When is it okay to intervene?

[inepted]

I know the general consensus when dealing with someone with BPD is to not intervene in their actions, to not try and control them.

But, is there ever a time when it is okay? My pwBPD and I have been getting along pretty well the last week. So comfortable she started talking about how excited she was about an upcoming event next week. Id rather not go into the details, but I was rather stunned when she told me about it. As she was talking, so many red flags were going off, all thats going through my mind is ":)o you have any idea how incredibly dangerous this sounds?"  I didn't say it out loud. Instead I just nodded and asked her more about the details.

Of course, I could confront her, and ask if she realizes how dangerous this sounds. But I know that wont accomplish anything. She would get mad and tell me I wouldn't get it. Its her life, her body, etc. I could confront her parents about it, and let them handle it seeing as she's 22 and lives with them, and they pay for everything for her. Would they, could they stop her from going? Yes. But it wouldn't really solve anything. She wont realize how incredibly dangerous it is and the harm she's putting herself in...

Im so conflicted. My instincts are telling me to do something about it and not let her go through with this. I could let her go. All the lessons say to let her go do go, let her fail and make mistakes. Theres a small chance nothing dangerous will come of it. But for her own health and safety, is it okay to step in and do something?

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[Grey Kitty]

I think that giving us more details of what would be dangerous would help us give you better advice.

Around here, I have seen many recommendations of calling police/etc. (9-1-1) for situations where a person was violent or suicidal. Other situations--it usually comes across as trying to control another person, and that isn't a happy experience.

Given the lack of details, I would put confronting her parents in the category of "Sounds like a bad idea to Grey Kitty"

[inepted]

You're right. Even writing it I was thinking this all sounds rather vague and not much details. Its not so far as being suicidal. To put it bluntly, shes going to go with someone twice her age that she's known for all of two weeks, to what essentially can be summed up as a hardcore BDSM sex party. Against my own better judgement I did google him and even he seems sketchy to say the least.

Her rationale to why there isn't anything wrong with it? "He does this all the time, hes inviting me along as his 'special guest' " Just wow.

[inepted]

All joking aside -- this is not your girlfriend or wantta be or anything, right?  If so kick her to the curb.  Life is far too short to live in and/or with garbage.

Well, after a month off, we were starting to work things out the past few days, and she tells me about this. Since her suicide attempt, Its like every week she finds a new way to sabotage things with the people closest to her. One day it seems like she truly is trying to change, to focus on finding work, doing therapy and DBT classes, and the next, shes incredibly reckless. Honestly, I'm a little surprised she is still finding ways to surprise me like this.

[Auspicious]

As you say, it's her life.

In general, you could try the "I wonder" tool. "Wow, you sound pretty excited. I wonder if it could be dangerous, though?" Sometimes you can get the other person to think through the dangers themselves, instead of lecturing to them as if they were a child.


(That said ... .  if this were someone I was romantically interested in, I can't imagine continuing that interest with someone who would even consider this. That's me and my values, though.)

[Rockylove]

Honestly, I'm a little surprised she is still finding ways to surprise me like this.

I almost have to chuckle, but I'll say welcome to the world of BPD instead.  Just when everything is going along the best, my bf will do or say something that blows me away.  

Sometimes the light's all shinin' on me

Other times I can barely see

Lately it occurs to me

What a long strange trip it's been.

(Truckin' by Grateful Dead)  

As for your gal and her finding "... .  new way(s) to sabotage things with the people closest to her" it doesn't surprise me in the least.  If she's going to therapy she may be opening up some serious wounds and dealing with her fear and uncertainty in the only way she knows how.  It may take a while before she unlearns the behaviors that have become part of her defense mechanism.  

Fear of abandonment is so intense in pwBPD that they often can't bear to get too emotionally close because that would make the pain even more intense if they were abandoned.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79300

If you have read this Lesson, re-read over and again.  If you haven't read it... .  it's worth reading~~over and again.

[Grey Kitty]

Sounds like time for you to practice detachment from her--it is her life, doing this is her choice.

From my POV, I would say that a BDSM party is something that some people like. I don't expect myself to be one of them, but I'm hesitant to say I absolutely won't like anything until I try it. And I'm just not ready to go there... .   

Also from my POV, the bit about going with a guy she just met sounds pretty high risk. How do you really feel about the possibility of getting back involved with someone waving these red flags?   

[inepted]

Sounds like time for you to practice detachment from her--it is her life, doing this is her choice.

Ive been thinking about it a lot for the last few days since she told me about her plans, and thats what I plan on doing.

Its not so much that I have a problem with the party really, I understand some people are into it, and to each their own. Its the fact she's going with someone so much older than she is that she just met, and just the minor details she was telling me, how oblivious she is to all the red flags about this guy. Thats the part that troubles me the most.

It just appears like her actions lately are all out of spite. At least that seems to be the consensus with her T and parents tell me. For as long as Ive known her, everything she is doing right now are things I know are explicitly going against her own principles. Or maybe the girl I knew for the last few years never really existed. Im not sure anymore.

[inepted]

Also from my POV, the bit about going with a guy she just met sounds pretty high risk. How do you really feel about the possibility of getting back involved with someone waving these red flags?   

As far as how i feel about the possibility of getting back together with someone like her? I talked with my own therapist about this. And despite the things she has done, I do still want to try and make things work. The good times we've had still outweigh the bad. And Im not really one to hold a grudge. To me what's in the past is in the past. And when we were together, she's proven she can be incredibly supportive and dependable. She accepts she has issues, and I believe she does want to work on it. Or perhaps Im just fooling myself. I guess time will tell.

[yeeter]

I do understand that some people are into the BDSM stuff.  No biggie in and of itself (my opinion).  BUT - the bigger flag to me is to be doing it - or any sexual exploration - with someone that she has know for such little time.     For me, sexual exploration is done with someone I have developed a deep TRUST with.  You cant do it with someone you just met.

Then there are real, and significant physical dangers (not just things getting out of hand in the moment, but long term STD's are a high probability.  I read somewhere that 4/5 people have Herpes virus?... .  I dont know, but that seemed crazy high to me and if you are sleeping with someone that has other partners (who then have other partners), a STD pretty quickly becomes a statistically certainty))

THEN - the other   you wrote is that she is motivated to participate in this as much out of spite than genuine interest on her part.  So in effect, a teenager type of behavior of acting out and proving to the world that nobody controls her.  And I would suggest (and I know this is judgmental), that many people are in these lifestyles because they have some underlying emotional insecurities - unfortunately the environment isnt really going to help them with those.

It adds up to what I would categorize as reckless behavior.  And if you are still having sex with her, puts you at risk indirectly.

If it were my gf - I wouldnt necessarily say she couldnt go - but it would be with ME.    (ok, there is probably something wrong with that statement but I will let it be for now)  Not some third party person she just met (and no, in general, I would not be ok with her having sex with others given this situation/setup).  

[inepted]

I do understand that some people are into the BDSM stuff.  No biggie in and of itself (my opinion).  BUT - the bigger flag to me is to be doing it - or any sexual exploration - with someone that she has know for such little time.     For me, sexual exploration is done with someone I have developed a deep TRUST with.  You cant do it with someone you just met.

Then there are real, and significant physical dangers (not just things getting out of hand in the moment, but long term STD's are a high probability.  I read somewhere that 4/5 people have Herpes virus?... .  I dont know, but that seemed crazy high to me and if you are sleeping with someone that has other partners (who then have other partners), a STD pretty quickly becomes a statistically certainty))

THEN - the other   you wrote is that she is motivated to participate in this as much out of spite than genuine interest on her part.  So in effect, a teenager type of behavior of acting out and proving to the world that nobody controls her.  And I would suggest (and I know this is judgmental), that many people are in these lifestyles because they have some underlying emotional insecurities - unfortunately the environment isnt really going to help them with those.

It adds up to what I would categorize as reckless behavior.  And if you are still having sex with her, puts you at risk indirectly.

If it were my gf - I wouldnt necessarily say she couldnt go - but it would be with ME.    (ok, there is probably something wrong with that statement but I will let it be for now)  Not some third party person she just met (and no, in general, I would not be ok with her having sex with others given this situation/setup).  

Exactly my thoughts. She still hasn't decided what she still wants to do with 'us'. Then again i really havent tried dancing around the conversation lately. When we talk it's like old times. We laugh and have fun. We just get along so naturally. But then at the same time she seems hellbent on proving she doesn't need anyone and no one can control her.

And, I have no plans on sleeping with her again until she does get tested for STDs. That is IF we do work things out.

[LetItBe]

And, I have no plans on sleeping with her again until she does get tested for STDs. That is IF we do work things out.

Please take care of yourself and educate yourself thoroughly if you decide to re-engage sexually with her.  Some STD's cannot be detected in men (like HPV), and some take a long time to show up.  Herpes can only be detected by a specific blood test so be sure to ask for a separate test for that.  Also, there is no fool-proof method (even condoms) for preventing the spread of herpes.

Also, I understand what you mean about her seeming "hellbent on proving she doesn't need anyone and no one can control her."  My uBPDbf has a very difficult time admitting to needing anyone and has always felt he has to do everything on his own.  He can also interpret just about anything as an effort to control him.  He is a BPD Hermit, and they have huge fears of being dominated.  It can be tricky expressing your desires and concerns to pwBPD, can't it?

[arabella]

Agree with the above posts... .  Here's something I don't think has been mentioned yet: if you try to stop her, she will stop telling you things (there's a trust issue here). And if you tell her parents, she will know you told them. Are you willing to risk being 'out of the loop' indefinitely?