am i setting myself up to lose my kids?

[thefisherman]

To fully understand where I am coming from, there probably needs to be more background but keeping it as short as possible and still getting the jist across... .  

I had an affair that ended almost 3 years ago.

3 counselors have since said my wife has BPD (one after seeing her with me... .  but only told me, two others after talking to me).

She has been physically and emotionally abusive.

She has destroyed belongings.

She has done all of these things in front of our children, despite my repeated objections.

She packed up the kids and left for 1 night.

The next day, I agreed to go stay with her parents for a while, while we worked on things.

Things got better for a little while and I was back in the house.

Then they got worse again and I am staying at my in-laws' place again.

Am I forfeitting custody if she were to go file for divorce?

What SHOULD I be doing to best protect my children and my custody rights?  And I say that knowing I still want to save my marriage.

[theodore]

Am I forfeitting custody if she were to go file for divorce?

Yes!

What SHOULD I be doing to best protect my children and my custody rights?  And I say that knowing I still want to save my marriage.

Don't move out of the house.  Spend as much time as possible being a Dad for your children.  If she wants "to work on things" and needs to be alone, have her move out.

[seeking balance]

Go talk to an attorney, most give free consults so you have an idea of a strategy going forward.

[ForeverDad]

There is no simple sure answer, many factors are involved.  However, it is true that once you've left - and left the kids behind - it puts you at a definite disadvantage.  Leaving the kids behind effectively sends a message to the court that the kids are okay to stay behind.  Yes, the ranting and raging was mostly at you, but once you're gone the kids are more likely become a new focus of her venting since they remain with her.  Even if that doesn't happen, the risk is higher that she will try to turn them against you.

Meanwhile, document her behaviors.  If she makes statements, whether good or bad, save them, you may need them later.  Has she made any written statements willing to let you have substantial parenting authority and time?

Yes, please get a few initial consultations with family law attorneys.  You need one who has a plan, not just one who will 'walk' you through the process.  Sitting back and letting things happen to you is not a recipe for success.  You need an assertive lawyer and an assertive strategy.

Clearly, don't share any strategies with your wife or any who will pass information on to her.  She has driven you away twice now, do not confide in her, your sense of fairness will not be reciprocated.

How supportive are her parents?  Even if you think they'll support you now, over time she may convince them to withdraw support or even turn against you.  We really don't know since we're remote, so assess who your trusted friends and supporters are.

Also, protect yourself.  I can't say this strongly enough.  It is almost certain she will make some sort of allegation(s) against you, the question is whether they're minor or hugely horrendous.  My ex and I were religious volunteers for the first several years of our marriage but when her health became problematic, she became more "high maintenace", she gave birth to 'her' son and we separated, according to her I morphed into Mr Evil Personified and she started throwing around child abuse allegations like confetti.

Two inexpensive yet important books for you to get are Bill Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD (w/NPD traits) and Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.  Both are mentioned in our Book Reviews board.

[BentNotBroken]

You staying with her parents is not a wise move. Anything and everything you say or do is likely to be recorded/documented by them to be used against you later. When things really hit the fan, do you think they will side with you or their own daughter?

My BPD exGF had 100% parental rights to our son by default due to state law. I stayed until the last possible moment for several reasons: 1. To protect my son as long as possible 2. To take care of him at night, because ex was unable to handle it. 3. To strengthen the bond with my newborn son--I was the first person not on the hospital staff to hold him, I did the skin-to-skin after he was born, and I took care of him almost every night for the first 8 months of his life. 4. To collect as much evidence as possible about the house, finances, exgf's behaviors, etc.

She forced me out of the house, but later claimed that I left voluntarily--implying that I abandoned my son. Completely untrue, but I had to prove otherwise to the GAL. My ex was a raging, violent psycho at home in front of our son, but is playing a complete victim to everyone outside the house. I have been hit with over 100 false accusations so far--some minor, some major. There is no end in sight.

From what I have read, my BPD ex is not all that special. Her behavior fits the pattern described on these boards and in the Bill Eddy "Splitting" book.

If you can manage it, have her go stay with her parents while you take care of the kids in your house. You do not want to be in the position you are in if and when she files for divorce.

oh, and go buy a digital voice recorder. You can get a really good one for about $60. get one with a memory card slot, and get as high capacity of a card as will work in it. Record constantly, don't wait for an explosion to start the recorder. You need to protect yourself so you can protect your kids.

[thefisherman]

I have some recordings from her rages (specifically new year's eve of this year).  I thought it wise because she was asking me to hit her repeatedly and saying stuff like "i feel physically threatened".  So I kept it in my hand... .  hit record whenever i was concerned.

i have photos of bruises she gave me and a journal with a lot of the insanity that has come to pass.  I have some of the possessions she has destroyed, including our marriage certificate that she ripped up and burned, stuffed animals she ripped apart in front of the child who owned it, and dishes she smashed.  I have pictures of where she kicked/destroyed a metal trash can.  Pics of when she threw a candle in a jar into the wall.  The jar shattered, the wall had a hole in it.

She has a picture of a bruise she got by shoving her knee into a gate (at the top of the steps) to keep me from going to console my son and then claimed I caused the bruise.

I can understand where a judge/lawyer might say "if she's dangerous, why did you leave her with the kids"? 

Is she dangerous?  Maybe.  I guess I don't feel that way when it comes to the kids.  Dangerous to me?  You bet. 

I think she knows the custody game pretty well.  She has a 13 y/o daughter from a previous marriage.  Her ex has accused my wife of abusing their daughter.  3 years ago,  I would say she was.

I am quite  certain she has no intention of ever leaving me alone with them overnight... .  but I will push for that so she can not say she is afraid of leaving me with them either.  I just feel like there has to be a way to get things to a manageable state of being.  I am quite reasonable, a good father, and easy to get along with... .  just not for her right now. 

[theodore]

I just feel like there has to be a way to get things to a manageable state of being.

Unfortunately, this will probably be a very, very long time.  Hunker down and get ready.  Eat well, exercise, and get plenty of rest;  you will need to be at the top of your game to pull through this.  You are not alone, we have all been there and many of us have done better than expected.

[ForeverDad]

I am quite certain she has no intention of ever leaving me alone with them overnight... .  but I will push for that so she can not say she is afraid of leaving me with them either.  I just feel like there has to be a way to get things to a manageable state of being.  I am quite reasonable, a good father, and easy to get along with... .  just not for her right now.

Let's look at this one paragraph, okay?

First, the only reason to block you from having overnights is if the children would be at risk or in some sort of danger.  That means she will most likely make some sort of allegations about you or your parenting in order to get the upper hand in parenting.  Typical claims are (1) abuse, (2) neglect or (3) you're likely to be 'dangerous'.  Discuss with your lawyer how to deal with that distressing but likely scenario.  Your goal is to be proactive, not defensive.  Success, like football, often hinges on a proactive strategy or offense, not a defensive strategy.

Expanding on that, why would the kids be safe enough during the day with you but not overnight?  Frankly, you or your lawyer have to point this out in court, don't expect the judge to do your defense for you.  Show the illogic that kids are okay with you for day visits but not overnights or weekends.

Frankly, alternate weekends and an evening or overnight in between are standard nearly everywhere.  She would need to present a good case - or you present a poor or lame defense - for her to have basis to convince the court to limit you to anything less than the standard minimum.

Also, you have a lot of leverage asking for more, but with a bare minimum of the standard schedule.  Why?  It's been proven to be workable in the majority of cases, courts and lawyers like it and enforcing anything less means that parent has huge issues.  Since you don't have huge issues, that ought to be your worst case scenario.  No specific guarantees, of course.

That said, understand that until you do get to court and get the court to make the initial temporary order, she will likely try to "rule the roost" and dictate horrendous terms to you.  Sadly, she'll probably get away with it, without a specific written court order in hand even the police won't help you get parenting time with your children.  Until there are court orders, it's a free-for-all and all about who has and keeps 'possession' of the kids.  In my case, my ex blocked all father-child contact for 3 months until we got our initial hearing in family court.  My child was a pre-schooler and she didn't work, so I had no opportunity to go to school or daycare to pick him up without her around.  She faced no consequences for doing so.  Yes, she excused it alleging without substantiation that I was a child abuser, but the court ignored that just as it ignored her blocking and asked who had history of most time with the children.

One point to keep making before the court, one my Custody Evaluator seemed to give emphasis in his report, is that my ex couldn't share 'her' child but I could.  Ponder that.

My ex has a long history of obstructing my parenting.  Over time it has allowed me to gradually get better and better orders.  When it comes to capable fathers, my court apparently prefers baby steps over time.  I started out with alternate weekends and a 3-hour evening in between.  Court refused to make recommended changes to the order during my 2 year divorce, but I walked out with equal time in Shared Parenting and my primary condition for her to avoid a trial was that I became Residential Parent for School Purposes.  After a couple years of continuing preriodic conflict, I went back and got custody.  A couple more years of continuing preriodic conflict and I'm currently in court again to get majority time.  Yes, over 7 years since separation, but I was able to work my way uphill against the odds.

Second, you are "quite reasonable, a good father, and easy to get along with".  Umm, that works in everyday life, it makes common sense, but that's generally ignored in family court.  We have a saying here, The misbehaving parent gets few if any consequences and the reasonably normal parent gets no credit.  Sad but often true.  However, you still have to show what a wonderful dad you are, just don't expect it to have the terrific impact it ought to get.  Therefore, you also need to highlight how she is obstructing your parenting, that her uncooperativeness and unsubstantiated allegations need to be limited or discounted in some way.  Courts want parents to share the parenting, so your goal is to show you can and will share the children and parenting - and that she is not.  It may be a tough sell, it may take a Custody Evaluation, but it can be done over time.

When documenting or reporting her misbehaviors, focus and give emphasis to her parenting and co-parenting behaviors.  While her adult behaviors, conflict with you, may be important too, courts generally give it less attention, almost as though they expect poorly-behaving adults can still be 'okay' parents.

[livednlearned]

Expanding on that, why would the kids be safe enough during the day with you but not overnight?  Frankly, you or your lawyer have to point this out in court, don't expect the judge to do your defense for you.  Show the illogic that kids are okay with you for day visits but not overnights or weekends.

Just to push back on this a bit -- this scenario is actually true in my case. N/BPDxh is allowed to see S11 during the day, but not at night. Granted, there was a manic episode over the summer, but it's not totally illogical (especially if TBG's w makes false allegations) that this scenario is presented in court. And there are others here on this board where unsupervised day visitation is allowed, but not overnights, for a variety of reasons.

Just sayin'.

[thefisherman]

does having a recording of her being verbally abusive in front of the kids, with me asking her to stop and for the kids to not be party to it make any difference?  I mean... .  REALLY bad stuff.

Her ex-husband would testify to her 13 y/o telling HIM my wife was physically abusive toward the 13 y/o. (no physcial evidence)

Pictures of bruises she gave me?

My aim is 50/50.  That is what I would like.  I don't know for sure what is best for the kids.

And yes... .  she has proven she is not willing to share the kids.  I have proven I am willing to share the kids.  Email documented exchange.

[livednlearned]

does having a recording of her being verbally abusive in front of the kids, with me asking her to stop and for the kids to not be party to it make any difference?  I mean... .  REALLY bad stuff.

Her ex-husband would testify to her 13 y/o telling HIM my wife was physically abusive toward the 13 y/o. (no physcial evidence)

Pictures of bruises she gave me?

My aim is 50/50.  That is what I would like.  I don't know for sure what is best for the kids.

And yes... .  she has proven she is not willing to share the kids.  I have proven I am willing to share the kids.  Email documented exchange.

It seems like there is no silver bullet. There is no such thing as "proof" that will win you this or that in family court. If you live in a state where they allow recordings as evidence (not sure if she consented to them or not?) then you can enter that as evidence. But more than likely you will also have a custody evaluation, maybe a guardian ad litem assigned to your case, both of you undergoing psych evaluations. You might both undergo depositions (in which many BPDs get loose enough with the facts).

You'll often see members here recommend asking for more so that you get 50/50. If your wife is demonstrating serious signs of abuse and instability, she may end up with less than 50/50 (like every other weekend plus one weeknight).