I investigated her friend and it's UNREAL. How can I keep him away from my son?

[Vinnie]

My stbxW spends nights at her boyfriend's house with our S9. I had known this guy had a DV restraining order against him, but my wife assured me that she had spoken with his ex-wife who admitted that she made false allegations and that is what resulted in the RO. This ex-wife is the mother of his three kids, whom he has no contact with whatsoever due to the RO.

I believed this story until recently when it became apparent that my wife (who directs a nonprofit for DV) was lying about other stuff.  I called a private investigator, who was nice enough to tell me to save my money and just go down to the county courthouse and ask to see his file.  I did, and the guy is worse than I thought.  Numerous incidents of DV, cocaine and alcohol addiction his entire 10 year marriage, multiple extended stays in residential treatment facilities, violating the RO constantly, etc.

His ex-wife's home address happened to be in the file, so I paid her a visit... .  and sure enough, she had never spoken with my wife. I was lied to! (I have always naively assumed people couldn't possibly lie about things I could never lie about).

His ex also shared with me about his dealings with criminal elements, and that at one point he was plotting to have her killed.

What legal recourse do I have keeping him away from my son?  

Also, how much could it help me in our custody battle, presenting documentation not only how she is exercising poor judgement, but also how she point-blank lied to me about a serious matter involving our son's safety?

[Her Mama]

I would definitely file to have visitation modified based on this information.  And I wouldn't tell her why you're filing for modification until after she's on the stand admitting she takes your child with her to visit this man.  Confront her with the evidence then.  Don't give her time to come up with a defense.  If you have to say something, just say you don't want your son to visit this person at his house or have him go to hers while your son is there.  If you can record that conversation do so, if you can't, do it by email so you can prove you asked her about it and that you do not approve.  Subpoena the ex-wife if you can.

It could make all the difference in the world.  My LB was removed from DOT's home based on that exact type of situation, combined with her own drug use.  Any chance your ex is joining him in his addictions?  Get her drug tested.  With my own son, based on a drug test, I received full custody with visitation at my discretion.

[marbleloser]

Kick a$$! Way to go Vinnie! Get the PI to document the kids being at his house with mom first.That way she can't just lie her way out of it.Any way you can get copies of the court records?Might have to have an atty subpoeana for them. And,DON'T show your hand until you're ready to lay all your cards on the table.

[Vinnie]

One good thing is that my wife's boyfriend, who has just filed with the Court to restore visitation, will likely have to test regularly for substance abuse as a requirement to see his kids.

As far as being able to document my wife lied, I have that covered:  1) I got his ex-wife to give me a written statement that she never spoke with my wife,  2) I have an email from my wife claiming that her boyfriend's ex-wife confessed to making false allegations.  3) Our S9 will verify that he has "his own room" that he sleeps in when he's over there.

I just want to know if there's any way legally I can limit S9's contact with this man. (I doubt my wife would test positive - she's never had any inclination toward substance.)

[marbleloser]

"I just want to know if there's any way legally I can limit S9's contact with this man."

Yes! You can go for primary custody.Courts usually don't want any overnights with someone who isn't a relative,especially a bf/gf,so this is your chance!

"Our S9 will verify that he has "his own room" that he sleeps in when he's over there"

I wouldn't go this route.It puts S9 in the middle.Judge won't like that.Get a PI to verify the overnights.It'll cost you a little money,but this is primary custody material in the making here.You're not even divorced yet and she's letting your S9 sleep over at her bf's house,who has a list of issues,with her there also.Not good on her part.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer spoke to me about signed statements... .  "I can't cross examine a piece of paper."  If her lawyer chooses to object to a signed or even notarized statement being used in court, court may sustain that objection (depending on your state's laws, etc) and you'd have to have the person testify.  Will you be doing depositions?  That might be an alternative way to get his ex's statements made admissible to the court.

According to my ex, long before I was eventually blacklisted, her SF would come into her room at night to do nefarious things while her mother was asleep elsewhere in the residence.  This was a room she shared with her sister.  It was only after both girls were grown and gone that they compared their experiences and found out what had happened to the other.  Their SF had done a thorough job convincing them not to talk or else they'd be blamed for tempting him.

Maybe my example doesn't match exactly your son's situation, but the point is that your son's mother's presence in the same residence won't necessarily protect your son.  A person has to sleep sometimes.  Or go shopping, errands, whatever.

I'm not sure how much it would help, but someone has to question her 'credibility'.  If she's lied in a serious matter - and you have evidence of that - there's no limit to whatever else she might lie about.  However, courts seem to take each incident separately.  (And often each separate incident is discounted separately, then set aside as not rising to the level of being actionable and ignored thereafter.)

In my case, my ex's credibility wasn't negatively mentioned in writing until over 4 years post-separation and 2 years after the final decree.  She had sabotaged a vacation I tried to take between the two major winter break holidays.  She demanded 'her' 4 hour Dec 26 holiday which would have cut my 6 day vacation down to about 4 days, so I had to cancel.  In court she stated in her testimony that though she wasn't of Jewish descent she still wanted to observe Kwanzaa.  That was the only thing the court called 'not credible' - courtspeak for 'liar'.

[Vinnie]

If anyone is following this convoluted saga, here is another development. 

When I spoke with the boyfriend's ex-wife, she told me that she had just sent my wife some of her prior Declarations that led to the restraining order.  The ex-wife knew my wife was a domestic violence advocate and couldn't believe she was sponsoring this abuser in his attempt to restore visitation with his three children.

When I heard she had sent this information to my wife, I thought, "Watch, my wife probably had no idea what a world-class criminal this guy really is, and now she'll probably want to get back together with me."  Well, guess what. She started putting out the recycle feelers today.

I'll let you know how this plays out vis-à-vis our custody mediation on the 28th of this month.

[marbleloser]

" In court she stated in her testimony that though she wasn't of Jewish descent she still wanted to observe Kwanzaa."

I spit my drink out on that one... .

[marbleloser]

Vinnie,don't think she didn't know about this.She's just being "nice" to keep you from using this against her.If she's any kind of "advocate",it looks like she'd have done the same as you and went to the courthouse and pulled records,BEFORE she let your kiddo go to his house!

Either way,you should use this to every advantage you can.

[ForeverDad]

She's just being "nice" to keep you from using this against her... .

Either way,you should use this to every advantage you can.

One of the core difficulties when dealing with pwBPD is that their moods, perceptions and feelings can flip quickly depending on how it affects them.  Truth and facts don't mean near as much as public face (mask of seeming normalcy) and feelings of the moment.

No matter how nice, fair or polite you are to her, you cannot expect her to reciprocate, at least not consistently.  She can be expected to reciprocate only when it benefits her or hides/excuses other misconduct.

As the Scripture says, "Let your eye not feel sorry... . "  That is, beware of crocodile tears of feigned remorse or your words being twisted and used against you.  Do what you have to do for yourself and for your children - standing on principle and stability and not whims, cruelty or vindictiveness as a disordered person might behave.

[DreamGirl]

Are any of the crimes against children?

Was the DV in front of the kids?

[Vinnie]

DreamGirl,

He didn't abuse the kids directly, but they observed him as a slurring, falling down drunk many times, and he did cocaine in the house with them. It doesn't sound like the DV was in front of the kids, but in earshot.

Marbleloser, that's insightful. I do think my wife is done with him, judging by the shift toward me. Yesterday my boy called and begged me to meet them for dinner (took me by surprise; how could I turn him down?). Awkward sitting with her as she had the charm and sweetness going full bore. Three months ago I would have considered reconciling, but now the thought of being married to her is creepy and revolting.

Tonight she kept begging to come by, giving stupid reasons like needing a tube of medicine that's $4 at any CVS, but I stood firm and said no. Her texting ended with, "I told your son you said no." Quintessential FOG.

Won't last long; when she receives the Declaration I just wrote with my attorney today, she'll go back to labeling me "more evil than" her first husband, as if he's the standard by which all the evil in the world is measured.

[marbleloser]

Whatever you do Vinnie,don't have sex with her.You do that and it means,in the courts eyes,that you've forgiven her.She's working that angle,it appears,and using your kiddo to do so.

[Matt]

" In court she stated in her testimony that though she wasn't of Jewish descent she still wanted to observe Kwanzaa."

I spit my drink out on that one... .

Yes, this is an FD classic... . never gets old... .

[Matt]

A few thoughts here... .

First, I agree with Her Mama and everybody - consider filing to have the court order modified to require that S9 have no contact with this guy.  You don't need to characterize him as a monster, just provide the information you have obtained legally, which shows that he has a troubled history - he may be a nice guy who is trying to do better, but that's not the issue - the issue is that being around him is not in S9's interest at this time.  If your ex fights you on this issue, she will show that she is not putting S9's interests first - let that play out so everybody can see that.  She'll probably lose, and look very bad for fighting about it.

However... . I don't think you can do this without disclosing your reasoning.  Where I live, you can't confront someone in court with evidence not provided in advance - that's what they do on TV because it's dramatic, not how things really work (where I live).  You'll have to make your case in your motion, and include supporting documents.  Then if the other side fights it, your lawyer may be able to question your stbX about this issue, and use the evidence you have submitted, about that guy's history, and the court will rule.  :)on't back down - do what you think is best for S9, and if for some reason the court rules against you, you'll know you did your best.

About the lying... . the way I would suggest you look at that, is to first find out your state's criteria for custody.  Many states use 9 criteria developed by Minnesota, or maybe some different ones.  A common one is something like, "Encourages and supports a relationship between Child and the other parent." - that is, the court is supposed to consider which parent has shown the ability and willingness to work in a positive way with the other parent, and not try to interfere with the child's relationship with the other parent.

I think your stbX's lying about important issues shows that she is not willing or able to work with you, so she should not have control.  I would argue that it would be better for you to have primary custody, because you will be able to support S9's relationship with his mother, but if she has control, she has shown she can't be trusted to do that.  You can make that case by referring to that criterion - if it's one of those used in your state - rather than just arguing that lying is bad.

[ForeverDad]

Whatever you do Vinnie, don't have sex with her... .

• AS ML noted, the court may think continuing intimacy with her means she's not all that bad in your eyes.



• Intimacy risks pregnancy... . a real risk if she wants to get you back under her influence, control or sabotage your recent efforts to separate.



• Intimacy risks potential various diseases from her partners.



• Intimacy may send mixed messages, both to her and to your son, even if unspoken.

[Vinnie]

Don't worry guys - the thought of his hairy body on her keeps me from setting foot on that Path to Nowhere... .

I was having inner turmoil filling for primary custody, to where she only gets alternating weekends and one dinner visit a week.  I still feel sorry for her and remain protective of her, if not mentally, at least emotionally. But then her boyfriend's ex-wife called me today.  She confirmed (to use for her own custody hearing) that according to friends, my wife and him were in her hometown over the Christmas holidays holding hands and telling everybody they were boyfriend and girlfriend. To this day, my wife insists they are just friends and their relationship is platonic.  Confirms she can't be trusted for ANYTHING she says, and her parenting rights should be limited.

[ForeverDad]

Confirms she can't be trusted for ANYTHING she says, and her parenting rights should be limited.

My ex has lied to me and misrepresented the facts in all sorts of ways since we separated and divorced.  Most of it has been studiously ignored by the court.  In fact, some have remarked that courts expect both spouses to lie in order to seek an advantage.  That's so sad, since often the truth doesn't get noticed or credited.

Just a heads up.  Don't go to court saying, "she lied, it's not a platonic relationship like she claimed and so I should have custody."    Court most likely won't care very much about her adult behaviors (such as her relationships).  Courts will give far more focus on the parenting behaviors.  You're concerned about her giving him extended contact with your children and that is more likely to be actionable.

(Decades ago, sexual preferences and affairs had a big impact in divorces.  Not so today, it's become ho-hum.  In recent years society's hot buttons are mainly allegations of DV or child abuse, neglect or endangerment.)