Do pwBPD cheat during the honeymoon/idealization stage?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Just wondering if people with BPD will ever cheat on their SO during the infatuation phase of the relationship... .Or does the cheating only come later?  .

[poprocks]

Just wondering if people with BPD will ever cheat on their SO during the infatuation phase of the relationship... .Or does the cheating only come later?  .

[just_think]

When they cheat, they cheat at any opportunity. 

If you think she was cheating, it is quite likely she was.

Remember that you were likely the result of a triangulation (read definition). So she was already cheating on you because she was never out of a relationship/ fling. 

[LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel]

With mine we were about 3/4 months in when he met another woman.

I had my own womans instinct screaming that something had changed   He began to withdraw, secretive... .things had changed.

I confronted him on this, at the time he could have came clean we were "seeing each other" but more or less exclusive. He didn't come clean until i confronted him and said i saw tabs open on his computer for resturants in the area she lived.

She left the country and stupidly i believed what he said about her " she wasn't coming back etc" we carried on ( stupidly)... prior to this i had found a printed menu of a Japanese Resturant in his room... i knew again in my gut he had taken here there   i ignored it... .

Fast forward to valentines day 2010 hes taking me out as a "surprise"... as we are laughing and chatting on the bus he pulls out a printed menu for a Carribean Resturant   without saying a word, my suspicions were confirmed... he HAD been entertaining this lady.

Me confronting him and emailing her telling her everything started the devaluation phase.

So yes they can cheat, whereever the window of opportunity lies, or if they simply find someone they deem to be "better" will start the phase of devaluation - discard.

Sucks! 

[poprocks]

Thanks Just, I wasn't sure because the infatuation is SO deep.  I wasn't asking for me but about a uBPD friend.  His girlfriend asked one of our mutual friends if she thought he would cheat.  I told her I thought the question should be not IF but WHEN.  He always cheats eventually.

Light, reading your story it's amazing to me how often our gut identifies   s that we ignore.  Kudos to you for being an investigator.  It does suck to have to do that.  I feel sorry for SOs of pwBPD I see it's only a matter of time before things come crashing down.

[eeyore]

some people are just cheaters.  Add BPD to it and its even worse.  My boundary is I don't get involved with cheaters.  It's one thing I can say for certain is that my BF has not "cheated" on me.  If he did it would be my cue to exit stage left immediately. 

[Worndowndad]

I think at least in my case, she was too infatuated during the honeymoon stage to cheat. It started after she devalued me. In my case I believe it was a golfing trip. She thought I was out cheating on her so she thought she better leave me first.

[once removed]

i agree with worndowndad.

sure, they'll cheat at any opportunity, but if the honey moon/idealization phase is still ongoing, they're usually (from my experience) way too infatuated to cheat. there's often (not always) a marked change like light described when/if they do.

[harlemgurl]

The truth is... .

This question could never be fully answered with certainty. It's a case by case scenario that fully depends on what your gut is telling you. Not all people with BPD cheat and even when they do we ALL know that cheating means something entirely different for them. So with this question its kinda like back to square one; you'll only know if the proof is looking you right between the eyes. Everything else is speculation.

Filling the gaps, blanks and holes of these fragmented relationships can really be maddening. As for cheating what hurts is their INABILITY to connect with the level of hurt and betrayal the act inflicts.  :'( :'(  I just keep reminding myself that the cheating for them is ENTIRELY superficial to get their reptilian needs meet. If they valued themselves an ounce they wouldn't hop in the sack so easily.

I don't know if my ex cheated in the honeymoon phase but there was a lot of push and pull from the start... .just a lot of mini-brush fires to test my level of loyalty and commitment. But once we became "smitten" we were inseparable. I became his mommy/lover/provider/nanny and he was in HEAVEN. Of course the intensity of the intimacy drove him bat ___ crazy and the rest is history... .

HG.

[LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel]

Filling the gaps, blanks and holes of these fragmented relationships can really be maddening. As for cheating what hurts is their INABILITY to connect with the level of hurt and betrayal the act inflicts.    :'( :'(  I just keep reminding myself that the cheating for them is ENTIRELY superficial to get their reptilian needs meet. If they valued themselves an ounce they wouldn't hop in the sack so easily.

Oh man, this paragraph i 100% agree with. He never got what i felt about this as a betrayal or why i felt as hurt as i did.

According to him it was for HIM to figure out who he wanted?... .He projected all the blame onto me.

"If you didn't do what you did" - Meaning if i hadn't sent the email to her explaining who i was and what was going on, he could have "loved me" etc

WTF... .Friends all told me this was bulls***, that him blaming me for what HE DID made no logic... deep down i knew this too BUT... he projected way too strong. I ended up owning everything, i even apologised to him for sending the email via a letter and getting him a present   

Can you believe that... .the shame of it... in hindsight i cannot believe i was brainwashed to apologise for HIS cheating, HIS lies, HIS Infidelity... .purely madness in its truest scale.

They dont have the ability to see our hurt at their own doings... .just THEIR "pain".

He told me i caused him " a ___load of pain"... .and i believed it... .more fool me  :'(

[kampuniform]

They will triangulate, and keep ‘back-ups’ just in case, and this can occur at any sage of the game.  Remember that they see the world first and foremost as a hostile arena, and they do not trust anyone, and the most untrustworthy entity on the planet is their partner.

It’s an inverse relationship: the more you love and bond to them, the more they detach and hate you. So as the relationship progresses, they can rationalize infidelity.

Towards the end of my relationship, all the signs were definitely there.  Naturally, I couldn’t prove anything, but when something stinks, there’s no way to effective mask the odour completely.

My gut instinct was screaming at me like a banshee towards the end.

“Nevertheless, they will often engage in triangular marital or quasi-marital relationships which provide intimacy while maintaining interpersonal distance. These individuals like to foster secret liaisons as a "fall-back" position in case the key relationship does not work out (Benjamin, 1983, pp. 307-308).”

[theridler]

Mine did, but insisted that her drink had been spiked/date rape etc.  At the time I bought it, but having witnessed dissociative episodes since then, I'm fairly sure I know what happened.   

[poprocks]

I do think they always keep backups minimally engaged at least just, in case something happens or their SO breaks up with THEM.  But the infatuation stage is so strong at least from what I have seen it's like they dont even acknowledge anybody else other than the person they are infatuated with.

[officer1618]

Short answer in my experience: YES

Longer version:  My xwBPD cheated on me after 14 years of marriage.  We married young and I was her 'first' out of the gate.  But when her illness started to mature and the symptoms got worse and worse... .so did her cheating.

The rest is just a big tangled mess of infidelity and blame.  She became a spectacle to all of those that knew her.  She was frantically trying to ride anyone looking for a soul to steal and it was pathetic.  Co-workers, friends, and married men alike were tested to see who would take her on.  Even when she did find an idiot loser to take her in... she didn't stop looking for a better option.  So... .even with her 'soulmate' on the hook... .she was still being creepy around other men when he wasn't around.  I heard stories that flipped my stomach about her (because we have kids together that had to watch it) being so bizzare around crowds (clingy, annoying, loud, stalking, inappropriate) looking for male attention that people quit asking her over and started to take notice of her oddity.  She was kind of like a vampire needing a feeding before sunrise.

[borderdude]

They will triangulate, and keep ‘back-ups’ just in case, and this can occur at any sage of the game.  Remember that they see the world first and foremost as a hostile arena, and they do not trust anyone, and the most untrustworthy entity on the planet is their partner.

It’s an inverse relationship: the more you love and bond to them, the more they detach and hate you. So as the relationship progresses, they can rationalize infidelity.

Towards the end of my relationship, all the signs were definitely there.  Naturally, I couldn’t prove anything, but when something stinks, there’s no way to effective mask the odour completely.

My gut instinct was screaming at me like a banshee towards the end.

“Nevertheless, they will often engage in triangular marital or quasi-marital relationships which provide intimacy while maintaining interpersonal distance. These individuals like to foster secret liaisons as a "fall-back" position in case the key relationship does not work out (Benjamin, 1983, pp. 307-308).”

Agree, you are their source of supply, and an object tool, for thir purpose. I got this confirmed when my ex , now in a new rs, still in the clinging honeymoon phase, was purposing me to be with her at her home one night, I just ignored her.

[tani]

When they cheat, they cheat at any opportunity. 

If you think she was cheating, it is quite likely she was.

Remember that you were likely the result of a triangulation (read definition). So she was already cheating on you because she was never out of a relationship/ fling. 

Do they care with whom they cheat? How that works? What if they are also sex addicts, doe it matter what the person lloks like for them to cheat with?

[kentavr3]

ExBPDw told me that she cheated on her first husband  2 days before wedding ceremony. I thought that I was special. No I wasn't special. Cheated on me too.

[Portent]

Well I know my soon to be divorced BPDw wants to have a sexual relationship with me while continuing to see her new BF because he sucks in bed. So yes during the idealization stage they will cheat especially if you cannot satisfy them sexually.

In the case of my wife she is afraid to have a relationship with anyone who is actually a good lover like I was again. It caused her to lose control so she prefers to be in a relationship that is easier to control. But that means she needs sexual satisfaction as well. She is currently relying heavily on her toys.

[Portent]

Agree, you are their source of supply, and an object tool, for thir purpose. I got this confirmed when my ex , now in a new rs, still in the clinging honeymoon phase, was purposing me to be with her at her home one night, I just ignored her.

Yep exact same thing happened to me. She wants to keep her current SO while having a physical relationship with me.

[seeperplexed]

Absolutely they do. They being people in general. It is totally circumstantial, and I think ultimately has more to do with the individual person and their boundaries/tendencies and less to do with BPD. In my case, my exBPD girlfriend cheated right away with her most recent ex. I didn't know until the very end of the relationship 15 months later, after there were then 2 more known people she cheated on me with. I don't think it has to fall into any particular phase of the relationship, though logically it would make more sense that infidelity would happen more frequently during devaluation than the initial infatuation.

[vortex of confusion]

Does cheating with himself count?

The first morning in our apartment together after our wedding, I woke up to him looking at porn and taking care of himself. I was told that it was because I was sleeping and he didn't want to wake me up. I know it isn't technically cheating because it was just him, his hand, and some picture. To me, it felt like cheating and betrayal because it was only our second or third day of being married and he would rather be with himself and porn. His impulsiveness made it impossible for him to resist temptation and delay gratification.

[Keef]

My ex did. Once last winter when she was upset with me she told me that she'd been seeing a guy during June/July, when we first started dating. I don't know if they met up more than once, but I do know they slept with eachother and that "he had really nice hands"   

According to the ex she slept with him because she thought I was taking it too slow. Hell no! I was taking it easy, not wanting to rush into the r/s since the girl before her was... .BPD. So, she justified her own behaviour by blaming me for it!

[JohnLove]

Does anyone not think its completely out there how they can compartmentalise their signifcant relationships to such a degree? 

Having a physical relationship with the ex while developing a relationship with the new replacement/partner/conquest. 

One foot in both camps? 

Kinda seems like they want their cake and eat it... .

[JohnLove]

... .and YES, they do.

Unbelievable.

[kentavr3]

From many books, working with therapist, forums I got very clear understanding that BPD/NPD cheat on their partners in order to devaluate them . BPD/NPD can't create both side codependant relationship and needed to cheat. AS Otto Kenberg said in his book, NPD/BPD have no sexual satisfaction as
 Having relationship just with one partner. They are sexually hungry and can be with any partner just to have a sexual contact. Their feelings are not developed mature. I remember how exBPDw blamed me that I can sleep with any woman. I didn't know that time, that she projected on me her condition that she slept with any men without love, physical or emotional attachment.

[seeperplexed]

Does anyone not think its completely out there how they can compartmentalise their signifcant relationships to such a degree? 

Having a physical relationship with the ex while developing a relationship with the new replacement/partner/conquest. 

This has been one of the hardest elements for me to understand. As soon as we started dating, she had some physical thing with her ex. Within a month. I didn't know until the very end, and then I became that ex in the scheme of her new relationship. Bleh.

[Keef]

I remember how exBPDw blamed me that I can sleep with any woman. I didn't know that time, that she projected on me her condition that she slept with any men without love, physical or emotional attachment.

I hear you, kentavr3. All the times my uBPDx rambled on about wanting an open relationship, and the things she said about sex... .that she doesn't have to be emotionally involved with people in order to have sex with them. If I'd only been more aware of the borderline's mechanisms! Projection! I didn't know back then. She came to suspect it herself after a while. Still undiagnosed... .