder. Don't choose to fight it, you won't win. Accept it for what it is now, not what it used to be.

Acceptance is your friend. It will give you back your life when you refuse to play the triangulation (read definition) game. It will help you stop the rescuing efforts based on the belief that you can make a difference in the disordered game plan that involves three persons. That belief about yourself being a good person has been manipulated from the very start- and it's used to further entangle you as you withdraw. Every time you withdraw, he’ll show up at your door to reel you back in.

A personality disordered person wants to be valued and if you are a rescuer, you are valuing their victimization.  Not only is this facilitating the disorder, it's also keeping you hooked and because it takes the responsibility off of them and places incredible value on what you can give. Nothing is worse than the drug pusher showing up at your door to give you a fix of what you need. Say no. This is a disorder that you cannot control, change or cure. A partner just isn't that powerful. None of us are. You must accept what you can change- and that is your own behavior.  Cherish the acceptance of letting go of the outcome in your thinking and your behaviors.

You do have the ability to survive this and overcome the heartache- but it means not being there for him as a player on the drama triangle. You do have the ability to refuse to participate. If that means being alone and by yourself, that's OK.  You’ve got a board here that understands.

Don’t be so willing and available to him.   It will get better if you let go, I promise.  

[sea5045]

Schadenfreude (the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others) appears in the bargaining stages of detachment, especially if there is triangulation (read definition) involved- and a personality disordered man will capitalize on this pleasure you get from his victimization.

Not only does this redirect the blame away from him- it also heightens the jealousy felt by you towards the other woman.  Meanwhile, he gets *you* to devalue the other woman so he can feel better about himself- you feel better about yourself because *you aren't like her* and he plays the both of you like a fiddle and remains in business with you both.

Plain and simple, this is rescuing behavior. It can go on and on indefinitely, stealing away your precious life while you wait for another visit from him. It can also stop you from actually doing anything else but waiting, anticipating his victimization and obsessing over your own rescuing suggestions and whether or not they will be fulfilled.  It's a disorder.

They won't.

Inside that “waiting” are expectations of fulfillment. If you close the door to these visits, you run the risk of eliminating that expectation of fulfillment. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, and Acceptance. This expectation of fulfillment is called bargaining.

What you want to do is get to is get beyond this to the acceptance of the disorder. Then you will see that any comparison of the other woman is really just a personality disordered person's way of getting you to take responsibility for their victimization based upon your own "good."

The disorder is here to stay. If you do not acknowledge it, it will keep you in a state of malignant optimism that your “good” will overcome his victimization and her persecution. That makes you a rescuer.  Tens of thousands of people on these boards have had to accept that their rescuing, their “good” and wishful thinking were only ways to keep them in the game like pawns- used by a disordered person for casting off shame and anxiety over their disorder. In the end, you will come to the slow realization that you and the other woman are very similar and are being interchanged as persecutors while the Borderline feels like the only victim.

Close the door to him and your disappointment and pain can surface like they should.

You'll soon find that once they do surface, and you feel the abandonment depression of letting go of the outcome, the disappointment and pain will no longer be proportional to the discrepancy of *what the relationship used to be and what it has become.*

Believe it or not, you will feel a huge relief when you acknowledge this pattern of behavior as a personality disorder and an inescapable scenario for him. You cannot be living your life like this forever based on his swinging back and forth between you two. You have the power to deny him. You must no longer participate in the triangle. This is an escapable scenario for you.

What "used to be" was only smoke and mirrors. "What has become" is now your truth, the disorder. Don't choose to fight it, you won't win. Accept it for what it is now, not what it used to be.

Acceptance is your friend. It will give you back your life when you refuse to play the triangulation (read definition) game. It will help you stop the rescuing efforts based on the belief that you can make a difference in the disordered game plan that involves three persons. That belief about yourself being a good person has been manipulated from the very start- and it's used to further entangle you as you withdraw. Every time you withdraw, he’ll show up at your door to reel you back in.

A personality disordered person wants to be valued and if you are a rescuer, you are valuing their victimization.  Not only is this facilitating the disorder, it's also keeping you hooked and because it takes the responsibility off of them and places incredible value on what you can give. Nothing is worse than the drug pusher showing up at your door to give you a fix of what you need. Say no. This is a disorder that you cannot control, change or cure. A partner just isn't that powerful. None of us are. You must accept what you can change- and that is your own behavior.  Cherish the acceptance of letting go of the outcome in your thinking and your behaviors.

You do have the ability to survive this and overcome the heartache- but it means not being there for him as a player on the drama triangle. You do have the ability to refuse to participate. If that means being alone and by yourself, that's OK.  You’ve got a board here that understands.

Don’t be so willing and available to him.   It will get better if you let go, I promise.  

awesome post, that was it for sure,the belief that I was a good person, that is exactly what she manipulate, and I needed to have it mirrored to me bc of my abandonment issues, need for reassurance, etc.  Now i just need to be careful and process why I am programmed like that...

[magic woman]

Darn it - I thought I was getting close to graduating.  I am in a bit of a triangle, however the last time I saw him was September.  I went through an emotional clearing to accept the pain of his betrayal.  I lost two garage door openers, a washing machine, a glow light in my oven, and my car starting making bumpy noises there was so much pain released.  

Are you telling me there is more because all that negative energy being released is costing me a ton of money!

I gave no suggestions for rescue, what he should do, I just listened, held him because he is a hurt human.  I hold back from any revenge because he continues to do that for me - to himself.  Not my problem.  When a thought starts like 'he needs to... " I let it run and turn to 'I need to... "

Every suggestion I had for him in the last year, to help him, I kept for myself.  I figured out that any thought I had of what he needed I should instead do for myself.  I needed it too.  I feel like I have come a long way and am proud of that.  I am no angel though and I risk some contact for my own healing and satisfaction, and as time passes I see that yes, he is mentally ill.  And yes I can love him, but no, there will never be the relationship I thought there would be.

I never was one to jump in the pool, but sort of tip toe in gradually.  Accepting that he has this disorder is a slow process for me.

I have no need to compare myself to the other woman.  He doesn't need rescued, she does.  I warned her a year ago.  But once again, now my thoughts are as far as it gets, and I dismiss them and there is no rescue action from me.  

Yes, I am still a player in the triangle.  I realized that while I was posting.

[htl67]

Wow 2010 - what an amazing insight you have. That post really struck home for me too. Thank you.

[magic woman]

I knew from what I read here that he has been working up to a return.  The buttering up, the woe is me, all the various tactics.  It seemed to me that perhaps he just wanted sex to soothe himself?  But this is me, I am a compassionate person but sex would mean more to me than a temporary soothing - particularly with him. 

I set my boundary, and I think this takes practice for me and is a small step, but I didn't let him cross my boundary last weekend.  I was compassionate, listened and explained to him why it wouldn't be good for me, knowing that it is likely he will go find another or back to married woman to soothe himself.  I have to constantly check the rescuer and I have to be happy with the woman in the mirror.

I think it would be so much easier for me if he was a rager, or abusive, but the sweet variety is difficult for me.  So I am happy about my small victories in boundary setting.  Especially because I see it carrying over into other relationships.

[2010]

I spent considerable amounts of time just holding him. I think he was here for sex. I held him because he is a hurt human.  He tries to initiate sex and I say I am not a piece of meat and he says, "Yes you are, sweet meat."

You are the hurt human here. Who is looking after you? Certainly not this Man who calls you a piece of meat.

He walks tall and looks happy and then describes how awful everything is.

Appearances count. Actions count. Words are meaningless - unless the words hook you into the disorder as a rescuer so he can have sex.  

It seemed to me that perhaps he just wanted sex to soothe himself? I was compassionate, listened and explained to him why it (sex) wouldn't be good for me, knowing that it is likely he will go find another or back to married woman to soothe himself.

You knew he just wanted sex and justified the outcome of not giving it to him- while worried that he would find it elsewhere if you put a boundary in place.- BTW, He didn’t need soothing. *You did.*

So I am happy about my small victories in boundary setting.  I hold back from any revenge because he continues to do that for me.

He continues to hold back revenge against you? Do you think this “holding back of revenge” is controllable only if you are nice and continue to “soothe” him? What do you suppose would happen if you stopped soothing him?- and perhaps soothed yourself?

I enjoyed seeing him.  I know he would not come this far out of his way if he wasn't really emotionally desperate. He would have skipped the detour if all was going well.  (How she won't leave her husband and doesn't have enough time for him.) I do have some ego issue here I suppose.

An “emotionally desperate” Man would not knock on your door, cry in your arms and then become aroused by your compassion. An “emotionally desperate” Man would not joke by calling you a piece of sweet meat when you spurned his advances.  (A manipulative, conniving con artist would.) The other woman doesn't have time for him - but you'll show that you do? NO. Do not feed the disorder. You are not available 24/7 to play with.

The sweet variety is difficult for me.

He’s not sweet. There appears to be an ulterior motive underneath his emotional desperation. Do not think he is naive.

I have no need to compare myself to the other woman.  He doesn't need rescued, she does.  I warned her a year ago.  And yes I can love him, but no, there will never be the relationship I thought there would be.

There’s a reason why you make yourself accessible to this Man while you warn away the other woman. Why is this Man not good enough for her yet good enough for you?

Accepting that he has this disorder is a slow process for me.

Yes, I am still a player in the triangle.  

Straighten me out if you can.

Is it possible that your compassion is expected of you and then manipulated?

[magic woman]

Is it possible that your compassion is expected of you and then manipulated?


Yes.  I believe so.  That is what I am.  Next he will try to use me to untangle himself from his current mess.  Then it will have been my idea.  He is so, so sweet so that he can pull me into rescuer?  Or am I missing something?

[2010]

Yes.  I believe so.  That is what I am.  Next he will try to use me to untangle himself from his current mess.  Then it will have been my idea.  He is so, so sweet so that he can pull me into rescuer?  Or am I missing something?

"There’s a reason why you make yourself accessible to this Man while you warn away the other woman."  I can't tell you what that reason is, but the answer does have value.

Ask yourself this: Why do I continue to allow him access to me in order to lie in his arms while knowing that I warned away the other woman one year ago? There has to be a reason why your compassion for the other woman doesn't extend to yourself.

[magic woman]

Let me try to answer honestly.  I don't know he is BPD, I am 99% sure he is in the ballpark.  I presume that she doesn't know yet, but she will (I say this with 99% certainty).  I warned her then because I wished I had been warned - I gave her evidence of his warped-ness.  It was me to warn her once.  I have said no more to her since then.

While one interpretation is that he is a cunning con man, I think he is clueless.  Aware of issues but not understanding he is the culprit.  So, to sound egotistical, which I suppose I am, I feel like the one who is aware, but not certain - thus my compassion. 

And why did I make myself available to him?  I love him and wanted to see him.  It had been six months.  I went from maybe 75% sure to 99% sure.  I needed to see 'it' again, the disorder, to keep it present in my mind. 

I really don't feel like I am not compassionate towards myself. 

I am examining the 'need to control' and my own projection issues now.  I am quite sure they are related.  Any help with tying that together would be appreciated.

[magic woman]

I am not a psychologist.  The 'sweet meat' comment and the 'recycle' comment just shouted to me because of what I have read here.  His demeanor on his visit and the triangulation (read definition).  Today the text 'Maybe she deserves to be blindsided'.  I have to keep seeing it to believe it?  It solidifies into a 'fact' and then I am better off?

[2010]

Today the text 'Maybe she deserves to be blindsided'.

This is not a clueless man- he's continued to involved you in his relationship with another woman for a reason. Not only because you allow it but because he's using you in his battle with her.

This text is spite. He's sowing contempt at your footsteps. Not only does this keep your hope alive about his return, but it also boundary crashes his relationship with a request for enmeshment. With this spiteful text, he is toying with your heart and expecting you to join him in his fight.

Next he will try to use me to untangle himself from his current mess.  Then it will have been my idea. He is so, so sweet so that he can pull me into rescuer?

If "she deserves to be blindsided,"... .if he has animosity against the other woman, then he needs to discuss this with the other woman, not look to play the heartstrings of another woman (that's you) that is waiting in the wings. Dangling a carrot like this in front of you is one thing, but conspiring to do harm to another person's spirit (with your help) is cruel- not only to her but to you as well. If his relationship with her is over- then it's over. You would have gotten a text (that may or may not have been true) saying it's finished. But what you got was a "she deserves" text.

With your participation, he can create drama- create need (she deserves... .) and based upon your assessment that he's clueless- you take charge, if only for a brief mission. He relinquishes control to you so as to not be responsible for the other woman's persecution (that you help him with) and he can sit back and still be victimized by you both, but now be perceived as a rescuer for the other woman based upon her victimization.

Look closely at his perceived victimization by her and your response as his rescuer, but from the other woman's perception, you will be victimizing her as the persecutor- which forces her to look back to him as a rescuer. Do you see how this works? I'm certain that these two have had allot of experience with triangulation (read definition) already, especially since she's married and he has a girlfriend (you)

This is all based on your need to help him of course, with the underlying hope that he will push her away enough to rely on you 100%.

Alas, personality disordered people don't have the ability to stay with someone 100%. The disorder makes it impossible. Whether he is NPD or BPD, Avoidant or PApd (passive aggressive) -you are being used in triangulation (read definition) and personality disorders thrive in triangulation (read definition). The only way out is not to play- or in your case, rescue.

[magic woman]

Yes.  The pull is very strong.  It is abosolutely amazing how strong.  How completely he is able to read the situation and push the right buttons to manipulate.

I don't consider it my responsibility how their situation turns out though.

[magic woman]

As I read that text I had a physical reaction - an immediate 'bad news' type of stomach turn.  I heard anger in the message, not a cunning con-man plotting his own rescue but a three year old mad because he's not getting candy from Mommy.  I think this is my projection - my frame of reference gives me a particular interpretation.  Another person interprets it differently, likely based on their own experience.

I also had a glimpse of what was likely going on in his mind when he blindsided me.

[2010]

but a three year old mad because he's not getting candy from Mommy.

Yes, this is his perception of her withdrawal, which makes him feel badly about himself. In order to feel better, he must contact you. This is his way to offset his own splitting, and he does this by placing blame on bad mommy (that's her) and seeking out a good representation (that's you.) Not only do you represent good mommy, but you also represent the good that he feels about himself when you align with him against her. That is, until you start to question his motives and his ability to swing back and forth between two women, one good and one presumably, evil.

Often times the married partner is involved in the same cycle as the Borderline and is "splitting" her Husband into good and evil. (She may not even know that the BPD is seeing you, btw. Her withdrawal or his perception of her withdrawal may be because of other reasons.)

Borderline males will choose legally unavailable partners who find them rewarding enough -until- the married partner must pay attention to the marriage and it's then that the Borderline becomes angry at the withdrawing married partner and "acts out" in behavior with a third party in order to punish her.

The pendulum swings back and forth fiercely (enough to ramp up the disorder) especially so with a married person. And when the third party is used to feel better, the triangulation (read definition) is actually based on four people, rather than three- and the movement pivots on the outside partners, mostly without their knowledge of the middle couple who are manipulating the third person's trust.

As you've said, you feel he's clueless about this, but the intent to feel better about himself does involve a certain amount of getting your confidence and trust in believing that everything is going to work out OK. Whatever way he is presenting himself, it does involve you making choices. Those choices are either rewarding to his disordered thought (that all of this back and forth is acceptable to you) or they are not.  

Since this is a thought disorder that is based on distorted perceptions, you might find out that it doesn't matter either way if this is acceptable or unacceptable, the disorder always wins.  He has no choice but to think a certain way about you- no matter how kind and caring you wish to be perceived, you will be switched on a dime and accused of cruelty.

The disorder will decide that the reward (good) in you also has considerable bad bundled with it, as Borderlines cannot see grey areas. There is only all or none thinking, and your interactions with him will only swing the pendulum back with you as a persecutor until he has to contact -her- again as his rescuer.  Since she is also triangulating (read definition) her husband, the disorder is fed well and it will only be a matter of time before he finds her withdrawing and comes back again to you, seeking reward. There is order in the disorder. You can arm yourself with this outline of push/pull and expect it when it happens.

[magic woman]

Exactly right.  But I cannot even attempt to control how he or she perceives things.  If he wants to turn me into a persecutor that is fine.

I am living with a promise I made to be there for him.  Now, that is moving in my mind over time, as to what extent because I see much more now.  Never has he been a rager or violent, more of a waif, but I keep that in the back of my mind.  He is a vet and has proceeded to screw up every aspect of his life since his last deployment.

I have to keep re-evaluating what 'being there' means, because it doesn't mean getting back together as a potential mate.  But for my own self, to look at myself in the mirror, I have to fulfill that promise.

Everything written by 2010, this has been most helpful, so thank you.