How to avoid triggering a sex-fearing partner without giving up sex?

[nomoremommyfood]

I've been on the forum a lot lately since a pull/push situation forced minimal contact with my dBPDbf. While he seems to be slowly coming around, I'd like to get as many questions off my chest as possible, as I tend to not write as much during periods of "normalcy."

I've read some pretty adult stuff on here, so I hope this is OK - it's been bothering me for a while.

My boyfriend and I regularly engage in an array of sexual acts, but he avoids intercourse. Our sex (or lack of sex) life is definitely hot and even seems to have improved in recent years. However, the intercourse subject is an issue. It's important to me, yet clearly triggers him. When we "do it," a fight very often follows. Sometimes I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy considering how many times he's pointed out that sex results in us fighting as reasoning to not have sex. It's not like the act is totally off the menu; it does happen. But, yeah, is usually the prelude to a fight.

Though I'm blown away by the similarities I've found on this forum, I'm having a hard time finding actual solutions. I don't want to stop having sex but also don't want to trigger him. Is my only choice to keep dealing with the fights when they arise or has anyone had any success in calming sexual-specific intimacy fears? So far, he hasn't bought into my "exposure therapy" idea!

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[connect]

Hello,

I have not got much experience with BPD as am still learning but my bf witholds sex from me sometimes. He does this when he is dis-regulated - - he says he doesn't feel sexual then. Also I suspect he occasionally does it as "punishment" as he knows it drives me mad!

I personally think that the fights you have afterwards probably stem from the intimacy he feels during sex and the subsequent fear surrounding that.

Probably not much help but I have found it unusual for a man to withhold sex so when my bf does it I am amazed and surprised every time. Is there an abuse history in his past perhaps?

[nomoremommyfood]

No sexual abuse. No physical abuse at all, to my knowledge. I also found it really weird when we first met and still sometimes wonder if he's not attracted to me, though I know - and he's told me - it's the intimacy thing.

He also generally dislikes sexual things, saying he prefers it to happen "in his mind." He was actually more willing to have intercourse years ago when we lived together and weren't getting along but I think that has to do with finding it easier when there's less emotional connection. As the relationship improved, he became less likely to have intercourse, though all the other sexy stuff got way better. Still, I have to initiate intercourse 99.9% of the time and it gets frustrating when - after I've put in so much effort to make him feel comfortable - he still freaks out the next time we hang out.

[iluminati]

First, I'm caling shenanigans on the whole lack of sex abuse thing.  This stuff just doesn't come out of nowhere.  Still, what you said is commonplace among us nons. h Fearof intimacy is not a joke, and you are always wondering "it is you?"  The whole arguments and mental breakdownsaroundsex, the either lack of sex or "adult star" phenomenon... . it's all par for the course.  Untilhe gets help, this is life. Now what are you going to do?

[nomoremommyfood]

First, I'm caling shenanigans on the whole lack of sex abuse thing. 

Why? That's what he said and nothing would indicate he's lying.

Until he gets help, this is life. Now what are you going to do?

That's why I posted this question - to see if anyone has suggestions for dealing with sexual intimacy issues.

[iluminati]

The point I'm making is that you have to figure out to get your sexual needs met with what he's offering.  Pushing him to do something that's going to trigger him is a fool's errand.  We are already talking about an emotionally volatile person.  Why push?  You may have to be OK with sexual activities without intercourse for a while.  Also, when he's calm, you should ask him what about intercourse that upsets him, using SET and DEARMAN techniques as information comes out.

The reason I call shenanigans about the sexual abuse is that it's not unusual for male sex abuse victims to hide that fact from their female partners.  Him not telling you would not be unusual in the slightest, and you have to acknowledge the possibility that there may be something there.  Be supportive and ask about his feelings.  You'd be surprised what he says.

[patientandclear]

My ex was incredibly averse to sex -- he wanted to wait a long time before we had sex, he told me he'd been in therapy before regarding his aversion to sex "outside of marriage" (which was most of his life since he is 50 and he was married for only 14 years), when he got to the point of sexual intimacy with other women, he left.

We had a lovely sexual r/s while we were together, but it was clear it was a Big Deal to him.  After he left me & we were talking about getting back together, the last thing he wanted to do was go to bed together -- it's like it would be the final frontier where things were very very scary for him.

He was sexually abused as a kid.  Trusting an adult who wants him sexually is very hard for him.  He seems to feel any such person has a hidden agenda & is actually going to betray and hurt him.  It makes total sense.  I am with Illuminati -- this stuff comes from somewhere deep and it is potentially very damaging to ask someone to set aside their fears or aversions around sex just to make us happy.  This is an area for gentleness and patience and listening, rather than asking & pressure.

Good luck.

[connect]

Hi,

Had some more thoughts on your situation.

My b/f has said a few times that he doesn't want to have sex with me sometimes because "it gives you the wrong idea" What the heck?  When gently asking about this it seems that my reactions after sex (loving and caring increase, more bonding to him - NATURAL behaviour in other words) scare him. He thinks I expect more from him in the r/s, that he has more pressure to be a good b/f. The crazy thing is that most of the time he exhibits the "porn star sex" persona that is also common here. He swings between the two.

Also I wonder if your partner is more comfortable with watching porn perhaps rather then a physical act? I have heard that some people can be like this. If this is the case and you are not adverse you could watch a bit together maybe? See where that goes? Sorry if that's too much!

[nomoremommyfood]

... . to set aside their fears or aversions around sex just to make us happy.  This is an area for gentleness and patience and listening, rather than asking & pressure.

Patience, I actually came across some of your prior writing on this subject earlier and very much related to your situation.

So... . we're gonna have to do it less?

When we first started dating (a long time ago) he said, "I can only do it once a week." Which turned into once a month. I'm not complaining about the current situation and avoid pressuring him at all costs. The "asking" part amounts to usually a gentle reminder in outside conversation - he usually makes a joke out of it - or a whispered question while in bed. If he says "I can't" or "not this time," I say "Ok." Sometimes he changes his mind or even calls asking to come over and "do it"... . one time even a "sext" after he read a copy of Cosmopolitan! So, I think I may have over exaggerated his reluctance.

As mentioned, I've noticed that the passage of time seems the greatest factor. We recently introduced things in the repertoire that had been off limits for five years! Unfortunately, he avoids conversations about sex aside from rare moments of clarity.

[connect]

Just read your reply to patientandclear after I posted to you.

mmm... . the Cosmo thing seems to indicate that he may find READING about sex stimulating. Maybe you could get some saucy stories for him to look at!

[nomoremommyfood]

My b/f has said a few times that he doesn't want to have sex with me sometimes because "it gives you the wrong idea" What the heck?  When gently asking about this it seems that my reactions after sex (loving and caring increase, more bonding to him - NATURAL behaviour in other words) scare him.

YES! Mine has said something very similar. He says "it's supposed to be this great, bonding experience and I don't see it like that."

Also I wonder if your partner is more comfortable with watching porn perhaps rather then a physical act? I have heard that some people can be like this. If this is the case and you are not adverse you could watch a bit together maybe? See where that goes? Sorry if that's too much!

Actually, this is also true! Though it's not the typical porn he likes but (and I'm PRAYING he never reads this) videos of socks. Obviously, I've got a lot of socks hanging around me room in case he comes over!

As for watching porn together, I've brought it up as an idea simply because I like it; he isn't interested as he believes anything even mildly kinky is for people who've "lost the spark" in their relationship while we're still going strong. I did used to keep illustrated erotica around with some "success." When things are good between us, he's more game for various "activities." It's just the one - and in my opinion central - activity that freaks  him out.

[nomoremommyfood]

Just read your reply to patientandclear after I posted to you.

mmm... . the Cosmo thing seems to indicate that he may find READING about sex stimulating. Maybe you could get some saucy stories for him to look at!

Ha ha! Actually, that's kind of my plan! He likes making collages out of magazines and I've give them to him as gifts. As much as the writing in Cosmo makes me cringe, once he gets out of this funk, I suspect it will arrive at his door under the auspices of "I found these magazines you can cut up... . "!

[LetItBe]

My uBPDxbf would always withdraw after sex, try to pick a fight, talk about other women who were contacting or trying to seduce him, etc., but usually, he'd just completely disappear, not to be heard from for a couple of days.  This is part of the reason we aren't together anymore.  I needed some kind of affirmation or contact after sex, and he just couldn't offer it.  He was too much at war with himself to be able to offer what I needed to feel good in the r/s.

We were together a total of 1 year, and looking back, my first inkling that something really wasn't right wasn't long after we first had sex (it took us about 2 months to have sex the first time -- things were going wonderfully then).  He sat me down to talk, and he seemed like he was really struggling.  He said, "I don't want to put up barriers with you."  I listened, was understanding, and offered my support. 

Something else happened around that time.  We were just kissing, things were heating up a bit, and he pulled away from me.  He said, "I'm not into fellatio."  I've never heard that before!  I thought to myself how his body had reacted like he was enjoying it last time we were together, but I had to remind myself that just because someone's body is having a normal physiological response to something, it does NOT mean that they are "enjoying" it.   I asked him if that was something that he wanted to try to learn how to enjoy -- or not -- and he basically said, "Not."

He talked about how he'd always viewed sex as "dirty."  He was abstinent for 7 years.  He felt guilty even looking at my body for awhile.  He said he never understood what people would say about sex being a wonderful way to connect emotionally and spiritually.  After we were together for awhile, he said he was finally feeling like sex wasn't "dirty" for the first time in his life.

Toward the end of our r/s, he once mentioned wondering if he'd been sexually abused.  He said he had no memory of it, but after reading a book of mine on survivors of SA, he found similarities between what was described in the book and himself.  It is not uncommon for someone who's been sexually abused to have no memories of it.  The mind has amazing abilities to adapt and survive, and erasing traumatic memories is one of its powerful tools.

I know it's frustrating, but you have to meet him where he's at.  Be very patient, or things could get worse.  It sounds like he has a lot of pain inside of him to heal before he can connect in the way you'd like him to. 

To deal with the fights when they arise, you could try using DEARMAN and SET... . and detaching with love, of course.  I wish you more patience and success than I could muster, and I hope you find a way to get your needs met, too.  Your needs are also very important.   

[nomoremommyfood]

We were together a total of 1 year, and looking back, my first inkling that something really wasn't right wasn't long after we first had sex (it took us about 2 months to have sex the first time -- things were going wonderfully then).  He sat me down to talk, and he seemed like he was really struggling.  He said, "I don't want to put up barriers with you."  I listened, was understanding, and offered my support. 

Something else happened around that time.  We were just kissing, things were heating up a bit, and he pulled away from me.  He said, "I'm not into fellatio."  I've never heard that before!  I thought to myself how his body had reacted like he was enjoying it last time we were together, but I had to remind myself that just because someone's body is having a normal physiological response to something, it does NOT mean that they are "enjoying" it.   I asked him if that was something that he wanted to try to learn how to enjoy -- or not -- and he basically said, "Not."

Wow, this is eerily similar to my experience. It took us 6 months to have sex - and actually broke up and got back together before ever doing it. The fellatio thing is really surprising, too. He always pushed me away and I pretty much assumed it was never going to happen. Out of the blue - during a good cycle about six months ago - he suggested we try it, admitting his reluctance was an "intimacy thing." I think it has to do with fearing loss of control via climax - something that occurred to me when reading about men unable to "finish" in their partners. After five years, I was on cloud nine for days! It went very well, no fight followed, and he hasn't pushed me away since... . though I've reserved it to occasions when he's particularly "frisky."

I know it's frustrating, but you have to meet him where he's at.  Be very patient, or things could get worse.  It sounds like he has a lot of pain inside of him to heal before he can connect in the way you'd like him to... . To deal with the fights when they arise, you could try using DEARMAN and SET... . and detaching with love, of course. 

I think this is the best possible course of action... . let things happen at a natural pace while gently asserting needs and accepting that fighting is inevitable but not cause for total avoidance. Unfortunately, he's doing very poorly and (rightly) refusing to see me until his depression lifts. So it looks like all this advice will have to go on the back burner until the episode passes.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm going to agree with others that the "no sexual abuse" claim probably isn't the whole story.

There are many possibilities. Here are a few more:

• People really do block that out of their memories because it is too painful.

• I know many people have been subjected to sexual shaming and repression, even though they weren't abused, and there is still a lot of healing needed from that.



• I don't believe my wife ever was sexually abused, and neither does she. However, her mother was, and her mother didn't cope/heal well from it, and managed to pass along some of the behaviors of a sexual abuse survivor to her.

I agree you will need patience to deal with it.

For more ideas... . not BPD specific, but just possibilities that might help you find some satisfaction while working around his limitations, Have you considered writing Dan Savage? (If you aren't familiar, his column is kinda like a gay/kink/etc. friendly version of Dear Abby) www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove[/list]

[nomoremommyfood]

Have you considered writing Dan Savage?

As much as I love Dan Savage (particularly his "interpretation" of Rick Santorum), his column circulates in our city's weekly... . my bf would flip.

I'm going to agree with others that the "no sexual abuse" claim probably isn't the whole story.

Though skeptical, I decided to Google "signs of sexual abuse in adults." My bf talks about his childhood rarely and my only knowledge of this subject was me asking him while conversing on a related topic. But the symptoms were eerily accurate, including seemingly random stuff like "wears multiple layers of clothing in warm weather." Not sure how much I should read into this... .

[Grey Kitty]

I am thinking of the Hippocratic Oath: First do no harm.

I'm pretty clueless whether any action on your part, would help or harm your bf if he is indeed a sexual abuse survivor. I'd suggest you try to understand more what you could do that would help (or harm) him if these suspicions are accurate.

There have to be resources better than this forum for dealing directly with childhood sexual abuse, you can probably google around and find something. Perhaps a member with more experience can point you at some of them.

Meanwhile... . just file it away and keep an eye out for things that point toward or away from the idea, until you know more, or he starts to address it himself.

[benny2]

Sex seems to be quite an issue with pwBPD. I did not know how to take the withdrawl from it while I was living with him. I did not know of the BPD at the time, and thought it was me or he had someone else. Now hearing that so many others have this problem with this disorder, I am thinking it has something to do with the BPD. He also seems to prefer the porn star sex thing too. It blows my mind as its totally out of my comfort zone, but now I see where this exhibits less closeness, intimacy. Its all about the fear of intimacy. This gets deeper and deeper all the time, but the more I learn about this, the more he is opening up to me. Its almost like he feels he has finally found someone who can understand. Truth is, I'm still confused, but learning.