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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Finally brokedown today, in tears  (Read 2311 times)
jaird
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« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 05:52:31 PM »

I'm sorry and wish words could erase some of this agony. As for me I'm left trying to figure out what happened as well. Left wondering if any part of it was true or real. Wondering if I was so completely seduced to believe that I was living something that felt like it was more real than anything I ever had before, what that ultimately means about my own issues.

I'm left analyzing my own co-dependency issues and everything associated with the reasons why I was the one that stayed and was the one dumped by my uBPD ex.

I am now looking at myself to try and find the reasons why I was so enmeshed with a person that might not even have been 'there'.

Elementia, don't blame yourself. I know it is status quo here for some people to suggest that we had codependency issues, and we are all enablers, codependent, and "fixers". And yes, it seems many of us, myself included, are people pleasers and want to fix things/people.

That does not mean we have some inherent fault. I certainly can't blame myself for not realizing that my ex was not "real", in that her feelings were fleeting and she was manipulative, and basically faked the final two months of our relationship. That is not my fault. I never met someone so devious and dishonest before. I was perhaps gullible, but that is not really a bad quality. I accept people at face value, and if they tell me they love me, and that I am wonderful for them, and it feels that way to me too, why would I doubt it?

This doesn't necessarily mean that I have "issues", at least not beyond being bored and getting enmeshed with a woman who lavished a lot of time and effort on me.

I asked my ex recently if she meant the things she said, all the praise she had heaped on me. She said yes, she meant all of them. Now, she could be lying, but it's more probably that she mean them WHEN she said them. It's just that her thoughts changed and her emotions changed, and she was able to fall out of love with me as quickly as she fell in love with me. It's like the solid core of a person, the beliefs that do not change or vary much, is missing in these people.
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jaird
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« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2013, 05:59:26 PM »

 paperlung

How are you today?

Every morning I wake up feeling the same; anxious. I guess it's from the dreams.

Just going through the motions right now. Probably gonna go to the gym in a bit before work. I got two finals next week that I gotta start studying for as well. Fortunately, my grades haven't suffered throughout this ordeal.

The dreams are the subconscious working things out. It is normal. Both me and my ex have/had them. They will lessen with time.

I am also finding that NC lessens the anxiety very much. I think of how I used to wake up and think "are we good today, or did we fight last night". Fighting was not even fighting, as all i tried to do was defend myself. Fighting in hindsight was really her raging over whatever she felt.

Also gone are those feelings which were in the morning something like 'Oh good, we fought, she's out of my life". And in the evening "Oh my God, I lost her and she was the best thing that ever happened to me". All is calm now. It is the same day in and day out. I am lucky enough to have a kind and loving person that has stood by me. Someone who is the same day in and day out. That helps a lot. I still miss some things about my ex, and I remember how good we were when we were together, but the truth is, she is gone. And it's better I found out how she was after a 27 month affair, then to wait 26 years to find out like her ex husband did. I really feel for that guy.

[/b]
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2013, 06:44:57 PM »

I've had plenty of times like that since we parted ways, and have created a recipe that helps:

1. Remember that she's not a bad person, she's a sick one.

2. Remember that her feelings, all of them, were real to her, and the fact that I triggered her BPD traits meant I really mattered for a time.

3. Review the list I made of all the rages, lies, manipulations, disrespectful comments and abuse, to change my focus.

4. Make sure to take care of myself very well.

5. Make sure I stay NC.
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jaird
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« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2013, 07:10:36 PM »

I've had plenty of times like that since we parted ways, and have created a recipe that helps:

1. Remember that she's not a bad person, she's a sick one.

2. Remember that her feelings, all of them, were real to her, and the fact that I triggered her BPD traits meant I really mattered for a time.

3. Review the list I made of all the rages, lies, manipulations, disrespectful comments and abuse, to change my focus.

4. Make sure to take care of myself very well.

5. Make sure I stay NC.

I'm not sure I agree with number 1, LOL. I think it's 50-50, LOL

and number 3, I have forgotten or blocked out much of what she raged about. Half of it was nonsensical anyway. She would forget half of what she said by the next morning, and really so much of it was just BS anyway. It was like the same circuitous conversation for months on end.
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2013, 07:11:08 PM »

It's like the solid core of a person, the beliefs that do not change or vary much, is missing in these people.

WOW  Idea

I can't tell you what reading what you wrote did to simplify the critical explanation that I have been struggling to understand. Somehow you wrote the right words so that it could finally hit home. It was, in a nutshell the missing link for me in understanding the very thing that kept eluding me. Thank you, I can now come to terms with the fact that I have to come to terms with it sad and tragic as it is. None of us can fix that inside them but it makes it easier to understand at least that we will forever remain outside their reach even if we are embracing them.

Thank you for the words that are working their way to setting me free one step at a time.
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Seb
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« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2013, 07:22:41 PM »

I had this today paper lung, I feel your pain 

I've been very upset tonight - for some reason, first time I've cried in ages - just can't get the thought out of my head... .  

I want her to feel this pain she's put me through.
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jaird
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« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 07:35:51 PM »

I'm very happy I could help. I know what it's like and light bulb goes off in your head. Bit by bit you start to see the illness for how serious it is, how disordered they are.

One of the traits of BPD is few or no core values. My ex read that recently and answered some questions online and decided she does not have that trait. But she does. Just because she can point to one or two issues (gay rights, abortion rights) that she has firm beliefs in that do not change, does not mean that she really has a sense of core values. It is more about all the other values/beliefs that are nonexistent or do change.

I'll tell you a few things about my ex, to illustrate:

She had an eight year on and off affair while she was married. She blamed the affair on her ex, saying that he refused to go for drinks after work with her, so the affair started. Mind you, the man worked all day and she worked evenings. The man was tired after work and watching their four kids, two of them were not even his kids, they were biologically only her kids. And it was not just after work, she hung out all night and some afternoons too.

She claimed that, after being with her ex husband for 26 years, and married to him for 22 years, that he was a bad communicator, talked at her not with her, and did not listen to her. These were her reasons for wanting a divorce. No effort to work on these things, just throw the ass out!

She claimed to be Catholic, but never attended mass, and believed in abortion. When I pointed out to her that she could not really be Catholic if she believed in abortion, she then told me that she did not believe Jesus Christ ever rose from the dead either! I told her she should just stop claiming to be Catholic.

She claimed to be a witch too, but she never even studied Wiccan or showed any interest in it. It was more like "I light candles and dress up as a witch on Halloween".

She is fixated on pop culture, music that teenagers like, what celebrities are doing, movies for teenagers, all superficial stuff. There is no real intellectual depth to her. She cannot really have a serious discussion about any current issue. And mind you, she is not a stupid person, not by a long shot. She just does not have the interest or the willpower to learn about things. She does not want to do any hard work, whether it is working on a relationship, or learning about an issue. her mind freezes and she just shrugs it off as something that is too much trouble.

With the US election last November, she was all for the Libertarian candidate because her son told her he was the best candidate. But her views are hardcore Democrat, pretty much the opposite of the Libertarians. Then she told me how someone at work had berated Obama, and all the bad things that would come to pass if he were reelected. I told her to read and make her own decision. She talked about politics for months, but it was always what someone else said. She was just repeating. And she said she would not vote, and she did not vote. So why the big fuss about it all and all the talk?

I guess I could go on and on, I'm sure there are more examples. But I see her as a chameleon. She changes moods and has no real opinion. She is like a leaf in the wind, and bounces from relationship to relationship (her first husband did not even speak English, and she did not speak Spanish!). She makes no plans for the future in any way- no savings, no retirement fund, and then seems to blame her lot on something else, like not having a man to take care of her.
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« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2013, 12:06:04 AM »

Jaird it is interesting to me how tortured they are but resilient at the same time. Even though they are as ill as they are they have managed to find a way to 'cope' irregardless of how that affects others. They live to 'feed' much like a virus finding a host until they are destroyed or move on. For them it is about survival in what ever way they know how to survive. It is subconscious for the most part and conscious at the same time. It's like my ex would say to me "no one can save me. I am alone. In the end everyone will hurt me and leave me. It doesn't matter how much I love you, your not enough because you are separated from me, therefore I am alone".

I wonder if their souls are fractured and floating around in lost pieces somewhere out in the universe? These are all sad stories that re-iterate the story of a lost people in a lost world. Perhaps the biological result of the great dis-function that is our modern world.   

I have no idea except for the fact that there is nothing we can do and there is nothing we can change except to learn and hopefully never repeat the experience. Once is enough for a life time.
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BorderlineMagnet
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« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2013, 12:36:48 AM »

I'm someone who has experienced 2 pwBPD in my lifetime, and I can say the experience was radically different in many ways, similar in others, but painful regardless. One of them emotionally tortured me and wore me down for 5 years, much like Paperlung's ex. The other was incredibly kind and loving to me, yet when she feared abandonment, she took all that away from me, and left before she could be left. They both did things like project, idealize, devalue, self-prophesize, and speak in opposites. While one hated and raged at me, the other was simply inconsistent. The pain that both inflicted on me will take a long time for me to heal, and at this point I really do want one of them back. I can't save her or change her, but I can at least guarantee that while she is with me she and her children will be safe from those who may lash out at her because they don't understand her disorder. So while I agree once in a lifetime is enough, it feels I might have a chance at doing things differently a second time through if she allows a reconnect, and I employ SET, and am more prepared for what may trigger her fears. There are people inside of the disorder, and I have seen the good in both of them. While one is a lost cause entirely (just left rehab early, likely to abuse drugs again), the other may just be lost (back in her cycle of lowlifes out to use her for sex). I'm not saying I can find her, I just know that the person I've seen inside this disorder is a wonderful mom and a sweet person that I still care for very much.
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kampuniform
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« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2013, 01:07:28 AM »

You’ll pardon me if I’m repeating a sentiment that has already been expressed in this forum, but a key feature of the healing process is recognizing that all of our stories are surprisingly similar, if not identical.

This feature is distinctive, because it means that the horrible behaviour we endured was universal, and not personal.

In other words, their behaviour was independent of us; their actions are entirely scripted on a perpetually looped tape.

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« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2013, 01:10:17 AM »

You’ll pardon me if I’m repeating a sentiment that has already been expressed in this forum, but a key feature of the healing process is recognizing that all of our stories are surprisingly similar, if not identical.

This feature is distinctive, because it means that the horrible behaviour we endured was universal, and not personal.

In other words, their behaviour was independent of us; their actions are entirely scripted on a perpetually looped tape.

Perfectly said. Therefore, the end my friend is always a sad tragedy of heart break and disappointment.
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jaird
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« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2013, 09:57:26 AM »

a perpetually looped tape

That's a good analogy. At the end, my exes mind was like a tape that played over and over. She could not even have a civil conversation with me. She could not discuss the most routine matters, kids, health, etc. Every conversation went almost immediately to things I had done to upset her, no matter how long ago those things happened, or if I was unaware that she felt slighted, or if I had apologized months or years ago several times for whatever I did wrong. There was just a tape she played in her head that I was bad for a few reasons, some of which were not even real.
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paperlung
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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2013, 02:48:13 AM »

Finally did it. I spent the last 2 hours reading over our text messages then I deleted them all. Didn't feel a thing. Wasn't saddening this time.

Today I see my therapist for the first time; it's a 75 minute session. Do I ever have a story to tell.

One message she sent to me that I found rather interesting was that she didn't think I should be with her anymore because she was just going to drag me down. To be prepared if I were to continue the relationship because she would just spiral more out of control (which she did). Creepy.
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babyducks
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« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2013, 07:56:42 AM »

It's like the solid core of a person, the beliefs that do not change or vary much, is missing in these people.

I have to come to terms with it sad and tragic as it is. None of us can fix that inside them but it makes it easier to understand at least that we will forever remain outside their reach even if we are embracing them.

This sums up so much for me.  thank you
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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2013, 09:51:29 AM »

One message she sent to me that I found rather interesting was that she didn't think I should be with her anymore because she was just going to drag me down. To be prepared if I were to continue the relationship because she would just spiral more out of control (which she did). Creepy.

Interesting Paperlung my ex used to tell me the exact thing literally in lucid moments. He would actually be in a quiet torment telling me that he was going to drag me down and hurt me real bad. He would actually cry and sometimes beg me and say that I should just leave him. Creepy indeed.

Then after the period of exposed tormented weakness confessing his fears of what he would do to me always in a pain and agony. He would say that there was nothing he could do like he was himself a victim of what ever was causing him to do that. These were his lucid moments because the majority of emotional dys-regulated episodes and rages were ALWAYS my fault.  It was only when he was in his most weakened state that he would admit that he would drag me down and destroy me. 

So in a strange way he knew. He knew but felt himself a victim of what ever was causing him to 'do' that, behave that way and ultimately sabotage everything in his life. I think he begged me to break up with him 5 different times throughout the two years during those weakened moments of emotional exhaustion. Like he was just worn out enough to see 'clear' for small periods.

So sad. 
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BorderlineMagnet
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2013, 12:39:22 PM »

If you listen to them in these lucid moments they will foreshadow and confess a lot of things. Sometimes in a roundabout way, other times straight out. It's like speaking a different language somedays. Even when they are not lucid many times they will "tell" on themselves by what they say or do. The emotional maturity of a 3-5 year old. What do 3-5 year olds do when you catch them being naughty? They generally put on a show. BPD's do it to. It's almost like a built in lie detector that fails them at their worst moments. People say don't hang on their words, which is true, but really listen to their words instead if you want to know whats really going on.
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paperlung
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2013, 02:41:32 PM »

Had my first T-session this morning. It went well. Going again 2 weeks from now. Even with 75 minutes, there was so much more I wanted to say.

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thesurvivor

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« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2013, 03:47:19 AM »

Good for you., Oh yeah, I think I could write a book of all the things I want to say to a therapist.  I could go on and on, but just keep going.

It sounds like over the course of this thread you are doing really well, alot better.  I'm proud of you man, you give me hope that I can be strong too and escape.

So you just hang in there, and don't do what I do, and start to forget the bad stuff and only remember the good stuff after a while.  You're in a good place right now, cherish that good, healthy place.

Wake up and be grateful for one more day you are free and kep it up and have many happy days of healing and freedom ahead.

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paperlung
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« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2013, 04:04:46 AM »

Good for you., Oh yeah, I think I could write a book of all the things I want to say to a therapist.  I could go on and on, but just keep going.

It sounds like over the course of this thread you are doing really well, alot better.  I'm proud of you man, you give me hope that I can be strong too and escape.

So you just hang in there, and don't do what I do, and start to forget the bad stuff and only remember the good stuff after a while.  You're in a good place right now, cherish that good, healthy place.

Wake up and be grateful for one more day you are free and kep it up and have many happy days of healing and freedom ahead.

Thanks, thesurvivor! Smiling (click to insert in post)

What's really helped me detach is that I've stopped checking in on her; Facebook, Twitter, ect. I'm at the point now where I just don't even care what she's up to. That ship has sailed, she can do whatever she wants with her life. I've got my own to live, after all. Plus the fact that I haven't talked to her in almost 2 months helps, too.
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thesurvivor

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« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2013, 04:16:03 AM »

Lol, I know the checking Facebook thing, believe me, I'll bet half of people in break ups sit there looking at their ex's Facebook!

2 Months, that's pretty good.  If you think about it, I'll bet you feel alot better than you did a month ago, so... .   by that logic, next month, and next month, it just get's easier, the hard part's behind you really.

Try not to backslide, you'll be fine, this is a success story here, I'm telling ya.
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imstronghere2
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« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2013, 05:37:35 AM »

If you listen to them in these lucid moments they will foreshadow and confess a lot of things. Sometimes in a roundabout way, other times straight out. It's like speaking a different language somedays. Even when they are not lucid many times they will "tell" on themselves by what they say or do. The emotional maturity of a 3-5 year old. What do 3-5 year olds do when you catch them being naughty? They generally put on a show. BPD's do it to. It's almost like a built in lie detector that fails them at their worst moments. People say don't hang on their words, which is true, but really listen to their words instead if you want to know whats really going on.

That is so true.  In the end, my exwBPD said about her affair "It wouldn't have mattered who she was married to".   She also said ":)on't try to make sense out of it.  It doesn't make sense" about any of her actions.  When I was trying to figure out options on what we could do to salvage our marriage, she said "It won't make any difference.   I'll just do it again", meaning have more affairs.  It was as if she was admitting that she can't control herself, which was true. 
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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2013, 05:59:08 AM »

Posted by: imstronghere2 

Insert Quote

Quote from: BorderlineMagnet on Yesterday at 12:39:22 PM

If you listen to them in these lucid moments they will foreshadow and confess a lot of things. Sometimes in a roundabout way, other times straight out. It's like speaking a different language somedays. Even when they are not lucid many times they will "tell" on themselves by what they say or do. The emotional maturity of a 3-5 year old. What do 3-5 year olds do when you catch them being naughty? They generally put on a show. BPD's do it to. It's almost like a built in lie detector that fails them at their worst moments. People say don't hang on their words, which is true, but really listen to their words instead if you want to know whats really going on.


That is so true.  In the end, my exwBPD said about her affair "It wouldn't have mattered who she was married to".   She also said ":)on't try to make sense out of it.  It doesn't make sense" about any of her actions.  When I was trying to figure out options on what we could do to salvage our marriage, she said "It won't make any difference.   I'll just do it again", meaning have more affairs.  It was as if she was admitting that she can't control herself, which was true.   




Exactly true in my case, she went as far as to say "Ill just start seeing someone else without saying anything".  She ended up doing exactly that, its like a little kid that makes the mistake of saying outloud their thoughts around their parents.  No matter what you do to meet their ultimatums or major points of contention for them that they complain is the problem in the relationship it is about them doing whatever they want to when they want to.  They will never truly be happy, satisfied, or content. 
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thesurvivor

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« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2013, 02:06:53 PM »

I sometimes forget the totally different kind of pain those of you that have a SO who has BPD, compared to a mother. 
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momtara
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« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2013, 02:08:54 PM »

Reading the texts only reminds you of the good.  Sometimes you have to remind yourself of the bad, too.
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mac274

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« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2013, 03:35:43 PM »

I always knew I wasn't going to marry this girl. Not unless she got her ___ together/resolved her problems one day. Just way too many issues. She would even say to me from time to time, "I'm never going to be what you want me to be." I don't even think she knows what/who wants to be. It's really sad.

I felt the same way about my ex. If she was ever able to get it together, and think and behave in a civil manner, I would have given her the church wedding she claimed she wanted and did not have in her two previous marriages. But that was a big "if".

And mine said the same strange things after breakup and before. "I could never be what you want me to be". "I'll never be enough for you". "I should have just been myself instead of trying so hard to please you". "You would never be happy with me"., and all those type of things. I have no idea what she was even talking about. I loved her for who she was, keyword here is "was". I had no idea she was trying to be anyone else or trying too hard to please me. I'm not even sure if any of that is true. Might just be more strange thoughts and feelings with no basis in reality.

My Ex would explain her reasoning in the same way.

Especially after everything blew up and she got caught red handed.

I was trying to understand WHY she did all these nasty things for at least 11 of the 14 years we were together.

Confusing? Yep. Reality? Unfortuneately, yes.
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imstronghere2
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« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2013, 07:22:56 AM »

I sometimes forget the totally different kind of pain those of you that have a SO who has BPD, compared to a mother. 

I had the worst of both worlds.  My mother was a raging queen/witch variety and when I moved out at age 18, it took me two months to realize what "normal" really was like.  I never went back after that except to visit.  Spent the next 10 years recovering and trying to get myself to where I thought I had it ok.  Then the exwBPD comes along and sinks her fangs in to me and I'm hooked up for the next 22 years until she completely wigs out and abandons all of us. 

Yes, the pain is different.  I was able to detach emotionally from my mother at a very young age but I held a lot of anger and resentment because of that.  When my exwBPD went off the charts, it threw me in to a world of torment that I still struggle with and probably always will.  It opened up all the core wounds that I thought were buried deep enough that I'd never have to deal with them again.  Like AA says - "one day at a time".
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« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2013, 06:23:44 PM »

I sometimes forget the totally different kind of pain those of you that have a SO who has BPD, compared to a mother. 

I had the worst of both worlds.  My mother was a raging queen/witch variety and when I moved out at age 18, it took me two months to realize what "normal" really was like.  I never went back after that except to visit.  Spent the next 10 years recovering and trying to get myself to where I thought I had it ok.  Then the exwBPD comes along and sinks her fangs in to me and I'm hooked up for the next 22 years until she completely wigs out and abandons all of us. 

Yes, the pain is different.  I was able to detach emotionally from my mother at a very young age but I held a lot of anger and resentment because of that.  When my exwBPD went off the charts, it threw me in to a world of torment that I still struggle with and probably always will.  It opened up all the core wounds that I thought were buried deep enough that I'd never have to deal with them again.  Like AA says - "one day at a time".

Interesting because like you imstronghere2 my mother was also a raging abusive queen/witch as well. I too left literally on my birthday when I was 18 and moved as far as I could from her. I disconnected from her when I was young so at 18 I was just relieved to never have anything to do with her again. Never saw her again until my dad's funeral last year (typically that was another unbelievable drama). I spent a lot of time like you working on my life and gathering my own positive narrative. 27 years later I meet my ex and began being strangely triggered as well as seeing myself 'respond' in a similar way to when I was protecting myself from my witch of a mother. I always wondered why it felt so 'right' and 'normal' to be with my ex because I knew it wasn't healthy or normal yet I was magnetically compelled, transfixed and plugged right into him. It was truly so strange and twisted.

I'm only now starting to understand the parallels to my mother, the triggers, my responses and why I felt right at home with my ex even though I often was in a state of fear, anxiety, panic and deep pain. The core wounds you describe are exactly what I was faced with after believing that I had 'escaped'. In a strange way it is because of my ex that I am actually dealing with those core wounds in a way that I know is healthier and will ultimately result in my emancipation. I fear however that it will take time and the road is not yet cleared of debris.

Like you said... .  it can only be one day at a time.

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