He'll never be "okay."

[turtle]

I wish there was a board entitled "LEFT," because I left long, long ago. I've never regretted it. I don't post much here anymore because I've moved on and there is life after BPD. I do come back once in awhile just to check in.  This time I'm back because stupid mental illness has touched my life again.

It's been over ELEVEN years since I last saw crazyx.  The last time I saw him was when the cops hauled him off in handcuffs. He had held me hostage in my own home for nearly 3 days.  High, high drama!

Sadly, my story is not uncommon to so many here. These relationships are full of tragedy, heartbreak, confusion, and pure destruction.

Like so many others, I experienced a ___load of horrific behavior including domestic violence. Stalking - the worst of it lasted for about 5 years, then it tapered off and finally halted about three years ago.  Yes... .  he stalked me for eight years.  Sigh.  That was awful, but I dealt with it.  And during all of that, I dealt with ME.  Lots of self examination - lots of self truths that were not flattering. And... .  more relationship mistakes along the way - resulting in MORE self examination.

Anyway... .  all had been quiet from him for a long time.  Life moved on... .  I moved forward and finally stopped looking over my shoulder. 

Then... .  New Year's Day.  He surfaced. FORTUNATELY -- he doesn't live in my State, so this was all via phone and stupid facebook.  How silly I was to think that I could have a facebook page.  I will never be able to do something like that.

Anyway... .  I can't tell if he's just been stewing in his insanity for the last eleven years or if I've just been away from it for so long that the flagrancy of it is just shocking.  Hard to tell if he's gotten worse or I've gotten better.

I actually tried to speak with him. Why?  Because I'm an idiot. What a disaster.  Within a matter of MINUTES, he was making ridiculous demands of me - then he started in with the name calling and then he hung up on me. Oh, so familiar.   Within minutes, I felt all of the fear and negativity that was my life eleven years ago.

The ONLY emotions I have left for him are fear and pity.  That's it.

His "state" makes me sad. He will never be "okay." EVER.  And in that sadness... .  I am glad I saved myself.  He nearly ruined me financially and had I stayed, he would have killed me.  If not physically - mentally and emotionally.  I'm so grateful to be away from him. It pains me to think what my life would have been like had I stayed.  I'm so grateful that is NOT my reality.

turtle

[myself]

Hi Turtle, wow, sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing, it shows how much you've overcome and how you're very able to face things when they come up. You've been an inspiration as far as strength and getting through this kind of stuff, I feel for you and again thank you too for showing it can be done. You've been here for so many others, glad to read you've moved on pretty well and are living a better life for yourself.

Peace for you and   

[redfeather]

 

I truly believe without getting help they indeed continue to "stew in their insanity". Well put but the very last part you write REALLY hit home for me and I hope for those who are continuously questioning what they did wrong will pay heed and here it goes:... .  

His "state" makes me sad. He will never be "okay." EVER.  And in that sadness... .  I am glad I saved myself.  He nearly ruined me financially and had I stayed, he would have killed me.  If not physically - mentally and emotionally.  I'm so grateful to be away from him. It pains me to think what my life would have been like had I stayed.  I'm so grateful that is NOT my reality.

Thank you for your post turtle sorry it came to that but itis best we see what they are truly not keep false hope.

[seeking balance]

Turtle my friend 

I actually tried to speak with him. Why?  Because I'm an idiot. What a disaster.  Within a matter of MINUTES, he was making ridiculous demands of me - then he started in with the name calling and then he hung up on me. Oh, so familiar.  

Thank you for posting this... .  you know more than most about the disorder, recovery, etc - and I know you will take good care of yourself.

You are not an idiot - after 11 years, I imagine those horrible feelings were long gone and honestly you would hope it may be different.  I would likely have done the same thing - honestly.

What will you do now?  Change your number?

[turtle]

You've been here for so many others, glad to read you've moved on pretty well and are living a better life for yourself.

Thanks myself!  Just over the last year I have finally reached a place of peace. That doesn't mean my circumstances are perfect.  They are not.  But... .  I am at peace within myself.  It's been a long time coming and I worked hard to be in this place.  I like being in this place and I will not give it up.

Thank you for your post turtle sorry it came to that but itis best we see what they are truly not keep false hope.

It IS best that we remember who they truly are.  

After all these years, he merely needed a target for his anger. Someone to throw up all of that rage on.      Why he thinks this behavior is endearing is beyond me.  It was grossly unattractive eleven years ago and it's even more unattractive now.

And just to be clear... .  even if he told me he'd been in therapy and was now conducting seminars in dbt, that wouldn't change the course of my life one bit.  I haven't had any "hope" or desire about a reconnection with him in YEARS. However... .  I would be happy to hear that he had finally chosen not to be so tortured.   That will never happen and if he calls eleven years from now, I will not speak with him. I will never throw myself in front of that bus again!

Thank you for posting this... .  you know more than most about the disorder, recovery, etc - and I know you will take good care of yourself.

You are not an idiot - after 11 years, I imagine those horrible feelings were long gone and honestly you would hope it may be different.  I would likely have done the same thing - honestly.

What will you do now?  Change your number?

Yes... .  I will and HAVE taken good care of myself.

I think the only reason I spoke to him (I'm a staunch believer in no contact and have preached it all over these boards,) is because I was curious.  What had eleven years done for him?  I have always hoped that he'd seek treatment and maybe, just maybe, this was why he was calling!  Pfft. I can't believe I fell for it.  I'm smarter than that.  At least I thought I was!

I can't change my number... .  he calls at my business and believe it or not... .  I don't have caller ID there.  That phone system is 26 years old - .  He called, and I answered the phone.  I was caught totally off guard. I'll be getting a new phone system this week, although he can get around caller ID if he decides to be a pain in my a$$. Sadly, because of my business, I am not hard to find.

However... .  I don't think he will pursue anything further. At least it doesn't seem like it.  All has been quiet for several days.  In the past, that would not have been the case. In the past, he would have been calling repeatedly -- all day, all night, all the time.  Maybe he's worn himself out over the last eleven years - .  And... .  it's highly likely that I'm not the only focus for his anger.  I'm sure he's been torturing others over the last eleven years and if any of those women have the misfortune of living closer to him, he'll focus on one of them.  I feel so sorry for anyone he's decided to pick on! Anyway... .  if he does make a nuisance of himself, I know what to do!

This contact with him disrupted my daily life very briefly, but it has disrupted my thoughts for a few days now.  I've relived the horror of all I went through with him.  I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, although I'd rather not think about all of that anymore.  However, thinking about it reminds me what I was saved from (and I'm sure it would have been way worse had I stayed) and it makes me VERY, VERY grateful for my life now.  A place of gratitude is never a bad thing.

turtle

[FindingMe2011]

.I can't tell if he's just been stewing in his insanity for the last eleven years or if I've just been away from it for so long that the flagrancy of it is just shocking.

Logic would say that it could only get worse, or stay the same. i would think the only thing that gets better, is the ability to hide it. Reminds me of a conversation, about 1 1/2 yrs after separation, the ex started with the excuse of legal prosecution.(the new angle) As I asked her questions, about things that didnt make sense, she started to lose it, and the same feelings in me resurfaced. (do,do,do,dodo,do,do, twilight music) I stopped her midstream and said " Im sorry, this is not going to work for me. I no longer accept this type of behavior."  I got the   look from her. I could see she only heard, Im sorry, and I no longer. We sat there looking at each other, which felt like eternity, i then asked "Is that all you need to say?", she then started the same exact words again. I then said the last words we have spoken. " I cant speak with you, you believe your own lies."  She had no reply, and I walked away. Another chance for her to come clean, she couldnt do it... .   I was glad to see myself put things back in there proper place, in a reasonable amount of time, and remembered. It was the behavior I accepted before, and she was more than willing to give it. Status quo for her, and still drowning in her own confusion. Sad to see the order, to the disorder.

Hard to tell if he's gotten worse or I've gotten better

Rest assure, its more of the latter, its not a time to let doubt creep in.

How silly I was

Because I'm an idiot.

No, your turtle, that still has faith in humanity, and obviously felt the need to know, if things had changed for him also. You got your answer... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[turtle]

" I cant speak with you, you believe your own lies."  She had no reply, and I walked away. Another chance for her to come clean, she couldnt do it... .   I was glad to see myself put things back in there proper place, in a reasonable amount of time, and remembered. It was the behavior I accepted before, and she was more than willing to give it. Status quo for her, and still drowning in her own confusion. Sad to see the order, to the disorder.

And that's what it comes down to, isn't it?  They believe their own lies!  It leaves us no where to go, but out the door and into the land of no contact. 

And yes... .  the order in the disorder.  Clearly, something has occurred in crazyx's life that has caused him to reorder his own disorder and lucky me... .  I was a part of the reordering process.  So sad. His "order" is complete chaos to everyone else.

No, your turtle, that still has faith in humanity, and obviously felt the need to know, if things had changed for him also. You got your answer... .  I wish you well, PEACE

Sometimes, I don't think I have any faith in humanity at all, so thanks for saying this!

turtle

[DreamGirl]

 

[turtle]

right back atcha! 

[FindingMe2011]

Sometimes, I don't think I have any faith in humanity at all, so thanks for saying this!

Noe of this would have taken place if you didnt. As you know, many that have had your experiences, crawl in a hole, to never be seen again... .  It was a reminder, thats all. To show you why, you have the boundaries, you do.

It leaves us no where to go,

To the contrary, there are a zillion places to go. Just one place not to go.

Clearly, something has occurred in crazyx's life that has caused him to reorder his own disorder and lucky me

You do need some reminders It was in play long before you, and will be long after you, as you see. Not to be taken personally. Its still not about you... .  Look as if you need to round them up again, and put them where you know they belong, not where you know they dont... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[GreenMango]

Sorry to hear this was/is happened and is wearing on you.

It leaves us no where to go,

To the contrary, there are a zillion places to go. Just one place not to go.

That is very poignant and true.  I like the positive spin.  

[turtle]

Sorry to hear this was/is happened and is wearing on you.

It leaves us no where to go,

To the contrary, there are a zillion places to go. Just one place not to go.

That is very poignant and true.  I like the positive spin.  

Thanks GreenMango -- it is just a blip in the road that has been well travelled on the way OUT of Oz and for that I'm grateful!


I agree there are a million places to go.  My original statement was this:

"They believe their own lies!  It leaves us no where to go, but out the door and into the land of no contact."  

I meant this to be directed at these people that believe their own lies.  When dealing with someone who believes their own lies, they really do leave you with no other place to go than out the door and THAT leads to the zillion other places you can and SHOULD go!  And the sooner, the better! .


turtle

[GreenMango]

I get that part that the healthy choice is limited and you don't really get any other options.  I was just thinking of all the great places you still had open.  It was just one place where you know things don't change.

But damn if you aren't resilient.    That's a bonus.

[turtle]

But damn if you aren't resilient.    That's a bonus.

.  Thanks!

[GreenMango]

I've wondered if things would be different in the future and if the person would be doing better.  Maybe making better choices, happier, healthier... .  maybe he has a family, some security, etc... .  maybe we could be cordial acquaintances in passing on the street.

But who's believing their own lies now? .  Reality is it's probably not gonna happen and it's more likely the more things change the more they stay the same.  And, living like that anymore sounds masochistic.

Hang in there.

[turtle]

I've wondered if things would be different in the future and if the person would be doing better.  Maybe making better choices, happier, healthier... .  maybe he has a family, some security, etc... .  maybe we could be cordial acquaintances in passing on the street.

But who's believing their own lies now? .  Reality is it's probably not gonna happen and it's more likely the more things change the more they stay the same.  And, living like that anymore sounds masochistic.

Hang in there.

!  And that's exactly why I talked to him.  I thought after eleven YEARS, surely something would be different.  Um... .  nope... .  not a damn thing. 

Masochistic is exactly right.  As I was listening to his BS, all I could think was "how was this EVER my life?"  There's no way I would EVER return to that torture and it's beyond me how I endured it oh so long ago!

[Newton]

When we manage to reflect, self soothe, adapt, change... .  I think temporarily that positivity and elation can create some temporary false hope in us for our partners... .  or ex's... .  

Recognition that they are perhaps broken beyond repair is a pretty hard acceptance to take on board... .  especially considering where we have moved to... .   

We are at a better place than before we met them, yet our codependent traits kick in again and we want to drag them kicking and screaming to what we have found... .  but it's not about them... .  is it.  We did this for ourselves. That was the point... .  they can't exist in the contented place we have struggled to find.  We put in the effort, they were unable/incapable of that... .  

[turtle]

When we manage to reflect, self soothe, adapt, change... .  I think temporarily that positivity and elation can create some temporary false hope in us for our partners... .  or ex's... .  

Recognition that they are perhaps broken beyond repair is a pretty hard acceptance to take on board... .  especially considering where we have moved to... .   

We are at a better place than before we met them, yet our codependent traits kick in again and we want to drag them kicking and screaming to what we have found... .  but it's not about them... .  is it.  We did this for ourselves. That was the point... .  they can't exist in the contented place we have struggled to find.  We put in the effort, they were unable/incapable of that... .  

I think this is very accurate Newton.  For a very long time, I wanted nothing good for him. The trail of destruction he'd left behind was undeniable and I was MAD.  REALLY MAD.  Then... .  as time marched on, and I worked on myself, I came to a place of indifference (nirvana  - )  Then, as I became more centered, I couldn't help but want the same peace for him that I had found.  I hoped that he had found some relief from the tortured life he chooses to live.  When I answered the phone, I actually  hoped it would be good news, but my gut knew it wouldn't.  You are right.  He cannot exist in a place of peace.

And as you point out... .  he was incapable of putting in the effort eleven years ago.  I just hoped that during the last eleven years, there might have been even a small recognition in him that he doesn't have to live this way. But... .  he is STILL and will ALWAYS BE incapable of putting in the effort. That makes him dangerous to himself and others, and it makes him a very miserable person. That is sad.

And that is why the only emotions I have left for him are fear and pity.

[Newton]

turtle I read your posts "back in the day" when I first joined... .  YOU and others helped me to get to this understanding  

ps/ as a trite side point I love your sparkly new "ish" turtle shell avatar  

Thankyou for passing on your experience and knowledge ... .  

[turtle]

ps/ as a trite side point I love your sparkly new "ish" turtle shell avatar  Thankyou for passing on your experience and knowledge ... .  

I've had this avatar for a long time, but I'm not around much anymore so it's new to you.  Glad you like it!     I didn't have my sparkle for a long time, but once I got it back, I knew I was on my way!

[Newton]

... .  long may your sparkle continue... .  

[turtle]

... .  long may your sparkle continue... .  

Best wish EVER.  Thank you!

[myself]

And that's what it comes down to, isn't it?  They believe their own lies!  

It's so true, and why so many of these relationships just crash and burn. The 'reality' isn't really there. Rewriting history as you go often messes with the present and the future, too. Falsehoods piled on top of falsehoods do not make the best connections.

I'm not even eleven months out yet, can only imagine what eleven years is like. It seems we get farther and farther apart from them, in all the ways there are. When they approach again like that, just out of the blue (I've had this happen, too), it's like we're seeing them through a telescope when they're right there 'close' to us. Zooming in with our clearer perspectives and healthier outlook, seeing through their patterns (and our own). When all involved know that we don't believe the lies any more, that's when some of the most positive personal changes occur. We grow much better from then on.

Bonus: We're not lying to ourselves, or anyone, as we accept the truth.

[GreenMango]

When they approach again like that, just out of the blue (I've had this happen, too), it's like we're seeing them through a telescope when they're right there 'close' to us. Zooming in with our clearer perspectives and healthier outlook, seeing through their patterns (and our own).

I have never had anyone explain it like this, but your description of what it's like really was spot on.  It definitely startled me. 

When all involved know that we don't believe the lies any more, that's when some of the most positive personal changes occur. We grow much better from then on.

Bonus: We're not lying to ourselves, or anyone, as we accept the truth.

What's that old saying, "the truth sets you free".  The forget to mention sometimes it can be a little sad/pitiful too.

I thought after eleven YEARS, surely something would be different.  Um... .  nope... .  not a damn thing. 

It's sounds like two things have changed - the date and you.  Also a good thing.


Do you guys notice after a time out and away those old sayings that the wise grandma's used to throw out really do apply to an experience like this?

[turtle]

I'm not even eleven months out yet, can only imagine what eleven years is like. It seems we get farther and farther apart from them, in all the ways there are. When they approach again like that, just out of the blue (I've had this happen, too), it's like we're seeing them through a telescope when they're right there 'close' to us. Zooming in with our clearer perspectives and healthier outlook, seeing through their patterns (and our own). When all involved know that we don't believe the lies any more, that's when some of the most positive personal changes occur. We grow much better from then on.

Bonus: We're not lying to ourselves, or anyone, as we accept the truth.

I'm with GreenMango --- I think this is a very accurate description of what it's really like!

And yes... .  two things have changed... .  the date and ME!  And for that, I am very, very grateful!  Sometimes, when I read the struggles of people here, it just breaks my heart. I remember being in that place where time seems to stand still - each day filled with so much anguish that you think it will never end. Yet, time is our friend.  And when I read so many posts about the non worrying that the pwBPD is somehow moving on to a happy life (HIGHLY unlikely,) I want to tell that poster to quit worrying about the other person and move on to your OWN happy life.  However... .  we all have to go through this process at our own pace and the insights come when we are ready to accept them, and not one second before!

Do you guys notice after a time out and away those old sayings that the wise grandma's used to throw out really do apply to an experience like this?

I was just having this conversation with my Mom the other night.  She is soo wise and all of the things she used to say to me when I was a child (and even now) have definitely applied to this situation.  So many things that I brushed off because I thought they were "just" cliches, became cliches because they are TRUE!

[FindingMe2011]

Quote

Do you guys notice after a time out and away those old sayings that the wise grandma's used to throw out really do apply to an experience like this?

I was just having this conversation with my Mom the other night.  She is soo wise and all of the things she used to say to me when I was a child (and even now) have definitely applied to this situation.  So many things that I brushed off because I thought they were "just" cliches, became cliches because they are TRUE!

I just wish that they had the ability, to be vulnerable, and truthful enough, to teach me of these things, in a way that I could relate to them. Instead they put this in a riddle form, almost setting me up to be able to say "I told you so"... .  But we all do the best we can... .  PEACE

[GreenMango]

Riddle form  ... .  So true.

[turtle]

I have to say... .  there were no riddles in this last contact.  Maybe it's because I am beyond riddles (as in, I have no patience for it,) or maybe it's because he was crystal clear.  Either way, there were no question marks in my mind when the exchange was finished.

Example:

After exchanging some catch-up pleasantries (how do you "catch up" after eleven years,) he wanted me to look something up on the internet.  I said, "I will see if I can do that tomorrow and thank you for the info."  He then called me "fu@#ing stupid."    This was the moment that I KNEW not a damn thing was different for him.

I calmly said, "Your disrespect for me is undeniable, hurtful, and intolerable."

Him:  "I know I am mean to you. That doesn't change the fact that I still love you."

Me:  "So you KNOW you are mean to me. You KNOW it is wounding, so why do you do it?"

Him: "Because you are the one person I can do that to!"     

Me: "Not anymore, and not ever again."  And I was back to NO CONTACT.

Bottom line is that when he dysregulates, he looks to the one place where he was able to throw up all of his anger and still be accepted.  Maybe he had to test to see if that place was still available -- it's not!

I was glad for this riddle free exchange.  I thought he was very clear -- maybe the most clear he's ever been.  And so was I. 

turtle

[FindingMe2011]

[quoteI] was glad for this riddle free exchange.  I thought he was very clear -- maybe the most clear he's ever been.[/quote]
My ex was always this clear. As the r/s progressed, i was only allowed to grow, as much as the illness would allow (sick people dont like those close to become healthier) When we step away, we grow leaps and bounds... .  People seek out others, close to there own EQ... .  You are now light years away. What a difference a healthier choice makes... .  PEACE

[GreenMango]

His admissions are scary.  I used to think metal illness and being around it was like talking to the obviously crazy person mumbling to themself on the corner, but after conversations like these (I've had em too) its more insidous than that.  It can be in the everyday, make no sense kind of things too.  Which is seriously messed up because even the simplest things are get affected.  And if a person can't handle the simplest stuff you know it doesn't bode well for everything else.

See here I'm thinking about that saying 'we are the company we keep' or 'misery loves company'. It sounds like that used to be true but you've changed so much (and he hasn't) you are no longer willing to be that company.  

Your thread is making me want to do a list of all good things I learned being around a person like this.  I shudder to think if I never got these lessons (even though some were incredibly painful).