strategy for getting adult son into DBT even if he does not accept diagnosis?

[six]

my DS25 was diagnosed six years ago with BPD/NPD.  he rejected the diagnosis because the psychiatrist was an idiot.  he still insists that there is nothing wrong with him, the problem is with everyone else

my question is this, does anyone have experience with a pwBPD who agreed to DBT without accepting the diagnosis?

when I speak with DBT practitioners about him getting help it seems like the first step is for him to accept the reality of the situation and want to get help.  unfortunately, we are no where near that point, as far as I can tell.

lately he has told me that he would like to speak with a psychiartist before his health benefits run out bec he is on my plan and it will terminate when he turns 26 at the end of 2013. but when I suggest names to him, he says they are either too expensive (he is frugal and he doesnt want me to pay for it either), or if I susggest a psychologist he says no, they are not smart enough. He tells me that he is only interested in speaking to a T so that he can tell him all the injustices that have been done to him.    just wondering if  if there is some kind of strategy that i might be able to use that could help

thanks

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I think it is good that is wants to speak to someone... . could it be he doesn't want to admit to you that there is something wrong? He might be willing to open up to a T... . DBT therapy teaches people how to control there emotions etc... . I think you can practice the skills without admitting you have BPD... . What exactly are his struggles? Anger? Raging?

[six]

his struggle seems to be that he has an inflated sense of himself coupled with a deflated sense of everyone else (Narcissism?).  at the same time, he seems to be convinced that he is a major loser. 

the major issue at the moment is that he would like to have a girlfriend and dating is a disaster.  according to him it is bec all the girls he meets are idiots

a few months ago he started dating a girl that seemed really smart and attractive.  then she mentioned that she had a friend who was even more accomplished than she was.  he immediately broke up with the girl bec why would he want to date a girl who was only second best?

all of this translates into him being frustrated, enraged and raging all the time. he blames me for raising him such that he doesnt know how to meet the kind of girls he wants to date, and he blames his sisters for not introducing him to their friends. as soon as something goes wrong, his first quesiton is who can he blame?

[jellibeans]

wel you all have a hard time trying to conceive a pwBPD that they are to blame but if your son is seeking help then I think he must feel he needs help in some way. He probably can't admit it to you. That seems to be the hardest thing for them but he could talk to someone about his issues.

Can you tell me what boundaries you have in place? Does your son live at home? Is he working right now? If he is at home you could make going to therapy one of the things he needs to do to continue to have your financial support. I am not sure of your whole situation so it is hard to give suggestions. The blame game is a real BPD trait... . until he can take some ownership he will continue to struggle... . have you read any books... . there are some good ones out there that can help.

The fact he is looking for a T is a good sign... . he must be struggling and unhappy... . realizing that there is help out there for him is the first step.

[Kate4queen]

It's interesting, my son (22 BPD) only agreed to go to therapy because he 'wanted to set the record straight' i.e. justify his behavior. Every time that didn't work-(eventually most therapists caught on to what was happening, especially when he became an adult) he'd blame the T saying they were stupid and didn't know what they were talking about. He never accepts that anything is his fault. The only reason he claims to want to see us is because he want's to 'set us straight' about our 'appalling treatment of him' and our 'uncaring bitterness and disdain'.

sound familiar?

The old saying that you can drag a horse to water but not make him drink comes to mind. I really think (and my T agrees) that the only way my son will ever start to accept some responsibility and seek help is when he reaches rock bottom and has no choice. I've given up trying to bargain him into therapy.

I think you should go along with him and let him try it but don't be surprised if he drops out when he doesn't get what he wants.

[six]

when I ask him what he is looking to accomplish with a therapist, he says "to set the record straight"

so I am not holding out a lot of hope that he is really looking for help

I have also been told that he will not truly want help until he reaches rock bottom

and I have a feeling that notwithstanding how bad things seem to be right now,

we are still a bit of a way from rock bottom

so I guess I am still wondering if there is any method that any of you have used to get your child motivated for therapy even when they still have not hit bottom?

I think I already know the answer

just wondered if there was an easier, softer way

[vivekananda]

have you had the hard realisation yet emaof6?

It was my question when I first came on the boards here: how could I get my dd to realise she needed treatment. It took a lot of time to learn that all I could change was myself. It took my d 32 years to get to where she is, she is not going to change easily and quickly. I have learnt to change myself, and that is not easy nor is it quick... . but the rewards are worth it.

It may be that he doesn't have to reach rock bottom, if you are able to improve your relationship with him, it may not get to that at all.

On your other post, you have some good advice. Keep on posting, asking questions, it's the easiest way to learn.

Cheers,

Vivek      

[six]

on the one hand, when I am being rational I accept that I can't' fix him, I can only fix myself. 

on the other hand, in my fantasy I imagine that maybe someone out there in bpdfamily land, will have discovered some magical words that will make him realize he needs to get help

when I am being honest, I know that means that I have not really accepted reality.

thanks for the reminder

[peaceplease]

emaofsix,

I just wanted to comment on your ds.  My ds has a lot of similarities.  I came to this board about my dd, as I believed that she has BPD.  I had a former T that saw my dd, and those were her beliefs, too.  My ds has never had any kind of diagnosis other than ADHD and depression.  What I believed to have been possible fleas, and  mere resentment from seeing his sister needs being met before his.  True, my dd was the drama one, and I catered to her, only because I could not stand all the harassment. 

My ds has a sense of entitlement.  I believe that his paternal grandma helped him with this.  She has had a stroke and can not communicate.  It was severe, and they found her too late, and she has never regained her speech.  I am not even sure what she understands.  She really enabled my ds, buying another car after he wrecked a few of his other cars. Paid for his ignored traffic ticket.    Let him stay with her, did his laundry, cooked his meals, and would not take any money for room and board.  She paid him to cut the grass.  Also, she had my ex- SIL's dd staying with her, but she took money from her for room and board.  I could never understand that.  Of course, my ds was her favorite gs. 


Now, my ex-Mil, sits in a nursing home, and everyone was to grow up and take care of themselves.  And, they all bash each other about who has to grow up because she is no longer to take care of them financially.  Much bitterness in that family.  Some BPD/NPD!  It is really sad because she has little visitors.  Her dd lives 4 hours away.  Her ds does not visit her. 

My ds blames me for not pushing him to do better in high school, so he could get a scholarship for college.  He blames me for not paying for his college education.  He blames me for marrying a psychotic and having children to him. (his dad) He blames me for not keeping him away from my ex-husband family.  My ex did not bother much with him, but my ds loved being with his paternal gma and aunt.  That is why I let him go with them.  He looked up to his uncle.(ex-SIL husband)  He was his role model.  They did plenty with my ds, took him on road trip across the other side of country.  He loved spending time with them, but now he sees them as all crazy and blames me for not sheltering him from them.  My ds is always complaining about someone, always the victim, always criticizing. 

He is going to FL and stay with his friend.  His last day of work is tomorrow.  However, he moved out of his apartment on 5/31, so he can save another paycheck and free load off others for two weeks. 

My ds knows that he has issues.  He is a heroin addict on top of everything else. He was angry when I would not pay for his visit to see psychiatrist, last month.  He has no health insurance.  I refused to pay for it, because I knew that he was merely going to get Adderall. He was not going to get professional help.  He just wanted a legal way to get Adderall. 

I am sorry, if I hijacked your thread.  You can only lead them to the water, they have to drink it.  I pray for my ds daily.  I hope he has some true self reflection on why he has no girlfriend, and why his friends avoid him.  He does not see that it is him at all.  In fact, a friend that used to hang around with him told my dd, that nobody likes being around him because all he does is criticize and bash other people. 

I think very few people with BPD/NPD will seek therapy.  Your ds will not accept his diagnosis. However, if he wants to speak with someone for whatever reason, that is a big step.  Regardless, of what he feels.  He actually may end up getting some good therapy, even though he just wants to vent about being a victim.    My ds has told me that he believes that he has NPD.  He sees his dad as having it.  However, I don't see my ds ever seeking therapy for himself.  Only, a psychiatrist to prescribe his amphetamines. 

All we can do is set up boundaries to protect ourselves.   

peaceplease

[six]

hi peace

so sorry to hear what you are going thru

and I agree that our ds;s seem to have similarities

you didnt say how old your ds is

mine is 25.

yesterday he came home and told me he went to an apptmt with a psychotherapist

i immediately started worrying, who is this T? does he know what he is doing? will he make things worse?

but then I remembered, I dont have to fix things

the fact that my ds would reach out to someone even tho he always tells me that the problem is the rest of the world and not him, is a major step and also kind of a miracle

so I just said, "wow , good for you, I hope it goes well.  do you need any help paying for it?"

then we had a nice evening where he told me in swear words about what he thinks of one of my friends who has tired to help him and, I tried not to judge, and to just see it from his perspective

I did a lot of nodding and saying wow that must be tough. 

i realize that the way this disease goes, he could start raging at me over anything at any time

but for today, I am grateful for some peace and for him trying to get some help

you said that nobody wants to be around your ds.  i expect this is true of my ds as well, but i have never met any of his friends or aquaintances so I cannot say for sure.

[Rapt Reader]

Wow, emaofsix... . It sounds like you are really learning and applying the techniques of validation and radical acceptance    As the days go by, and you can see and feel that those tools will help you and your son communicate better, it will get easier and easier. And, you will get better and better at it    Once I learned how not to push all my dBPDs36's buttons, the changes in his behavior went fast and furious, and he started being more and more interested in getting help for himself. It also makes life easier for you, too    Good luck, and keep up the good work! If you keep reading the Workshops, Articles and message boards here, you will get stronger and stronger... . I bet you can already feel it   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

goodoh emaof6 

We need to have clear eyes and hope in our hearts to be able to improve our relationships with our kids.

Have you caught on to which books others have found to help them, yet? Have you checked out the workshops here?

My dd32 went to a T and got a diagnosis of PTSD. I, as you'd expect from me, panicked again... . 'treatment for PTSD won't fix her', I would cry out. Again I wasted a lot of energy worrying about this. Well, the treatment she has had has helped her quite a lot. No it won't 'cure' her BPD but it could bring her to a place to take her recovery further. And her T may realised that she is indeed BPD and not PTSD... . so, all has worked out well for the moment. And we are in a position to improve our relationship.

Have you seen the work on FOG? What it means to be in the F.O.G.

There are some interesting aspects to the FOG 

Vivek