the love we feel, what is it?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Why do we feel so attached to people we love? I still love my BPDex, I'm hoping that goes away in time, but what is it that makes us love them? I know she is bad news, she is physicaly attractive and seductive, but that's not why I love her. I know she mirrored me, and the lack of closure hurts. So what is it that keeps her in my mind? Any other girl that did the things she did would make me run a mile.

Even now after I know I can't 'save' her and the fake life she lived, I still love her.

I see beautiful woman about or on tv, and they just don't compare, even if they are more fun, sexier, smarter, without the problems, they just don't compare.

What is it that makes my heart still crave her?

[trevjim]

Why do we feel so attached to people we love? I still love my BPDex, I'm hoping that goes away in time, but what is it that makes us love them? I know she is bad news, she is physicaly attractive and seductive, but that's not why I love her. I know she mirrored me, and the lack of closure hurts. So what is it that keeps her in my mind? Any other girl that did the things she did would make me run a mile.

Even now after I know I can't 'save' her and the fake life she lived, I still love her.

I see beautiful woman about or on tv, and they just don't compare, even if they are more fun, sexier, smarter, without the problems, they just don't compare.

What is it that makes my heart still crave her?

[TheDude]

I don't know if you'll connect with this or not, but try doing a search for "Trauma Bonding". It rings a few bells for me... .  

[lockedout]

also look up "Stockholm Sydrome".

[Alvino]

I think there are several factors:

1) the mirroring combined with the intense emotional connection and passion typical for the first phase lets us believe that they are "the one" that makes us complete. The soul-mate. The sheer (unhealthy) intensity of the roller-coaster-ride gets us addicted to the extreme states and the adrenaline and dopamine rush.

2) it becomes an addiction. They have for a long time been the arbiters of our emotional states and we kept coming back for that "kick".

3) "normal" people feel somehow dull in comparison when compared to the searing edge of emotions we tend to feel with our BPD SOs.

Give it some time, it will wear off. Right now your mind still is addicted to the extreme states they put us through.

[Free One]

For me, it was time. The majority of our time together wasn't horrible (just the past 3-4 years). Yes, I can see how the BPD was present the whole time, but there was times it was good. I don't know how I could've committed myself to a 17 year relationship, marriage and family without loving him. I still do love him, and I probably always will on some level. It's possible to love someone and not want a relationship or contact with that person.

[mosaicbird]

What is it... .  For me, it's a promise that I made. I said that I would hold her in my heart forever. Stupid words, said when I was young, but I can't seem to get them out of me. It's like I burnt them - and her - into my soul.

[Cimbaruns]

Mosiacbird

Mine was the word "BELIEVE"... .  Even after TWO major breakups... .  and several recycle attempts... .  

I know I will always love her... .  but realize at last that I cannot EVER "fix" her... .  

The attachment is so so damaging... .  

[lockedout]

I agree with Free One. The nearly three year courtship was great. Things started getting a little tense after marriage and the signs were there; of course I had no idea what they were. Then we had our son and that kicked it up a notch. Last year was the only truly "bad" year. I hung on because I hoped that I would shape up and be more affectionate and communicative ie meet the demands she was making of me. I tried to be affectionate towards someone who would cower away when I tried to show affection and would keep her nose buried in her i-phone every time we were alone together. I always hoped that if I just "came around", I would earn back some reciprocity. going on the good memories, I was in denial. While calling my employee assistance program several times and lying to mental health professionals to avoid a mandatory 72 hours at the funny farm when they asked about suicidal thoughts I still thought that I was the problem and at fault for making her so unhappy.

I further what Free One said about the good times; when you are than beat down and in such a constant state of mental and emotional exhaustion that you'll believe anything - especially with the hopes that if you take it to heart that things will get better. My wife suggested the I had Asperger's because I "didn't show empathy" after all the "you're just like you fathers" got used up. I read several books and went and got tested actually believing I had it. I think if she suggested that I had Down's Syndrome, I would have gone for a chromosome test.

Mosaicnird, I can relate to what you say. I did the 40 day Love Dare. It can be very helpful in the absence of pathology and I'm sure it's saved a few marriages. BUT if you go in the website for it for support (it's difficult to get through under the best of circumstances), the self-appointed Jesus gurus will basically let you know that you're the one responsible for your marriage and that all you need to do is "have faith" and protect your sacred covenant.  A BPDer who finds out you are doing it will lurk over the process and use it against you.

[mosaicbird]

Mine was the word "BELIEVE"... .  Even after TWO major breakups... .  and several recycle attempts... .  

I know I will always love her... .  but realize at last that I cannot EVER "fix" her... .  

Oh, yes... .  That's another big one. My belief in her was stronger than my belief in anything else.

[dharmagems]

Codependency... .  entangled.

That is not love.

[rogerroger]

For me I think a huge factor was that all the ups and downs constitute a kind of intermittent reinforcement, which psychologists have shown is more effective than regular reinforcement. This backs up Alvino's comment about it being a kind of addiction. We got used to the flood of relief and positive feelings during the ups so that it doesn't feel normal to us anymore when we're out of that cycle. It used to be that we were down and depressed because (often) our BPD-partners were on a downswing. Now when we feel depressed we instinctively look to our ex-BPD partners to trigger the positive upswing feelings. But since they are not there, we feel their absence more acutely. At least that's one possible account of things.

[LuckyEscapee]

Perhaps I may love some of the wonderful aspects underneath the BPD, but I now accept I rarely saw those. I no longer love him. I cannot love someone who spewed hate at me till he brought me to my knees and yet doesn't believe he did anything wrong. That's not love. I don't even like him! I am working on ambivalence.

[charred]

I have heard all the standard explanations and they didn't cover it for me, so kept digging. What I found was disturbing, but does cover it.

My mom was cold and distant (her mother passed away when she was 5 and her father went off to ww2 shortly thereafter... so she was dumped on relatives till she was 13... leaving her pretty stoic). We moved every few years due to my dad's job, and I would lose all my friends each time, and my dad was NPD, so it just became easier to keep people at a distance, not have many friends and by college no one I was really close with.

Then I met my pwBPD, she was bouncy, exciting, and SEEMED to give me unconditional love... .  the kind a baby needs, the kind I really seemed to need... .  and I was smitten, and then she was clingy (didn't understand it at the time, planned on marrying her and having kids with her)... then she was hateful for a few weeks and dumped me without any explanation, took up with a neighbor of mine, and it left me suicidal/homicidal... .  so I ran, moved 1500 miles away.

Being dumped was like losing my mother... devastating, it left me depressed for years, was 3 yrs till I went out with anyone else and 5-7 till I was acting normal and probably 10 yrs before I was really past it and acting like it never happened... .  though I wasn't truly over it.

Then after 25 yrs... .  she contacted me and despite being married over 20 yrs... I responded, got a divorce and thought I would have my true love back. Many an r/s came and went, but this one was not like that, it was the attraction from the illusion of unconditional love... .  and that hooked the needy part of me that was "a lonely boy" and then via transference magic made it like she was in the role of my mother. We argued, I felt bad even trying to say no to her or defend myself... .  but she was an irrational tyrant... .  originally the sex was amazing, then it dried up and seemed weird somehow.  

So ... .  what would make a breakup seem like you were losing something crucial to you... .  like losing a parent? What would make sex get awkward. What would keep that spark alive and well for 25+ yrs... .  and get you to do patently irrational things to have the person back (if you lost your mom and could get her back would you get a divorce to get her back?) I can't come up with any other explanation that covers the intensity. I have dated and been dumped and dumped other people over the years... .  slept with about 25 gals in my life... .  so why was this one so different... the bond was like a primary one.

I think the Karpman drama triangle and trauma bonding explains the roles... .  but attachment theory... early bonding, explains the intensity... .  and it is some deep seated need in us, like the need for unconditional love we didn't get ... .  mom love or primary bonding... .  that turns that bond from normal to superglue ... .  then when the pwBPD's disorder shifts to clinging/hating... .  or we are dumped... the fireworks and hurt are of the magnitude you would expect losing your parent... .  the desperation is of a high magnitude... not like a normal breakup.

Not fond of that explanation... .  but unlike the platitudes I have heard... .  it rings uncomfortably true to me.

[happiness68]

Codependency... .  entangled.

That is not love.

I agree, I think it's some type of codependency.  It does pass if you give yourself time.  It just takes longer than a normal relationship, which means we think it's something stronger than what we've had with anyone else.  I personally believe it's the codependency issue though.

[Leaf]

I don't feel like codependency quite covers it. I had a previous relationship that was much more codependent than the one I had with my BPDxbf, but I didn't continue to feel a bond with my previous ex. Hardly ever thought about him.

The way Charred explains the BPD-trauma rings true to me. In a recent thread I described it like this: maybe on some level deep down I don't feel lovable and my BPDxbf's behaviour made me have to face that – because to be able to endure his behaviour I have to believe myself I'm lovable. Maybe I don't know how to deal with that buried feeling (like BPD's aren't capable of effectively dealing with their issues), so I want the person who brought this issue to light to solve it for me by showing me I'm lovable. He opened the box, he can close it. Something like that.

[charred]

I don't think codependency covers it ... .  my relationship with my exwife has been described as codependent and probably was... .  and I still care for her and she for me... but the intensity wasn't anything like the r/s with the pwBPD. I can remember falling in love with other people before the BPD gal, and even puppy love and none of them were the same. Being dumped by my exBPDgf was so devastating, it didn't make sense... .  I didn't care about anything else, left my city, my family, my business I had built up and felt broke inside. Known a number of people that have lost parents... .  and it is that kind of loss. Like I said, it was disturbing to me... but when I admit what I felt for my pwBPD... .  it was that she was on a pedestal that no normal person could be on... .  and she did so much to not be on one... .  in fact stuff that should have made me run for the hills, that I couldn't understand it. I have been in r/s with bad girls as well... and I cut them loose when they showed signs of being nuts. The one difference with her was the intensity and long lasting attraction, despite her acting horrible to me.

Believe me, I find it disturbing ... .  the thought that I can't get over someone that is hateful, disordered, has the emotional makeup of a three year old and duped me in to emotionally having her in the spot of my mother... .  yuck  

Reading on attachment theory is what led me to the conclusion, "Becoming Attached" gave background and then "A General Theory of Love"... .  kind of nailed it down, explaining how we use our mental model of what love is from out first primary relationships to choose who we fall for later... .  scary reading as it rings so true.

[karhues]

Mosiacbird

Mine was the word "BELIEVE"... .  Even after TWO major breakups... .  and several recycle attempts... .  

I know I will always love her... .  but realize at last that I cannot EVER "fix" her... .  

The attachment is so so damaging... .  

I completely agree with the above - I was married to mine for 20 years divorced and recycled 2 years past the divorce.  I will always love him but I know for own health I cannot be with him - he is toxic to the core.  He will walk away as soon as he as secured a supply and the second time he took my eldest daughter with him.  They will both drain the new source in time - that I know.  He contacts me every once in awhile - says he loves me on Valentine's Day - he has no boundaries what so ever.  He always gets what he wants - he's told me that repeatedly.  So as I wake each and every day alone and sad I thank God for my life - I know in time I will be fine.   I understand the illness but the void that is left in my heart is huge.  The first time it took at least a year to heal.  He left me a few weeks before Christmas and I still hurt - I think its because I made the mistake of giving him a second chance.  I often wonder what if I put on the rose colored glasses and just let the numerous affairs happen - act like I didn't care if he gave the silent treatment for 2 weeks then reappeared as if nothing had happened.  I know the answer is no - how could I look at myself in the mirror.  I tried that when I was married and it was awful.  So I knew I had to just let him and my daughter go to the new very willing source.  I must say what they do is heartless - but we already know that. 

[MakeItHappen]

I don't know if you'll connect with this or not, but try doing a search for "Trauma Bonding". It rings a few bells for me... .  

Dude, I DO abide. WOW, that sure hits home for me... .  Thanks.

[Traye]

Charred--  your explanation is a homerun for me.  I've been researching so much in that area of attachment theory and maternal bonding.  It all rings true for me.  Hard to accept.  Thanks for explaining it all so well.

[SarahinMA]

I think there are several factors:

1) the mirroring combined with the intense emotional connection and passion typical for the first phase lets us believe that they are "the one" that makes us complete. The soul-mate. The sheer (unhealthy) intensity of the roller-coaster-ride gets us addicted to the extreme states and the adrenaline and dopamine rush.

2) it becomes an addiction. They have for a long time been the arbiters of our emotional states and we kept coming back for that "kick".

3) "normal" people feel somehow dull in comparison when compared to the searing edge of emotions we tend to feel with our BPD SOs.

Give it some time, it will wear off. Right now your mind still is addicted to the extreme states they put us through.

This, for me.  I've dated others, but not felt that intensity.  It's like a double-edged sword, because I miss that even though I know it was unhealthy.  So that keeps me ruminating and missing the intense emotions and feelings I had with him.  I miss the person he pretended to be. 

[charred]

Charred--  your explanation is a homerun for me.  I've been researching so much in that area of attachment theory and maternal bonding.  It all rings true for me.  Hard to accept.  Thanks for explaining it all so well.

I don't want to accept it is true, that I gave up my business, family and hometown and moved unnecessarily, then got a divorce, lost my family and a second job the second go round... .  for a disordered woman that just acted like me, has the emotional makeup of a 3 yr old and I dealt with like the mom I never had... .  ICK, yuck, phooey. Will be in T for a while. The r/s with my exwife was a bit codependendant on my part... but way healthier... wish I had never met my exBPDgf.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Reading about trauma bonds has helped me a lot:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=77344.0

[Leaf]

Thanks Phoenix Rising! That's a very helpfull link

[blecker]

That question is like asking "What is fire?"

Certainly there are a plethora of very valid scientific explanations for fire but it the end it is hot and eats whatever is combustable.

That was my Love for her.

But like fire, the problem was really stopping it.

[seeking balance]

A loaded bond causes these relationships to "feel" deeper than they should.  Read posts by 2010 member - WE have a hole in us too, these relationships can show us what that is and by our own therapy we can repair and heal a core wound... .  this is the silver lining in this entire experience.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

This article rings true - there are workshops on each of these 10 False Beliefs, try going through them and you can see where your faulty thinking is keeping you stuck.

[charred]

I had read all of 2010's stuff, and it was good, but it didn't sufficiently explain the intensity/depth of feeling I had for my pwBPD. And while I know I had some N tendencies in dealing with my pwBPD, I am not NPD, and on test for it come out low of normal... .  which is pretty consistent with being a codependent/people pleaser... .  but still didn't explain the intensity. Suddenly losing her was so devastating... and the attachment theory did explain the depth, though perhaps it is not the only reason someone could have that depth of feeling... .  I just know I was open to someone ignoring the boundaries I usually use to keep people at a distance, and then love bombing me enough to think it was true love or unconditional love... .  then when it was gone, nothing seemed to matter, just lots of pain and depression.

I have dated about 25 women in my life... and had pretty serious relations with 7... and only 1 ever had that insane kind of effect... .  and it has lasted, largely undiminished for 30 yrs now... that is like a primary relationship, not a typical dating one. My exBPDgf had gained 100 lbs, let herself go, had an ugly bowl haircut and I responded to her like I had no choice... it was so deep. She lost the weight, grew out her hair, is back to being quite attractive, but I am seeing her for what she really is/was... .  and with effort have been keeping my distance.

I don't think people want to be labeled as disordered, or to think of themselves being in a r/s with someone that has the emotional maturity of a 3 yr old... .  and I am sure they don't want to think of that person being like a mother/father figure to them... its creepy... all of it, but I haven't given anyone but my exwife a second chance, and I went round 7 times with my pwBPD... in some way there is a huge attachment issue involved, to have that kind of depth of emotion... .  and normally I am cool as a cucumber... hard to rattle. I will admit that I not only don't like the idea of accepting that she is some kind of faux mother figure I never had... .  I would run from that description... but this whole horrible ride with the BPD disorder... .  has already taken me lower than I ever thought I could go and it seems par for the course.

[gina louise]

charred,

I think it's important to recognize that a "spark" that's seemed to nourish a very distant past r/s for 25 years is IN your OWN mind. YOU created a fantasy r/s with your ex... .  because you needed that.

WE created what we "needed" from our s/o 's as well as they mirrored us. Dual mirroring?

I can see with myself that my FOO and the longing to get what I sorely missed early on was always present IN ME.

It had nothing or very little to do with who was in my life at the time. It was my underlying current. The parental deficits were the holes I needed to fill all through my life regardless of who was beside me.

Lack of recognition, loss of parts of Self, invisibility, lack of being Seen/heard as valid/ Real, Injustice, neglect or override of my feelings or desires.

It was present at work, at home, in love, with friends... .  ALL r/s. Simply because it was In me, I took it with me!

We have to examine what it was IN US... .  not in the BPD r/s or in BPD partners. it's us.

just my 2 cents,

GL

[SarahinMA]

I had read all of 2010's stuff, and it was good, but it didn't sufficiently explain the intensity/depth of feeling I had for my pwBPD. And while I know I had some N tendencies in dealing with my pwBPD, I am not NPD, and on test for it come out low of normal... .  which is pretty consistent with being a codependent/people pleaser... .  but still didn't explain the intensity. Suddenly losing her was so devastating... and the attachment theory did explain the depth, though perhaps it is not the only reason someone could have that depth of feeling... .  I just know I was open to someone ignoring the boundaries I usually use to keep people at a distance, and then love bombing me enough to think it was true love or unconditional love... .  then when it was gone, nothing seemed to matter, just lots of pain and depression.

I have dated about 25 women in my life... and had pretty serious relations with 7... and only 1 ever had that insane kind of effect... .  and it has lasted, largely undiminished for 30 yrs now... that is like a primary relationship, not a typical dating one. My exBPDgf had gained 100 lbs, let herself go, had an ugly bowl haircut and I responded to her like I had no choice... it was so deep. She lost the weight, grew out her hair, is back to being quite attractive, but I am seeing her for what she really is/was... .  and with effort have been keeping my distance.

I don't think people want to be labeled as disordered, or to think of themselves being in a r/s with someone that has the emotional maturity of a 3 yr old... .  and I am sure they don't want to think of that person being like a mother/father figure to them... its creepy... all of it, but I haven't given anyone but my exwife a second chance, and I went round 7 times with my pwBPD... in some way there is a huge attachment issue involved, to have that kind of depth of emotion... .  and normally I am cool as a cucumber... hard to rattle. I will admit that I not only don't like the idea of accepting that she is some kind of faux mother figure I never had... .  I would run from that description... but this whole horrible ride with the BPD disorder... .  has already taken me lower than I ever thought I could go and it seems par for the course.

I'm right there with you, charred.  I've dated men my whole life and NEVER felt the deep connection, intense feelings that I felt with him.  I was always the avoidant in relationships.  I didn't really care if I saw them or not- I was an independent woman with lots of walls up and trust issues.  My ex (BPD?) knocked down all those walls and I couldn't WAIT to see him every day.  I couldn't wait to talk to him.  I remember thinking to myself, "okay, so this is what true love feels like.  This is what I've been waiting for."  When he was gone so suddenly and without remorse, I felt like I was gasping for breath.  Many times I wondered why he was brought in my life and now I see it as a very painful wake-up call.  I have some serious codependent issues that I have to deal with; serious feelings of loneliness that I need to accept.  I just pray that I can get through this self-discovery and come out better in the end. 

[charred]

charred,

I think it's important to recognize that a *spark* that's seemed to nourish a very distant past r/s for 25 years is IN your OWN mind. YOU created a fantasy r/s with your ex... .  because you needed that.

WE created what we *needed* from our s/o 's as well as they mirrored us. Dual mirroring?

I can see with myself that my FOO and the longing to get what I sorely missed early on was always present IN ME.

It had nothing or very little to do with who was in my life at the time. It was my underlying current. The parental deficits were the holes I needed to fill all through my life regardless of who was beside me.

Lack of recognition, loss of parts of Self, invisibility, lack of being Seen/heard as valid/ Real, Injustice, neglect or override of my feelings or desires.

It was present at work, at home, in love, with friends... .  ALL r/s. Simply because it was In me, I took it with me!

We have to examine what it was IN US... .  not in the BPD r/s or in BPD partners. it's us.

just my 2 cents,

GL

I agree, and feel like I understand the basis for the strong attraction, and it is best described as fearful avoidant attachment issues... in me. That set the stage for me to be susceptible to being in an r/s with her, and we both contributed to it being a r/s from hell for all involved. Her family was irritated by all the uproar, my family, my exwife and daughter were all hurt and nothing good came of it that I can see, certainly nothing proportional to the bad.

I have a strong core personality, and like my mother am usually rather stoic in how I do things... this r/s has devastated me over and over and has taken professional help to get out of. I have few goals, and little care for myself, and realize that I now am a controlling/people pleasing person with enough N tendencies to seem like a bit of a jerk... insight that can help, insight I never would have sought other than feeling like I had hit bottom due to the r/s.

Not out to convert anyone to seeing the relationship with a pwBPD as a psuedo-primary r/s based trauma bond... .  but until something else fits the facts better, I see it that way... and am comfortable enough with the explanation to feel I don't have to furiously keep digging on it trying to understand... rather I need to finish taking inventory and start really moving forward finally... something that in many ways hasn't happened since I let my life get derailed over 2 decades ago.

[charred]

I'm right there with you, charred.  I've dated men my whole life and NEVER felt the deep connection, intense feelings that I felt with him.  I was always the avoidant in relationships.  I didn't really care if I saw them or not- I was an independent woman with lots of walls up and trust issues.  My ex (BPD?) knocked down all those walls and I couldn't WAIT to see him every day.  I couldn't wait to talk to him.  I remember thinking to myself, "okay, so this is what true love feels like.  This is what I've been waiting for."  When he was gone so suddenly and without remorse, I felt like I was gasping for breath.  Many times I wondered why he was brought in my life and now I see it as a very painful wake-up call.  I have some serious codependent issues that I have to deal with; serious feelings of loneliness that I need to accept.  I just pray that I can get through this self-discovery and come out better in the end. 

I thought I was normal but a "victim" of the BPD person at first, then I saw I had acted like a person with NPD... in dealing with her... but not in general, she just attacked constantly and I defended like my dad... who is as malignant NPD as they come.

Now I have been seeing a T, and have taken a bunch of tests and I am not NPD, I come up short of normal on the scales... however codependency is another issue.

I grew up around a mother that was not warm and loving, I would say that had a lot to do with being fearful/avoidantly attached in general... .  the trauma from dealing with my NPD dad, and the go rounds with my exBPDgf... have left an impact on me. My T said I have symptoms of PTSD from it... and we have been working on that, and I feel much better than I did.

But many of the symptoms of codependency that ring true... .  

feel compelled,almost forced, to help that person solve the problem, such as offering unwanted advice, giving a rapidfire series of suggestions, or fixing feelings.

try to please others instead of themselves.

find it easier to feel and express anger about injustices done to others, rather than injustices done to themselves.

feel different from the rest of the world.

think they're not quite good enough.

feel guilty about spending money on themselves or doing unnecessary or fun things for themselves

be afraid of making mistakes.

wonder why they have a tough time making decisions.

expect themselves to do everything perfectly.

wonder why they can't get anything done to their satisfaction.

have a lot of "shoulds."

feel terribly anxious about problems and people.

try to control events and people through helplessness, guilt, coercion, threats, advicegiving,

manipulation, or domination

become workaholics.

don't feel happy, content, or peaceful with themselves.

look for happiness outside themselves.

overeat.

don't trust themselves.

don't trust their feelings.

don't trust their decisions.

don't trust other people.

try to trust untrustworthy people.

think God has abandoned them.

lose faith and trust in God.

find it difficult to feel close to people.

find it difficult to have fun and be spontaneous.

be extremely responsible

vacillate in decisions and emotions.

laugh when they feel like crying.

stay loyal to their compulsions and people even when it hurts.

be ashamed about family, personal, or relationship problems.


The thing is the codependency symptoms list reads like a catchall for everything... .  not sure it makes sense... but certainly a lot of things ... .    come down to me being concerned about everyone's feelings/avoiding their wrath, and not even knowing what I want/need anymore... .  certainly not pursuing pleasing myself. My motivation has been all but absent since breaking up with my pwBPD.

[seeking balance]

I had read all of 2010's stuff, and it was good, but it didn't sufficiently explain the intensity/depth of feeling I had for my pwBPD. And while I know I had some N tendencies in dealing with my pwBPD, I am not NPD, and on test for it come out low of normal... .  which is pretty consistent with being a codependent/people pleaser... .  but still didn't explain the intensity.

The fact is - you bought it all - the idealization, the mirroring, the words... .  it was stronger for you than the actual logic and actions.  The intensity is because temporarily that "core wound" felt healed.  Once the temporary band-aid is ripped off, it is a bigger wound than what you started with.

Why?  Lonely, narcissism, childhood wounds, codependency, addiction, emotionally immature - that is something for you and your therapist to figure out.

The reality is if we stayed in these relationships a significant amount of time - we overlooked logic and chose to believe the words that were said because that FELT better.  It FELT better (more intense) because it was simply a numbing agent on our core wounds.

[gina louise]

thanks for this discussion Everyone-

The reality is if we stayed in these relationships a significant amount of time - we overlooked logic and chose to believe the words that were said because that FELT better.  It FELT better (more intense) because it was simply a numbing agent on our core wounds.

SB-this really resonated with me.

it FELT better, but that didn't necessarily mean it WAS better than anything else. It not only numbed the core wound-it permitted us to function as if, albeit temporarily, we had NO core wound to begin with.

For me, that was crucial. It allowed me a greater, and perhaps false, sense of freedom than I had felt in other intimate r/s. I FELT I was able to be more My Authentic Self-and be accepted that way- than previously, and that was a relief.

Until the rug got yanked from under me, I lost my footing and the FOG came rolling in.

GL

[charred]

I am not sure who needs to give it time... .  my god, it has been 30 yrs and is still intense... which is why I lean toward it being a faux primary attachment related issue, otherwise it should have been extinguished long ago... heck if I had just married her early on, probably would have been over and done in 18 months... .  but ... she still has an effect on me after all this time, and I could go on and on about all the nasty things she has done, the abuse/hatred... .  in the 4 yrs of actual time we spent together ... .  about 8 or 9 months was great, about 4 months was okay... .  rest was new level of hell that Dante missed... .  the BPD r/s level. I am thankful we didn't marry or have kids.

Didn't want to hijack the discussion, just fixated on the intensity... .  and how long the duration was... .  I have been infatuated with women and had it burn out in 6 mos or less before... and then there was nothing, I mean zero. Dated nicer women, some that were more motherly, a few were mothers... and the r/s were all normal, no psycho-drama. I may be blind to some of the other causes of the intensity, as they seem less real. I know there were red flags to the r/s and I heard what I wanted to and chose to believe things that rationally ... .  didn't make sense. I have paid a dear price for it.

I do think many of us that had troubled childhoods (which is about everyone really)... dream of meeting their true love, having kids and spending an idyllic life growing old together. I had that in mind... .  and probably had blinders on to the truth... .  but still, something made it strong and long lasting... .  why would it not be attachment related? (Other than not wanting it to be as it sounds so icky)

[Truth in Ruin]

The Dude is right.