Selfless acts of a BPD?

[captainkirkz]

Has anyone else had their BPD commit what you would call a selfless act.

My ex impressed me when she told me that she had been an egg donor for her friend for IVF treatment.

I thought that it was a very selfless act.

However, we were talking about the friend the day before we split and my ex called her a fruitloop. That was odd i thought! (A little black paint was being dabbed on maybe)

Anyone else experienced a selfless BPD act and if so... .do you think your BPDs motives were pure or had an ulterior motive?

[Weird Fishes]

It's hard to determine.  I don't believe my bf's BPD/NPD ex ever did a damn thing that was "selfless".  Sure, she'd be "generous" all the time, but you better give her your whole life in return.  Lots of strings, and lots of showboating.  Whenever she does something "kind" (or even thinks about doing something kind!) the entire world knows within 5 minutes. 

My ex who may have been BPD, I do think he was in many ways a kind person.  He was much less cartoonlike, though-teasing out his motivations is more difficult. 

[Cannon]

No.   Negative.  Nada.

[avoidatallcost]

Oh yes my BP ex gf did a lot of selfless things.  The problems is, none of these things were ever for me.

Here's an example of all the great selfless things she did for others:

1.  Volunteered at a women's shelter.

2.  Volunteered at the local mental hospital (or was a patient, who the hell really knows after all they lie so much but I saw a t shirt at her place suggesting she was either a patient or volunteer there).

3.  When I would take us out to dinner she would altruistically give away the food that I bought to homeless people.  When she bought food though, this "giveaway" never seemed to happen.

4.  Asked for my help in trying to have a lover committed to a mental hospital (yeah guys I know what you're thinking what the hell was I doing in this relationship with all these crazies believe me I'm asking myself that same question).

5.  Running in marathons for the poor, disadvantaged, cancer patients etc.

6.  On her birthday/valentine's day, she would ask her friends to make online donations instead of buying her gifts.

She was definitely altruistic at times, but of course this was never for me.  Well outside of the bedroom that is.

Here, on the other hand, is a list of all the wonderful things she did for me:

1.  Slept with another guy and her ex-bf during the early months and the end of our relationship.  Her excuse was that we were not in a committed relationship.  Yet when she found out that I had gone out with a girl, she physically attacked me.  Apparently, she was allowed to sleep with other guys but I was not even allowed to cuddle with another girl.  So in other words, when she couldn't get another guy to sleep with we were in a monogomous relationship.  When she got pissed at me and told me to leave her alone during our breakups, we were in an open relationship again.  I, of course, was supposed to read her mind and know exactly when these periods were happening.  I mean, God forbid I would cheat on her.

2.  She would text other guys regarding going out on dates right in front of me.  I know this because I would check her messages later and find the truth.

3.  She would tell me that I could have sex with other women as long as I wore a condom.

4.  She would tell me that I could see other women but not to tell her about who I was seeing.  When she found out I was seeing other women, she would physically attack me (already mentioned in #1) for not being truthful and not telling her about it.

5.  In the early months of our relationship, she asked me to spend Valentine's day with her.  When the day came I called her, and she matter of factly informed me that another guy was coming over instead.  Later, during one of our "monogomous" periods when I confronted her about his incident, she would tell me that I was not "entitled" to her time.  She would use this "entitlement" problem of mine as an indicator that I had BPD.

6.  In the first few weeks of our relationship after we had started sleeping together, I asked her if we could become exclusive and she responded by telling me she wanted an "open relationship."  Well at least she didn't lie to me about all the infidelity I should have known to expect was coming at that point.

7.  Also in the first few weeks of our 1 year relationship, telling me matter of factly that she was going to Cuba with a guy she had just met online a couple of weeks earlier.  A year later, this is the same guy she would dump me for.  When I asked her if they were going to sleep together, she told me "well we are staying in the same room."  When I refused to respond emotionally, she told me that the two of them were going to see who could have sex with the most people.  Months later, my ex told me she told me this part of her story "just to get a reaction" out of me.

8.  Casually informing me one time when I was at her place that she had gone on a date with another guy to see a third guy, an ex bf, perform with his band.  She was then wonderful enough to tell me that she ditched her date and instead took the ex bf home so they could sleep together.

9.   A few days after telling me this wonderful story, my BP ex gf told me she loved me.  Isn't that sweet of her?

10.  She told me not to worry about STD's because she was having safe sex.  Upon reading her diary, I found this to be not true.  I bet you can all imagine what a great day that was for me.  By the way, she commented in her diary that if I was so afraid of getting STD's then I should have wore a condom with her.  You all can imagine the horror on my face when I read all of this.

There are many many many more incidents so many I could fill a whole book in fact I probably should write a book about this crazy woman and how crazy I was for being in a "relationship" with her.  Good God reading all this stuff makes me realize just how low I got in my life by being with this crazy nutjob.

[ellil]

My ex was in Vietnam. He was part of a team, and the young man with him was killed. A few years after my ex returned, he says he donated part of his kidney to the young man's brother, which saved the brother's life.

Now, cynic I am, I actually wonder if that is a true story--not that it's not true at least in some small part, but, unfortunately, I've come to question nearly everything he ever told me. I'm inclined to believe this is true, but there's this nagging feeling I get that, well, I don't know... .I also have never noticed any scar on him that would verify his story.

M

[guiltyandsad]

All the selfless acts I thought were selfless were used for control.

When I was on disability my exBPDgf would give me expensive things to sell.  Purses, sunglasses etc.  When I was in the r/s I was brainwashed to think that she did this out of love.  I learned rather quickly they were acts of control.  It always came back in a rage or a distant time when she would say "what gf would give you expensive things like these to sell?"

My T helped me see that my exBPDgf complained all the time that I made less money than her (she was 9 years older and more established than me) but really used it as a control piece with me. 

So no I didn't witness any selfless acts, there seemed to always be a motive behind it.

[david]

My BPDw only does selfless things if a lot of people get to see it or know about it.

There were several instances that the only one that would know was me and that wasn't enough to motivate her.

[redberry]

Nope.  Oh, he would give me a small gift for Christmas or my birthday or pick up dinner here and there but it was just because he knew he had to do these bare minimum things to get so much more in return.  Truly selfless, with no expectations... . Never.

[2010]

Has anyone else had their BPD commit what you would call a selfless act.

My ex impressed me when she told me that she had been an egg donor for her friend for IVF treatment.

I thought that it was a very selfless act.

Borderline personality disorder is the failure to be a "self" unless they mirror others. Because of this, they exist as part time selves; either good and bad- and they look to others to accentuate the good part time self while erroneously thinking that it will make them whole personalities.  This is the crux of the disorder; the failure to separate/individuate from their primary object.  

Because Borderline is a case of arrested development and because Borderline is a distorted belief about being *and* staying attached to their modern day re-interpretations of the "primary object," Borderlines are chameleons, evaluating others as to where they can be valued. This is not a "selfless" act in the way you think- instead, it's actually an attempt to be a "self" by mirroring the "self" needs of others.

Borderlines choose their attachments according to need. If there is something that can be valued in the mind of the Borderline, the Borderline will offer it for attachment.  Meanwhile, their emotions are very shallow and at the surface, and they can become emotionally labile over the perceived withdrawal of the "good" reward in people.  Whatever has been used in valuation is now overvalued and because of this- scorned. Anything to do with the body (sex, eggs, etc.) is offered in a state of dissociative worship that only adds to the persecution complex.

When the "good" reward is perceived to be withdrawing, Borderlines cling desperately and try to prevent their concept of wholeness from leaving- in effect, causing the part time "good" to disappear and become replaced by the part time "bad." It is the wholly "bad" that causes the hating of the attachment and also fuels the Borderline anger over the failure to become a whole "self" without the valuation of others.

[Sofie]

Hmm, maybe I have just grown too cynical, but I don't think a person as obsessed with fulfilling their own needs, as a pwBPD is can commit really self-less acts. (I think very few people can, actually.)

Now I am just playing armchair psychiatrist here, but donating eggs could also be motivated by a psychological need to matter - to make a difference, to reproduce. Knowing that something of you will carry on in this world, when you're gone.

I used to think that my ex had a self-less relationship to her little nephew - she doted on him and spoiled him rotten. But thinking back I am of the impression that it was a bit more twisted than that - as if she somehow saw herself in him (they looked scarily alike) and tried to repair her own childhood issues with him as a prop.

[bpdlover]

0

[GonnaMakeIt]

My BPDh can articulate how he feels very well and is very high funcitoning. He told me recently that he is the most selfish, unselfish person you will ever meet and that he can't explain it.

I think it isn't so cut and dry as a selfish or not selfish act. I am not sure he can even decipher. But, yes, I think there were things he had done that were selfless. I think... .but it's a tough call!

[jadedfornow]

pfft, BPD's are never selfless. I fthey do something for somebody its more for impulsive reasons or to talk about it so they seem "kind and compassionate". My ex bp would talk about how borderlines are supposed to have empathy and compassion and she has zilch. Sje is the most self serving person I have ever come across with no care in the world about the damage she does and anytime she did feel anything she would drown it out with meds anyway.

[yianks69]

donating eggs could also be motivated by a psychological need to matter - to make a difference, to reproduce. Knowing that something of you will carry on in this world, when you're gone.

Exactly my thought when I started reading this thread.

She did it to raise her value on how other people perceive her. As we know, pwBPD can’t stand criticism but adore praise so her act was anything but selfless. Hence, the devaluation later on. 

[balagan]

Any acts they ever do whether selfless or not were mere covert contracts, e.g. they were always after some uncommunicated payback.

I can actually never remember her doing anything that was selfless, it was always about her. Its amazing once the fog clears how everything she ever did fit the same pattern. I don't think most of them know the meaning of altruism, never mind actually ever perform any.

[bpdlover]

Interesting point. My ex would always tell me off if I let her know how much I had been doing for her. She would say, "it's not a tally." She once told me her parents used to use tricks like that so I can see why she didn't like it. 99-1 probably didn't sit comfortably with her either. It was so all about her.

[guiltyandsad]

Interesting point. My ex would always tell me off if I let her know how much I had been doing for her. She would say, "it's not a tally." She once told me her parents used to use tricks like that so I can see why she didn't like it. 99-1 probably didn't sit comfortably with her either. It was so all about her.

yes towards the end of the r/s as my resentment grew towards my exBPDgf, I began to point out all the things I had done for her, countless home improvement projects, car repairs, fixing computer issues, taking care of her dog, cooking for her etc. I grew desperate to defend myself against her accusations that I don't do anything for her, I'm a bad bf, she does so much for me, how she's patient enough to be with a loser guy who can't wine her and dine her and pay for every meal or pay for vacations etc.  her response to me pointing out what i do for her was always "don't do things for me if you think I'm gonna have to owe you". more hypocrisy because she kept a running tab in her head 24/7 and would always say "what gf will do this for you, you're so spoiled" after every kind or thoughtful gesture.

sigh... .such mind games no wonder I was in tr fog.

[MuGGzy]

Mine would do ridiculously over the top stuff to help other people, like loaning them money for bills, or taking them grocery shopping. The problem was that she would then leave us short on money for bills and didn't seem concerned about that part. Or she would go to herculean efforts to help someone like going over to help someone pack when they were moving, but then ending up "over doing it" so she would have to be in bed for 2-3 days because her back/neck/arms were so sore and therefore she could not do anything around our house.

I don't think she did these things because she was kind or actually wanted to help people, I think she did them for the attention and validation she got from them and everyone she TOLD about doing them. She LOVED looking like a self sacrificing martyr, the problem was that she was mostly sacrificing her own family in the process.

[bpdlover]

Sounds hauntingly familiar GuiltyAndSad. Mine didn't do anything except take. Unless you count her self soothing phone conversations. Her excuse among others was if you want a Mother go back to your ex.

[captainkirkz]

Borderline personality disorder is the failure to be a "self" unless they mirror others. Because of this, they exist as part time selves; either good and bad- and they look to others to accentuate the good part time self while erroneously thinking that it will make them whole personalities.  This is the crux of the disorder; the failure to separate/individuate from their primary object.  

Makes PERFECT sense this does 2010. Thanks!


Thanks all for the replies so far. I did think that it was a bit of a contradiction in terms ... .a (suspected) BPD with no sense of self, committing a selfless act.

With IVF egg donation, as i understand it, via some research, is mainly done anonymously.

It's not unknown for a 'known' donor to be used though. Her friend had twins, using my exes eggs and it was highly publicised, in glossy magazines and national/local newspapers.

A couple of things that my ex told me ... .

She said that she would NEVER buy another glossy magazine again after ONE particular magazine upset her by omitting her own daughter from the story. She was true to her word and never bought a glossy mag although it was only one particular mag that upset her.

The friend that she donated her eggs to, upset her when my ex thought that if anything ever happened to her and her husband, that she would get custody of the IVF twins. However, her friend granted custody to her sister in that scenario. My ex was upset but didn't paint her friend black at the time(too much to lose maybe)

The day before me and my ex split, she called her friend that she had donated her eggs to, a fruitloop. A little strange to me, as they were friends from childhood. She was also derogatory about some work colleagues during the same conversation. I sort of had the feeling that i was going to be added to the blacklist soon after but, i didn't see it coming in the spectacular way that it did!

It spawns another question now, in hindsight about BPD. That is... .is it possible that, when they get into a down cycle they can paint MORE than one person black while they are in this mood? Can they do a blackwash job on a wholesale basis?

[argyle]

Sure. Plenty.  When she's not triggered.  She'll help people quietly and persistently.

Mind you, she does plenty of damage when she is triggered. And she often triggers when trying to help people.

My interpretation has been that some BPDs are also pretty good people.

And some BPDs are not.

Unfortunately, all BPDs are crazy. I actually suspect that having no sense of self can sometimes make it easier to be selfless - depending on who you have to mirror.

--Argyle

[bpdlover]

My ex was certainly taking pot shots at everyone in her orbit most of the time. If it wasn't her parents, it would be her ex and me being painted black to her parents who became white for listening. Round and round we go.

[bpdlover]

My Mother is the type who does things for others and actually keeps her balance pretty well. You never see her down though. It's just not possible to be that happy all the time. That's not life. My ex, just wants everything for herself. If I bought lunch for her, she would look the sandwiches like the child she is and take the biggest one and give me a cheeky grin. I think I may have been trying to reparent myself actually. Maybe I wanted both of us to simply heal from traumatic childhoods. Ok, back on point now.

[guiltyandsad]

My ex was certainly taking pot shots at everyone in her orbit most of the time. If it wasn't her parents, it would be her ex and me being painted black to her parents who became white for listening. Round and round we go.

come to think of it this is something my exBPDgf definitely did. from her neighbors being too religious, to her ex husband being too social and talking too much, to her coworkers being too conservative, and me being too controlling.

definitely a circle I went around in way too many times.

[tuum est61]

My uBPw of 5 1/2 years is, on the surface, an extremely caring compassionate person.  It took me a while to get used to her seeing a street person while driving and turning around to go back and give them money or food.  She is extremely high functioning and ends up being the "go to" person for people that share their problems with her.  She has high morals, doesn't cheat on me, and works hard (right now a full time and 2 part time jobs).  She is extremely popular with lots of people and was initially completely selfless when we first got together with me and my 3 daughters. 

But on the other hand, she is clearly suffering from BPD as evidenced with her struggles with the normal challenges and disagreements in more intimate relationships - especially with my side of the family - me, my daughters, my parents and siblings.   If anyone crosses her, she immediately withdraws her compassion - in the most hurtful and distressing ways.  My daughters really took to her when we first got married due to her selfless acts for them.  But not long into the marriage that changed; she was vindictive, selfish, and hypocritical in how she treated them relative to her own son.  As they got older, they got tired of the fickle nature of her caring and concern for them.  That ended up being a vicious circle, with her withdrawal supporting their withdrawal supporting her further withdrawal. My d18 left the house at 16 due to constant conflict with my wife.   My d14 lives with constant negativity flowing from my wife.  My d20 has chosen to not accept my wife's invitation to stay with us again. That "rejection" caused more withdrawal.   My wife, in fact declared last night that I needed to have d14 stay elsewhere while I am gone overnight tonight on a business trip.  (That was a BIG fight - because I said no to that.) Despite all this turmoil, the two older daughters have good jobs and good boyfriends, and my d14 is a honor roll student.  Her s17, on the other hand, dropped out of school, doesnt work, and doesn't have to meet ANY expectations. 

In particular, my wife cannot handle that as bad as their mother was - she gave me custody of the girls when they were 8, 6, and 2 to pursue internet boyfriends - the girls still loved her and did want to be with her from time to time.   While my wife would claim she had no issues with them seeing their mother, it was readily apparent that she viewed that as a rejection of her.  Me defending the girls right to see their mother is twisted into me defending their mother, even as I went NC with their mother to try to deal with it.

So yeah, she is a selfless person - with others outside my family.  Gifts for me don't usually involve much thought.  I am often asked to pick out a gift when we are out shopping ahead of Christmas or my birtday.  She refused to participate in any of the Christmas activities with my side of the family this year.  That relationship has been in a gradual decline since we got married 5 years ago and has hit a new low.  Sex is rarely offered - and only when I have managed to complete enough things to be "good." 

I am starting to think that her selflessness with street people is really only a response to the fact her brother ended up on the street and passed away a few years ago without her knowing for well over a year.  It soothes her soul; I don't want to be heartless about it but handing out to these people helps her deal with the pain of her loss - it's not all that selfless.  She certainly doesn't offer that same compassion to all and complains all the time about how hard she works and the people that abuse the social welfare system - and in particular my ex.   

Other members of the bpdfamily here have far more "extreme" situations.  Sometimes I feel when I post about my situation, I feel bad about complaining.  But it is no fun to always be split bad - my daughters and I suffer greatly for it.  We do want the selfless person back that we came to know.  But as we know with BPD, we have to be the ones that change first - in particular me.  As I struggle to stay, I can only hope that my changes somehow motivate my wife to change, but I am not holding my breath. 

[Free One]

Are you sure she didn't donate eggs and get payment somehow for them?

I don't really see it as selfless if she then got all the publicity and attention from doing it.

Mine also often did nice things or helped out others, which most of the time upset me because he was doing so before meeting my needs (ie  fixing up things at his parent's house before taking care of our house). I think he did it because of the instant praise and appreciation from the other person.

[JDoe]

None from my STBXH, either.  It may have appeared that he was kind and generous to strangers and those who did not have as much as we did, but there was always a price tag, strings attached, or a desire to be thought well of behind every single act.

Generous gifts to my family = eternal loyalty and forgetting that he acted like a jerk to my brother and my sister.

He was a thoughtful gift giver, too, but the price was so high.  He bought me a used pickup truck for a birthday once, then insisted on getting a cap for it, which I did not want.  After I left, 11 months ago, he brought up the truck- "You wanted a truck, so I got you one.  Why are you doing this to me?"

Nobody felt comfortable being on the receiving end of his generosity, because it was never humanly possible to be appreciative enough.  Of course, he would pick apart and tear down any gift he received ("Could they have bothered to get a decent color?  What, did they buy this at the junk store?  How many times do I have to tell you NOT to buy me any clothes?  Are you retarded?)

Ick.  There is no selfless act because they have no sense of self.

[captainkirkz]

Are you sure she didn't donate eggs and get payment somehow for them?

I don't really see it as selfless if she then got all the publicity and attention from doing it.

Mine also often did nice things or helped out others, which most of the time upset me because he was doing so before meeting my needs (ie  fixing up things at his parent's house before taking care of our house). I think he did it because of the instant praise and appreciation from the other person.

I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a payment made, based on what she told me.

And yes i agree shinie, a truly selfless act will always be anonymous if possible in the eyes of the outside world  won't it!

[Free One]

There is no selfless act because they have no sense of self.

I think that nails it.