Quiet Borderlines... a special torture

[cookiecrumbled]

Hi Everyone -  hugs to everyone hurting -

I was wondering if I could hear from those of you who have significant others who are "quiet borderlines" - i.e., those who primarily used the silent treatment as the weapon of choice, rather than raging.  I am feeling a little disenfranchised simply b/c there seems to be such a presence of recycling attempts by the BPDs.  Mine simply vanished after a year and a half of dating (we are in our 40s).  He is a dentist, a great golfer, handsome, from a wonderful family, and had a happy childhood by all accounts.  I was the first person he dated after being married for 12 years and I don't believe he ever lied to me or cheated on me.  

Any advice would be appreciated from others on this board who, like me, must go through each day knowing they will probably never hear from or see their pwBPD again. We live in different parts of a big city and had no mutual friends.  His family tried to warn me in the beginning of our r/s in subtle, but now indisputable ways.  But when the mask came off - I lost the entire community of people I loved.  I think they were hoping that I was strong enough to get him to accept help.  And when I wasn't, they hung their heads and walked away.

I know so many other Nons think we are the lucky ones - the ones who were left and never thought of again.  But the silence... .  it is deafening.

Cookie  :'(

[Dave44]

110% agree. Being cut off/out of their life in every way shape and form with nothing but cold, loud deafening silence is nothing short of torturous. In my opinion, it is far worse than the raging, push pull alternative. At the very least with that type, there is some form of communication. With the disappearing act these types pull on us there simply is... .  nothing. How could someone do that? How?

[GustheDog]

I'm in this boat.

Not much else to say, cuz, well, she doesn't speak to me!

What I would like to know is whether anyone has dealt with a silent/waif type and received contact again at some point after a long period of NC.

And, a little off subject, but I'm curious - I keep hearing about recycle attempts where the BPD (after what could be months or even years) gets in touch again and acts like nothing ever went wrong.  From the Non's perspective, and assuming you *want* a recycle, how can you just pick up where you left off without either of you ever mentioning the mess they created in your life?

[Diana82]

Hey onetoughcookie

I'm sorry you experienced this. It's so hurtful   :'(

I am in the same boat. My exBPD gf left me for dead after we had an argument.

We had been in a serious relationship for 3 years and she told me to "leave her alone". I tried to reconcile, call her etc... but it was all ignored. She even changed her phone number which was very insulting.

She didn't even respond about returning my belongings (after several polite requests). To me it's normal if you dump someone- to give them their stuff back... it's only decent.

I heard nothing. And it's been 5.5 months.

I have been completely cut off as if I am nothing. All of our special times have been forgotten. She is unable to even be civil... or say one word to me.

I'd hate to think if we had moved in together what would have happened. It was a nightmare trying to get my stuff back anyway! I had to ask her flatmate because she refused to even tell me where it was or if she can drop it off to me.

Thing is... she hasn't disappeared. She lives around the block from me... I just don't see her or hear from her. The silence has been deafening...

I never knew my ex was the 'silent treatment' type though. She was always very assertive and direct... and quite a snappy person.

[GreenMango]

Quiet or Loud... .  poor relationship coping skills like the Silent Treatment don't make for a healthy relationship.  The Hater Phase can come as a shock. 

This is the evolution of a relationship of this kind if you've gone through one cycle or ten.

Maybe a question to ask ourselves is would you want this for your life?

Love: The Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor.

In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as she "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her."

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.

Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is in her mind it is not what you perceive to be happening.


Love: The Clinger Phase

Once she has successfully candied her hook with your adoration, she will weld it into place by “reeling in” your attention and concern. Her intense interest in you will subtly transform over time. She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her. This is when you start to notice “something”. Your thoughts, feelings and ideas fascinate her, but more so when they focus on her. You can tell when this happens because you can feel her "perk-up" emotionally whenever your attention focuses upon her feelings and issues. Those moments can emotionally hook your compassion more deeply into her, because that is when she will treat you well - tenderly.

It’s often here, you begin to confuse your empathy with love, and you believe you're in love with her. Especially if your instinct is strong and rescuing is at the heart of your "code." Following that code results in the most common excuse I hear as a therapist, as to why many men stay with borderline women, "... .  But I love her!" Adult love is built on mutual interest, care and respect - not on one-way emotional rescues. And mothering is for kids. Not grown men.

But, if like King Priam, you do fall prey to this Trojan Horse and let her inside your city gates, the first Berserker to leave the horse will be the devious Clinger. A master at strengthening her control through empathy, she is brilliant at eliciting sympathy and identifying those most likely to provide it-like the steady-tempered and tenderhearted.

The world ails her. Physical complaints are common. Her back hurts. Her head aches. Peculiar pains of all sorts come and go like invisible, malignant companions. If you track their appearance, though, you may see a pattern of occurrence connected to the waning or waxing of your attentions. Her complaints are ways of saying, "don't leave me. Save me!" And Her maladies are not simply physical. Her feelings ail her too.

She is depressed or anxious, detached and indifferent or vulnerable and hypersensitive. She can swing from elated agitation to mournful gloom at the blink of an eye. Watching the erratic changes in her moods is like tracking the needle on a Richter-scale chart at the site of an active volcano, and you never know which flick of the needle will predict the big explosion.

But after every emotional Vesuvius she pleads for your mercy. And if she has imbedded her guilt-hooks deep enough into your conscientious nature, you will stay around and continue tracking this volcanic earthquake, caught in the illusion that you can discover how to stop Vesuvius before she blows again. But, in reality, staying around this cauldron of emotional unpredictability is pointless. Every effort to understand or help this type of woman is an excruciatingly pointless exercise in emotional rescue.

It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional - rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It's like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you'll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory "event horizon." But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colors.

Sex will be incredible. She will be instinctually tuned in to reading your needs. It will seem wonderful - for a while.

The intensity of her erotic passion can sweep you away, but her motive is double-edged. One side of it comes from the instinctually built-in, turbulent emotionality of her disorder. Intensity is her trump-card.

But the other side of her is driven by an equally instinctually and concentrated need to control you. The sexual experiences, while imposing, are motivated from a desire to dominate you, not please you. Her erotic intensity will be there in a cunning way tailored so you will not readily perceive it.

“I love you” means – “I need you to love me”. “That was the best ever for me” means – tell me “it was the best ever for you”. Show me that I have you.


Love: The Hater Phase

Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion. But when that part makes it's first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What gives this rage its characteristically borderline flavor is that it is very difficult for someone witnessing it to know what triggered it in reality. But that is its primary identifying clue: the actual rage-trigger is difficult for you to see. But in the Borderline's mind it always seems to be very clear. To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous. It all serves to break you down over time. Your self esteem melts away. You change and alter your behavior in hopes of returning to the “Clinger Stage”. And periodically you will, but only to cycle back to the hater when you least expect it, possibly on her birthday, or your anniversary.

Borderline Personality Disorder is a serious mental illness.

[HarmKrakow]

Quiet or Loud... .  poor relationship coping skills like the Silent Treatment don't make for a healthy relationship.  The Hater Phase can come as a shock. 

This is the evolution of a relationship of this kind if you've gone through one cycle or ten.

Maybe a question to ask ourselves is would you want this for your life?

Love: The Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor.

In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as she "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her."

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.

Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is in her mind it is not what you perceive to be happening.


Love: The Clinger Phase

Once she has successfully candied her hook with your adoration, she will weld it into place by “reeling in” your attention and concern. Her intense interest in you will subtly transform over time. She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her. This is when you start to notice “something”. Your thoughts, feelings and ideas fascinate her, but more so when they focus on her. You can tell when this happens because you can feel her "perk-up" emotionally whenever your attention focuses upon her feelings and issues. Those moments can emotionally hook your compassion more deeply into her, because that is when she will treat you well - tenderly.

It’s often here, you begin to confuse your empathy with love, and you believe you're in love with her. Especially if your instinct is strong and rescuing is at the heart of your "code." Following that code results in the most common excuse I hear as a therapist, as to why many men stay with borderline women, "... .  But I love her!" Adult love is built on mutual interest, care and respect - not on one-way emotional rescues. And mothering is for kids. Not grown men.

But, if like King Priam, you do fall prey to this Trojan Horse and let her inside your city gates, the first Berserker to leave the horse will be the devious Clinger. A master at strengthening her control through empathy, she is brilliant at eliciting sympathy and identifying those most likely to provide it-like the steady-tempered and tenderhearted.

The world ails her. Physical complaints are common. Her back hurts. Her head aches. Peculiar pains of all sorts come and go like invisible, malignant companions. If you track their appearance, though, you may see a pattern of occurrence connected to the waning or waxing of your attentions. Her complaints are ways of saying, "don't leave me. Save me!" And Her maladies are not simply physical. Her feelings ail her too.

She is depressed or anxious, detached and indifferent or vulnerable and hypersensitive. She can swing from elated agitation to mournful gloom at the blink of an eye. Watching the erratic changes in her moods is like tracking the needle on a Richter-scale chart at the site of an active volcano, and you never know which flick of the needle will predict the big explosion.

But after every emotional Vesuvius she pleads for your mercy. And if she has imbedded her guilt-hooks deep enough into your conscientious nature, you will stay around and continue tracking this volcanic earthquake, caught in the illusion that you can discover how to stop Vesuvius before she blows again. But, in reality, staying around this cauldron of emotional unpredictability is pointless. Every effort to understand or help this type of woman is an excruciatingly pointless exercise in emotional rescue.

It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional - rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It's like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you'll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory "event horizon." But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colors.

Sex will be incredible. She will be instinctually tuned in to reading your needs. It will seem wonderful - for a while.

The intensity of her erotic passion can sweep you away, but her motive is double-edged. One side of it comes from the instinctually built-in, turbulent emotionality of her disorder. Intensity is her trump-card.

But the other side of her is driven by an equally instinctually and concentrated need to control you. The sexual experiences, while imposing, are motivated from a desire to dominate you, not please you. Her erotic intensity will be there in a cunning way tailored so you will not readily perceive it.

“I love you” means – “I need you to love me”. “That was the best ever for me” means – tell me “it was the best ever for you”. Show me that I have you.


Love: The Hater Phase

Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion. But when that part makes it's first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What gives this rage its characteristically borderline flavor is that it is very difficult for someone witnessing it to know what triggered it in reality. But that is its primary identifying clue: the actual rage-trigger is difficult for you to see. But in the Borderline's mind it always seems to be very clear. To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous. It all serves to break you down over time. Your self esteem melts away. You change and alter your behavior in hopes of returning to the “Clinger Stage”. And periodically you will, but only to cycle back to the hater when you least expect it, possibly on her birthday, or your anniversary.

Borderline Personality Disorder is a serious mental illness.

Always confronting to see my relationship written so bluntly  . Everytime I read that part, everytime I wonder, What the heck have i gotten myself into as i'm currently receiving the hatred treatment from her.

[nylonsquid]

Green Mango-

Great post on the stages of a BPD relationship! I read it with a big smile on my face seeing how I was part of this crazy-making and how serious I took the drama. Its absurdity, though can be crushing, is really comedic. Mostly how I was wrapped up in it. I loved how RIGHT the post is. What a perspective! I think I am so prone to pwBPD because of my personality type. I have to be careful.

[Thyrsos]

I was also left for dead. She even said it... .  

Have'nt heard a thing in over 3 months, I think it's for the best.

All she did was lie and cheat anyway, I refuse to be treated like that.

She has obvious NPD traits so I 'm sure I'll never hear from her again. Better that way.

[AllyCat7]

Onetoughcookie, you read my mind! I was thinking of starting a thread for those of us who are dealing/have dealt with the quiet ones/internalizers. It seems the internalizers are in the minority (or maybe people just write them of as being flakes or players and don't realize what they were dealing with).

Interesting, and sadly, enough, I've dated both types... back to back! And I have to agree that the quiet type is far worse. At least with my rager bf, I ALWAYS knew where I stood with him. He was always upfront, honest to a fault, and always in touch with me (a little too in touch, but better than the opposite). I was bad at setting boundaries and teaching him how to back off, but I prefer that than someone who disappears constantly with no explanation or at the slightest provocation. It leaves a big, empty void, tons of unanswered questions, and a lot of anxiety and confusion... .  not to mention hurt and resentment. Also, my quiet one lies like a rug, is non-confrontational to a fault and much less trustworthy. He is also much more afraid of rejection, which causes very inconsistent behavior on his part a LOT of misunderstandings. Oh he also talks to LOTS of girls behind my back. Much less faithful than the rager one. He runs to the other girls when he's overwhelmed by us or if he's pissed at me.

The first nine months when he was trying to win me over, he was sweet as pie, so attentive, attentive, loving. But once he had me, he started to back off and do the push/pull. Once he started doing this and I began to call him out on it, he would shut down on me and go quiet. He would come back around as if nothing happened or he would expect me to come to him and soothe him and not bring any of our issues up. I did this for an additional year. When he initially started pulling away, he used the "maybe we should just be friends line", but I did not accept it. Then I used it on him when I got word of him talking to other girls behind my back (and not just talking as friends, but talking marriage and all of that). He froze until I had to reach out to him and make him feel better (as if I was the bad guy... .  so silly). He's pulled the "let's be friends" thing a few more times since then, after which he comes back after a week, and I've pulled the "You're talking to other girls so let's be friends." thing a couple times, after which I've come back. The last time I did it in September, I took a lot longer to come back around and "win him back" than I normally do because I wasn't quite sure if I still wanted it. I think that hit him hard and he never fully forgave me for that. We got back together, but I felt a lot of resentment and there was a LOT of distance and longer periods of silent treatment. So even though I was painted black and he resented me, he was keeping me around on the side. It was very painful (not to mention demoralizing), especially as I was still putting my all in and trying with him.

I began to really lose my patience around the holidays. He was coming back around but also flaking majorly on me as well. So I started asserting myself. I told him I was tired of the silent treatments and distance and that he might as well break up with me if he wanted to continue doing that to me. That scared him and he froze for a week, after which he called me and said we're "just friends" (typical bull he pulls when he feels pressured). But a week later he tries to reel me back in. He adds me on FB (I deleted him a year ago). I accept his friend request and noticed lots of girls on his page (which was always the case and one of our main issues), but there was one girl in particular who was all over his stuff and I knew for a fact he was talking to her a lot more than he was talking to me in recent months because she lives in a part of the country that he started mentioning he'd like to relocate to (one of the things he does is follow women he's in love with to where they live, so I connected the dots there). I called him out on it (without getting specific), but also told him if he still wanted to work things out between us, I'd still be up for it. He immediately deleted me from his page and pulled some other silly FB antics. He was basically dysregulated due to the email and was pushing me away.

I didn't react to that, but I sent him an email a few days later apologizing for how my email came across and telling him I understand where things stood with us. He replied in kind and I have not heard from him since. During the beginning of last week, though, I noticed he re-engaged another one of the girls he rotates around and I'd about had it when I noticed that (he used to do that whenever we would have arguments). Instead of dealing with me, he'd replace me. Anyway, I don't think things with them have gone well because he has been popping up  on our mutual friends' FB pages since then (I think to get my attention), but I haven't acknowledged him. I don't want to encourage FB games. I'd rather he contact me directly if he wants to talk or reconcile.

We are at a standstill now with no one making direct contact. I fear that if I don't he will move along for good. But I'm tired of being the one to always make amends, even if it's not my fault. I've been doing it for too long and I think it's enabled him. I have a feeling if I don't step up and do it this time, he won't do it either, and we'll be done for good. Part of me wants that and part of me doesn't. I'm so torn. I just need to focus on myself right now and I need space, but if there is a chance for us, I know that too much space will lead to him viewing me as abandoning him. I don't know what to do.

Anyway, that's my story in a nutshell. I wonder if yours is similar.

Btw, to answer Gus, I don't know that I have been re-cycled per se, as the longest we have been NC was 1.5 weeks. We did have a 1.5 month break-up once, but we still remained in touch during that period. We have never gone too long without contact because we keep coming back to each other. But if this current break spans a long time, then I guess that will be a true test to see whether the silent ones do come back after long breaks. We'll see!

[almost789]

Mines the quite type too. He never once called me a name or yelled. With these types are so hard to figue out they are BPD in the beginning because they dont have this crazy raging. If mine doesnt like something, he wont talk, he just vanishes completely. We hear nothing, despite our attempts to make contact. They completely ignore. Its like their dead, or were dead to them. The first time mine did this was for no reason at all, he just freaked and vanished. I was so hurt. I dont think i have ever felt this type of hurt in my whole life. Then he came back after close to three weeks and i was so relieved, i promised to believe his lie and just move on together and promised him id just basically sweep in under the rug. The second time came after i broke with him. I wanted to talk, he shut off! Dndt hear from him for 2.5 months. Now its been like once a month or so well make contact, but hes not the same at all. I keep wanting to see that person i used to know and i dont think he existed. He can barely communicate with me. Still, get silent treatment for weeks and weeks on end. I do wish hed yell at me or something. Ive read silent treatment is THE WORST form of emotional abuse. I know its done alot od damage to me.

[Clearmind]

Quiet Borderlines do rage... .  inward... at themselves. Due to self loathing and a tremendous amount of shame 'they' retreat - avoid - as GreenMango pointed out this is a sign of poor relationship and coping skills. It's also a form of passive aggression. Your partner does not have the skills to articulate emotions - silent treatment is safe.

It does lead to zero closure for you! We need to find closure on our own. This comes with time and digging deep as to why we missed the red flags.

Great article/video on schemas and the five faces of a Boderline: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=128784.0.

Silent treatment is a maladaptive coping skill developed to avoid.

This is not about you and has more to do with him not wanting to face the shame.

[sadderbutwiser]

Mine raged - but after one particularly bad rage in the middle of the night - he woke me from my sleep - I asked him to leave as I thought there was the potential for violence.

He returned the next morning, crying and pleading for one more chance - but because I was shocked and upset (the abuse had been intensley personal and horrible) I asked him to leave me alone for the day - we would speak the next. Then he ignored my calls - I haven' t seen or heard from him for 5 months now.

5 weeks after our break up - he started dating someone he asked a friend to set him up with - a blind date - and moved in with her 8 weeks later.

I know how it feels - no closure - the quick rebound after i was "the love of his life" only the same day of the night attack. I felt used, disgarded, duped - all that - but education and enlightenment has led me to beleive it was the "dump her before she dumps me" abandonment of the classic BPD. He knew he had taken the abuse too far. Still - it hurts and is bewildering - like no ordinary break up.

Take care x

[SarahinMA]

Thanks Clearmind.  Sometimes I struggle trying to figure out if my ex was more "Quiet Narcissist" or "Quiet Borderline".  I think he was more of the latter.  He put himself down all the time, but he never raised his voice or raged at me.  He would just use very subtle verbal abuse (until the end when he outright told me over text that I was basically a horrible person).  Extremely passive aggressive and just an overall weak person.  He would say something upsetting to me and withdraw leaving me basically arguing with myself.  When he finally pulled the plug, he never looked back.  Sometimes he would pop back up after months of no contact and wonder why I was confused, upset, and angry with him.  If I tried to initiate polite conversation- just like a "hello" "how's work?" "how's your family?" then it was clear that I wasn't over him and still obsessed with him (in his mind and what he communicated to his friends).  Now, he avoids me at all costs and we have been back in no contact for 3 months now. 

[Diana82]

random question and this may seem odd...

But if it's your EX who is giving you the silent treatment... refusing to provide more explanation for their hasty break up decision, refusing to talk to you about your belongings and where they are...

and getting their flat mate friend to call you to abuse you  on the phone and tell you that your behaviour is 'unacceptable' when you've just asked for your stuff back...

is this still classified as emotionally abusive? Given we are no longer WITH them?

Obviously this treatment is rubbish... but my ex never gave me the silent treatment during the relationship.

[almost789]

Mine was like yours Sarah. I too struggle if he is more of a narcissist than BPD. But since he doesn't have the "grandiosity" thinking that he is so great. He doesn't think this at all. They say that male BPD's tend to have more narcissistic traits than the women BPD's. The silent treatment IS passive aggresive behavior. After several weeks of silent treatment after me telling him he was projecting on me, he's sending me "subliminal" messages. This is what he does usually to draw me back in, weird emails in the inbox, hang up calls and other wierd things that don't normally happen to me. I usually initiate contact at that point and he'll speak some. I'm done with that now because I can't take the passive aggressive behavior. Its something I actually can not stand. When I met him he did not come across as passive aggressive at all and presented the complete opposite. He presented as assertive confident and healthy. Part of the deception , I guess. Then he changed completely to this passive aggressive weak man. I can't have a relationship with a passive aggresssive silent treatment giver.

[Maryiscontrary]

Guys please help me. What is the difference between NC and passive agressive silent treatment?

I mean, if we go NC, it is oftentimes construed as a healthy move. If they go NC, it is passive agressive emotional abuse.

Please help with this.

[TheDude]

Guys please help me. What is the difference between NC and passive agressive silent treatment?

My personal impression of the difference is whether or not the relationship is active. The 'silent treatment' is really more a form of punishment within an active relationship, while "NC" is (ideally) a concept to provide the separation and detachment necessary for healing. If broken up or "off again", an ex being "NC" is actually doing both of you a favor.

[Maryiscontrary]

Well put.

[almost789]

Maryiscontrary,

I agree with TheDude. If you are actively in a relationship and the person won't speak to you. That's silent treatment. If you are currently broken up. Technically, it could be considered NC I suppose. However NC is not usually indicated in normal healthy break ups. I've never had a break up in which me or my bf said lets go NC. I personally think its different from what I am used to. In my current case, we broke up and both of us maintained NC for several weeks. However, after recyling multiple times in which my exBPDbf would tell me he wanted to maintain the relationship and then get mad at something and just disappear without warning and go silent for weeks. Thats not normal. Thats silent treatment. Mature healthy people will end the relationship if they're not happy. They will end it and not ask to maintain the relationship and then run off like a child in a tantrum when they don't get their way.

[OTH]

If NC is done as a punishment it is emotional abuse (the silent treatment). If NC is done to create enough space to begin to detach it can be helpful. It is an emergency measure when we have hit the wall emotionallly and need space to heal. It shouldn't be done as punishment. I used it myself for short periods at the beginning but mostly went LC.

Guys please help me. What is the difference between NC and passive agressive silent treatment?

I mean, if we go NC, it is oftentimes construed as a healthy move. If they go NC, it is passive agressive emotional abuse.

Please help with this.

[Maryiscontrary]

I went NC when my husband fled out of state without telling me, and refused to cooperate for a non contested divorce, after he initially agreed to it.

As I have said before, this is attachment issues plus some sort of pervasive psychotic disorder.

I cannot have a conversation with any sort of meeting of the minds for about a year. He is paranoid and feels persecuted. So I went NC because no sort of meaningful communication is possible. lawyer is handling the case.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread... .  just wanted to clarify.

[almost789]

I don't see your situation as silent treatment. Your husband fled the state without telling you. That to me is a break in the relationship, in which you are no longer obligated to maintain emotional support. You chose NC for your sanity. These people that use silent treatment, in most cases I do think it is punishment. It is punishment from a person who has such poor coping skills they cannot relate or assert or communicate their anger or feelings at you so the only thing they know to do is go silent on you. They usually suffered the same emotional abuse from their parents and so this is the only way they know how to relate. This is where people come in and say, they don't do it intentionally. Because in truth, this is all they know, its the only way they learned to relate. Its their brain wiring.

[Maryiscontrary]

Well, but the person who is on the receiving end may not know If this is punishment or a healing tactic.

For instance, my brother, who lied about the circumstances when he got my sick husband out of the mental hospital and put my life in jeopardy when he dumped him in my lap, has cut off all contact with me when I attempted to discussed this with him.

This is chicken~ cowardice that he learned from FOO. This isn't healing. He risked my life and his attorney bar card and he is too shamed to own upto it. This is abuse.

When I went NC with my ex, I could not communicate with him, after trying every suggested method available on this board. This is healing.

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks much for the clarification. This is a huge concept for us to understand.

[almost789]

Marycontrary, I know it can get blurry sometimes. Especially in your situations, but I think you have clarified that in your last post and I agree with you.

[AllyCat7]

I can't have a relationship with a passive aggresssive silent treatment giver.

I love this line

Sounds like we are all in the same boat. And glad I'm not alone in having dealt with the excruciating pain of silent treatment. Relationships with silent BPDs make you feel lonelier than when you are by yourself. Makes you wonder, wth is the point the relationship then? That's where I'm at right about now.

[almost789]

Definitely can relate to being more lonely after I got into a relationship with him than before! I mean the first few months were great. But those weeks of abandonment suck and just repeat themselves over and over again.

[TheDude]

When we've been "on again", there hasn't been any 'silent treatment' in the obvious sense, but a sudden detachment - or subtle (but still obvious and frustrating) pushing away. She'll move to the love seat (as opposed where we always are on the sofa), stop the affection (no holding hands or anything), and will either come to bed 3-4 hours later than usual or not at all. This, of course, is in addition to the 'painting black' and other fun stuff that comes with the "downward spiral" phases.

Come to think of it, I think I'd almost rather she had just went silent altogether for a while instead... .  

[trouble11]

Mine too was quiet.  Sorry for those of you with ragers. but I think quiet is worse.  We never fought, never argued, we had a wonderful weekends before he left we golfed and went to dinner at his mothers.  In hind sight he had been acting shady with his phone and I later found out he had been planning to recycle an ex.  That didn't work out for him and two days after that ended he met his new victim on E-Harmony and moved in with her within two weeks.  Likes to occasionally text me and let me know how well he is doing. LOL  That said, I think it would have been easier to accept had there been arguments and fights.

[bb12]

Whether still in the r/s or not, if someone ignores your plea to chat it out or clarify something, it is the silent treatment and cruel.

You spend 3 years in someone's bed and sharing the most intimate of life's moments, and then without warning you are 'emotionally murdered' and completely invalidated with this childish technique... .  and I believe it is the single nastiest thing that could happen to a person.

One can't help but try to restore the r/s to a former time... .  anything is better than silence. So we plead and beg and apologise for things we don't comprehend. But to no avail.

It is the ultimate mindf&*k with the fall from the pedastal long and hard.

It took me a solid 9 months to regain a semblance of self. And how I held down a job is beyond me. My waking thought was him, will he talk to me today. And then the shame... .  as you summon the strength to try and not care... .  try to be silent back. But you cave and it goes in cycles. I could last 5 - 6 weeks then in a moment of weakness call or text. Nothing. And then you rage... .  and confirm to them that you are the crazy one so they justify more silence.

It is looney tunes crazy making stuff.

And then one day, the pain has faded a bit more. You read about BPD. And it becomes less about you. And some self-esteem comes back.

Obsession only stems from poor coping mechanisms ourselves. We ruminate and get stuck in our head to avoid the painful realities of our lives. When we go to our feelings and not our thoughts, we begin to heal. When we stop struggling against our feelings and accept them, we begin to heal. And for me, those feelings are: I am lonely; there's something wrong with me; I am bad at holding onto love; I am worthless.

So the examination of those feelings of insecurity and defectiveness were brought out into the light and challenged. And I discovered where they came from and each day I decide that they are not right. I tell them to go away and I go on with my day making conscious adult decisions instead of reacting our of 'broken inner child' mode.

And it gets better

Now I don't want my ex to call. I know without a doubt that I would not take his call even if he did ring.

My heart would not race. I have gotten to a very dismissive stance about him and the r/ship and the most painful year of my life.

Lesson learned. But now what?

bb12

[tailspin]

 

My ex was also a quiet borderline and it does make everything more complex because communication ceases to exist.  My ex would go off the grid and I saw this as my cue to try harder to make everything better just like all of you; it's humiliating and ego destroying.

I agree the silent treatment originates in their Family of Origin (FOO) and is emotionally cruel.  Imagine growing up like this; having your mother punish and manipulate you by treating you as if you don't exist.  The pain you feel is the same pain they have felt most of their lives. Their pain and anger is projected onto you to ease their own complete and utter sense of worthlessness.  It is an emotional horror story.  However, sometimes considering the source of our pain makes it easier to let it go. 

And to some extent you may have felt something similar in your own FOO and may explain why the story with your ex seemed so familiar and comfortable; we often try to re-write the past and change the script to make a happier ending.  But the script is within your power to change; you don't need the same dysfunctional supporting cast anymore. 

Your ex will always be a victim without ever knowing why but you can choose to be bigger than what has happened to you.  You can choose you.

tailspin

[Beenreplaced]

It never ceases to amaze me as to just how similar our stories are.  Basically the same script. Mine left me abruptly too, actually after a nice dinner.  We had been togther for six years.  He raged so terribly, the hater phase in its full glory.  I had no idea he could be so mean, hurtful and hateful.  I was devastated, so much so I could not get out of bed the next morning.  Of course, like most people here, mine quickly replaced me and hasn't looked back since.  I did try reaching out after a year to just try and get some closure as we were friends for years first.  I got no answer, nothing even after a year.  Their leaving us is like being in a hit and run accident.  We are hurting so badly and they are gone without a moment's consideration for the carnage they leave behind... .  brutal.

What I try to keep in mind is that we need to expect people who treat us so terribly to continue to do so. He took my voice and only allowed communication on his terms.  I now know that I was used to this from my FOO.  I also now realize that I will never allow anyone to treat me like this again.

BR

[Randi Kreger]

<< Thanks Clearmind.  Sometimes I struggle trying to figure out if my ex was more "Quiet Narcissist" or "Quiet Borderline".>>People can be both

[anker]

a person going nc for space and healing usually alerts the other person in done way, by ending the relationship in a non ambiguous way, by asking for no contact, and by responding at least once with politeness.

someone giving a silent treatment will imply that the relationship is active, will ignore requests for clarification, and will not end a relationship before becoming distant.

ask yourself what you would do if you needed to go nocontact for your own piece of mind. how would you begin? would you do this in the middle an argument, after asking someone for something? would you go ileyou can'tnt without warning, on someone you intended to stay involved with?

probably not -in fact, if you go nc it's difficult! it's hard not to tall to someone you love, right?

now look at the situation with silent treatment. has that person ended the relationship? yes? that's nc. no? that's punishment, passive abuse. neglect

you can't force someone to contact you. at all. making those attempts is stalking. it makes you the bad guy. the only proper response to silent treatment is total withdrawal from that relationship.

i was neglected and a victim of passive abuse as a child. I'm currently nc with my parents because of that. I've been on a few relationships where silent treatment happened to me. I've learned, and i no longer get or array involved with people like that... .  it's the hardest abuse to deal with because the only way you can take your own power back is to walk away

trust me, they want you to chase, not walk away. if you chase them, they've "won", whether or not the relationship resumes our continues

[GustheDog]

trust me, they want you to chase, not walk away. if you chase them, they've "won", whether or not the relationship resumes our continues

Assuming they're not also NPD, what's the satisfaction for them in "winning"?

[nylonsquid]

trust me, they want you to chase, not walk away. if you chase them, they've "won", whether or not the relationship resumes our continues

Assuming they're not also NPD, what's the satisfaction for them in "winning"?

Not being abandoned.

[Dave44]

[/quote]

trust me, they want you to chase, not walk away. if you chase them, they've "won", whether or not the relationship resumes our continues

BS. There's plenty of people on here that have been dumped and completely shut out in every way shape and form with the NC never to be heard from their ex again. I'm one of them and trust me, they don't want to be chased. They want absolutely nothing to do with you. Their done and as far as they're concerned you no longer even exist on planet earth. I WISH my ex wanted to be "chased"... .  

[findingmyselfagain]

"Confusing" is the best way to describe my r/s with a likely Waif/Hermit. All the romantic highs one minute and then shaming and guilting me the next. Which one was it? I've heard from several people who knew her at various stages of the r/s. They all found her relationships to be EXTREME and she never could admit any kind of fault at all. They were all surprised at how fast she fell for me. They're all to this day really puzzled as to how things ended as abruptly as they did. She was actually very complimentary of me and pretty much told everyone I was fantastic. I wondered what exactly she told people about me, b/c I was a pretty darn good mate. I just don't think she has any idea or ability to handle emotions or intimacy. The abrupt ending the week of our wedding shower understandably was very shocking to me. The relationship seemed to be progressing until it came to a grinding, screeching halt, so I was understandably very much in shock and wondering.

Our L/C afterwards was also confusing. Sometimes I'd be ignored for months, and then sometimes she'd be somewhat friendly, and then other times she'd go into a rage. I've been NC since last July after realizing our C could never be productive. Sometimes I wonder if she'll contact me and how it'll come, but I believe it's highly unlikely. She is too caught up in her perception of her miserable life. Too many problems. Too focused on herself without truly focusing on herself... .  ?

Aren't we 100 times better off without them? Isn't it nice to not have to be a constant baby-sitter and care-taker and figure out wth is going on? The disorder is sad. I feel compassion for my ex b/c I saw just how broken she was, but I have to accept that she is responsible for getting healthy, or staying broken.

[almost789]

Randi,

Thank you.  I thought that they could be both. If a person doesn't have the "grandiosity" but has all the other characteristics of NPD, do you think they can be NPD? That is the one characteristic my pwBPD doesn't seem to have but sometimes I would swear he was a narcissist.

Findingmyself, yes your right we ARE better off with out them. Or we will be anyway.

[AllyCat7]

I just found this old bpdfamily thread about quiet borderlines. Lots to read in there... .  and it's all quite sad. Silent treatment is such excruciating abuse yet many people (especially borderlines) don't realize it (or maybe they do... .  who knows). Either way, glad we are bringing this to the forefront!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=149911.0;wap2

[Clearmind]

Not all people with NPD are Borderlines however all BPDs are narcissistic -they may not be diagnosed with NPD however they may have traits. Or be both!

Is it BPD or narcissism (NPD)?