I still ask myself why - even though I know the reason

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Do you ever ask yourself this question - why would someone throw away a good marriage, a happy life, a loving family, friends, church, almost everything for an affair?  I've done so much reading and my T has helped me to understand this has nothing to do with me - so why do people with BPD, PTSD, Extreme Codependancy not see what they are throwing away?  Maybe that's why they need to paint us and everything around us black - so they think they threw away a horrible life when in actuallity it was a great life.

[cal644]

Do you ever ask yourself this question - why would someone throw away a good marriage, a happy life, a loving family, friends, church, almost everything for an affair?  I've done so much reading and my T has helped me to understand this has nothing to do with me - so why do people with BPD, PTSD, Extreme Codependancy not see what they are throwing away?  Maybe that's why they need to paint us and everything around us black - so they think they threw away a horrible life when in actuallity it was a great life.

[Somewhere]

Do you ever ask yourself this question - why would someone throw away a good marriage, a happy life, a loving family, friends, church, almost everything for an affair?  I've done so much reading and my T has helped me to understand this has nothing to do with me - so why do people with BPD, PTSD, Extreme Codependancy not see what they are throwing away?  Maybe that's why they need to paint us and everything around us black - so they think they threw away a horrible life when in actuallity it was a great life.

Sorry on all that.

Are you asking why a Mentally Ill person does not have the same value system as you?

[cal644]

Not really - I guess for me I just cannot fully understand how the mentally ill mind works.  My theropist has helped me to understand this - she is going to a guy who is exactly like the childhood she left - he said she is addicted to the misery, the love makes her uncomfortable and bored as she doesn't know how to enjoy the good things in life because she feels underserving of that (which she has also told me).  But after 19 years of marriage you would think that some of the values, morals, and feelings of love would some how seep in.  I still don't understand either how she doesn't want a single memory from the last 19 years which 99% were great memories (at least for me)

[elessar]

you described my ex. once i know the answers, maybe i can move on... .  

from all my readings about BPD... .  their "reality" is not the same as our reality. whatever they think they are doing, they truly believe they are doing the right thing. and they could flip 180 degrees the next day and not realize for a second about their contradictions. how and why their mind works that way... .  i guess thats the definition of this mental illness right?

[cal644]

You would not beleive how many times since we seperated I have got those mixed signals - but a day latter its just the opposite - from one morning to one night it can change with the snap of a finger.  Floors me - since I've got a normal mind.  One day she realizes that she threw away the best thing in her life and her best friend.  The next day it's I hate you - that night I don't hate you - the next day I'm working on myself - the next day don't ever talk or text me again? 

[elessar]

yes cal644... .  word for word it is true. whenever i doubt myself that maybe i have some serious issues and she doesn't have BPD... .  i read these boards and how most of the stuff our exes said or did are exactly the same! doesn't make me feel better... .  but at least doesnt make me feel alone.

[elessar]

it would make me feel so much better if she wasn't looking to get married so desperately. one night she asks do i trust her. few mins later gets pissed. next evening on a date. past 6.5 weeks on an indian matrimonial site looking for husbands. argghhhhh.

[cal644]

I honestly doubt mine will ever get married again.  Her whole life she has said she has never wanted to be married to anyone (not only me) due to her past.  She has also told our daughter that there is no way she will ever be married again. 

[elessar]

she had told me the same thing a million times. she cannot be with another man. she cannot let anyone else touch her. she cannot do such a wrong thing by being in love with me and marrying someone else (a second reason she broke up was because of her parental disapproval of me). yet she is looking around. but i agree with you on one thing... .  it is one thing to look and talk to other guys but totally different to actually do it. lets see what happens... .  

[fakename]

cal i liked what your T said about being addicted to the misery. makes sense.

elessar, i wouldnt listen to anything she says.  nothing is real. my ex told me she couldnt stand another person touching them and how it made her sick after she broke up with her 2nd ex. (but why was she sleeping with me?)

anyway that doesnt last. they have to desperately fill their emptiness and there's no point in pretending that what they say is true, or that we know what they want, because that changes all the time.  she can find her white knight and all of a sudden forget anything she said she wanted or didnt want, and will completely attach to the white knight.

my ex is in a new r/s with some guy for 2 weeks now.  they go to hot yoga and crossfit together. theyre probabyl really happy. good for them. i dont care at all. i know it wont last and in time things will be chaos for them. just as it was in all her other relationships. 

i dont know. i just dont see the point in fighting so hard for someone who is obviously crazy.  i can understand why i was so heart broken and went through PTSD and wanted to be with her so badly, but i recognize now i dont want to spend the rest of my living the way we did. nothing can be built or grow with her and when it does grow, she'll do something to damage it.  i wasted way too much time and energy on her that i should have spent on myself.

[fakename]

also, i remember one night she called me after being out with her cousins and watching some movie, and she was literally balling crying and saying how stupid she's been and how she cant believe she's had what she's always wanted right in front of her, and blah blah blah for a good 10 minutes. pretty much everything i've always been waiting to hear. like she finally had the realization of all i did and sacrificed and how much i loved her.  but at the same time of hearing it, i couldnt fully appreciate it cause i knew, she would change her mind the next day.  and low and behold the next day we broke up again.

hilarious how sticking around crazy too long will make you crazy.

and hilarious that i kept fighting for such a dysfunctional lifestyle.

[cal644]

my wife did the same thing - balling like crazy - saying all sorts of things - two days latter - it was like what the hell? Where was that person from two days ago?

[fakename]

Hahah. I don't know why I didn't think more into it and realize it was a serious mental disorder that can't be fixed.

Either way. Let her be happy with her new bf. I hope things work out. I'm just glad I'm not on call 24/7 anymore, knowing everything I give still isnt enough and not losing my mind any further by being around crazy.

A lot of times I couldn't even feel comfortable having a night to myself or anything. I always get there was a cloud hanging over

[gina louise]

I would suggest hormones play a part with the tears... .  except that my bf (later he was my H) would tear up too... .  and emotionally state " GL you are the best part of my whole existence."

Then from an hour to a day to a week later tell me suddenly that we need a break and we clearly are NOT compatible.

he doesn't like me, and I have "issues"... .  

and he would never try to be married or in a r/s again.   

crazy train platform, up ahead... .  

GL

[fakename]

Hahahaha at crazy train platform up ahead.

I've been through the same thing GL.

Also being told I'm the only one who understand her and I'm her best friend to we're not a good match and If I love her I have to let her go.

I really don't get why I didn't look more into all the back and forth. How could I have not seen it as an issue?

[elessar]

haha fakename, it feels like you are me. or we had same ex. 100% sure we didnt. have read some stories everywhere. but isnt is amazing and creepy how they all act and say the same things. your comment about "i dont like anyone touching me" made me laugh because of the thousands of times i have heard it.

[gina louise]

I really feel like a lot of my stbxBPDh r/s are IN HIS HEAD only... .  and that's where he has his arguments, declarations, justifications, reminisces, and excuses stored up.

So when he felt he was saying wonderful lovey things to me-they were playing out in his mind only.

He was probably rehearsing it mentally-it just never got out!

He rarely spoke romantic, endearing comments. Very few in the 4 years, count 'em on one hand.

Though since he rehearsed it in his mind-he probably thought /felt he was loving and romantic on a daily basis!

When he felt I was negative, controlling and a bit#h-again-In his HEAD - he acted like it was REAL.

I might have asked a question or made a comment-like it's Nice to get out after a long week-which he heard as "YOU ARE SUCH A ~- WE NEVER EVER GO OUT ANYMORE!

So that stuff IN HIS HEAD made him feel so angered at ME he was unable to keep a lid on it.

I had a constant state of What the heck was THAT? going on the last few months.

Not anymore. thank god.

GL

[ThanksForPlaying]

A lot of times I couldn't even feel comfortable having a night to myself or anything. I always get there was a cloud hanging over

About two years ago, before I had ever heard of BPD, I was so frustrated that I pulled out a piece of paper and started to write down some of the things that were happening, to try to make sense of them.  The title I wrote on the notepad?  "Black Cloud"

Just found that notepad in a drawer the other day.  In hindsight, should have been titled BPD.

[HarmKrakow]

it would make me feel so much better if she wasn't looking to get married so desperately. one night she asks do i trust her. few mins later gets pissed. next evening on a date. past 6.5 weeks on an indian matrimonial site looking for husbands. argghhhhh.

Same here, that constant seek for attention in this way and wanting to be together and so seemingly easy steps over 1 and goes to another, blergh   Heart crushing

[fakename]

harmkrakow,

thats why it shouldnt matter anymore - nothing was real. and nothing is real with anyone new they pick up.

they'll never change and their minds will always be full of chaos.  i'm not gonna make myself crazy too.  thats the best thing i can do.

[Clearmind]

Cal, often we hold onto the fantasy of the r/s and not the reality.

Do you ever ask yourself this question - why would someone throw away a good marriage, a happy life, a loving family, friends, church, almost everything for an affair?  

For a two people to have a happy life, marriage etc they need to be independently healthy – family, friends, church or anything for that matter cannot “make” someone happy.

Cal, blaming yourself will bring you down – you are not a super human being that can save someone who does not want to be saved – this is co-dependent thinking.

Maybe that's why they need to paint us and everything around us black - so they think they threw away a horrible life when in actuallity it was a great life.

No! Let go of the fantasy thought that your marriage was perfect. Her inner world is chaotic – you had nothing to do with her illness – it was there long before you came along – it will be there long after until she seeks intensive therapy.

What are some ways you can begin to let go of this fantasy?

You would not beleive how many times since we seperated I have got those mixed signals - but a day latter its just the opposite - from one morning to one night it can change with the snap of a finger.  

Cal, to be blunt this says more about you than her. There is no such thing as mixed messages – they are red flags you chose to ignore. I ignored them to because I wanted to hold onto that fantasy that my life was perfect – what an illusion that was.

Floors me - since I've got a normal mind.  

There is no such thing as normal – none of us are normal. The very reason many of us cannot fathom the loss of our relationships is because we have our own need for healing.

Through out yours posts Cal I note you are concentrating on your ex – when are you going to put down the magnifying glass on this r/s and pick up the mirror and look at you? That magnifying glass is not going to help you move forward at all. You will go around and around in circles with this thinking.

I can suggest you read over the threads on personal inventory to help you see your role here.

[fakename]

great post clearmind

[cal644]

You are so right! I hold onto and remember the good times - I so easily forget about the bad.  The relationship wasn't healthy for me as I now realize how codependant I also became as my life revolved around her - the friends I lost because she needed constant attention from me - the times I gave in so she wouldn't be upset, the opportunities I let go because she didn't want them - I gave up so much of my self - maybe that's why it's hard because now alot of myself is in her.  I know when I started to do things by myself that I liked it would make her upset, I don't know if all that makes since?  But I'm now connecting with old friends I let go that I would have never talked to if we were still together, I'm developing new friendships that I never would have had the opportunity to, I'm allowed to do things like learn the guitar - that she wouldn't approve of because of the time it would take away from her.  I did lose myself - i actually had a dream from my brother who past away from cancer - I was explaining to him that she said she stopped loving me when he got sick.  He told me in this dream that this has been in her heart alot longer than I knew and that while I'm sad, and suffering now God has something better instore for me.  As for the mixed messages it does speak alot of me - I do still have hope that she will come to her senses, I do still have hope that the marriage will work, but ever time I get a little hope - a message of despair comes - crushing my hope.  I truly beleive that she wants me to suffer - in fact at one time I wrote a note that the only time she seemed happy was when she made me feel miserable... .  I guess misery does love company.

[Clearmind]

You are so right! I hold onto and remember the good times - I so easily forget about the bad.  The relationship wasn't healthy for me as I now realize how codependant

Where we get our co-dependent traits from, varies between individuals. Our relationship skills, how we relate to others, is learnt from our childhoods. My childhood was dysfunctional, my father is likely uBPD and an alcoholic – I know where I get my co-dependent traits from.

Great book – Co-dependent No more - "Melody Beattie" – there is also a workbook that you may find interesting. Recovery from co-depending is negating the need to control others – save you!

Even if you don't feel up to reading a book like this - fake it - we need to consciously heal not unconsciously suffer. Anything less is placing us in the victim role. Being a victim will not bring our partners back - so why do we hang onto it? What's its role really? - its a self fulfilling prophecy that reinforces our feelings of not being good enough.

When you find yourself wanting to get on the ex band-wagon – PAUSE – delve deep and find where that is coming from – to give a hint – it has more to do with your childhood than your ex.

We base our self worth on making someone else happy – you will be paddling up that river of denial, without oars, for a very long time if you continue to believe that you can make her happy – no amount of money, friends or anything can do this – she has to do this for herself – and it won’t happen without therapy.

I gave up so much of my self - maybe that's why it's hard because now alot of myself is in her.  

Yes you did! You sacrificed your own happiness – we believe if we can make them happy then we will be happy – she will never be happy without therapy – so you will be waiting a long time for your own personal freedom if you are banking on that.

Remember: what you loved in her is what others see in you – she mirrored you.

I know when I started to do things by myself that I liked it would make her upset, I don't know if all that makes since?  

Yes because your very existence is what motivated her – you were not concentrating on her 100%, she felt lost. Not your role.

As for the mixed messages it does speak alot of me - I do still have hope that she will come to her senses, I do still have hope that the marriage will work, but ever time I get a little hope - a message of despair comes - crushing my hope.  

Malignant hope –

I truly beleive that she wants me to suffer - in fact at one time I wrote a note that the only time she seemed happy was when she made me feel miserable... .  I guess misery does love company.

She is not making you suffer – you are allowing it.

She is suffering and yes if you don’t maintain your own independent thought, you will feel miserable.

Look after you – build your self worth – you are not what she said you were – begin to believe that.

[fakename]

Clearmind as Long as you're on this role how about throwing some attention my way.

What are your thoughts on meditation over therapy?

Why so you think therapy is mandatory?

I seem to be navigating through my Road to recovery quite well relying on these boards and other productive practices on my own

[cal644]

Thanks again - my childhood was great and I think that was why we lasted so long - becuase I knew true love, I knew family values, I knew forgiveness - and I do think she mirrored all the positive aspects from me - that's why my T said we lasted so long - but all of those traits she could not keep up  - she lived through me and I lived through giving her everything she didn't have growing up - but unless she loves herself she can never love me the way I want - a true, healthy love

[Clearmind]

Cal, I respectively beg to differ.

A healthy minded person with good relationship skills and sense of self worth does not attach to a Borderline, let alone stay "so long".

Clearmind as Long as you're on this role how about throwing some attention my way.

What are your thoughts on meditation over therapy?

Why so you think therapy is mandatory?

I seem to be navigating through my Road to recovery quite well relying on these boards and other productive practices on my own

Good questions for a new topic FN

[cal644]

Well - I don't know if we would have got together but we got pregnant in highschool - so me being the family value oriented type of person I married her - we've had issues up and down over the years -(mostly me not understanding her getting upset/angry over little things)  and it kinda helped she was more of a waif BPD - so she was more the quit hate type - especially self hate - but that's why I gave her attention all the time - it wasn't till she found her new "white knight" that things went south - very quickly ... .  it amazed me that I kept her in the idalization stage for soo many years (upto a month before her affiar) and maybe I just had so much self confidence that I never thought she would leave me. Hell most women would die for a man like me ... .  she's even told me that - I would have a line of women waiting for me and that I deserved someone better... .    just not the one I gave my heart too 

[Clearmind]

Would you say that your "white knight" tendencies kept you in the relationship for as long as you did?

Where does your white knight tendencies come from? Why are you attracted to a damsel in distress?

White Knights seek out partners who need rescuing – those that are in fact emotionally unavailable and provide a plethora of clues as to why they cannot commit. These are those red flags.

White Knights hope to receive admiration, validation and even love from their partners by attempting to rescue. Was it about you that was seeking love in all the wrong places?

I still ask myself why - even though I know the reason

What is the reason?

[cal644]

I would definately say I am a white knight - i always have been.  I look to help those in need, I'm the type that buys a sandwhich for a homeless guy, does things for others even when I don't have the time to, am always willing to help out those in need.  I do look for the damsel in distress - so I do feel good about myself for saving them and feel like my life is worth something more than a meer existance so that my life has a purpose.  As for the question of I still ask myself why - the reason is she is mentally ill (I've come to accept that more and more each day) and is incableble of giving or receiving the deep love that developes in healthier relationships - the worst part throughout our whole marriage I never did feel that she truly loved me the way I loved her - I felt more like her provider/protector/father figure than I ever did her husband.   :'(

[imstronghere2]

As for the question of I still ask myself why - the reason is she is mentally ill (I've come to accept that more and more each day) and is incableble of giving or receiving the deep love that developes in healthier relationships - the worst part throughout our whole marriage I never did feel that she truly loved me the way I loved her - I felt more like her provider/protector/father figure than I ever did her husband.   :'(

I'm right with you on this, exactly.  I kept hoping my exwBPD would some day become the wife and mother we always wanted.  Hoping that it was just around the corner.  That if we can keep it together for just awhile longer, she'll break out of her shell and become what we we need.  Never happened and never would.  What she became was the person she always was, and here I am with my kids, our home and our animals, without her.

She never allowed herself to be happy and never fully invested in our relationship.  Always kept herself at a distance and I believe that was to "protect" herself from getting hurt.  That old fear of abandonment kicking in.  I wore myself out beyond the point of exhaustion trying to prove my love and devotion that I lost myself in the process.  What a waste of years.

Never again. 

[Clearmind]

I would definately say I am a white knight - i always have been. 

Definitely worth exploring the reason behind this.

[Cumulus]

Hi cal, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. It was just that I kept thinking your posts  sound so much like what I feel, what I went through. How long were you married? My xBPDh and I were married at nineteen and the marriage lasted over 25 years. Its hard to explain why I put up with so much disrespect. I guess because it was all so mixed in with, my wife is queen of the world and I adore her, no one can do anything as good as my wife. Why, when I'd made a commitment to another person and my marriage, would I leave. So what if my needs weren't  being met by him, what marriage is perfect. I'm not needy, I'll meet my needs myself and so began more education, running ( I was almost like Forrest Gump at one point) classes in crafts, art, women's groups, working late. Anything to give my life  what I didn't get from my marriage. As time went on, I began to feel more like he was my child. That was the kind of love I felt for him. I don't know if I felt like the white knight (knightress?) but I did feel like he needed me to navigate through life, to be a bridge between him and our kids, to provide friendship and help him learn to relate better to others. It doesn't start out like that, the process is insidious. One drop at a time until the bucket is heavier then you can carry. He didn't leave me, I left him. But, I think it would only have been a matter of time. I found out after the separation that he had a whole other life. He had multiple affairs, probably starting around the fourth year of marriage. I wish he had left me years ago, I'm not sure why he stayed except to say I made a real comfortable home for him.

I guess the better question is why did I stay. I'd say commitment. I did find out about one affair and stayed. It was devastating, and I told him then if there was ever another affair that was the end. It took me ten more years to find out about the next one but that was it, I was done. It was a release from the commitment I felt.

Thanks for your post. Oh and all those good times, I thought we had them too, now I wonder what was in his head, what was he really thinking, so those good times aren't so good any more, they feel fake to me now.

[cal644]

We were married 19 years. As for me being the parent - there is alot of truth to that.  I expanded her friendship circle as most of our friends were mine first or I developed the friendships as she only had 1 friend of her own from work.  I brought her to know church and God. I helped her advance in her carrier as I always encouraged her to try for a new promotion and would do her resume for her.  In fact she went back to college and I wrote her final paper for her because she was too stressed and wanted to drop the class (with only one paper left!).  I brought her new experiences, brought her to try out new foods, brought her to places in the country she never would have went to, provided her with things she could never have, loved her like she had never been loved.  Took care of her when she was sick, sad, depressed.  I cooked, cleaned, all the little household stuff.  Maybe that's why its so hard - maybe it's like raising a child and watching them make the stupidest mistake in their life and not being able to do a damn thing about it.  I feel betrayed - after all that I have loved, done, and provided to be left and forgotten like a drop of the hat.  In fact the other day when we were dividing some of the small household stuff she screamed at me - I don't want a damn thing from you, I don't want a single memmory from the last 19 years (OUCH!) that statement killed me.

[Cumulus]

Oh Cal, I am sorry, that sounded so hurtful. It seems a part of the illness is their ability to know right where they can't hurt the most. I keep saying I was in the marriage over 25 years, cal it was significantly over 25 years, really I am embarrassed and hurt to even admit that. Think how your life would be twenty years from now if you were still with her. Knowing that your relationship had never matured or grown. That you have lived the years of your youth and manhood providing the emotional needs for both your wife and yourself. There is nothing but an empty shell of a relationship. And now you are an old man and ready to enter the later years of your life, still alone, never having known what it was like to have a loving wife by your side. Or, do you think if you had twenty more years with her that you could help her become that wonderful helpmate, lover and wife that you know you deserve.

I saw in another thread that it is your daughters birthday today. Those special moments make this process that much more difficult. Mango had good advice, start some new traditions. Thirteen, what a grown up girl she is becoming, how fortunate to have a loving dad.