SELF ASSESSMENT |Are you holding on to fantasies about someone who has hurt you?

[Suzn]

The best revenge is to have a better life disspite the one that hurt me...

  That use to be one of my mantras. Yea I had the superiority thing going on. Problem was I didn't really know how to live a better life. I had thought that if I held a good job, paid my bills and had overall stability I was living a better life. I had always dated alcoholics or, looking back now, people with PDs, so living what I thought was a better life wasn't all that hard. My fantasies included meeting someone stable and having this better life just for spite. I had no real foundation to make this happen. I was codependent me.

  Every new relationship ended up with me doing way more than i should and then becoming resentful. My expectations were too high. I behave perfectly, why can't you? I took everything personally and that made for difficult situations in relationships. Any relationship, not just the romantic ones.

  Those fantasies went away when I seriously turned the focus to my own self awareness. Therapy, coming here reading and posting, reading books on my issues (codependence/perfectionism/negative self talk), positive affirmations and truely practicing all my new skills. I want to be a better person for me. I've let go of living better out of anger to live a more realistic, mindful, peaceful life.

[jessicapuppy]

It was interesting to read this, as I'm having a weak night tonight.  I'm not well (flu) and feeling low, plus Friday night was always his night to come down and stay for the weekend.

Most of the time I'm pretty acceptant of things, but it's early days, and I do have days like today when I wish it was all a mistake, and that somehow there's another explanation or something that can be fixed, and I can have the man I love back.  I still feel quite confused at times about where it went wrong and when his illness started, and I still struggle to get my head around how he's not missing all the things that I do.  I understand that's part of the condition, but it's hard to imagine feeling like that.

My ex seemed a lot less affected by his conditions that some people on here.  Clearly it was still enough to ruin a relationship, though.

[GreenMango]

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

Considering the amount of emotional and verbal abuse I hold onto the fantasy this person will acknowledge they did something wrong. Fantasy #1 I used to want an apology, an explanation for the behavior, and an amends.  Then after awhile I would have taken the apology and explanation.  Now I don't even want any of those things.  I think it was enough for me to confront this person on their behavior and abuse... .it was the last bit of me standing up for myself.

Fantasy #2 My fantasy that I could have the lessons of the relationship without having ever met this person and going through that pain.  I'm not perfect, but the relationship was brutal.  Fantasy #3 My other fantasy he would move far away and I would never run the risk of seeing him again.



2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

Fantasy #1 - 0 I know this ain't gonna happen.

Fantasy #2 - 1 I know it's impossible because I don't have a time machine.

Fantasy #3 - 4 I think about this a lot... .I would feel very free and safe.

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

Not too bad.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

I have taken a long trip to make up for not getting Fantasy #3.  I've haven't been home in awhile and eventually I'll have to go back.  Impacts positive = space to think.  Impacts negative = avoiding the inevitable.

[/size]

[hijodeganas]

I suppose I still hold on to the fantasy that she can, and will, deal with her issues and start to lead an emotionally healthier life. The results of this fantasy (which are more fantastical) are that she looks back on the r/s and appreciates what I did and/or we can actually get along.

[cc2]

My fantasies are mostly on my being happy with someone else, at a party. She starts talking as if nothing happened, while I can say, do I know you? You seem to look like someone I know, but that was a someone nice... .I think... .I'll get a drink now. Preferably turning around and asking someone who trully loves me, what she wants, given her a kiss and getting out of the place.

Or version two... .We start a minor discussion ending with me giving a business card (she wants to be better than I am) simply stating my name with below it "Happy"... .

She will never ever be the one I want. She will not persue the carreer I want to see my girl doing, nor the have the kindness and sweetness of the gentle lover I want. She was a mistake. I trully hope someday, someone will take her down and her issues she is causing will be the cause of it.  Even if it is only that I can say, no xperience with that sh#t. Sorry... .

[T2Logan]

I used to fanticize/hope/wish that she would "wake up" one day and be the person I met and fell in love with... .that the other raging person just disappeared and never came back. I use to wish she would fully realize the extent she has hurt me, apologize, make REAL amends, and actually make changes that last. A FEW times I have thought "I wish I could show her just once exactly what she does to me" but I knew I could never do that because I don't treat people the way she did me and I could not even force myself to do so. I felt bad just having that brief thought!

[sea5045]

I don't ruminate much anymore, but I do try and talk about her as if she didn't do some of the inappropriate things in the end, I don't like thinking someone I invested in is like that. My friend always keeps me in line saying " It sounds like you're trying to blame the other guy, and giving your ex a hall pass. She's just as culpable for involvement in what happened".  So my mind still doesn't feel comfortable saying she was bad for me, and to me. Still trying to dress it up, must be a survival mechanism... .weird.

[bpdlover]

Six months or more ago, I would have ticked a couple of those boxes. I have let them go. I wish both my ex and the children the best. The reality is, I was filled with a flawed purpose of trying to save her and help her, which put a distance between me and my own reality.

[Forestaken]

"Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and rejects him or her."

rather

"Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and realizes what you went through" suits me better.

[diotima]

Well, I used to have a few of these fantasies and they have gradually disappeared. I used to hope that he would see the light. I just don't any more. If I think of him it is more that I hope those he hooks up with see it sooner than I did and exit.

Diotima

[LoveNotWar]

I don't want to go back to the life I had with my BPDh. With 21 days no contact I am just now realizing how the stress, criticism and rage took it's toll. Not to mention the physical abuse.

But... .I do hold on to this fantasy that he will see the error of his ways, admit he was irrational and mean, apologize and ask to make amends.

I get that this is a fantasy so the impact of this fantasy on my life is minimal. I'm certainly not holding my breath while I wait for this to happen. On a scale of 1-5 I'd rate this a 1. It's just a dream really.

[athamandia]

it's funny, but after reading the fantasies list, i realized that none of them really apply in full to me. when i think about revenge, it makes me sad. i don't want him to hurt anymore. i guess i don't want him satisfied with his new love either, but i guess i just want status quo for him. maybe a slight fantasy would be for his new love to bring these points to his attention one day so that i'm somehow validated. then again, maybe his ex-wife of 16 years and i and this new woman will cumulatively help him realize his wrongdoing. when i think about him admitting to his ways and making amends, i realize i had that fantasy while with him and in reality he could never admit to them. why fantasize about them now when i know it would never be a reality. i have to give him to God and let Him deal with him. yesterday was a tough day for me, but i know he is truly out of my hands. my wish is to move on and live the rest of my life in truth.

[laelle]

I chose I use to have fantasies like all of those, but I had to let them go.

He can never be what I need, but it doesnt mean he is at fault for everything.  I played my own role.

If I believe it was all him, then I am using the same black and white thinking that he used.

[mango_flower]

I ticked "Other" as well as three more.

My "other" is a couple of things:

a) this is all a horrible dream and I'll wake up and she'll be next to me, just like the good old days, and none of this really happened.  She was the sweet girl I used to call mine.

b) She'll wake up one morning, realise she's had a complete nervous breakdown and wonder where I am, and who the new girl in bed next to her is.  Then she'll think "Oh God, what have I done?" and call me up, back to her sweet, loving self, and we will carry on and forget this weird blip ever happened.

*sigh*

[VeryFree]

I went for two choices: she admits and she regrets. Those two because they mean she has grown and also has a future. That can not be a future with me, because... .   well that's not so difficult to understand.

I don't want to see her hurt of been done wrong in any way. I don't believe in revenge. It only brings the revengetaker down.

a) this is all a horrible dream and I'll wake up and she'll be next to me, just like the good old days, and none of this really happened.  She was the sweet girl I used to call mine.

b) She'll wake up one morning, realise she's had a complete nervous breakdown and wonder where I am, and who the new girl in bed next to her is.  Then she'll think "Oh God, what have I done?" and call me up, back to her sweet, loving self, and we will carry on and forget this weird blip ever happened.

After reading mango_flowers post I would go for that two options too, allthough I would raise my eyebrows a tiny bit if she woke up with a girl next to her.

[Hurt llama]

I used to have revenge fantasies but they ended a long time ago.

The fantasy that still lingers is the fantasy that she would 'get it' and in truth, I do see she's done her best. That she has suffered more than I ever realized. That the fantasy of her loving and being satisfied with another man, is obviously false and it's never happened and to her credit she's never even bothered lying about it.

I'm accepting that she's never really been one to lie, and each time she's hurt me, she's hurt herself much worse.

That she never benefited from hurting me and that as ill as it makes me to say it... .   I put her on a pedestal and still do. I see her as this powerful, sexy secure woman when in fact, clearly she's tortured, afraid of sleeping around and walks around with guilt and shame that is so powerful, she can't dare to even look at it.

There is no 'revenge' but in all honesty, even with all the above being stated... .   I'm still vulnerable to believing her teflon exteriour and the idea of her being with someone else and doing what she does best... . making that man feel like the king... .   truly makes me want to projectile vomit.

(I still have a bit of healing to do.  )

[mtmc01]

I still have the faintest fantasy that she will "wake up" as well. I wish that she'd realize that she has treated me like garbage throughout the entire breakup process since she decided to walk out and paint me black for good. I wish she'd remember what she put me through with her alcoholism and emotional lability and that some of my bad moments were cultivated by her crazy making behavior. I wish she'd realize she should talk to me like a human being and not some wanted criminal. I wish that the new guy she wasted no time in idealizing would dump her immediately so she'd see just how much I put up with over the course of a year. I wish she was capable of truly, maturely loving me.

[bpdlover]

They were unable to truly love us from the beginning. We just didn't seem to notice it. Then again, I noticed her open the front door and walk away without greeting me. I noticed a lack of common manners when it came to meal times or visits. I noticed she spoke about other partners when we were intimate. I noticed she could not trust me and broke up, only to entertain another guy. I noticed she could not give me a straight answer. I noticed her sit in silence and look away instead of communicate. These things once at the surface, were front and centre but I stayed and copped the ending of her choice. She just got married and it has started the ruminating again. I have dealt with a lot but still lapse into believing that she is healthy and her revenge is sweet. Why do I still buy into her script?

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

I ticked 'Other' because I would just really love him to get major (genuine, sincere, co-operated with) therapy and realise that it is not inevitable that he hurts people - he knows at some level that something is wrong, but not what it is. And he seems to feel he is simply doomed, destined, always to hurt those he cares for.

And he does.

So I would like him to genuinely accept he needs help, and to work honestly with a therapist specialising in Cluster B disorders, take meds compliantly, and over a period of years, maybe lifelong, work to become a healthy-minded individual who can have a loving, fulfilling relationship, one in which he is not constantly guilty, ashamed, lashing out, angry, jealous, controlling, evaise, lying, cheating and all the other things.

It's not likely, I know... .but that is my fantasy dream for what I would like to happen for my ex.

Oh, and I'd also like him never to contact my replacement again, because it's still recent and I mind like hell that I've been replaced, until I go through my rational logical step-by-step process to get it into my mind that she means no more to him than I did. But, y'know, waking at 3am crying, it's still "I mind like hell, he loves her more, she's better than me, I'm such a failure". But then I go through the logic, remind myself that the only person who thinks I'm so vulnerable and fragile and not coping is HIM, and that I am strong and beautiful and intelligent - by that stage, I'm ok with the New Victim's presence in his life because I know she means no more to him than I did and he'll move on soon enough from her to the Next Victim after her... .poor woman... .

I'd love him to get better, get healthy.

But why would he? He has an endless supply of victims ready to believe he's their soulmate because they don't know about mirroring; and an endless supply of Facebook-friends who think he's the wittiest, smartest, coolest man on the planet.

[clairedair]

I lived in fantasy world for years hoping he would not just have insight about his behaviour (which he actually did have quite often) but would use that insight to change and stay in a healthier relationship with me.  Of course, I was conveniently ignoring the fact that I was also having insights about his behaviour (and my reactions) and instead of using that insight to change a pattern of repeatedly returning to a dysfunctional relationship, I stuck to the pattern! 

Occasionally, I had 'revenge' fantasies though I used them to make me laugh diabolically   - I wouldn't wish him to be hurt in real life.  These were definitely fantasies whereas the ones above were more 'hopes.  I'd say I've pretty much moved on from fantasies though it's been hard to let go of the hope.

I used to dream about scenarios where he would be full of remorse and tell me what I wanted to hear and we'd 'live healthily ever after'.  I still dream a lot about this but now in the dream I am thinking "I don't believe anything will change" and so I don't re-engage.  I hate dreaming about him (am going through a phase of dreaming about him every night a year on from our last break-up) but at least the dreams are more of a reflection of reality than fantasy.  Progress 

[Iwalk-Heruns]

I answered yes to 90 % of questions. For me 3 months out they are just passing thoughts now. However, I do not actively try to think about them they all of a sudden come to my consciousness.   out of nowhere. I think it is natural and part of the healing process not hindering it. I believe there is an innate need for justice in all of us when we are severely wronged. To deny ourselves those thoughts is just repression. Acting on them or going on for prolonged periods of time is not healthy but are natural in the beginning. They were at a 5 in the beginning and are slowly subsiding and now are at a 1 as a passing thought.

[maxen]

The other person admits his/her errors and the way he/she has hurt you and makes amends.

this one is very strong. i was raised by a paranoiac parent, who had to be right about everything and if there was nothing wrong would make things up and then assert, in quite abusive tones, that she was right about her opinions about these fantasies. evidence would only make her backpedal, and her trump card was to say that there must be something wrong with me if i was upset. this from the time of my earliest memories. i still cannot, to this day, understand that a person may not be able to say "i see what i did and i'm sorry."

Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and rejects him or her.

my w was only able to bolt because she received counsel and opportunity to do so and the only way that could have happened is if she lied about the texture of our marriage. truth for her, a BPD, but lying by any objective standard of measure. i want to the point of craving for the others she has involved in this to know the score. but they won't.

[Gidget]

That my daughter will have a revelation of all the was she has hurt me see her distortions admit her lies and make amends. I am seeing more clearly now they are all very real to her and have began to expect them less

[SaltyDawg]

  Other: please specify in your comment.

What if... these are NOT fantasies, even though they were initially part of my fantasy thinking?

INSTRUCTIONS: Take the poll and comment below, addressing these questions and adding any other comments:

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

  The other person admits his/her errors and the way he/she has hurt you and makes amends.
  The person will change and regret what he or she did or said.

1 & 2.  The person admitting their errors was a passing thought for me, as I had figured out that they were oblivious to doing the wrongs that they did, and I would not get an apology from my pwBPD on this.  However, the person will change and regret what they did was a big fantasy of mine, as I know in my heart of hearts that her heart was in the right place, and if she was self-aware, she would make that change happen.

3.  Admitting her wrongs, really didn't affect me too much, other than being disappointed she could not see the damage she was doing; however, my pwBPD not being able to see the error of her ways, not being self-aware, really hurt me as she was blind to the damage she was doing.

4.  I thought long and hard about how to make my pwBPD become self-aware of her behaviors - here is how I did it: 

She was in couple's therapy with me, and she had her own individual therapy, as did I. 

Initially I communicated with her individual therapist my concerns, and our couple's therapist too after I  learned about it for the past few months after my own therapist pretty much blurted out what I described was consistent with BPD in June of 2022.  At that time, both the couple's therapist and her individual therapist indicated they did not think she had BPD - this was September 2022.  I then proceeded to highlight each individual symptom, one per session in front of our couple's therapist.  At first, the couple's therapist ignored me... until she had personally witnessed a full textbook narcissistic abuse episode spanning two sessions a year ago in March of 2023 that is pretty much unique to Cluster-B PDs, and then the couple's therapist took copious notes each and every time my pwBPD exhibited a different symptom while 'in session'.  I am assuming since the couple's therapist and her individual therapist are in the same practice, they shared notes... as this is when progress really started - previously it was only anger management skills for her, which also was successful too.

About two months later, in May of 2023, my wife approached me and wanted to apologize for everything she had done wrong, as she had a very positive experience apologizing for things she had done in the previous two weeks - from the suddenness of this new found skill, I am assuming she acquired it from therapy.  Using an analogy, she had just learned how to climb a small mound, but wanted to tackle climbing Mount Everest.  After contemplating this overnight, I jumped at the opportunity of her making amends, and I asked her to first make a list of the wrongs I had done to her, as I wanted to lead by example.

To make a long story short, I did validate her feelings; however, I did not validate her false narrative towards me.  Then it was her turn to reciprocate, and I made a list of seven categories of wrongs, five of which she had already addressed, but not apologized for.  She acknowledged the thousands of abuses she had done, and apologized for them. 

She is also more self-aware than ever before, and is making meaningful progress at change.  She has expressed regret, even though I do not think it is sincere enough, but it is there, and I must accept that level of sincerity.  Her recovery is a process, and while I find it too slow, it is there, and she is getting better.

I know for most this will forever remain a fantasy; however, for me it has now become a reality.

The only way this was accomplished was to learn how my wife thinks and leverage her comorbidity of OCPD traits into addressing her BPD, and introduce tools to help her understand and become self-aware of her behaviors.  While some of her explanations on her apology were really 'out there' in a very disordered kind of way - she made the attempt to apologize and is continuing to change her ways.

I am wondering if anyone else has experienced their fantasy thinking become a reality?

Take care.

SD

[SaltyDawg]

To make a long story short, I did validate her feelings; however, I did not validate her false narrative towards me.  Then it was her turn to reciprocate, and I made a list of seven categories of wrongs, five of which she had already addressed, but not apologized for.  She acknowledged the thousands of abuses she had done, and apologized for them.

Since there is no 'EDIT' button, I need to add that I also validated any real wrongs that I had done to her, like hiding money with the explanation of not making her aware of this money as it was earmarked for a divorce attorney retainer fee due to her ongoing and repeated threats of divorce.  She couldn't quite comprehend this, but accepted it.