How is NC working for you and your family? Good? Bad?

[Ajness2305]

I'm currently NC with my uBPD mom for 3 mths now. Just wondering if NC has worked out or not worked out for anyone else?

[mysoulishome]

I'm no expert, decided to go full NC before Christmas. Seeing her had been very minimal before that, a few very stressful holiday visits a year with forced smiles and anxiety attacks.

I feel like it's a huge load off of my back. I don't stress at the thought of her calling or visiting. It's a blessing for myself and my wife as well as our marriage. Every time she visited it was an ordeal for us to try to figure out what we wanted. Especially when actuality, in the bottom of my heart and mind, what I want is to not have her in my life.

How is it going for YOU?

[Ajness2305]

. Every time she visited it was an ordeal for us to try to figure out what we wanted. Especially when actuality, in the bottom of my heart and mind, what I want is to not have her in my life.

How is it going for YOU?

I totally understand how u feel! Any contact at all with her my heart starts pounding I can feel the anxiety start. She has apparently stopped her smear campaign against me and started a bs campaign about how proud she is of me and my bf*who my parents made quite clear they hate and have been trying to break us up* is like her son, and my dad took him under his wing... .  lmao. By removing myself and my family from the cycle of crazy, we are all so much better and thriving.

I'm adopted btw and I'm not sure but I almost feel like it makes cutting ties easier. Especially after hearing what a mistake I was. I was raised to feel guilty for looking at my mother the wrong way, so it's hard, but my son has been around that crazy for too long. *we lived with them for about 7 mths. His behavior is now finally starting to get under control and he is eating properly now *she shoveled candy down his throat 24/7 to gain favor. We are just all better off away from that train wreck.

Do you ever have that feeling of guilt? How do you deal?

[Clearmind]

I was no contact with my father about 2 years ago for 5 months. It helped me to get my head around the tools here at bpdfamily.

Guilt occurs when we believe we have gone against our own moral standard. It so happens, that adult children of Borderlines more than often than not had enmeshed relationships with their parents and were accustomed to being available to fix, rescue, placate and "manage" our parents moods/feelings/emotions. We felt useful but not valued - our own thoughts about ourself - that being 'useful' is null and void when we are no contact.

You are however way more valuable than simply being useful AJ.

Guilt is an emotional response and not normally based on facts - its a human response to a trigger. Its our decision to accept guilt as an absolute reality.

What moral standard do you feel you are breeching AJ? Its likely this moral standard is one you have collected from childhood - which in turn adds to our belief sytem that "we must be available for our BPD parents, no matter what is dealt - anything less is simply catrastrophic". The guilt cycle repeats itself.

Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

There are tools to help with guilt - first we need to acknowledge why we feel guilty for making the personal decision to look out for us.

[Ajness2305]

It so happens, that adult children of Borderlines more than often than not had enmeshed relationships with their parents and were accustomed to being available to fix, rescue, placate and "manage" our parents moods/feelings/emotions. We felt useful but not valued - our own thoughts about ourself - that being 'useful' is null and void when we are no contact.

That is EXACTLY it. I was always the obedient child. I was ALWAYS with my mother, always taking care of her no matter what she needed. And she always accepted it like a queen bee, like of course I would do what she asked, didn't ask, wanted, didn't know she wanted. That feeling of take take take to only dish out the punishment for everything absolutely devalued me.

We were all raised to please her, to pacify her tantrums, to soothe her emotions. So to hear from everyone that she's 'not doing well' is hard for me. Guilt is such a conditioned response. But ultimately this is another scheme to manipulate to get her way, which is access to my child.

The day I found out I was pregnant was the day everything shifted. My son is THE most important thing and he trumps her petty wishes. That is when I started to come out of the haze of having a BPD mom. I stood up against her and put my foot down. That is why I am here, because I refuse to put my son at risk in any way shape or form, especially for her.

So... .  NC it is, but the guilt is something I need to reconcile.

[Clearmind]

Is it possible AJ you are now waiting for that punishment - that punishment you received as a child?

1. Enmeshed r/s with a parent is not healthy nor normal relating - not your fault

2. You are an adult with adult privledges - you get to decide how you operate in your life

3. You are not responsible to soothe your Moms emotions - in fact its is better you don't - she needs to learn how to self soothe herself - this is in fact helping her   Rescuing her is enabling on our part - not healthy

4. Your baby is your baby - its is your role to protect your family - this is your family  

5. Obedience is over-rated    

AJ, I suspect you have a good grasp on what you need to change/what beliefs from childhood you need to squish - my suggestion is to remind yourself where your faulty beliefs stem from - this will in turn help you with the guilt - right now you are feeling that same guilt you felt as a child - no room in adult emotions for guilt - instead we should recoin the term guilt and call it "Choice".

[doubleAries]

Clearmind, it's interesting that you point out "waiting for that punishment you received as a child?"

That made me flash back to what I felt when I went NC with my mom 22 years ago--I didn't feel guilt, I thought "HOO--BOY! I'm in BIG trouble now!" (my mom isn't a waif that expected me to take care of her--she's a witch who wanted to annihilate everything and everyone around her.

I'd like to point out too that going NC doesn't resolve the issue of having to learn to erect boundaries around values and enforce them.

[donniesgrrl]

I was no contact with my father about 2 years ago for 5 months. It helped me to get my head around the tools here at bpdfamily.

Guilt occurs when we believe we have gone against our own moral standard. It so happens, that adult children of Borderlines more than often than not had enmeshed relationships with their parents and were accustomed to being available to fix, rescue, placate and "manage" our parents moods/feelings/emotions. We felt useful but not valued - our own thoughts about ourself - that being 'useful' is null and void when we are no contact.

You are however way more valuable than simply being useful AJ.

Guilt is an emotional response and not normally based on facts - its a human response to a trigger. Its our decision to accept guilt as an absolute reality.

What moral standard do you feel you are breeching AJ? Its likely this moral standard is one you have collected from childhood - which in turn adds to our belief sytem that "we must be available for our BPD parents, no matter what is dealt - anything less is simply catrastrophic". The guilt cycle repeats itself.

Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

There are tools to help with guilt - first we need to acknowledge why we feel guilty for making the personal decision to look out for us.

I had a hugely enmeshed relationship with my uBPD mom up until October.  I would call her every day after work and text all day everyday because if I didn't and she didn't feel like her needs were being met catastrophe struck, my Step sisters never felt the need because they have their own mom, and since I have gone low to no contact I have become the devalued crap under her shoe, she showers my other 2 sisters with tons of praise and their kids with gifts (mind you in September she was constantly belittling them, even said my little sister looked like a fat mess on her wedding day, lovely huh?) . 

I always felt like it was my job to take care of her, because if I didn't she would rage, if I didn't meet her expectations (which was impossible) she would rage.  Every victory I ever had was because SHE supported me or SHE helped me, I never was given credit for doing anything on my own.  Her last conversation with me basically implied that I never would have gotten through college without their financial support and the only reason I have a degree is because of her and my Step Dad.  She also stated that "I took you under my wing when your dad left and provided for you" like it was some gift she gave me rather than her role as MY PARENT.  I am also Adopted however it was from Birth and she never lets me forget how fortunate I was that she picked me, because who knows what my life would be like.

When I was 18 I found out that she had information about my Birth mother that she was keeping from me because she felt I could not handle the news.  My Birth Mother was searching for me and she hid that from me, but I let it slide because I figured "mom knows best".

In regards to my Step sisters it hurts some, but I don't need her things, what I need from her is normalcy and that is something she will NEVER be capable of.  Coming to terms with that is still a process I am going through, a grieving state if you will.  I am however finding peace in the little things, like being able to have a much less stressed brain and enjoying my family so much more because I am not worried about if Mom hasn't called and when she does call what is going to be on the other end of the phone.  I am able to start parent the child in me that was never parented or nurtured the way I needed to be growing up and through that I am also learning to parent my own children better and it has done wonders for us. 

[mysoulishome]

I am very familiar with that horrible guilt feeling. It's involuntarily and you can't reason with it. The FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) blew my mind when I discovered this board. Those are exactly what I feel regarding my mother! (As well as my childhood and self esteem). What's more, if you are like me you try to please every other person in your life just the same as mother.

I am currently reading a book about toxic shame and it delves into shame-based families and mentions BPD specifically. Though it is just a word I am starting to feel that it captures what is at the essence of everything else. The FOG being the symptoms, the shame being the cause. When the author talks about living a shame-based life/existence it speaks to me.

I was assaulted once and as everyone gasped and felt sorry for me I felt * embarrassed*. I felt shame. The same as when my mother beats me up, judges me, manipulates me. Shame. I don't feel like I am worthy of standing up for myself. Having my own feelings and points of view. I want to please others even if they are strangers. I cannot stand the idea of someone not liking me. Even if it is a nasty person who I don't even know I will lay awake in bed at night, tortured. It must be my fault. Some disfigurement in my being. It ends up that you are not a full person. You are a human doing rather than a human being (I love that way of saying it).

BPD mother shames her children and they grow up to be shame-based adult children still searching for love and acceptance.

You have to move past that. Whether you have contact or not. I cannot exist to please other people, especially those who do not treat me well or don't have my best interests at heart. You have to love yourself and see value in yourself to love another. Especially when it comes to being in a marriage and raising children.

When I get to this point I feel it isn't about my mother anymore. I must focus on growing into a complete human being. Having self confidence and self love. I cannot live a shame-based life. My mother? In order to move on she cannot factor into my life anymore. Even if you continue a relationship (for those that do) I think you really need to arrive at this same place. Then, if you talk to her or see her, it should be on that plain. For whatever reasons. But let your feelings or having any sort of responsibility for her go... .  just be you. Be.

[Want2know]

No contact can offer temporary relief.  Little contact, however, is a way to keep the door open so resentment does build.  Just something to consider... .  

[isshebpd]

I know I'm feeling toxic shame when I fidget. I fidgeted whenever I was "called on the carpet" as a kid, and usually made matters worse by doing it. Anyhow, I rarely fidget as an adult. But when I do, I notice now and know that's a time when I'm feeling toxic shame.

[Ajness2305]

Is it possible AJ you are now waiting for that punishment - that punishment you received as a child?

That is exactly it. Even with nc, I'm still waiting for the backlash. I think it's more due to the fact that she and my dad have stopped by twice this week in the hopes to gain access. I get various emails a few times a week. Voicemails. It's unnerving.

.When I was 18 I found out that she had information about my Birth mother that she was keeping from me because she felt I could not handle the news.  My Birth Mother was searching for me and she hid that from me, but I let it slide because I figured "mom knows best".

but I don't need her things, what I need from her is normalcy and that is something she will NEVER be capable of.  

Holy! Donniesgirl, how did u deal with that? The adoption has recently been in the forefront of the issues *anything to deflect the attention to BPD. Her counselor is TERRIBLE, I know I went to her once. She was fascinated bc I was adopted, she had never dealt with that, so now she has my mother fixated on it, denying she has BPD. She told my mother I have feelings of being rejected from my birth mom. She told me, that my mother is acting out of fierce love for me and fear I will reject her, bc she's not my real mom. She told me I'm the only child that has the right to deny being a family member. *which ironically helped me to go NC after my father insinuated for the second time that adopting me was a mistake .

I may have all types of issues naturally due to my adoption, who knows, but the BPD has overshadowed my life until I went NC. I find it irritating that once again I'm being scapegoated as an excuse to shade the BPD.

I am very familiar with that horrible guilt feeling. It's involuntarily and you can't reason with it. The FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) blew my mind when I discovered this board. Those are exactly what I feel regarding my mother! (As well as my childhood and self esteem). What's more, if you are like me you try to please every other person in your life just the same as mother.

BPD mother shames her children and they grow up to be shame-based adult children still searching for love and acceptance.

mysoulishome, I used to be SUCH a people pleaser. I mean insanely going out of my way. I am actively working on not being shame based. I think it happened naturally. I hit my absolute tolerance for her bs and tantrums. Even if I wanted, I had NO emotional slack to give. I was exhausted. When we moved in with her, she took a fast downward spiral. It quickly became clear that I would never please her. Even if I won the lotto and gave her a million dollars, a new house, a new car,  anything she wanted, she would never be happy. It would always be something, some excuse for a tantrum or sobbing. She literally sucked me dry.

But ironically it's forced me to stop people pleasing and live like a normal person. I mean I'm a work in progress, but at least there's progress .

[mysoulishome]

I find myself in a sort of excited/shocked state now and then when I do ponder my history with my mother. I don't feel guilt anymore, somehow I have moved to a place of feeling removed from the situation. That finality where you think "My mother and I are estranged. This is something people do. It's acceptable." When I run across thoughts of childhood I am shake my head and I can't believe how it has turned out, but I don't take responsibility for it (in a healthy way). I am the child.

It's hard for my Dad (healthy side of the family) and others to believe that my mother has allowed herself to be exiled. I mean, if your mother had shown up at your doorstep a year ago and said I am sorry for the way I've been and I will respect your boundaries... .  things would be different now, right? In a sense, she has dug her own grave, and now that grave includes not being a grandmother to your son. Same with my mother and her grandkids. I think about that woman who at times was so tender and said things like "Becoming a mother was the best thing that ever happened to me" and now she is not in my life because she will not admit to being wrong, or not even agree to disagree but be simply act pleasant around each other... .  

Venting over. Hopefully this isn't just for me and you can identify

[donniesgrrl]

Holy! Donniesgirl, how did u deal with that? The adoption has recently been in the forefront of the issues *anything to deflect the attention to BPD. Her counselor is TERRIBLE, I know I went to her once. She was fascinated bc I was adopted, she had never dealt with that, so now she has my mother fixated on it, denying she has BPD. She told my mother I have feelings of being rejected from my birth mom. She told me, that my mother is acting out of fierce love for me and fear I will reject her, bc she's not my real mom. She told me I'm the only child that has the right to deny being a family member. *which ironically helped me to go NC after my father insinuated for the second time that adopting me was a mistake .

I may have all types of issues naturally due to my adoption, who knows, but the BPD has overshadowed my life until I went NC. I find it irritating that once again I'm being scapegoated as an excuse to shade the BPD. [/quote]
To be Honest, because I was adopted from Birth, at the time I did not think anything of it, now that I am 31 and fiercely interested in Finding my Birth Mom, I am reliving a lot of the feelings I should have had when this happened, anger about her thinking that she had any right to prohibit me from making that choice myself, and then also a better understanding of why she did it because of her severe imagined abandonment issues.

Right now I am almost in a giddy, happy stage because for the first time in my entire life I am figuring out who I really am, and being my authentic self, it feels like starting over at 31 and it is exciting and terrifying at the same time.  Everything I never knew about myself was not who I truly am and its pretty neat to be able to discover things about my personality that I never knew were there, or were over shadowed because I was always taking care of Mom.

[Clearmind]

AJ, Want2Know makes a very valid point and one that took me some time to process - its worth exploring.

Background: I was no contact from my father for a period of 5 months – it helped with distance for me to regroup, heal from the trauma and learn some new coping skills. I now have controlled contact with my father and our relationship has improved because a) I have worked hard on my coping skills and boundaries b) I feel empowered because of it and dictate when and how contact is made c) my father now knows where I stand because I guard my boundaries rather than guarding no contact - as the rule.

No contact is a good tool when we are faced with initial trauma, it may not be a long term solution that works – unfortunately it is often not sustainable, often fails and can trigger our already evident abandonment fears. This is a cycle – and no contact sometimes does not help this cycle.

Why do I believe this? Many members on the board in recent years, since I have been a member, have feverishly guarded the no contact rule – then their parent contacts them, you both attend a funeral or wedding or family member’s birthday – contact is inevitable. What usually occurs is the member is thrown into a tail spin with no coping skills to help - that abandonment cycle is repeated.

What can help is low or controlled contact rather than the all or nothing approach of no contact – low or controlled contact is a strong boundary in itself – it means we get to choose the speed or pace of the relationship – it actually can provide us with some personal power where no contact does not – it simply avoids the underlying cause – which is often a mix of our own poor coping skills (collected from our childhood/past experience) and lack of firm boundaries.

Mindfulness and wise mind techniques helped me enormously – I cannot recommend these techniques enough.

Food for thought…What is your main concern with your relationship with your Mom? We can help you to begin to work on the cause if you are open to it.