For parents of adult children with BPD

[qcarolr]

There are many parents here at bpdfamily.com struggling to find a way to balance life with their grown kids that struggle with getting on with their lives - as we struggle to get on with ours. Often there are the complexities of our grandchildren living in less than ideal situations. And we so often feel so powerless to support them in making better choices and in the self-care that is so vital to our own existence.

So here is a thread for us to share our stories - or give a link to a seperate thread of our stories (copy and past the address bar at top - https://bpdfamily... .) or a link to a resource or thread that has been helpful for you and your family.

One resource that has given me some helpful guidance as the parent of BPDD24 is the book:

"When Our Grown Kids Disappoint Us. Letting Go of Their Problems, Loving Them Anyway, and Getting on with Our Lives" by Jane Adams, PH.D.

It is not about BPD specifically, but helped me to shift my focus to allow DD some space to live her life and for me to get on with mine. Just one different perspective to add to all the other things I have read to keep my hope alive.

We have a limited contact relationship with DD24, that currently is moving in a more healthy positive direction. Our gd5 has always lived with dh and I; we got custody of her at 18 months. DD has been in and out of our home since gd was 8 months old. DD has lived homeless on the streets in a nearby city for the past 16 months when we initiated limited contact with her. This is brief introduction to my current family situation.

Look forward to meeting you all again here.

qcr

BPDDD24

gd5

dh and me

ps. if we can put our family in our signature maybe help me keep straight who is who.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[serenitygone]

Thanks QCR!

just updated my profile... .hope i did it right... .still learning all the acronyms.

I think this is a fab idea.

I know the ADULT piece does make a huge difference.  I can no longer do certain things.

Frustrating is an understatement.

[NeedToBreathe]

I look forward to this... .

BPDDD25 (Ill figure out the signature thing soon)

[qcarolr]

Do you ever find yourself in a conversation with a neighbor or friend, telling a story about life with BPDAC (adult child=AC), and discover they are staring at you with kind of a shocked expression? I was reading another post with the comment "I can say that SD's parents are so accustomed to their daughters bizarre behaviour that they do not identify half of it as being as odd as it is". I think I do this sometimes sharing with one of gd5's friends' mom about DD24 surviving on the street and it just scares them too much to reply. Sometimes I begin to wonder about myself.

Is this something weird about me to need to share this - is this inappropriate for me to be doing? I think it is part of my coming out of 'isolation' after the past few years as gd5 has started riding the bus to kindergarten and playing with the neighborhood kids. I feel like I need to learn to censor myself somehow.

It feels almost like I am standing off to the side watching myself speak unemotionally about my own life and how I am managing it. Sometimes I feel this way when I get positive feedback from you all on bpdfamily.com. There seems to be some disconnect between my mind and my emotions. Sure doesn't sound like 'Wise Mind' to me?

WHat do you think? Am I just plain crazy - or just a normal mom of my BPDDD24? Do I    or      ;p  :'(  

qcr

[Togetheritispossible]

Looks like your plate is full! Peace to you and your family... Not easy but we stick together... I cant quite imagine your spot but ... how did you finally let go a little bit?

[NeedToBreathe]

It feels almost like I am standing off to the side watching myself speak unemotionally about my own life and how I am managing it. Sometimes I feel this way when I get positive feedback from you all on bpdfamily.com. There seems to be some disconnect between my mind and my emotions. Sure doesn't sound like 'Wise Mind' to me?

You are absolutely not crazy!  I can completely relate to this.  Ive never been convinced that it is a  true disconnect as much as I feel its a tolerance, much like seeing the same scary jumpy part to a movie over and over.  The first time, you jump... .your insides go nuts.  After that, there's no more jumping or reacting.  Maybe even you laugh?  Thats not crazy... .I think its very normal.

Now, throw in some unsuspecting bystander who has never seen the movie and you tell them what you saw with no reaction.  They are going to imagine how THEY would react, which of course would be jumping etc.  They look at you and wonder how you cant react like they would.   Its just two different perspective places for two different people.

Ive dealt with this for years as I became tolerant to my DD25's constant crisis.  People would ask about her and I did both things.  I would be honest and tell them, without emotion and Id get the same blank stare and abrupt exit of the convo.  But Ive also tried filtering and just mentioning any grasp of positive I could find, hoping they wouldnt ask more.  but, then I felt like a liar and almost as if I was betraying myself and my own feelings.  Where is the happy medium?  I dont know.

I remember my sister telling me that she was a little angry at me for my disconnect.  She couldnt understand how a mother could be so unemotional about the situation, but then my daughter stayed with her for a week.  She called me and told me the truth and then said...   " I really get it now... ."

So, do you need to filter for others?  I dont think so.  If they are close enough to you then they will choose to understand.  Strangers dont really need to understand and matter really little, but now that your gd5 is in school I also understand how you fear this could reflect on her?  I dont care to have my son or my daughter be tagged with "the kids with the crazy sister" label.

More thought on this one is good... .hope we can figure it out together!  I dont have the answer but I can relate!

[blackandwhite]

Is this something weird about me to need to share this - is this inappropriate for me to be doing? I think it is part of my coming out of 'isolation' after the past few years as gd5 has started riding the bus to kindergarten and playing with the neighborhood kids. I feel like I need to learn to censor myself somehow.

I think we all struggle with this. I have a different situation (different pwBPD in my life), but also face the question of what to say, to whom. It's a balance between not wanting to overstep the relationship/situation by providing disturbing or too-intimate information on the one hand and being real and open on the other. I also want to balance my need for support with protecting relationships from family chaos. I have some loose guidelines for myself:

• I don't share about my situation in a work context, except with a long-term colleague with whom I also have a friendship.



• If I get questions about my family from casual acquaintances or strangers, I have a few stock answers that I use that are truthful but not too revealing.



• With close friends, I am more open. If they seem genuinely interested, I will share about my situation.



• I discuss if asked, and if I want to initiate, I ask permission. "Lots  been going on... .is this something you'd like to hear about?"



• With close friends who are interested, I tell the story as it is, warts and all. Yes, I think it is shocking. I try to summon my balance when talking about it, but if I'm still processing something that happened, with a couple of good friends who know the story, I simply tell them and get their feedback.



• My DH is a good sounding board, but I also ask his permission and let him know that it's okay to stop discussing. Sometimes I say "Okay, let's think about something else for a while" and move us back to daily life. I don't want family stuff to take over our lives.



• I have a good therapist, so that gives me an outlet and I don't need to process too much with others.

I'm not sure if others have guidelines for yourself? If so, what are they?

 

B&W

[NowIKnow]

No one has responded to my question on another thread about whether their children had tantrums when they were young - but my d29 certainly did.  There was no point in time when her behaviour changed - she was angry as a toddler - and she continues to be so.  I agree that our family built up a tolerance.  D29 was prone to anger, black and white thinking, assigning saint/sinner status, etc. - that's just who she was.  As my xh said recently - at first we thought it was a childhood phase, then we though it was a teenage phase, then we thought it was a young adult independence phase - but now that she's almost 30 (married with two children) we realize this is NOT a phase! 

She is, of course, undiagnosed.  A couple of years ago during one of her "I hate Mom" periods, I offered to fly to her community, spend a week in a hotel, and arrange for some intensive counselling for the two of us.  She refused.  But she DID manage to convince Dr. Phil that I was evil and the cause of all of her issues, so we were (apparently) invited to go on his show - but only if I would agree to attend.  I refused.  My other daughters all wanted to attend, but I knew d29 was only interested in my public humiliation (which she takes great pleasure in.)  The girls said they would all stand up for me (which I know they would have) - but - I'm a private person and have no desire to have my family issues turned into public entertainment.

I don't know when we could have or should have sought help for her, and it's certainly too late for us to do anything for her now - but it's not too late to do something for ourselves.  Her recent acting out created chaos for her sister when she was getting married.  Her raging also turned into a tirade of brutal Face Book insults about several family members (including the Bride), and the release of personal/private information about some family members.  And I'll tell you - that brought out the 'mother bear' instinct in me.  For the first time EVER - I experienced serious anger at d29 - and it has not yet passed.  Although this was not the first time she had use FB as a weapon - she has now breached the tolerance level for all three of her sisters, her father and step-mother, and me (her mother).  My mother has joined forces with her to fuel the fire - although my mother practices a more cunning approach to hurting people - something she has perfected in her 70+ years.  They make quite a pair - considering that they hated one another and hadn't really spoken for over 10 years.

At a deep level, I love my daughter - but at this moment - I do not like her, do not respect her, and do not trust her.  If she was not related, I would cut her cleanly from my life and never look back.  If/when she comes back, she will never be granted access to my FB page again.  I will cautiously accept her back into my life as I have always done before - but I will no longer tolerate her abusive behaviour or allow her to hurt and humiliate me or the people I love without firmly and respectfully communicating my disapproval of her behaviour.  Undoubtedly, this will turn me into a villan and she will shut me out again - but I'm OK with that. 

While she is clearly mentally ill, I am tired of making excuses and walking on egg shells to make her happy when I now know that I can never do that.  I am also tired of feeling bad, guilty, afraid of whether something I have said or done has or will set her off - and I am tired of being punished for doing what I thought was best when she was young.  She is the daughter I rarely speak of - not because I don't love her - but because when I share information with others about my children, I want to share good stuff.  It doesn't have to be big or fancy stuff - we are simple folks who live a simple life.  But unfortunately - d29 doesn't provide me with a lot of speaking material... .

[NeedToBreathe]

While she is clearly mentally ill, I am tired of making excuses and walking on egg shells to make her happy when I now know that I can never do that.  I am also tired of feeling bad, guilty, afraid of whether something I have said or done has or will set her off - and I am tired of being punished for doing what I thought was best when she was young.  She is the daughter I rarely speak of - not because I don't love her - but because when I share information with others about my children, I want to share good stuff.  It doesn't have to be big or fancy stuff - we are simple folks who live a simple life.  But unfortunately - d29 doesn't provide me with a lot of speaking material... .

I can very much relate to, understand, empathise and validate your feelings.  I think you and I are in a very similar place right now.  Going NC is necessary at times.  For how long is up to you and no one else gets to decide if its for a day or forever.  Its very difficult because as Mothers, your never "suppose" to want to say your done.  We are forced to love them in ways that other mothers of normal children dont have to, yet fear judgement from those same people.

Its ok to say you refuse to accept those behaviors in your life in a way that is protective and healthy for you.  What are you doing for you?  Its your job to take care of yourself.

NTB

[qcarolr]

No one has responded to my question on another thread about whether their children had tantrums when they were young - but my d29 certainly did.  There was no point in time when her behaviour changed - she was angry as a toddler - and she continues to be so.  I agree that our family built up a tolerance.  D29 was prone to anger, black and white thinking, assigning saint/sinner status, etc. - that's just who she was.  As my xh said recently - at first we thought it was a childhood phase, then we though it was a teenage phase, then we thought it was a young adult independence phase - but now that she's almost 30 (married with two children) we realize this is NOT a phase! 

NowIKnow - there is another thread from awhile back that addresses the subject. I'll look for it and post a link. The truth is there are many times for many of us here at bpdfamily.com that the out-of-control behaviors started at a very young age and never stopped or got better --- no matter what we did to help along the way. Maybe it is part of the temperment our kids were born with - 'hard-wired anger' is how I often thought of my BPDD. My last entry in DD24's babybook was at about 11 months and consisted of her tantrums that often lasted 45 minutes or until she screamed herself to sleep. Sometimes she screamed so much she lost her breath and passed out briefly. The pediatricians comment when she got her baby shots and this was that she is a "breath holder" and he discussed that if she passed out what to expect and not to panic - her body would breath and she would wake up. Maybe this is a little off track. I have lots of words and sometimes spill too many here.

The point is I was a very proactive mom, and had a nephew (SIL son) that had ADHD and had been in a similar behavior pattern. So I started with DD at 2 1/2 at a psychologists to help with these behaviors. Looking back - I see my own resistance to being told to mother and different way - ie. it was not DD's problem, but my inconsistent, lenient parenting. Now I know if I had the tools I do now, I would have reacted in a more validating way with DD as a toddler. But the harsh reality is that in the long run it may not have made a lot of difference. Because DD ALWAYS RESISTED VERY WILFULLY ANY ATTEMPTS TO HELP HER. She did play therapy at age 5, she was inpatient at a psych hospital at age 6 for 5 weeks (dx ADHD and bipolar), we tried various medications - which she resisted taking. She had an IEP in school (she does have a dx'd non-verbal learning disability as well as the behavioral/mental health issues). I had come from a large family, had helped with my younger siblings, baby-sat a lot, had lots of expectations about being a mom. And this child just seemed to defy all of them from the begininng. I read all the books about raising a difficult child, emotional child. Well you get the picture.

All we can do is accept that we have done the best we can as a parent in each moment of our lives, and find the ways NOW to take care of ourselves the best we can, and the rest of our family. The many resources and tools on the site have really helped me to find my way back to myself. And this has led to my limited contact with DD24 and a healthier relationship more of the time. And there are times when she takes a no contact break. There are times I take a no contact break. Only you can decide what is best for you and the others in your family.

Please keep coming back here. We need each others support.

qcr

[whiletheseasonspass]

I want to talk about pain a bit.  I have already written about this a bit in a post on another thread- where qcarol provided so kindly- some definitions for paradox- please see her entire signature at the bottom of all of her posts- which includes this... .phrasing about "paradox"- "living within the paradox" among other intriguing sentiments - and Dear qcarol- I noticed this signature a long time ago but only recently did it start calling to me-   



Regarding pain AND acceptance of pain- I still struggle with this... .so I hope it is okay that I put it here too- in this thread... .my sentiments about this topic.

So about pain but - maybe to accept that there is much pain- maybe one might have to accept that pain will be a part of our lives if we have not done so already.  We can let go and let God... .but for me- I fight against the pain... .I do not want the pain.  I do not want to believe what is happening.  But that pain... .fighting against the pain... .not wanting the pain... .being willful - against the pain... .I think for me- it only makes the pain stronger... .I really believe it makes it giant- by fighting against it. 

I am still pondering this concept and not sure I am ready to able explain clearly what I understand-... .because it is a realization that I am just getting and I think I need to sit with it... .until it becomes clearer.

I am getting nowhere- except achier and more tired and more consumed and more heartbroken by not accepting that pain is part of this- by RESISTING it- and  like at NAMI meetings- they say- you must go on with your life lugging a heavy heart... .now I think I am beginning to understand.  And maybe the part I am beginning to understand is the lugging of the heavy heart - is part of the picture even if you try to make a life for yourself- while the pain is there.  I think I have not been able to go on with my life because I did not think it possible lugging such a heavy heart... .because I have been resistant... .willful... .against this kind of acceptance. 

So I don't know if it makes any sense or explaining it too well- but it is what is working inside me presently... .and I am not forcing anything on myself... .just that a concept about accepting pain came into me- the way the concept of maybe I cannot save my dd came into me... .

I wonder if anyone else has thoughts about this- I am not saying I can accept the entire picture with all of it's confusion and contradictions- just trying to understand the pain part... .the resistance of it... .;p  

wtsp

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[NeedToBreathe]

It seems to me like there are various moments of acceptance and realizations of different things.  At one point, you accept and acknowlege that you cant save them, that there is nothing you can physically do to change the situation or make them better.  Ive been through that one.  There was relief within sadness together.  The pressure to save and the emotional exertion that goes with it was gone, but like you said, I still drag around this heaviness and ache, learning to keep going ahead to find my happy despite.  Im not always successful but there are moments.

Then there is accepting that ache, that pain.  I find too its a bit harder to accept because it does NOT feel good.  I cant deny the fact that my life is better when my daughter isnt around or when I dont have contact with her.  There is guilt in that itself though.  Sometimes I get very confused and have to ask myself if avoiding contact with her is what is right and healthy for me (and sometimes her too) or if its just my way to avoid the pain, the more intense pain that is. 

Maybe its what you do with the pain that really matters?  There are days when it makes me escape to bed for an afternoon surrounded by balls of kleenex.  Other days it drives me to get something done, something I CAN change, even if its just a pain color.  Letting the pain destroy you or stop living your life helps absolutely no one.  Making the choice to not let that happen may be what acceptance of the pain really is?

[NowIKnow]

Thank you NTB.  I have noted that you and I seem to be in similar places - and I have strongly related to other posts you have written. 

This past month has been extremely difficult for me - perhaps because the 'dance' has finally changed.  For the first time ever, I saw d29 working to destroy an important life-long memory for one of her  sisters.  That is an unforgivable act of abuse against one of my children - regardless of who the abuser was. 

In the past when d29 cut me off or villified me, I was tortured.  The sadness, emptiness, guilt, etc. were constants weights in my heart - and therefore in my life.  But a couple of years ago, somewhere in the midst of one of these periods, I took the Serenity Prayer to heart - and accepted that I could not change her opinion or treatment of me - but I did not have to wear them.  It was a miracle - because the peace settled in.  And essentially - that was life altering.

There have been other incidents since then.  I tell her that I love her, remind her of the boundaries, she blocks me and publically insults me - and I've been OK - until now.  As I said - this time I got angry because she publically targeted one of my other children.  But even that has passed.  It's my mother who is the problem now because she has become a surrogate for d29.  She has taken this opportunity to turn cousins against each other - literally writing to her grandchildren and asking them whose 'side' they are on and encouraging them to side with d29.  She is tearing her family apart.  But this is not unusual behaviour on my mother's part.  She did the same thing to her children when we were young.

But your question is a good one:  What am I doing for myself?  The answer is:  Not enough.  I am extremely stressed right now, and there are few places to turn.  I need to think about designing a wellness plan.  Thanks for the reminder

Hugs to all heartbroken mothers 

[NeedToBreathe]

Im so sorry that you now have to deal with your mothers dysfuntional way of dealing with this too.  I can imagine how it puts a new painful twist on things.  What we have learned about boundaries and acceptance, that we cant control or change our daughters is true for ANYONE that has such a negative influence.  Hell, some days I feel like its safer and less work to hermit, but thats not realistic or a good thing either.

Someone said in another post how they revisit needing therapy or help every once and a while.  Im not suggesting you should go to therapy but instead go back to some of the tools you learned and probably used a bit more a couple of years ago.  I know that I for one can get lazy about my own self care and forget I have tools that really helped me sift through the HUGE range of emotions.  Im there now, like you.

You have already taken a step towards that just like I have, by seeking out support here on this site.  I am honestly amazed at the similarities, if not mirrored feelings and experiences on here, especially in this particular thread and section.  I feel comforted, understood and validated.  What a wonderful start to some much needed self care huh?

NTB

[qcarolr]

For all my friends here at bpdfamily.com - thank you so much for sharing in this thread. There just seems to be a great outpouring of need here right now with so many of us with grown children struggling with BPD, whether they have an awareness of this dx or not. There is so much pain, yet compassion and wisdom from everyone participating. We are survivors, and with the support we can give to each other can move on to live life as so much more than "surviving".

Today was a very hard one for me - just out of sorts and irritable. Dh and gd5 sure don't deserve my loud grumpiness today ;p  So I will take all your words to bed with me now. Sundays are hard as dh works, and gd5 friends are often not available to play. Just a little whining I guess. So off to bed and hope to have a moment to stop in tomorrow.

qcr          

 

[NowIKnow]

I'm grateful for the patience, wisdom, and caring here

qcr - I had a pretty terrible day yesterday too.  I woke with a headache that didn't ease until just before dinner, despite a fair amount of otc meds.  The headache kept me from doing work-related activities that I needed to get done this weekend, and I suspect that just added to my stress levels and the headache  

NTB - Your note about self care was a Godsend.  After reading it, I began to consciously pay attention to what was going on with me and I noticed that my 'old' stress response behaviours were manifesting  Tense muscles, physically 'freezing' (moving as little as possible), turning inward (disconnecting from present circumstances and people), circular thinking.  It's been years since I've experienced this degree of stress, and I took a few minutes to remember just how totally non-productive such behaviour is.  That motivated me to get up and tidy my kitchen, eat, think about yoga (although I didn't actually DO any - I will!), began to look for some small projects to sew (my BEST stress reliever!), made dinner, and sewed a couple of small projects.  My headache was but a distant memory by then, so I signed onto work and finished the few projects that were hanging over my head - and Whew!  By 11:30 last night I felt like a new woman!

Today, my clh and I will take a day-trip to a nearby beach.  It's our second anniversary tomorrow, and the beach we're going to was one we visited when we first began seeing one another.  Thankfully, this man is wonderful, and although he's never experienced family dynamics like what's going on right now with d29 and my mother - he is extremely patient with me and says he completely understands why I am stressed.  Both of us deserve a solid day away from the insanity to walk on the beach - and we both deserve my commitment to maintain my sense of awareness of my stress levels so I can take the appropriate action to not get sucked down into an anxious and depressed state.  Prevention is a beautiful thing!

I hope all of you reading this thread have a most wonderful day!

[qcarolr]

NowIKnow - sounds like wonderful day for you. So glad you are in a better place today. Me too .  Gd5 got up asking to go to the zoo today - so we will. My vacuum broke yesterday, so can quite stressing about the messy house and just have a nice day being a grammi.

qcr

[serenitygone]

good for you both.

the stbx took the grandkids this weekend.  DH & I have pretty much just sat around ENJOYING the quiet.  BPDd hasn't been home since Fri afternoon.

I love the drama FREE time. 

All good things must come to an end... .and they'll all be back late this afternoon.

[qcarolr]

Is this something weird about me to need to share this - is this inappropriate for me to be doing? I think it is part of my coming out of 'isolation' after the past few years as gd5 has started riding the bus to kindergarten and playing with the neighborhood kids. I feel like I need to learn to censor myself somehow.

I think we all struggle with this. I have a different situation (different pwBPD in my life), but also face the question of what to say, to whom. It's a balance between not wanting to overstep the relationship/situation by providing disturbing or too-intimate information on the one hand and being real and open on the other. I also want to balance my need for support with protecting relationships from family chaos. I have some loose guidelines for myself:

• I don't share about my situation in a work context, except with a long-term colleague with whom I also have a friendship.



• If I get questions about my family from casual acquaintances or strangers, I have a few stock answers that I use that are truthful but not too revealing.



• With close friends, I am more open. If they seem genuinely interested, I will share about my situation.



• I discuss if asked, and if I want to initiate, I ask permission. "Lots  been going on... .is this something you'd like to hear about?"



• With close friends who are interested, I tell the story as it is, warts and all. Yes, I think it is shocking. I try to summon my balance when talking about it, but if I'm still processing something that happened, with a couple of good friends who know the story, I simply tell them and get their feedback.



• My DH is a good sounding board, but I also ask his permission and let him know that it's okay to stop discussing. Sometimes I say "Okay, let's think about something else for a while" and move us back to daily life. I don't want family stuff to take over our lives.



• I have a good therapist, so that gives me an outlet and I don't need to process too much with others.

I'm not sure if others have guidelines for yourself? If so, what are they?

 

B&W

I finally am getting back to this reply. These are good guideline suggestions. The one that seems to catch my attention today is:

• My DH is a good sounding board, but I also ask his permission and let him know that it's okay to stop discussing. Sometimes I say "Okay, let's think about something else for a while" and move us back to daily life. I don't want family stuff to take over our lives.

Dh has gotten much better at giving me cues when my rambling chatter is more than he can process. He will say "I have been listening but can't take in more right now." Well there are those times he waits too long then just gets angry with me. Cue for a timeout  ;p  So I get up and do something active for at least a few minutes to reset. Like doing the dishes, checking in with gd5's activity of the moment, petting the dog, going to the bathroom - you get the idea.

So I am actively trying to be more aware of when my thoughts are getting stuck on DD-istis and say to myself stop - let it go for now. Like I have ongoing conversations in my head with DD about choices that could make her life easier - ie. therapy, working with case manger so can get housing help.  The reality is the actual conversation nevers goes like the fantasy one, and this kind of obsessive thinking really distracts me from so my other more pleasurable, constructive things in my life.

The DBT class I am taking is helping me to better understand the tools and skills - and use them - to distract and soothe, observe and describe - to hear the chatter in my head and let it float away so there is room for the other stuff of my day. Like safer driving and getting my work done  

How do others handle this kind of obsessive thinking/worry about your BPD kids?

qcr

[NeedToBreathe]

What a great question... .

I ponder that one too.  How much mental energy am I giving away to this and is it any more productive or helpful than physically getting too involved?

I sat on the couch with my SO yesterday so we could talk about our days.  I brought up yesterdays issues with DD25, but very matter of fact.  He told me he was there for me any time I needed to talk.  I told him that there are days when I need to just vent but for the most part I just needed him to know what was up in that particular day.  There didnt have to be any problem solving or tears etc, just someone ELSE in my physical world that KNOWS.  I dont want to be an emotional burden on him OR myself.  Constantly thinking about our BPD kids is really doing that, but to ourselves.

For me, I need to stay busy.  Not as in an avoidance kind of thing, but since I work a 24 and a 12 hour shift a week, that leaves me WAY too much time in my own head if Im not busy.  When I get motivated and do something productive, I feel better about myself and my day.  I usually have music of some sort on so my simple mind can only accomplish those things at hand... .  doing whatever Im doing and listening to music.  Its like taking a break from those damned voices and scenarios that can play havoc on my mind.

Today I plan on doing just that.  It will be my first day of mowing this year.  I love to mow... .  its mindless work with a nice result and I can wear my ipod the whole time 


NTB

[ems mother]

How do I deal with my own mindgames?

I knit and knit and knit.  My h and parents have all the handknit socks a body foot could want.  I also spend a lot of time with the four-legged anti-depressants

And now, thanks to all of you, I vent to people who understand where I'm at, won't take offence at my obsessive worrying, and who encourage me to get well.  

Thank you,

Ems Mother

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

I was searching for information for "Grandparents Raising Granchildren" for another bpdfamily.com thread, and discovered some good links. I have to go be a grandma for awhile now and plan to return to post some here.

Do any of you grandparents out there have resources you would like to share?

qcr  

[qcarolr]

Here is link to my thread about grandparents rights.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=145769.new#new

qcr

[pfaye]

I really hope that more people will continue to write about their adult children with BPD experiences. It helps me feel empowered to hear others voices, who managed to raise their BPD daughters by the grace of God, and who have been through the bloody battles, never winning or hoping to win the war, never figuring out just where that "enemy" came from, but continuing to march forward in life--all marked up with scars, but each seeking true healing. I'm so glad I found this place of respite and understanding.  No one could ever begin to understand the behaviors and splitting and chaos we all face at the hands of this illness, that is, unless you are one of us. My daughter is now 34 and just about to get married for the second time--no kids--but wanting them this time around with the 26 year old man she will marry in a couple of months. It scares me to think that this 34 year old child who could never stand to be around a baby wants to "please" her man with this.  She has alienated this guy from me from the day she started to date him. They moved away to a coastal town and they spend every waking moment together. When they do come visit, they stay most of the time in a room with very little interaction with any of her family.  Before they leave, she always manages to start her chaos and stomps off, with him in tow to the car for her exit. She has him and his family convinced that I am a mental case. I run a successful business and have for the last 16 years. I have had the support of great girlfriends who have seen her behavior first hand. But, it's getting harder, not easier, to talk to them about her when their children have come "into their own" and are responsible people. Most of the time now I don't want to discuss her.  She called me a couple of weeks ago and when I did not agree with her on something, she ranted at me for two hours on the phone. I did not lose it with her; tried to show empathy, and just told her truths calmly.  She got so into her ranting and the last thing she said was that she'd have to let me know when "she" decides if she has to permanently cut me out of her life; then, of course, hung up. Haven't heard from her since. And, I have to say, I'm happy that I'm not stressing about the prospects. Last time she ranted at me like this, she disappeared from my life for a whole year.  Things were good for awhile when we re-connected, but slowly went back to business as usual.

I'm done with the guilt trip. It lasted a good 32 plus years. I cannot remember when my DBPD was happy. or I was happy being around her.  I have no recollection of happy times with her anymore and that's sad.  Again, I'm marching on. Thanks for listening!

[qcarolr]

pfaye Hi!

Glad you found your way over to the 'supporting our kids with BPD' board. There are several parents that regularly post here with adult kids on this roller coaster ride. Have you checked out the first post on this board, What can a parent do? ? This helped me so much when it was me that was trying to go no contact/limited contact with my DD25 about 18 months ago. Things are still unsetteled, but going better. I too am trying to not get my expectations up too high - trying to take it a day at a time. The biggest difference right now is that even when the drama happens, we both seem to recover more quickly. And her life is hard - I try to find compassion for the very intense place she must find herself sometimes.

I am so sad for you in the loss of your little girl - and you have been grieving this for such a long time. She survives by splitting and projecting what is unmanageble for her - and as with many of we parents it is so often heaped upon the mom. Even if there is no contact for a period of time, we do love our DD's and cannot totally turn our hearts off to them. Such suffering this pain can cause us. Indeed it is so good to have this board to come to share, vent, be heard with any judgement.

I also can identify with the isolation that we put in place to protect ourselves with others that have more 'normal' parent/adult kid relationships. My dh and I have found we isolated ourselves so much from all our friends and family over the past 10 years - really since my DD25 was 15 also. Though she was always a difficult child to cope with. We are both making a very conscious effort to reconnect with others around us. It is hard, and sometimes kind of scary.

I have been working with Detachment with Love and Radical Acceptance along with the other DBT skills. It encompasses so much more that the S.E.T. skills of 'support, empathy, truth'. Only time will tell if the current improvement with DD will last through the inevitable chanllenges she faces in her life. Yet I feel stronger than I ever have - really in my whole life - and think I can better weather this storm. I want to encourage her to continue moving toward accepting and participating in a group at the mental health center - yet need to be so cautious to not overstep and push so she blames me for messing it up somehow and back away. Finding the balance between truly helping and enabling is still so hard for me to see.

I hope you keep coming back to share as you need to. You can click on 'new topic' also when you first come on this board. There are so many that can gain insight from your experiences, as well as give you support when you need it.

qcr        

[ems mother]

Hello pfaye

My d33 has been talking lately (to others, not to me) about wanting a baby.  She did try to tell a family member a year or so ago that I wanted a grandchild from her, but that family member had the sense to tell her to ask me outright if this was in fact true.  She never has asked me but has talked to several others about the idea of having a child.

The idea terrifies me!  And I imagine you must feel the same.

I too have gone through periods of being cut out by me d; however, she can't seem to get past a few weeks without trying to draw me in again. 

She has him and his family convinced that I am a mental case.

  Remind yourself, "that is their problem."  They may eventually come to understand this terrible illness, and no  one will thank you for telling them.  We may find some of them on this board later and will be able to empathize with them then.

run a successful business and have for the last 16 years. I have had the support of great girlfriends who have seen her behavior first hand. But, it's getting harder, not easier, to talk to them about her when their children have come "into their own" and are responsible people. Most of the time now I don't want to discuss her.

I too run my own business and have people asking me about d all the time.  I now just say that she's living in         and is doing ok.  As for their children's accomplishments, I can honestly feel joy in seeing  someone else's chicks successfully launched from the nest.  That being said, I have a lot more friends that have one or more children with spouses or significant others and children living with them.  So the grass is not always greener in someone else's pasture.

Please start your own thread on this board.  You fill find it tremendously unburdening and validating, especially when others can relate to your experiences.

qcarolr:  my apologies for hijacking  ;p

ems mother

[Haven2011]

Just wondering how others handle the silent treatment from their daughters whom they continue to support even though they have left home. We don't here much from her until we have messed up or she would appreciate some financial help!

Do you continue to send unanswered texts/emails or just try to disconnect and wait to hear from her?

Thanks for the support!

[qcarolr]

Just wondering how others handle the silent treatment from their daughters whom they continue to support even though they have left home. We don't here much from her until we have messed up or she would appreciate some financial help!

Do you continue to send unanswered texts/emails or just try to disconnect and wait to hear from her?

Thanks for the support!

Haven I encourage you to start your own thread with this topic - Silent Treatment and going low contact. There will probably a lot of parents that respond. It is so hard to let go of our kids that seem so needy - well they are needy in that moment. Yet, as I let go of my DD even though she was homeless and wanted to come back -- I can see now that it was the best thing to do. She is just starting to take some baby steps to accept some responsiblity for her life - for the pain and loss she has suffered - and for being out of our home except recently to visit her daughter. She has stopped accusing me of stealing her daugher, has worked throguh a denial period of withdrawing from gd5, and we have had several very good visits at the house without any drama when it is time to go. I do believe that none of this would have come about if we had continued allowing her outbursts to control our decisions willy-nilly while living in our home and doing whatever she wanted without regard for anyone else in the household. But oh, it was so so so so very hard to maintain this boundary.

I have learned to not reply to anything that feels abusive to me, even though I realize it is her projected overwhelming emotions - and perhaps how she survives an unbearable moment.  I try to not contact her when she withdraws from me - allow her the first contact. This is also very painful and difficult, but seems to be helping minimize middle of the night distress calls. When she needs something she will call. And then I can choose to say yes, that is something I can help with, or no that is not something I can help with right now.

We have limited our financial support - we are having to pay for daycare for gdp5 (we have custody without any child support) - to a cell phone, monthly buss pass, and purchase of some food and personal care items. DD lives on food stamps and a small cash stipend from the county social services adult needy disabled program -  currently $140/mo.  We are struggling with wanting to help her get off the street as she makes some better choices - and may figure out a way to contract with her to loan 3-6 months rent for a roommate situation with this to be repaid if/when she gets her SSI. It is under appeal for the past 2 years so hope to have final decision soon. And she may accept some help in getting a job with some coaching from voc rehab in our state, but has to wait out the SSI appeal for that.

It is all very complex. And the risks are high that things will deteriorate and we will lose our rent money - have to be willing to accept this risk before we move forward with this idea. And hard to find a place with rent that fits within the budget for us, and for DD when she gets her SSI.

Sorry I kind of stole your posted thoughts here. It is tough to set boundaries - if they fit your values than it is possible to enforce them as they are to take care of ourselves, not to get our kids to change. Though sometimes that happens as a 'side-effect'.

Hope to see you start your own post soon.

qcr

[dona]

Dear Now I know

YOu could have been talking about my daughter in your post... .I can relate to it all... My daughter seperated from her husband over 12 months ago and has been angry and non communicative with me since then as she of course blames me for the break up.  The fact that she was always angry at him and that no matter what he did he couldnt make her happy doesnt count at all.

I am getting therapy now as it has hurt me to the point that I got a nasty case of shingles... .I dont know if therapy is going to domuch for me though as my therapist is using the acceptance and commitment treatment... its like I have to shrug my shoulders at everything that happens and pretend I dont care because I cant do anything about it... .in reality this cant be the case.

Dona

[dona]

I was just wondering if there has been a book written that I could hand over to my daughter that will gently but clearly let her know that she suffers from BPD... .Its so hard to watch her suffer . The other day she broke down about her inabillity to hold a relationship. At that moment I wish I had a book I could have handed her so that she can find out what it is that wont let her be happy so that she can then at least get the right help in life... .I do want to see her happy.

She is seeing a therapist at the moment but I have so little faith in therapists nowadays... .  Therapy has become so "production line".

Dona

[somuchlove]

From all I have read it seems we are not to telling them the have BPD.  Boy I wish I could hand her a book and tell her to not be scared and this will explain why she feels the way she feels.  I just keep wanting to tell my daughter that.  It is so hard when she says things and I just can't tell her,  talk to someone,  they can help you sort things out.  etc etc etc.

If you find a book or someone feels it might help to talk to them about it I am all for it.  When I get so tired of this I want to write,  What are we doing? ARe we just working on ourselves and our well being... .instead of really telling them like it is.  (of which I know that is not how they would hear it.)   hugs to you and I know your pain.  When I have a few more min. i am going to read more of this thread.

[qcarolr]

I was just wondering if there has been a book written that I could hand over to my daughter that will gently but clearly let her know that she suffers from BPD... .Its so hard to watch her suffer . The other day she broke down about her inabillity to hold a relationship. At that moment I wish I had a book I could have handed her so that she can find out what it is that wont let her be happy so that she can then at least get the right help in life... .I do want to see her happy.

She is seeing a therapist at the moment but I have so little faith in therapists nowadays... . Therapy has become so "production line".

Dona

Here are a couple links to a workshop and thread about this subject. You can respond by posting a reply on the link after you open it by clicking on the blue text. I may ask if we could have this on the parents board for comment for a few days. Do you think there would be interest?

Workshop on pros and cons of talking about BPD dx.  TOOLS: Telling Someone That You Thing They Have BPD;  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=76633.0

Thread discussing to tell or not to tell about BPD.   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=107693.0

My DD was informed of the dx after her neuro-psych testing led to the dx a couple years ago. Has not made much difference in her resistance to doing any kind of treatment - even when accepting this dx and getting treatment could lead to her getting off the street homeless. Very frustrating for dh and I. Have to just keep reminding myself it is up to her to choose her path at this point in her life. And we have to take care of ourselves, and gd5, as there is no one else to do that for us. If we are gone, or sick, then even the small amount of support we are able to get through to her (and it is in a good place right now ) would disappear for her.

Hope these links help you all in understanding this complex and distressing disease.

qcr

[FMJ]

Thank you, thank you, QCarolR for this! My 34 yr old uBPD daughter is all but unbearable to me at times. She divorced 4 yrs ago... has 2 children ages 9 and 6... .boy and girl.  Left them for 5 months for relationship w/crazy abusive guy.  Came home after nearly beaten to death... .everyone forgave her... even her ex. Moved in w/us ... .swore off relationships... which didn't last long.  Now is a relationship w/great guy... .but she is the problem in the relationships... .whether the guy is good or bad. Same type of stuff... .almost obsessing w/relationship while kids are put on back burner.  kept them out until midnight last night at the bf's house... .got up early this a.m. and had to go get something from the guy's house... .Just infuriates me!  Oh... .and just spend money on breast augmentation... .mind you, she has virtually nothing and little money... spent what retirement she had accrued at her last job.  Laid around all week here complaining about the pain.  I have my mother's home that she and kids lived in previously... .she is preparing to "move out" and go back there again... .because I think she senses my disapproval at how she is handling the relationship, etc.  She can't stand if I don't just love and jump for joy at everything she does!  I would love for her to move, but worry about the kids... .at least I have a bit of control over the stability they may have.  If it weren't for the kids I could have no contact I do think.  It's all about the grandchildren now for me.  Thank you so much for this thread... .sometimes we just need to vent!

[heartbrokenmom]

Hi everyone

You all are my new family.  You get it.  My daughter is a classic Sybal with the rotating head one minute and the loving daughter everyone wants the next.  No reason or explaination.

For years I have dubbed her Katie Kaboom from the cartoon on Y TV when she was little.  Not too many people remember or relate to this short lived cartoon for children and it did't last long (probably because it scared normal little children)  I found her on U-tube and watched her again years later.  It is unbelievable just how right on Katie Kaboom is.  To check out on a little humour I have sent you all a link to watch this very short clip www.youtu.be/RWcNcJuTHVo

you are going to love it  I promise.

heartbrokenmom

(who still enjoys a giggle)

[qcarolr]

Hi everyone

You all are my new family.  You get it.  My daughter is a classic Sybal with the rotating head one minute and the loving daughter everyone wants the next.  No reason or explaination.

For years I have dubbed her Katie Kaboom from the cartoon on Y TV when she was little.  Not too many people remember or relate to this short lived cartoon for children and it did't last long (probably because it scared normal little children)  I found her on U-tube and watched her again years later.  It is unbelievable just how right on Katie Kaboom is.  To check out on a little humour I have sent you all a link to watch this very short clip www.youtu.be/RWcNcJuTHVo

you are going to love it  I promise.

heartbrokenmom

(who still enjoys a giggle)

WOW - that was pretty scary for me and I am 55 ... .But them guess I am a little PTSD from my years in the 'trenches'. And then she shrinks back to size, thanks in a sweet voice - as if nothing ever happened. YIKES.

Thanks for sharing. qcr

[picturelady]

[I think we all struggle with this. I have a different situation (different pwBPD in my life), but also face the question of what to say, to whom. It's a balance between not wanting to overstep the relationship/situation by providing disturbing or too-intimate information on the one hand and being real and open on the other. I also want to balance my need for support with protecting relationships from family chaos. I have some loose guidelines for myself:

• I don't share about my situation in a work context, except with a long-term colleague with whom I also have a friendship.



• If I get questions about my family from casual acquaintances or strangers, I have a few stock answers that I use that are truthful but not too revealing.



• With close friends, I am more open. If they seem genuinely interested, I will share about my situation.



• I discuss if asked, and if I want to initiate, I ask permission. "Lots  been going on... .is this something you'd like to hear about?"



• With close friends who are interested, I tell the story as it is, warts and all. Yes, I think it is shocking. I try to summon my balance when talking about it, but if I'm still processing something that happened, with a couple of good friends who know the story, I simply tell them and get their feedback.



• My DH is a good sounding board, but I also ask his permission and let him know that it's okay to stop discussing. Sometimes I say "Okay, let's think about something else for a while" and move us back to daily life. I don't want family stuff to take over our lives.



• I have a good therapist, so that gives me an outlet and I don't need to process too much with others.

I'm not sure if others have guidelines for yourself? If so, what are they?

 

B&W

AWESOME advice, thanks, B&W!

PictureLady

[Thankful]

In response to NowIKnow's question about the tantrums, my BPDd started the tantrums very young. It was so hard to even take her to the grocery store. She would misbehave so badly, and if I corrected her she would start screaming like I was torturing her. She was always throwing tantrums. When she got a little older and was playing sports, if there was even the slightest injury she would hit the floor and start wailing. Sometimes it was faked to get the attention of people. So the tantrums were part of her behavior in childhood and even continue to this day, if she doesn't get what she wants. I noticed her behavior was unusual starting about the age of three. It's been a long difficult road.

Thankful,

BPDd43

[shoshana]

Is this something weird about me to need to share this - is this inappropriate for me to be doing? I think it is part of my coming out of 'isolation' after the past few years as gd5 has started riding the bus to kindergarten and playing with the neighborhood kids. I feel like I need to learn to censor myself somehow.

I've found that I need to talk to someone about my D22 w/BPD and so I choose from a close circle of friends.  Sometimes I feel embarrassed to discuss the problems with people I don't know well.  But I also feel a need to protect my daughter's privacy.  I guess that comes from living in a small town. 

I can understand anyone wanting to "censor" what they say about an adult child w/BPD. A lot of people just don't get it.  And if there's a grandchild involved, his privacy is important, too.  No matter what his mother is like, I think it's important for him to have good thoughts about her.  He should also be made aware of his mother's illness, but I think it's tough for a child to think his mother is a mess.  He might think that makes him a mess, too.

[qcarolr]

Is this something weird about me to need to share this - is this inappropriate for me to be doing? I think it is part of my coming out of 'isolation' after the past few years as gd5 has started riding the bus to kindergarten and playing with the neighborhood kids. I feel like I need to learn to censor myself somehow.

I've found that I need to talk to someone about my D22 w/BPD and so I choose from a close circle of friends.  Sometimes I feel embarrassed to discuss the problems with people I don't know well.  But I also feel a need to protect my daughter's privacy.  I guess that comes from living in a small town.  

I can understand anyone wanting to "censor" what they say about an adult child w/BPD. A lot of people just don't get it.  And if there's a grandchild involved, his privacy is important, too.  No matter what his mother is like, I think it's important for him to have good thoughts about her.  He should also be made aware of his mother's illness, but I think it's tough for a child to think his mother is a mess.  He might think that makes him a mess, too.

shoshana, I appreciate your comments on my quote.  Respecting privacy is an important value, and I have been keeping this in my mind as I am learning to be less impulsive with sharing too many details of my life with others. This is one reason coming here to vent is so valuable for me - it feels safe. And with my Al Anon meeting friends also. I am starting back with a personal T this week too. Toughing it out on my own is just not working ;p  infact it is quite crazy making - how did I get back to this place anyway  

I have always been very cautious with how i talk with my gd6, now a first grader, about her mom. At this young age try to use words and ideas she can relate to. The help of the child T in our lives has been a great help with this develpmental perspective. There is a great thread for this on the 'Coping' board found at this link:

Discussing mental illness with children

I always try to respect that gd6 loves her mom, even when the mommy is not available (physically or emotionally). I am grateful for all the loving adults that are a part of gd's life - my dh and I, aunts/uncles, neighborhood parents of her littel friends. We are very fortunate to have a lot of support and understanding with this limited group of people. Now we are adding teachers and coaches (she started soccer with the city rec center program) and summer camp counselors. All these good role models of grown-up behavior are priceless for gd6.

She seems to be starting to figure out when her mommy's behavior is out of line - and can ask me about it when DD25 is not there. This gives me an opportunity to share how hard her mommy is working to figure out her 'adult stuff' and learn how to manage her angry feelings better. And her mommy is having lots of success with this lately.

qcr

[whiletheseasonspass]

Hello,

I have not posted for a while.  I am glad to see this post for parents of Adult BPD children is still alive.  Of course it would be nice if we were writing on a website about our favorite dessert or how to grow roses successfully instead of what we write about.

Well an update on my daughter.  She is sicker than ever.  I find it hard to believe that she is still living.  She has many ways that she stays sick.  She still has the partner and group of "enablers" that I have written about in past posts -and referred to a "cult-like" group who endorse/ egg on her ways of operating.  I have never been able to post fine details of her story- i.e. exactly what her belief system is that keeps her getting sicker and sicker- and maybe there are a few beliefs that keep her ill or thought disordered behaviors- but I never post the fine details as they are so bizarre and offbeat it would give my identity away- and hers. 

One is that she gets benefit from being ill.  There are other issues.

My daughter is gone.  Someone else lives in her body.  I think I saw another heartbroken mother post that said something like this recently.    DD is in really bad condition and still refuses help for her reasons- that we cannot break through.

I have been able to get past so much in my life- so much that has brought me heartache but not this.  I will never be able to be consoled.  My only child has been missing from my life.  I miss her so much in spite of this wild long journey.  It is like she has been abducted and  I don't know where she is... .yet I do know where she is really... .her body at least - the one with the stranger living in it. 

I look at pictures around the house where she is laughing- at a birthday party or a holiday or about  something - nothing in particular and my heart breaks- I want that daughter back.  I go out somewhere and get triggered by the healthy mothers and daughters and I want that.  Lots triggers me. 

I think once I realized more and more that I cannot save my daughter- the more it got inside of my bones - this reality... .the more depressed I have become.  I find myself lately in a store or in my car or anywhere and my eyes fill up with tears.  I cry at so much.  I did not cry like this at the drop of a pin until maybe a month or so ago.  Something changed with our daughter... .for the worse.  It was like one last possible loophole on my pipe dream list to save her was scratched out of existence.  So it felt terrible.  It feels terrible... .like the last door shut... .on the light at the end of a terrible tunnel. 

I watched the 9-11 ceremonies and cried along with the people who have lost loved ones... .and if was a child who was lost- I cried harder.

It occurred to me- that instead of continuing to read books about communication skills etc although I have read them all along- I would start reading books about grieving.  I need to grieve and am already doing it anyway - I feel like I am.   

I have a book I started reading called THE WORST LOSS.  It is about the death of a child.  I found the chapter on suicide even if it so morbid ( Chapter 14) particularly interesting for much of what author who deals with mothers who have lost children describes- i.e. how the mothers feel- is exactly what I feel.  My daughter is slowly committing suicide - her body is still alive but she - the real her is gone.  But the descriptions in this book- this chapter- how the author words the emotions felt by the grieving parent is just how I feel.  Even the shame.  The feelings of failure as a parent to keep my daughter on the right path.  I know that lots of this is genetic but I see where I could have done things differently... .and I can't go back.  That not being able to go back- is tough. 

The book describes a father who agonizes over his son who he could not save from his drug habit.  The way it felt to know his son was living on the street.  He said his son would come to his house when the son was sick or broke and asks - "do you know what it is like to see your son like this?" he asks.  He says he - the father - and his wife tried so many things for years.  He still felt after his son death O.D.  that he - the father- should have been able to do something nonetheless in hindsight to have prevented his son's death.   He believes the O.D. was intentional based on things his son had been saying. 

I know how he feels.  There are other accounts in this book that I can relate to how the parents feel.  And yet my daughter is still breathing.  Still I can relate to the pain. 

By writing here I am doing one thing that the author recommends and that is talking about how I feel to those who would understand and not try to shush or invalidate me. 

I feel as if my real daughter has died.  The laughing, bright, funny, beautiful, intelligent daughter who once brought me joy is no longer there.  She hasn't been for a long time.  But the degree to which she hasn't been there- I never knew it could be deeper.  That she is more deeply gone.  Not quite sure how to word this.  Express this. 

And my dh who had his head in the sand is now out of the sand- wc not only makes me feel less alone- but now that I don't have to deal with his denial- I can focus on the realities... .as my emotional energy is not being sapped by his ways.  Believe me when I say that when one parent is in denial and your child is in the shape our child is in- it is terrible.  But now the at least his head is out of the sand... .to a degree.  That helps some.  But it does not bring my daughter to life- it does not get the stranger out of her body.  Yet I am not so alone in this at night when he comes home from work.  That said.  I hate to see his so grim and sad.  He is this way and also mirrors how I feel. 

dh was the one who started reading "I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better".  He described 4 emotions.  Glad. Mad. Afraid. Sad.  ( I think these were them) .   I feel Sad.  I feel Afraid.  I am mad at the situation but not at my dd.  I am mad that I could not prevent this result. 

Meanwhile- all of the above said- whatever life is left in the stranger in my dd's withering body - is still being used to emotionally blackmail and manipulate.  If only the stranger  would use whatever threads of energy she has to get the right kind help instead- i.e. to try and get well but... .she will do this dance because she is stuck in in and the crazy music in her head is too loud to hear anything sensible.   It is so hard to put up boundaries when her long, very bony fingers seem to be metaphorically reaching out of the grave she is digging for herself to pull us in to her "desires"... .to get us to say yes to crazy things. We try so hard not to enable. 

I wish I could report what some of you have reported... .over time... .success... .and I am happy for those of you who have reported success... .I think it all depends on how much is wrong to begin with. IF my daughter had never gotten this physical illness- her brain would not be so haywire.  If only... .that is a phrase I catch myself at now... .and steer myself elsewhere... .which is a habit that is hard to break- but at least I see when I do it.

IF ONLY's get you nowhere!   Nowhere.

IT sounds like I am grasping this perhaps but I must say I still have trouble grasping something so incomprehensible  :'( :'(. 

I still can't understand why there is no help for adult children who need saving instead of their rights protected.    I can't understand.   

I don't whether to press Post as this is such a sad sad post  :'( :'( and I don't want to cast such sadness here... .I don't know what to do... .?

Well it came to me that  maybe I will just in case my post helps someone else even if it is one person or maybe someone who has not joined the website but just reading as a guest.  I know that would've helped me somehow.

wtsp

[qcarolr]

wtsp  :'(       :'(      

:'(

Can I cry with you for a bit? It is always nice when I find somone that will hold me and let me cry - no other words may be needed.

Thank you for the courage to click the 'post' button and share your despair here with us. This is my greatest fear, to lose my DD25. I am glad the book you shared is helping you in this grieving process. I cannot imagine the painfulness, and pray that you can find the support to lessen the suffering, guilt, shame. It is good you and your dh can lean on each other - what are the ways you can build on this?

I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers my friend. Keep coming back to share as you are able - for yourself and for the rest of us.

qcr

[qcarolr]

Hi, I'm new here, trying to figure out how to post and all. I have read all of your messages, and feel that I can relate to everything you all have shared. I introduced myself on the main board, but I'll try to briefly do so here. I so need help right now.

I have a 30 yr. old DD who I am convinced has BPD, with a 9 yr. old GD, although DD was never diagnosed. In one of her moments when she was reaching out desperately for help, my husband told her he thought she might have BPD. Well, big mistake! She has never forgiven us for that or for 'the way we raised her' or telling her in high school that we thought she had a chemical imbalance. She has rejected all of that. She is smart, delightful, and functions well, holds down a good job in the medical field, but with her close relationships it can be terrible. The family has fractured because of her, esp. me. I bear the brunt of all of it. Now we are having trouble with GD because she has turned against her mom. She thinks her mom is a bad person now and nothing anyone says or does seems to be able to convince her otherwise. DD really has done remarkably well with GD, I think because she wants so badly to succeed at parenting, but an unfortunate behavior that GD saw her mom engaged in on the 4th of July has made her believe her mom is bad and a bad example. GD is staying with us now because she is so angry at her mom that she is acting out violently whenever with her. Her anger overflows to me sometimes too. We don't know what to do. We have had GD for over 2 months now, going to therapy, etc etc trying to find a way to get her back with her mom, all to no avail. This is putting even more stress on our relationship with DD who has now started back into her grievances against us and how she can't stand us etc etc and telling us not to stifle GD like we did her. Not to label GD. We've walked on eggshells, we her parents and 4 younger siblings, for all these years. Two siblings are estranged from her, the other two are still allowed to have some kind of relationship with her. It is such a mess. The worst of it right now is knowing what to do with GD. I don't know if I can make it through this. My life is nonexistent now and I have isolated myself from friends and family because it is too hard to protect DD's reputation and because I don't want to have to explain to everyone the 'why's'.  I am in a trap with no way out.

Thanks for listening, and as I have more time, I plan to read a lot of the material here.

livelove,  Hi!  

Thank you for sharing this part of your story with us. It is indeed distressing when our gkids are involved. I struggle so to balance this with my gd6 and BPDDD25. I am always working to try and put the needs of the child first. When I can focus on this it gives some clarity to the decisions that I need to make. So very often their needs/desires clash. Currently things are going better with DD25 again living in our home with dh, gd6 and I. Dh and I have had legal custody of gd6 since she was a baby.

It sounds like you are doing a lot for your gd right now to give her support in making choices to take care of herself. Do you have legal standing to allow you this protective relationship with her? This can be helpful in reassuring your gd that you are there to love her and help her be in a safe, secure place to figure this all out. Is the T helping you with the boundaries needed to also take care of yourself - the closest, safest adult is often the object for projection of emotions just too intense and scary to own. This is certainly true for each of us, certainly a very big issue with your D30, and becoming one with your gd.

Keep reading - on validation, boundaries, radical acceptance. These are the areas that have helped me the most. There are many other grandparents here is situations similar to yours. It may be good to start your own topic thread so others will find you more easily to lend support. You can do this when first opening the board - click the 'topic' button on the top right of the index page.

Keep coming back - we care.

qcr

[justwantedafamily]

dear wtsp,

I'm so, so very sorry for what you are going through with your dd.  It struck such a chord with me-when you said you are grieving for her.  A few weeks ago, I told my physician the same thing; I feel like I'm beginning the grieving process for my daughter.  I do not know how much longer she can last with the way she's leading her life, and it is torture for my dh and me to watch it all unfold before our eyes.  I never thought about reading books about that process to prepare myself, or to even help us deal with what we are having to deal with now.  Thank you for the courage it took to express what your family is going through.  Please know you are not alone in this hellish nightmare of BPD.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, wtsp. 

[whiletheseasonspass]

Thank you qcarol and justwanted a family,

It has been so long since I posted.  It felt correct to write my feelings down.  I did not know whether to press "post"... .but now I can see it was the right thing to do. 

qcarol- you are full of compassion     .  I may not have posted here but I do read sometimes.  I have followed your journey and can see that you have great reason to hope.  Way more than when you first joined.  I have always said that you have lots of wisdom and great instincts.  You do.  You asked me how can my husband and I build on him pulling his head our of the sand somewhat- well that is a good question and I never thought about that - except for taking it for what it was - so thank you for posing that question.   Meanwhile, thank you my dear friend for replying to your friend- me.

wtsp

justwantedafamily,

I think your name is very appropriate and it could easily be mine as well.  That is what I only want more than anything.  I see that you are new at writing here but have read for a long time before you joined.  I am glad you joined and wrote in.  I went back and read your posts.  I can understand your fears about your daughter in so many ways.  With my daughter being ill and reckless- I can relate to what you see in your daughter and the helpless feeling you have.  My daughter does not believe that she is mentally ill.  Not one bit.  She is very very mentally ill.  I always thought that it was important for her to know but now I see your daughter knows but says nothing helps.  That must be very frustrating to hear her blow that off.  I know how that feels as my daughter blows off lots or twists the realities into other things to keep up her ways.    My daughter also will go NC if we challenge her in the least possible way so it is a tightrope all the time- trying to stay one step ahead - using communication skills to not let her slip away again into NC.  She went there recently for about a week because of reasons that are wayward to the normal person. But alas she is back.  This website is what taught me the skills to communicate- knowing that she is BPD'd etc.  But in our case we can't reach her in ways she needs to be reached- like to save her life- no matter how good we have become at communication skills.  I want you to know I understand your plight so much- although I do not have gchildren but I understand your concerns about your dd. I feel for you  .  And I wish you the best.

   

wtsp

[livelove]

qcr-thank you for your kind words.

wtsp-I weep for and with you as I read your story. I can relate to it, as I (and I'm sure all here) have grieved the loss of their afflicted children. We see their misery, and we are a part of it. I have said from the teenage years, when d30 would batter me verbally for hour after hour with her foul language, that I still believed that was not really her, that the real her was still there somewhere. I still believe that, but don't know if I'll ever get to be a part of that again. I too remember vividly one moment that I deliberately fixed in my memory of d30 dancing and spinning around the room with her then 3 yr. old daughter, just two beautiful free spirits having fun. It didn't last, but that is the image I will always hold onto. It was a beautiful moment.

Don't feel bad at all for grieving with us. We all have to have some outlet for our grief, and I'm glad I once again looked for a place of support. I tried another site a few years ago, but there wasn't enough regular traffic for it to be of much help.

I have done a fair amount of reading off and on over the last 12 yrs. or so, and have just not found anything I could apply successfully that made any difference. Most of it is not too encouraging. I hear that some of you have kids who do not believe they have a problem. This seems to be common, maybe it's the disorder that makes them think their reality is the one that's right. We get caught up in this conversation about realities a lot. Whenever I try to defend us, d30 takes offense that I'm saying she is wrong, wrong wrong. All I'm saying is that her perception of our actions/motives/words is not how we meant them. But she rejects that.

Do any of you struggle with a constant state of anxiety about what the next day or moment will bring? I feel my whole life has been a series of one crisis/event after another with no end and that it would fill up a book already. How do you handle your anxiety about what's around the next corner? Recently, besides losing my appetite, I am having a lot of heart palpitations which seem to be related to my degree of anxiety. I'm planning to go have the Dr check me out, although everything seemed fine with my health a year ago.

Again, thank you for the warm welcome! 

[livelove]

Follow up-

qcarol-we do not have any legal custody of our gd9. We have been trying on our own to be there to lend support to BPDDD30 from the time gd was born. She is with us on average 50% of the time, I think. I have tried to be extremely careful to not say anything to gd that might get repeated to her mom that would alienate DD any more than she already is, because I am fearful that she will take gd away from us. I think gd needs the stability of our support. She seems to like being here and does respond to my husband well. I feel she needs this influence in her life. So I try not to address her mom's 'problems' with her at this point, because I'm still hoping dd can handle life with her daughter. GD must know there are problems, or she wouldn't be so adamant to the point of being out of control angry that she doesn't want to be with her mom. I do want dd to have every chance to succeed that she can have. I feel we teeter on the edge of the cliff all the time with whether DD's going to make it or not. I don't want to be responsible for tipping us all over the edge! The topic has come up with DD of whether we should have some type of custody of GD since she won't stay with her mom and so far nothing has helped to convince her to go back with her mom. When we have insisted she ride with her mom or anything at all, she acts out so terribly that we are all reeling. DD and I have taken her to crisis intervention 3 times because she is so angry and can't even be transported safely. So she stays with us for the indefinite future. She has a short fuse right now, even with us GP's.

[whiletheseasonspass]

livelove,

Thank you for your kind words to me        while you are going through you own non-ending crises.

I read your posts and agree that it sounds very difficult.  It all is affecting you greatly if you have lost so much weight.  It sounds like your gd would like to stay with you and freaks out when she might have to go and live with her mother.  I wonder if there are things besides the inappropriate observation gd made of her mother- that are going on or that went on- that makes your gd so upset to imagine going to be with her mother. 

What I recognize from your story is so similar to mine and it is clear that your BPD dd does what our dd  does which is using manipulation and using emotional blackmail to get what she thinks she needs or wants or doesn't want and/or to get you to feel horrible about yourselves when you have done so much for her. 

Your gd must be a very very sensitive child and thus is like a sponge internalizing the chaos.   

I feel for you livelove- and for your gd    as your dd is using your gd as a pawn and that is another way she can manipulate you and use emotional blackmail.  My dh and I have had to get therapy together to learn about how to not be used but it is not easy at all to pull off.  The progress we have made esp. my dh who had his head in the sand is that we can recognize it when it is happening. AND when our dd is being "loving" we wonder what THAT is leading up to... .and it feels terrible to not be able to just embrace the "love"... .although sometimes we do- just to have the "feelings" between us... .even if we are suspicious.  I know that sounds horrible but we have been though so much... .YET we feel for our dd so much and we know she suffers and has abandonment issues - and it is not just about us... .we can't bear to have her suffer- yet she brings so much strife to her life because of her personality disorder which we KNOW is not her fault.  It is all so circular sometimes... .and extremely painful and extremely heartbreaking. 

It is so hard to live this way for sure and she is our only child- and meanwhile you asked if anyone struggles with day to day uncertainty and anxiety... .yes.  I can speak for myself- yes.  Big time.  You are not alone in this.  Sometimes it feels like an ongoing nightmare that keeps on worsening and I think I should be "used" to expecting the always increasing worse-ness of it all- but that is not something that anyone could get used to... .not a mother - that is for sure.  Nor a grandmother who feels responsible for her gd either... .

Take care, livelove.

wtsp

[justwantedafamily]

dear livelove,  you asked if others feel constant anxiety and what to do about that.  I can definitely say I do feel that and wish there was a way to turn that off in my head.  My BPDd30 went NC with me for several weeks-she still allowed us to have the 3 grandchildren for overnight visits, but I wasn't allowed to come to their home. We had to arrange a meeting place in a parking lot near their home.  Just writing this down-it's insane, really.  She finds herself right now in a position where she has no friends, so she started emailing and texting me again.  Never said a word about the weeks before; just started her long litany of how horrible her life is.  I have no doubt in my mind that it is, indeed, horrible and it turns my stomach to hear about it, knowing there's nothing I can do to help her-she has to do that herself.

Anyway, every time I hear the "ping" of my cellphone, my stomach tightens up.  Or when the phone rings, and caller ID shows it's their house, I know it's never going to be anything good-it's going to be a crisis situation.  My health has suffered thru the years because of this, too.  I do not have any of the risk factors for high blood pressure, I'm not overweight, I don't drink, never smoked, etc, yet without medication, my blood pressure is off the charts.  I cannot sleep at night.  I dread waking up at 4 AM when you're left alone in the dark with your thoughts and fears. 

What I've done to try to help myself handle the stress (and sometimes it does help, sometimes not)  I do relaxation yoga about 20 minutes in the pm, I try to get outside and run or walk, and that really helps to clear my mind.  If the weather's bad, I have a treadmill I use at home.  Trying to keep myself physically strong makes me feel like like I have a little more control over my life. I keep a gratitude journal which reminds me I do still have some wonderful things going on in my life, not just the bad, and I try not to talk about my fears with my husband every time I have them.  I try to limit how much I talk with him about that so that our whole relationship isn't based solely on the bad stuff.

I would love to hear what others do to help with the stress that BPD causes in their lives.  I've learned so much from this website!

[justwantedafamily]

Oh, and this is just a small practical thing that's helped me:  if I find myself obsessing about it, where I cannot turn my mind to something else, I have a notebook where I've written down chores that would take only 15-30 minutes to do, like "clean and organize the medicine cabinet" or "clean out the desk drawer" or "weed the front flowerbed"- easy things where you don't have to make decisions but it keeps you busy.  It just helps me to turn my mind in a different direction.

[livelove]

jwaf-your description sounds oh so familiar. I too dread the sound of my home and cell phones. I finally got caller ID on home phone so at least some of the time when I hear the phone ring I will know it's not her and I can relax before I answer. That sounds sick when I say it!  :'(   Sometimes I wonder what people would think if they only knew how my every waking moment is consumed by thoughts of anticipating what might happen and the best way to handle it, rehearsing over and over in my head how I can respond so it will not set her off and I will pay for any wrong answer by having to listen to her for another hour. I think it is interesting how similar our BPD DD's behaviors are.  I get a lot of that 'I have no friends' too, bemoaning every thing bad in her life, and blaming me and my husband. Maybe I should say that during some of the last 10 years things have been quite dark, DD being suicidal and barely able to get out of bed. This was the period of time she visited counselors and was diagnosed as having anxiety and depression, but no one figured out what it really was. She tried a number of different anti-depressants, all of which had side effects she could not tolerate, so she decided she would just have to pull herself out of it by sheer force of will and has learned to help herself in some ways, such as yoga, eastern meditation, exercise, getting facials... .this has all helped her to self-soothe and manage her own emotional dysregulation better. I am glad that she can function at least, even if it is by disengaging from  people and things emotionally. She says if GD chooses not to be with her she's going to just go on with her own life. She often says she's done with this.

wtsp-I don't really think there are any major things going on with DD30 that are harming GD seriously. She doesn't like the yelling or bad language she hears, (and has done some repeating of that herself when she is acting out towards her mom-painful to my ears to hear my sweet GD9 yelling those things at her own mom). She thinks the people her mom is around are not the greatest people, and I also think part of it is that she feels insecure about how her mom looks at others in the family. GD loves my other kids, her aunts, and her mom is estranged from them, and doesn't want GD around them. This has not been hidden from GD. Her mom says she doesn't have anything to hide, and GD should know that her  mom thinks her sisters are bad people to be around. (They aren't, and GD knows this). Doesn't help DD in her relationship with GD. Can't she see that? There are a few other things GD thinks which make her case against her mom. She is mistaken with some of the things, but will not believe any of us, she has decided for herself that her mom is bad and that seems to be that. Sigh. Anyway I appreciate all you said! This is all so frustrating, crazy-making, and like you said, circular, painful and heartbreaking. Stressful on a marriage, too, although like dh says we've made it 30 years now, we can continue to make it. Sometimes I feel I just don't care what happens anymore. I came to that a few years ago, I had to say whatever happens will happen. I can't do anything about it, it's out of my control, even if she takes her own life. I can relate to wanting control over something when there is so much not in control.

jwaf-I'm sorry about your bp issues. But it's good that you are proactive with the exercise and doing whatever you can to keep yourself healthy. I try to do the same with my dh, to try to not let this dominate every conversation, but right now that's hard. DD gets bad when she feels dh is being distant, because to her that means he is disapproving. Even he has to walk a tightrope, and he is not wired to do that. As a man he gets disgusted with it.

Well I'd better get to bed, and see if I can get some always much needed sleep. Thank you all for being here! I don't feel so alone.

[Grammy57]

Reading these posts is helping my soul a bit.  Though making me sad as well.  To know that others are experiencing what I have these 26 years of my DD life makes feel connected, but sad that so many of us deal with it.  I have not considered going no contact, mainly because of the two precious children in that home.  they live in same town as we do, and often drop by.  But close proximity also breeds manipulation.  When we get a phone call or text that "I'm losing it, please take kids" - when in reality all she wants to do is go out.  But my concern for those children takes over.  Now with walking through the second divorce with her, and footing the bill, we are drained in money, husband at age 70 continues to work because we need the income, and he refuses to believe that she won't change.  I'm worn out, I'm only 57 but feel 90- I fear the phone ringing, because it never comes with a "Hi Mom, how are you?" It is always a crisis and I'm the first one she goes to.  I'm losing me in all of this.

[Hope4]

I know this conversation is old but I found it useful as someone with an adult DD.  I understand the pain expressed in many of these posts. My pwBPD was an angry baby/toddler/child who didn't sleep much and who constantly wanted my full attention. (Now I understand why!) I don't know what I could have done differently if I had known about her diagnosis other than been more understanding.

As my DD became an adult I stopped talking about her to others to protect her. I hope that one day she will settle down into a more comfortable life but I also know that that may never happen.  I expect to get a phone call one day that something terrible has happened to her but I try to put it out of my mind.

I mostly share with family members... .who understand what I am talking about... .Thank goodness for them.

In the meantime I am working on being supportive and learning about values and boundaries.

[bluek9]

Hi everyone,

   Great thread. I'm so glad I read it. Well here goes. I'm 60 and my BPDD is 35, my grandson is 6, I'm raising him. We all live together. What a mix we are, both of them D, GSN are on the Autism spectrum, both high functioning but not without challenges to say the least. As I scanned and read through this thread I saw someone say they didn't talk about family at work. And someone else talked about being at the bus.
    Well I stand there every morning and night to get my JJ on and off the bus. I do talk about my life, whenever it comes up. Not that I go out of way to blab but, if I'm asked I share. I make no bones about how challenging my life is. I tell people freely the effects of living with mental health issues. Usually I get "oh I'm sorry, or I feel bad for you, or how do you do it"? I take my time and tell those who will listen it's mental illness not the plague. It's not a terminal disease, it's something everyone should know about. One of the reasons I feel comfortable talking about it is that for so long I was isolated by it. I mean really how do you broach the subject of your BPDD behaviors?
    While I am raising my JJ it's because his mother could finally come to a place in her therapy to realize that she couldn't take care of him. He has just as many needs as she does, DR's, school. All that takes life management. I told her how proud I was of her for being able to ask for help from me. While I parent him I am always working on finding a way in which my daughter can add some input. Teacher conferences are too much for her, so I share the basics of what happened when I get home. There are times that are rough, she won't spend time with him, play with him. So I just take him places, we do things together. I know he misses his mom in this but, I tell him to share all with her when we get home.
     I often read of parents who go no contact with their children. That must be so hard, I can't imagine. My daughter would never make it on her own, she has tried. Of course it ended in disaster. While I have one child who is on his own with his own family, I also have my daughter who will require a life long commitment. I'm sure like everybody I have my good days and my bad. Mostly I'm just thankful that I have the stamina to keep up with both of them.

[FaithfulHope]

Dear all... .I just can relate to so many of these comments.  I have been trying to 'figure out' my DD26 since she was 8 years old.  I knew something just wasn't right.   I knew she was just very different than other kids... .but I didn't know what it was.   She was diagnosed with BPD at 18 but her whole life has been one crisis after another and endless drama... .and our family has been trying to help her and encourage her to grow and mature.  Basically we want her to be a good,honest, and kind human being - and not what she is today... .a liar, a thief, and a manipulator.   I am so thankful to all of you who get it... .because unless you live this life you just cannot understand all we go through day to day.   It is very hard to love someone so much who seems incapable of loving you back.