Need some help with boundary setting...

[Depression = 72% of members]

My biggest niggle with my SO has been her lack of understanding of observing personal boundaries around both sexes, usually in social situations and certainly when she has been drinking. She is a very provocative woman and has no problem getting the attention of others and the prolonged kisses on the mouths, cuddling, touching and stroking all distress me somewhat. I have lost count of the number of times that she has been hit on, which often results in her going into emotional breakdown as she says that it was not what she wanted. It's like this over the top behaviour is her way of getting instant validation by having the attention of others as long as they stay within her game plan, ie, love me in this moment, but that's all I want. When she does this with people we know I have either had looks from the person concerned as if to say "erm, this is awkward!", or there are others who seemingly don't give a damn and play along with her.

So my initial boundary was that I wouldn't go out with her if she acted this way, which was ok b/c it removed me from the situation, but as she was always going out by herself before we were together, she quite happily goes out by herself and this behaviour continues. Word gets back to me with out me even trying - often she'll drop herself in it, the look in her eye when she realises what she has just said to me, but most of the time she lies and deceives - poorly, which she passes off as "trying to protect me".

So my question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could possibly try and put a boundary on this without having to go to the ultimate step bringing the r/s to an end?  I know she holds the same values as me when applied to to others, especially to me (the accusations come thick and fast, projection?, I guess so), but the contradictions within BPD allow her to act this way without any concern. I am battling my insecurities on this as there has been history of infidelity. Any thoughts?

[TigerEye]

My biggest niggle with my SO has been her lack of understanding of observing personal boundaries around both sexes, usually in social situations and certainly when she has been drinking. She is a very provocative woman and has no problem getting the attention of others and the prolonged kisses on the mouths, cuddling, touching and stroking all distress me somewhat. I have lost count of the number of times that she has been hit on, which often results in her going into emotional breakdown as she says that it was not what she wanted. It's like this over the top behaviour is her way of getting instant validation by having the attention of others as long as they stay within her game plan, ie, love me in this moment, but that's all I want. When she does this with people we know I have either had looks from the person concerned as if to say "erm, this is awkward!", or there are others who seemingly don't give a damn and play along with her.

So my initial boundary was that I wouldn't go out with her if she acted this way, which was ok b/c it removed me from the situation, but as she was always going out by herself before we were together, she quite happily goes out by herself and this behaviour continues. Word gets back to me with out me even trying - often she'll drop herself in it, the look in her eye when she realises what she has just said to me, but most of the time she lies and deceives - poorly, which she passes off as "trying to protect me".

So my question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could possibly try and put a boundary on this without having to go to the ultimate step bringing the r/s to an end?  I know she holds the same values as me when applied to to others, especially to me (the accusations come thick and fast, projection?, I guess so), but the contradictions within BPD allow her to act this way without any concern. I am battling my insecurities on this as there has been history of infidelity. Any thoughts?

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[yeeter]

Hi Tigereye,

how I could possibly try and put a boundary on this without having to go to the ultimate step bringing the r/s to an end? 

Ultimately, Im sorry to say, you cant.

Meaning, you cant control another persons behavior.  If she wants to go off and flirty and kiss other men, and sleep with them even... .  ultimately, there is nothing you can do about it.

At the same time it sounds like she doesnt want it to go any further than flirting and kissing.  As you suggest its likely highly validating to her to receive this attention.  The answer might be in finding some alternative ways in which she can feel validated.  But this is going to take her first recognizing it and then wanting to work on herself.  Likely the most direct way - you setting boundaries on what type of relationship you are willing to be in - will be the most motivating.  But doing so, you have to come to grips with what YOUR actions will be if there is no change.

You might review the DEARMAN method.  And clarify for your own self what you are willing to live with in the relationship and incorporating these boundaries into the message.

Do you have a T for yourself?

[laelle]

 

[TigerEye]

Thank you Yeeter, laelle

I'm feeling very low at the moment and am not sure what else to say. I think it's the realization that we have reached that fork in the road, but the idea of having to say goodbye to the one I love with all my heart, and her children to whom I have bonded so closely is breaking my heart.

I will go and look again at the DEARMAN as I have to have a conversation with her soon, we have not seen or spoken to each other for a week, that's not us. There are a lot of stressful things going on around her at the moment so I know she is not very receptive to MY feelings, timing is awful, but my values matter to me, they're who I am. I had to leave so as to not cause any further rages, she was picking up on me feeling down and I was getting all her stress put on to me.

As for T, it's not been that easy to get T here in the UK, I've been seeing a counselor sporadically but they don't seem able to go near the stuff I believe we should be exploring. I have looked at going private, but work and money are short at the moment.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm feeling very low at the moment and am not sure what else to say. I think it's the realization that we have reached that fork in the road, but the idea of having to say goodbye to the one I love with all my heart, and her children to whom I have bonded so closely is breaking my heart.

Sorry to hear how you are hurting. It must be terrible to be thinking of all you could lose.

I will go and look again at the DEARMAN as I have to have a conversation with her soon,

After you look at it, figure out what you are thinking of saying and ask for review here on the board.

[yeeter]

I'm feeling very low at the moment and am not sure what else to say. I think it's the realization that we have reached that fork in the road, but the idea of having to say goodbye to the one I love with all my heart, and her children to whom I have bonded so closely is breaking my heart.

Sorry to hear how you are hurting. It must be terrible to be thinking of all you could lose.

Rght there, a great example of how to validate!

[laelle]

  x 2

[Somewhere]

You can still be nice to the kids, but this one does not sound like "love of your life / keeper material".

Sounds like some prior guy(s?) already figured that out.

You seem like a nice, loving and want-to-be-loved person.  Pretty good thing in that, overall.  Every day you do not spend like this is one you could be spending with someone who can actually love you back. 

[Auspicious]

Yeeter is right. A boundary is a "rule" for you, not her. You can't make rules for her. You can make rules for you.

I'm not sure what I would do in this situation   I definitely would not be OK with her kissing other men. Ultimately, the power that you have is to decrease your involvement with her, when she does things that hurt you.

[Randi Kreger]

Hi Tigereye,

how I could possibly try and put a boundary on this without having to go to the ultimate step bringing the r/s to an end?

Ultimately, Im sorry to say, you cant.Meaning, you cant control another persons behavior.  If she wants to go off and flirty and kiss other men, and sleep with them even... .  ultimately, there is nothing you can do about it.At the same time it sounds like she doesnt want it to go any further than flirting and kissing.  As you suggest its likely highly validating to her to receive this attention.  The answer might be in finding some alternative ways in which she can feel validated.  But this is going to take her first recognizing it and then wanting to work on herself.  Likely the most direct way - you setting boundaries on what type of relationship you are willing to be in - will be the most motivating.  But doing so, you have to come to grips with what YOUR actions will be if there is no change.You might review the DEARMAN method.  And clarify for your own self what you are willing to live with in the relationship and incorporating these boundaries into the message.Do you have a T for yourself?

This is a great post and exactly what I would have said. I would only add that sometimes you have to go back to the basics. She is not going to change. Can you live with this or not, knowing she has already been unfaithful and you are insecure? And btw, there is nothing WRONG with you being insecure. You don't have to be perfect! You just need to know how to take extra special care of yourself and treat yourself with the same gentleness you would for anyone.

[TigerEye]

I didn't get time to post my DEARMAN approach as my SO arranged dinner out last night so we could have a chat. All went well as in we were able to talk calmly about our issues, but I didn't feel that she "got it" at all. I must admit that I don't feel that I got to express myself clearly enough, I was winging it a bit and as we were in a public place I did lose my bottle fearing a negative outburst.

I am going to revisit the subject again when we have time to ourselves. I think I have made my mind is made up as it came out last night that she has still been bed sharing (with another man, and separately with a bi sexual woman who makes no secret about what she wants to do with my SO - all whilst I was out of the country), something that was made clear to her some time ago that I did not feel was appropriate in a committed relationship.

Time to work on an exit plan I feel.

More later. Thanks everyone for your views, as ever, much appreciated.