Do MY life choices make YOU feel defensive ?

[Depression = 72% of members]

If they do then that is YOUR issue not mine.

This is not directed at anyone in particular. I have faced this delema in many situations with many people.

[almost789]

If they do then that is YOUR issue not mine.

This is not directed at anyone in particular. I have faced this delema in many situations with many people.

[mosaicbird]

Since this is the self-inventory board, I'm going to be honest... .    In this thread and the other, you come across as the one being defensive.

Do you have any theories as to why you seem to face this situation a lot?

[almost789]

Yes, I am naturally a defensive person. But, again. I am speaking of MY life. Why do other's have a problem with MY life? I was not defensive, until someone said they felt defensive about MY choices. I dont feel defensive about what others chose to do with their life. Why are they about mine? Really. I do get defensive when people try to determine MY motive in MY life. My decisions are not conventional, and I am proud of it. I don't follow the heard. I have a mind of my own. Alot of people don't like that and I don't really care.

But back to the original, why do people get defensive about what I do? Because it doesn't match with what they do? Why do people attempt to come up with MY motive in things and they have never even spoken to me and don't even know me. What gives them the power to determine MY motive with no facts? And more importantly why are they trying to determine MY motive instead of looking at themselves?

[Grey Kitty]

LGO2,

If your life choices make someone else defensive... .  that is their issue. Everybody has their own problems, their own reasons to take something personally that isn't really their business.

Why does it bother you so much that they do?

[almost789]

Great question grey kitty, i dont know the answer. Let me think on it.

[almost789]

It shouldn't bother me so much that they do. And normally, things don't bother me so much. These two particular issues though grate on my nerves. Obviosly, open relationships cause contraversy. I understand. People make their assumptions. Such as that "everyone knows everyone" which couldn't be further from the truth. I also hear. I couldn't have a relationship with no emotional connection. Well, umm... .  who said there was no emotional connection? I can't have a relationship with no emotional connection either. The other issue is the issue of if you seek companionship, you NEED a man to make you feel whole. This is incorrect assumption again. I personally am very independant, too independant infact, I spend alot of time alone and infact I quite enjoy it. I used to travel for work and spent many a weeks in a hotel, alone and liked it. I like my personal time and space. Unfortunately, I have spent SO much time alone. I am a bit tired of it. I do enjoy personal interaction. It does not mean. " I need a man to make me whole" and I am just sick of that assumption. It irritates me that "others" make assumptions about "others' lives, even when you are telling them NO that is not what it is. I can't help but wonder if projection plays a big part here.

But, you are right, it shouldn't bother me SO much what others think. I will defend my views though when others make their judgements on MY life and get it wrong.

[tailspin]

LGO2,

It takes quite some time to not get defensive about what other people think of us.  We spent so much time dancing in our partner's head and it's part of the co-dependent cycle we need to break.  It's also hard to give ourselves the validation we crave; when someone disagrees with our life choices it's hard to not take what they think personally; we naturally care about what other people think. 

The key, I believe, is to focus on what works best for us.  And then own it.

tailspin

[almost789]

Oh, I own it. No doubt. If I didn't own it I would hide it in secret and not post it on here. The problem is not that I don't "like" what others think of me. I trully don't care what strangers think of me. I know who my friends are. I made my choice and enjoy it. My problem is when others get it wrong and make up their own ideas about my life based on their fantasy of what my life is. But they are free to do that if they find that to be enjoyable or productive for them. I will speak for myself and correct them when they get it wrong though. It is my life afterall.

I could also make judgements on others here too about their life choices, but thats not me,  I just don't find it to be enjoyable, productive or benificial for me. I take care of my side of my street and they can take care of theirs as far as I am concerned.

I'm interested in this co-dependant cycle though tailspin. I have to read more about it. I hear co-dependants also have difficulty with crossing other peoples boundaries and trying to judge and control people. Have you managed to break the whole co-dependant cycle thing. I see that you say it takes time, so I am assuming you have broken that cycle right?

[tailspin]

LGo2,

Since we are all among friends... .  I often get the most defensive when I'm trying to convince myself that I'm right.  When I'm certain of who I am and/or what I've done, the opinions of others don't bother me.  It's when I'm not being true to myself that I get defensive, defiant, and combative of what other people think. This may be true for you as well; only you can decide.

You say "My problem is when others get it wrong and make up their own ideas about my life based on their fantasy of what my life is. But they are free to do that if they find that to be enjoyable or productive for them. I will speak for myself and correct them when they get it wrong though. It is my life afterall." 

Do you think this is a combative or provocative statement?  I doubt whether anyone on the L6 board is this preoccupied with your life to be honest.  Talk this out... maybe we can all learn something.

tailspin

[almost789]

LGO2,

It takes quite some time to not get defensive about what other people think of us.  We spent so much time dancing in our partner's head and it's part of the co-dependent cycle we need to break.  It's also hard to give ourselves the validation we crave; when someone disagrees with our life choices it's hard to not take what they think personally; we naturally care about what other people think.  

The key, I believe, is to focus on what works best for us.  And then own it.

tailspin

No, I don't find my statement to be combative. It is a correction about your assumption. You assumed I was taking it personally because someone disagreed with my life choice. I actually don't remember anyone actually "disagreeing' with it, but rather making up details that existed in their mind only. A correction, not combative. Also, there is no "right" or "wrong" here. Would you agree? This is a subjective matter, my opinion and your opinion. I own my opinion. I am open to discuss all you like. I am an open book. What else would you like to know?

Who was it that disagreed with my life choice? I didn't see any. Did you? Do you disagree? It's ok if you do.

[almost789]

Defiant? Was I being defiant? Interesting. I have been known to be defiant. But I didnt think that term would apply here. Were all equals right? Thats what I thought.

[Clearmind]

It helps to understand where our defences come from. When in an uncomfortable situation, our bodies will try to warn and protect us from perceived danger. We can fly into defensive mode when we feel such things as judgment, feeling attacked, manipulated, made to look inferior etc etc.

How we exhibit defensiveness can be different for everyone – silence, perspire, rush of adrenaline, confusion/dissociation/passive aggression etc. This is our bodies way of warning us.

We each are triggered depending on our baseline and what faulty beliefs we carry. These faulty beliefs are generally collected from childhood/based on past experiences – they can also signify communication issues. If we want to better manage a trigger we need to first find out what faulty beliefs we are still living and protect them by learning some good coping skills. Find the underlying fear and we negate the need to fly into defensive mode.

Ultimately it’s a fear based response and rarely rooted in fact/data. Pause - collect data - and reassess before

counter-attacking is always a good tool to master. Certainly makes for a happier person.

A wonderful 12 week video series on The Self Acceptance Project that I found incredibly interesting – the first two sessions talk about how to cope with our own reality. Session 1 and Session 2 is available until Monday night - then another two come out. Worth a look!

[almost789]

Thanks clearmind i will check it out. And also, we all have defenses its part of human nature. There are healthy defenses and unheathy defenses. Also, a defenseless person can also be considered un healty. I do agree though I can be quite defensive at times. I am aware of that.

[Clearmind]

Oh I totally agree LGO - you are right - defenses are certainly part of human nature and how we "manage" them, using good/healthy coping skills is how we are remembered. Its more an indication about us rather than the other person. We can only control our own emotional response.

A defenseless person is more often not a person who is boundary-less - good boundaries are essential - this is what would be classifed as a healthy coping skill - it shows others who we are - it also provides us with integrity. If we become defensive what tends to happen is that our message is completely lost - the other person is now only remembering/focussing on the tone not our message. I would much rather be remembered for my message - this is who I am.

Your message is important because you are a valuable person - working on our self worth and our belief systems helps enormously with bringing down our defenses. Good for you LGO - Wise Mind is a great tool for helping us to remain neutral - I use it daily.

I honestly cannot recommend those videos enough. Love to hear what you think about them.

[almost789]

Thank you. I certainly will. I like who I am clearmind and how I act or what others opinions of me are dont define my self worth. My friends see me as a character with lots of integrity and I see myself that way as well.

Back to the topic. If MY life choices make YOU feel defensive. If this applies to any of you here you may want to ask yourself why that is. We should not feel defensive about others choices... that is a direct reflection on your own self worth. I am defensive under attack of my character. I am not defensive about what others are doing in their bedroom. Do u see the difference?

[Clearmind]

I am defensive under attack of my character.

This is worth exploring LGO.

Many of us feel the need to defend our character - why is that? - Do you believe it to be true? Why do we believe others opinions of us?

If we feel the need to defend - do we honestly believe in ourselves?

What is the worst that can happen if we let it go?

[almost789]

You know what your right. I will let it go. I dont care what anyone thinks of my character. Bash me all u want... .  ... .  

But when your done do u think the topic is important to explore? Ill leave that up to those who find what me and my husband do with our romantic life of importance to them. Peace.

[Clearmind]

It is my guess that we all want to be heard – I spent much of my childhood and adulthood not feeling valued or heard – I became preoccupied with justifying, arguing, defending, and explaining (JADE) every little thing.

There is an underlying reason for this.  JADE is not the only way of feeling heard. What JADE does do is engage us in a battle of “let us see whose argument is better. Let’s see who is right, and it damn well better be me”.

How do we step out? By giving up the need to be right, to do battle/be defensive. We don’t need to be right in the eyes of another person – all we need is to be comfortable with our choice without the need to justify. This is more about us than the other person.

If we want to do battle – we JADE!  Not JADE’ing does not make us wrong – it shows our emotional maturity to be comfortable with our decision.

[almost789]

Did I admit I was defensive? Yes. Am I defensive when my character is under attack YES!

What more do you want from me?

Is that the topic of this discussion? No, I find it ironic that the very people who constantly say "look at yourself" harp on and on about everyone else looking at themselves refuse to look at themselves. Would you like to address the topic of this thread?

Denial is a big part of defenses too and we ALL have them. Knowing and admitting your faults also shows emotional maturity. Denyinig them shows emotional impotence.

[lbjnltx]

Please be mindful of the site Guidelines for Discussion:


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[almost789]

Thank you Ibjnltx for the reminder!

I would like to address Clearminds comment about what is worth exploring here. And then move on to the real topic of this thread. Clearmind, yes I am defensive when my character is attacked. Is there something more you find worth exploring about my defensiveness? I am open to all recommendations. Feel free to recommend anything you like, I am open to constructive criticism.

I don't believe, my open relationship with my husband is a topic of what is "right" or "wrong" I am not here trying to prove "I am right" I don't even believe there is a right or wrong here. There's much information on the difference between subjective topics and objective topics and how to determine which is which if one is not clear on that. This is a subjective topic. There is no right or wrong. But, again, that is not the subject of this thread either.

The subject is, if one feels defensive about MY life then they need to ask themselves why they feel defensive about other peoples lives. It makes a clear indicator of co-dependancy for sure. Co dependancy shows a trait of not being able to see clear boundaries between others and themselves. We are all individuals. Every topic should not be addresses as "we" as we all have unique ideas and lives. When addressing one's own ideas and feelings a good way to separate those personal boundaries is by addressing them by stating "I" not "we" as we all don't feel or think the same.

I have so much more to say, but I have to go now and take my son to school and then work. Be back later.

[123Phoebe]

SummerT321,

In answer to your question on the subject matter-- No, your life choices in no way make me feel defensive. 

This is a self-help site, so I took the liberty of looking within.

The subject prompted me to ask myself something, ':)o my own life choices make me feel defensive'?  Do I feel a need to defend my own life choices?  And with that the answer is still yes, but wading through my own inventory to dial it up to a resounding NO.  There's still a little critical voice playing inside my head, not so much placing blame and shame on others (anymore ), but on myself for some of the choices I've made throughout the years and continue to make... .    I'm not striving to be an emotional guru or anything of the sort, simply comfortable in my own skin minus the negative self-talk that has held me back on so many occasions.   It's a part of who I am still, but not the part I want leading the way anymore.  I'd like to be better at accepting myself, warts and all.

Do I care what other's think of me?  I guess, sometimes I do.  But, I'm better at not taking what they think (or what I perceive they're thinking) of me to heart, owning it and reacting to it with negativity, be it towards them or toward myself, by feeling the 'need' to defend my character.

I think victims of abuse tend to have a lot of negative self-talk chatter playing in the background, but I can only speak for myself.  I'm beyond being a victim, or even a survivor, but on my way to thriver!  Yay! 

Thank you bpdfamily.com!  And members like you SummerT321, that prompt me to look within, taking my own inventory by checking in with myself to see where I'm at and where I'd like to be.  It paves the way towards a brighter future

[almost789]

Ok, now. I would like to address the defensiveness of one's character. Do I feel the need to defend my character? No. This topic was not a question about my character. I'm proud of my choice. I'm a mature grown woman, I made this choice AFTER 26 years of manogamy, thank you. It makes me and my husband happy. I don't defend my choice. What I defend is my right to have my own opinion and my own life, not what I do in my bedroom. I will always defend my own opinion, especially when others come at me to tell me it is wrong or they don't agree with MY life. Its an idea, a feeling a choice. My choice. Not theirs. If one views that as negative defensiveness, that's ok. I don't.

Now, onto the JADING. Where is the jading? I don't see it, I don't see where I was justifying my actions. I don't feel any need to justify my actions. So, please someone point out where my Jading was. Was it in my acknowledgment that I was defensive? and asserting my right to have my own opinion? Was that Jading? In your opinion?

Accusing- Where is the accusing? Again, I don't see it in my comments. I do see it where someone said. "your the defensive one" Is that an acccusation? Yes it is. I asked a question. Do you feel defensive of my MY life choices? The reason I asked the question is some have clearly shown a defensiveness to it. But again, it was a question. I didn't accuse any one. A question, not an accusation.

Defending- Well, there are levels of defensiveness. Defending one's own right to their own opinion and life choice, I don't see as un healthy. I would venture to say the psychologists would also say this is healthy. One should defend their own ideas. Not unhealthy to do that. Being defensive about MY life an my right to my own choice without judgement, in my opinion is healthy. Being defensive about someone elses sex life is VERY Un healthy, again. In my opinion. And I would also venture to say most psycho analyst would find this un healthy.

Thank you Pheobe- I am glad you aren't defensive about my romantic life. But for anyone who is, they should consider asking themselves why? Co dependants are more concerned about everyone else, helping everyone else, correcting everyone else, but don't take any responsibility for themselves.

[MaybeSo]

To answer the question posted:

If someone elses life choices are stimulating a feeling of defensiveness in me... .  then the feeling is mine to own.

Yes. I would agree with that.

I think whatever feelings I'm having are mine to own, to examine, and to understand why I am having that feeling arise in my body.

A feeling of defensiveness, specifically,  would signal to me that I'm experiencing something potentially threatening or dangerous either physically or emotionally, a defensive posture is

generally a natural response to a real or perceived sense of threat. Sometimes the threat it real.

Sometimes it's a misunderstanding.  But if I were feeling strongly defensive,  it's something I'd want to pay attention to.

I think strong feelings that we have, or any feelings... About anything... .  are ours to own and understand.

Im trying not to move into the realm of shoulds... That it's wrong to feel a feeling, you shouldn't feel that way... .  Etc.

Feelings arise in us... They are there. We often say we shouldn't have a certain feeling, but that's like saying I shouldn't have an arm. If it's arising in me, its there in my body, my job is to own it and manage it in a manner that is safe and productive. Its not about "you should not feel defensive", "you are wrong to feel XYZ". I think the biggest problem feelings churn up... .  is not their presence in the owners body, but what the owner chooses to do in managing that feeling.

[almost789]

Yep, and just curious Maybe so. Do you feel that feelings were managed here as they should have been or do you think they were not managed as the should have been? I am open to your analysis of the  managment of my feelings. As I said, I am open to construtive criticism. Do you feel there is a better way for me to managed my feelings here on the thread?  Thank you for your help.

[waitaminute]

If I have mashed potatoes in my beard, please  somebody tell me. Maybe it's my choice but then again maybe I just don't know.

[P.F.Change]

  LGO2.

I am noticing a bit of a pattern in your posts. Since you're asking for advice, and say you're open to constructive criticism, I will try to show you what I'm talking about.

When you wrote:

I was not defensive, until someone said they felt defensive about MY choices.

I assume you are referring to this:

Some of the comments have made me feel defensive though, so I have waited a bit to post ... .  

Is that right? I went back to look over that thread, and Cumulus's post makes no mention of you (or anyone) specifically; she does not say anything about your life choices; in fact, she only talks about her own life and feelings.

Here in this thread, you said:

Defiant? Was I being defiant? Interesting. I have been known to be defiant. But I didnt think that term would apply here. Were all equals right? Thats what I thought.

You seem to be interpreting someone as calling you defiant. When I look at tailspin's post, however, all I see are "I" statements about what she has noticed about herself. The only time she mentions you at all is to say only you can decide whether what is true for her is also true for you.

The pattern I am noticing in these examples and elsewhere, is that you seem to be interpreting other people's statements as personal attacks, even when they make no mention of you. Do you think this is true? To me, it seems you are not only feeling defensive (which is a natural response to being attacked), you are expecting a fight and finding one even when it's not there. Does that make any sense? I would be interested to hear your thoughts about that.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[almost789]

Hi PF Change,

Yes, you are correct. I am reading a bit into that. Technically, me, myself was not listed in the comment by tailspin, however indirectly it may have been. It was on my thread and it was about me being defensive was it not? I admit I am defensive. Is that enough? I think I have admitted it multiple times here. Is there more you are looking for? Is it that you want me to admit that my life choice makes me feel defensive? Is that why everyone keeps harping on my defensiveness. Am I denying being defensive? No. So what is it more you want me to do? It's ok. I have very thick skin. If you all want to continue on about me, about something I admitted to. I am a naturally defensive person, feel free. I can see how that must make you feel better. But, I will not admit that my romantic life make me feel defensive, that I feel I am doing something wrong. I won't. I'm perfectly content with that choice.

I have to go now, I have gotten off track with my work. Peace all.

[Want2know]

But, I will not admit that my romantic life make me feel defensive, that I feel I am doing something wrong. I won't. I'm perfectly content with that choice.

I don't think the members here are looking to challenge your choices, LGO.  They are trying to help you work through your self-admitted defensiveness.

You have posted on the Personal Inventory board.  Please take a look at the "Who Should Post" thread and understand that this is the place where:

"This is a board for listening.  Listen to others talk about you.  It's likely to be uncomfortable, at times.  When it is, it is best to close your computer and step away to reflect what has been said.  If you find yourself 'pushing back', you are also most likely closing down.  Exploring your own vulnerabilities requires a great deal of humility and strength of character."

Regarding the premise of this board, what is the mental health issue, value, or goal that you are looking to get advice from others on in order to progress?

[almost789]

Hi Wantnto know,

What I wanted was to discuss the topic of this thread. That is usually how forums operate. If one doesnt have any input on the topic, its usually best to not participate, rather than change the subject? Would you not agree? I think that is in line with the guidelines as well, correct? When and if I chose to examine my defensiveness as a mental health issue, I will seek a mental health professional, thank you for your kind concern all.

Yikes!... .  

[Want2know]

When and if I chose to examine my defensiveness as a mental health issue, I will seek a mental health professional, thank you for your kind concern all.

To clarify, respectfully, the topic of your subject header is geared towards others.  This board is about you, and your feelings and what it is you feel is holding you back.

Discussing this with a therapist would be a good thing if you would prefer to do it in person with a mental health professional.  It's ok if you're not ready to explore how this effects you here.  I think we all understand that.  There are topics that I sometimes feel I want to explore further about myself and am just not ready to do so on a public forum.  Those I do save to discuss with my T. 

Just know, we are here for you when you are ready. 

[tailspin]

LGo2,

When I first started working on myself, one of the moderators asked me some very pointed questions similar to the ones I asked you in one of my earlier posts.  These questions are purely intended to be though provoking.  What you are feeling is important and what you think does matter.  

I've read many of your posts but I cannot determine if you ever really worked through the anger stage of grief.  :)id you?  Sometimes we build walls to keep our anger in... .  and it takes a huge effort to allow ourselves, or give permission to ourselves, to be angry. It's how we choose to express our anger that a)either prolongs our anger, or b)allows us to let the anger go.

If you are stuck, and maybe you aren't, sometimes it helps me if I turn the question around.  For example, if I posted your original question, I might do this to it:  ":)o my life choices make me feel defensive" or maybe ":)o your life choices make me feel inferior."  

This way, I can find out what's really bothering me.  Of course, this may not apply, or be at all helpful to you, and that's fine.  I hope you find peace regardless.

tailspin

[turtle]

Hi SummerT321 --

Your life choices are none of my business and whatever those choices are don't make me defensive at all.

Your tone, however, makes me defensive -- and THAT is something I have to look at within myself.  It has nothing to do with you.

turtle

[almost789]

... .  tailspin and want to know. This is so muddy now and circular, now I am angry and feel inferior because of your life choice? please. I lived a life of manogamy for 26 years and am still married to the same man. Manogamy or lack of it does in no way make me feel inferior. As I read through this entire post here I see no where where I was angry or inappropriately defensive. Seems like a classic case here of deflection and then projection. As I said, it's so muddy now and so circular. I honestly don't participate in nonsense like this. I'm done here.

[almost789]

One more comment to turtle, I just saw her post. If I make you feel defensive, that's ok. I won't claim that as a "mental health' issue for you. We all have defenses. I have a very strong personality. What I find is I have a lot of people who feel defensive around me. I have alot of people who don't feel that way at all around me. It's fine. We all have our own personality and differences. I even have best friends who tell me, you intimidated me when I first met you and I don't know why. But, now they love me. Anyway. It's all good.

[turtle]

What I find is I have a lot of people who feel defensive around me. I have alot of people who don't feel that way at all around me. It's fine.

Is it okay with you that many people perceive you this way?   

No judgment there --- just curious.

turtle

[lbjnltx]

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