N/BPDx is threatening to file a child abduction charge

[livednlearned]

The parenting coordinator in my case has written a letter giving me permission to travel with S11 to another state for 4 days. I am traveling for work, and N/BPDx cannot have overnights with S11 right now, so S11 is coming with me.

N/BPDx has told the PC he is going to file child abduction charges against me.

Both the PC and my L have said I can go, so I'm going.

But that doesn't mean N/BPDx can't make things difficult. He is implying that he will contact law enforcement about the "abduction" and I'm guessing that means at our destination. I understand that this will only blow up in his face, but I'd still like to be as prepared as possible for potential nuttery.

Anyone have advice on this? I leave next week. The PC has an extension of judicial duties and has assured me it is within her authority to permit travel. So I feel good about that. It's dealing with law enforcement I'm not so sure about, and the process for filing the abduction complaint.

Thanks all.

[livednlearned]

A friend who is an L in another state wrote to let me know why I shouldn't be worried.

No one is going to take an abduction complaint from him.

#1 - he’d have to tell them that you took S11 to Other State for 4 days. They are going to laugh him out of their office.  I believe they would have to get certified copies of  the court orders and would look at the current court case and would see that his visitation is being restricted. If he tried to give them an old order and left out the new stuff, he could be criminally charged with making a false complaint.  In a civil case, he might even have to file a writ of habeas corpus, which would involve the court file, once again and no judge is going to issue that. No police involvement would ever happen without a writ, unless he could make a compelling case that a crime has occurred and S11 is in danger with you. “Oh, he lives with her?” “They are going to Other State for 4 days?”  Really. "Get a life buddy."

Not necessary, but you can also call the Prosecutors office and tell them what is going on and see what their procedure is when someone files an abduction complaint - they see this all the time and are not going to just do what he says.  If they have any kind of domestic violence section, I’d talk to them, too.  Because this is the tactic of abusers and they should know what happens.

#2 OR he’ll have to say that  he doesn’t know where you went. “why do you think they are gone?” “I didn’t get my visitation.” When is your visitation? 4 hours on Sat and Sunday. “It’s only Tuesday (22nd) buddy."  You might want to take a copy of your itinerary and file it in the court file. Just take it to the clerk and ask them to file it under your cause #.  Anyone trying to figure out whether you have a right to travel with S11 will see it. Again a false complaint... .  for a lawyer? He’s turning up the heat on his cooked goose.

Hopefully, the PC will respond. I looked up the statute about her authority and it specifically says she has no liability for anything when acting as a PC, so his threats to sue her are empty and he knows it.  Can you imagine what a judge would say if he tried something like this - if it were possible - but it’s not - and it caused all that trauma to S11?  In the best interests of his child?  I don’t think so.

I feel better! Just wanted to post this in case it ever happens to anyone else. It's hard to find anything online about false allegations and child abduction that fits the kind of case where it's just across state travel (not permanent relocation). Although reading through some of the other experiences out there, the false allegation stuff reeks of PDs.

[Rose1]

Do you have the authority from the PC in writing? If so take it with you, if not get one and take it with you.

[Matt]

Maybe talk with S11 - show him the PC's letter, and if Ex puts the threat in writing, show him that too - and prepare him for the unlikely possibility that you could be confronted by an officer.

If the officer takes S11 aside, and S11 says, "I wasn't abducted.  This is my mom and I'm supposed to be with her." the officer might be less likely to make an arrest.

Just issuing that kind of a threat to the PC should pretty much end your ex's credibility.  Maybe when you get back, you can use that as the basis of a motion reducing his time with S11 even further.

[ForeverDad]

My ex did that during my divorce.  I gave her an advance vacation notice.  She said no.  I said it was a notice, not a request.  My lawyer said to have a nice vacation.  Predictably, she claimed I had abducted my child.  My local police called me about it when I was about 4 states away, almost to the mountains.  She went to the county sheriff's office when I didn't show up for the exchange and tried to get them to send out an Amber Alert.  Fortunately, the deputy on duty gave an emotionally neutral answer, "it didn't meet the criteria for Amber Alert".  A sheriff's investigator was assigned, my lawyer was contacted, issue resolved as far as officialdom was concerned, turned out my then-stbx filed a complaint against the investigator.  You can imagine that didn't go over well at the agency.

Your ex sees any change in the status quo as a trigger for renewed claims.  He already looks bad, so he is trying to make you look worse than him.  Simply leaving the state for a few days is trigger enough for him.

Just do your reasonable best, get the officials to give the okay, carry paperwork with you at all times if at all possible.

[theodore]

But that doesn't mean N/BPDx can't make things difficult. He is implying that he will contact law enforcement about the "abduction" and I'm guessing that means at our destination.

Perhaps you could contact the law enforcement in advance and give them a "heads up".  I did that.  When I announced to my Nut Job that I was divorcing her, I first called the local police department and let them know in case things got crazy.

[DreamGirl]

I feel like he does this a lot?

Big talk.

Not much follow thru.

My husband's ex-wife does that... .  in the moment she doesn't get her way (i.e. "no, you can't have the girls Christmas Day early, we have plans" she offers up a big threat (i.e "I'm calling the police and my lawyer!". Then 9 times out of 10 she accepts the reality and deals with it.

It's hard to stay grounded in amongst these threats, so I'm glad you're choosing to try not to worry about it, but still be prepared in case something happens. I have a feeling that all will be fine.

Wishing you and your son safe travels.

~DreamGirl

[livednlearned]

Do you have the authority from the PC in writing? If so take it with you, if not get one and take it with you.

I'm bringing half my filing cabinet! The original order, the order from the summer, the letter from the PC, the entire email thread from last night in which the PC describes the psychological trauma children experience when law enforcement gets involved in custody issues, strongly cautioning N/BPDx to seriously consider his actions and the impact on S11. Just in case I need to show someone the nature of the threats N/BPDx was making.

[livednlearned]

I feel like he does this a lot?

Big talk.

Not much follow thru.

My husband's ex-wife does that... .  in the moment she doesn't get her way (i.e. "no, you can't have the girls Christmas Day early, we have plans" she offers up a big threat (i.e "I'm calling the police and my lawyer!". Then 9 times out of 10 she accepts the reality and deals with it.

It's hard to stay grounded in amongst these threats, so I'm glad you're choosing to try not to worry about it, but still be prepared in case something happens. I have a feeling that all will be fine.

Wishing you and your son safe travels.

~DreamGirl

Yeah, I'm going for Wise Mind here  React, but don't respond. Or maybe there is another level of chill? Prepare, but don't freak out. How about Ninja chill?

[livednlearned]

But that doesn't mean N/BPDx can't make things difficult. He is implying that he will contact law enforcement about the "abduction" and I'm guessing that means at our destination.

Perhaps you could contact the law enforcement in advance and give them a "heads up".  I did that.  When I announced to my Nut Job that I was divorcing her, I first called the local police department and let them know in case things got crazy.

I tried to figure out how to do that -- and it was surprisingly hard to find out what the process is. In my state, I think family abduction cases go through the Prosecutor's Office. If so, then that means they look up what's in our file, and they see that n/BPDx has S11 4% of the time, and that there is a PC involved, etc. I may ask to have the itinerary filed so they see that in my case file.

[livednlearned]

My ex did that during my divorce.  I gave her an advance vacation notice.  She said no.  I said it was a notice, not a request.  My lawyer said to have a nice vacation.  Predictably, she claimed I had abducted my child.  My local police called me about it when I was about 4 states away, almost to the mountains.  She went to the county sheriff's office when I didn't show up for the exchange and tried to get them to send out an Amber Alert.  Fortunately, the deputy on duty gave an emotionally neutral answer, "it didn't meet the criteria for Amber Alert".  A sheriff's investigator was assigned, my lawyer was contacted, issue resolved as far as officialdom was concerned, turned out my then-stbx filed a complaint against the investigator.  You can imagine that didn't go over well at the agency.

Your ex sees any change in the status quo as a trigger for renewed claims.  He already looks bad, so he is trying to make you look worse than him.  Simply leaving the state for a few days is trigger enough for him.

Just do your reasonable best, get the officials to give the okay, carry paperwork with you at all times if at all possible.

Thanks FD. I had a hunch someone here had already been through this, and it's very helpful hearing how law enforcement handled it. I'm not worried about the legal part, just how to prevent drama with law enforcement in front of S11.

Matt, good idea about giving S11 a heads up. I'm getting better at those conversations. Not alarming him, not making excuses for N/BPDx, and yet preparing him for whatever weird thing might happen.

[GaGrl]

You need to give your ex a bigger shovel to dig his hole a bit faster.

[livednlearned]

You need to give your ex a bigger shovel to dig his hole a bit faster.

Haven't laughed about this circus for a while! Thanks gagrl.

I'm at the weary stage now where it isn't the fear about what he will do, it's the irritation with the amount of time and cost it takes. I miss having a savings account 

[GaGrl]

Don't mind me... .  I'm just giddy because DH's ex (The Dark Princess) is 12,000 miles away for 4 weeks.

[ForeverDad]

I'm at the weary stage now where it isn't the fear about what he will do, it's the irritation with the amount of time and cost it takes. I miss having a savings account 

I agree.  And what's a savings account?  I haven't had one since the marriage was headed for the rocks.

At least I'm putting 4% into retirement, really only enough to supplement for a couple years, my age allows me to put in 5 times as much and full retirement age is less than a decade away but... .  the ex is still a financial drain.

[DreamGirl]

Ahhhhhh... .  

A savings account.

Or a paid off credit card.

A vacation I can actually afford.

The only people who really benefit from the drama are the attorneys. 

[livednlearned]

UPDATE:

So I flew to another state with S11 for my conference and it went without incident, at least to my knowledge. N/BPDxh filled up my inbox with rants and threatened the PC again, as well as me and my attorney.

He also wrote a weird email to my boss. All it said in the subject line was:

Remarkably not interested in the truth.

My boss thinks I should tell my L about this, but I don't see the point. It will just cost me money and right now, as it stands, I don't have money to retain her for whatever comes next anyway. An email to my boss seems like small beans compared to everything else.

N/BPDx's psych eval is done, and the PC is now going through it. N/BPDx wrote to say he was going to take S11 to a conference in June, and claimed two weeks of vacation (per Order 1 as he refers to it). No one has responded to him.

I don't really know what to do at this point. The schedule is favorable right now -- N/BPDx sees S11 4 hours Sat, and 4 hours Sun. No looming decisions need to be made. I am not flying to Canada so sole custody is not a pressing issue. There are no overnights. N/BPDxh has even taken MWF Skype time off the table. I must be battle weary, because things seem kinda chill given what could be happening.

When the PC makes a recommendation, it will probably trigger something from N/BPDx that will likely mean I need to retain my L again. I now owe the PC because we have spent above and beyond the retainer. I don't have 5K to throw at this just yet. Is it ok to just sit and wait?

Am I missing something?

[Matt]

I think usually it's best to get all the relevant information out on the table.  I would send the email to your lawyer with instructions to send it on to the PC and the other party's lawyer.  It should probably also be submitted to the court as evidence, if you go to trial.

Your lawyer shouldn't charge you for more than 1/4 of an hour to deal with this.

[livednlearned]

What line is N/BPDxh crossing by sending a creepy email to my boss?

I know he crossed a line, but legally is there anything? Lots of members have exes who go on distortion campaigns and there seems to be no recourse. Just trying to figure out how this is different.

Or maybe it just pounds the nail in deeper? So the PC has yet another example of his disordered behavior?

[DreamGirl]

I wouldn't forward it.

I don't know how it's necessarily relevant or that anyone needs to be privy to it.

He's already proven that he's off kilter.

If it continues - I might address it then.

Personally, I'd save the money.

[stuckinbetween]

Dear LnL,

NPD's cannot stand it if they aren't getting enough attention.  Don't give him the satisfaction.  It'll only encourage him.  I'd carry the paperwork and let the rest go.  He's looking like a maniac.  They honestly lack the ability to see how they come across, which is their Achilles Heel and part of their ultimate undoing.  Document, explain it to your son and let it go, showing that you are going on with your life just fine.  You've done enough.  He's painting his own picture for all to see.

I know first hand what these maniacs do to our financial health, but how has this impacted your physical well being?  Are you OK?

Caring about you---

Stuckin between

[tog]

I think I would ignore too, just save it as documentation. Personally, I would ask my boss to send him a firmly worded email stating that he does not wish to hear anything more from him and will consider it harassment if he does, or something to that effect.

[livednlearned]

Dear LnL,

NPD's cannot stand it if they aren't getting enough attention.  Don't give him the satisfaction.  It'll only encourage him.  I'd carry the paperwork and let the rest go.  He's looking like a maniac.  They honestly lack the ability to see how they come across, which is their Achilles Heel and part of their ultimate undoing.  Document, explain it to your son and let it go, showing that you are going on with your life just fine.  You've done enough.  He's painting his own picture for all to see.

I know first hand what these maniacs do to our financial health, but how has this impacted your physical well being?  Are you OK?

Caring about you---

Stuckin between

You're so right about the narcissism, thanks stuckinbetween. He might enjoy it if I make a fuss. My boss is an influential and public person, and he was always trying to get attention from her. 

I won't say anything to my son, tho. Trying to keep him out of it as much as I can so he can have a sorta normal childhood. It only stresses him out. He did tell me that I'm always reminding him to talk to his dad, and then his dad tells him I'm trying to prevent them from seeing each other. S11 seems to know that his dad lives in a different reality, and it just makes him roll his eyes.

[stuckinbetween]

I wouldn't even encourage your son to talk to your ex.  I stopped encouraging my dau to talk to her dad because I had to learn to trust her to know how much exposure to his toxins she could handle.  Not much right now, as it turns out.  NPDs aren't emotionally safe for kids.  So I shut up and act neutral about whether she talks to him or not.  Since I've started the neutrality stance, she opens up to me more about him.  I realize I was giving her mixed messages.  Dau could see how he'd treated me so why would I encourage her to expose herself to his poison?

Stuckinbetween

[livednlearned]

I wouldn't even encourage your son to talk to your ex.  I stopped encouraging my dau to talk to her dad because I had to learn to trust her to know how much exposure to his toxins she could handle.  Not much right now, as it turns out.  NPDs aren't emotionally safe for kids.  So I shut up and act neutral about whether she talks to him or not.  Since I've started the neutrality stance, she opens up to me more about him.  I realize I was giving her mixed messages.  Dau could see how he'd treated me so why would I encourage her to expose herself to his poison?

Stuckinbetween

Yeah, I get that. I did have to remind S11 to talk to his dad at their MWF nightly Skype calls, so he was referring to that (not knowing that I was following the court order).

It's exhausting, dealing with the psycho drama.