My MIL

[tuesday]

Hello,

I have been with my husband for about 3 years, but we just recently got married. When we first started dating I noticed several weird things that his mother would do (didn't say a word to me the first time we met/had dinner together, texting him constantly-not an exaggeration-throughout the day, talking to him as though he was her SO, touching him a lot-like playing with his hair, rubbing his back). He still lived with his mother at that time--he was in his late 20's. His father had left his mother a few years before and his adult sister (she's now 32) went and lived with their father after a little while. After a few months of dating he moved in with me and through those months he began setting some appropriate boundaries with his mother. He stopped responding to every text his mom sent and she began to back off. Things still never felt right with his family... . there was always this awkwardness. I tried to brush it off b/c I'm a fairly anxious/high-strung person anyway so I thought that maybe it was just me and my imagination.

He bought a house, the holidays came, and things felt a little better and then it became spring and he and I were talking about the possibility of getting married. His mother had been texting him right before dinner and inviting us to eat and getting offended that we didn't drop what we were doing and come over, she had also stopped by our house a few times uninvited and unannounced. He decided it was time to set some more boundaries and went and talked to her about letting us know an hour or so ahead and texting or calling ahead to come over. He also mentioned that we were talking about being engaged. Her response was "it doesn't seem like she likes my family." He also walked away from that conversation feeling as though I was not trying hard enough with his mother. He pretty well demanded that I try harder or our relationship was going to fail.

Not too long after that it was Easter and we were around his dad. His dad had found out that he had had a boundaries talk with his mother and my FIL was not happy about it. We quickly discovered that my UBPDMIL had told my FIL that my H had said we needed a 2 week advanced notice in order to make it to dinner. Through this we also found out that she had been making up several stories about me since the beginning of our relationship. We also discovered that her lying, manipulative, poor boundary behavior is nothing new to anyone in the family and listened to lots of stories from his grandmother and father. My H also discovered that the man my H knew his mother had an affair with when my H was in high school she had actually been having an affair with since my H was in diapers. This really helped him and us with things for a long time.

Well, his mother and father began spending almost every day together. His mother used his sister (his sister had surgery so she went to see her and they live together so of course she was going to see him) as an excuse to continue to see his father. My H’s father has told us that my MIL is very good at manipulating. His words were, “You can go to talk to her thinking and knowing one thing and then she talks to you and you are like well huh yeah.” They are all really intelligent people and so sometimes these things feel even more baffling. His sister has been very rude to both of us throughout our engagement. Still, his family thought she should be included in our wedding, which she was not or I guess I should say was not supposed to be. We had a few family members to be already seated prior to the wedding to simplify some things (grandparent’s and my niece/bridesmaid). We had a wedding planner and went over all of this with her and it was all settled. The day of our wedding as I’m coming out of my room to get in the line to walk down the aisle I see his sister about to walk down the aisle to be escorted to her seat. My anxiety was so high I didn’t think too much on it. He and I mentioned it and talked very briefly on it after the wedding but that was pretty much it until we got back from our honeymoon. When we got back he found out that it was his mother who had made that happen. He confronted her about it and she said that his sister came crying to her about feeling excluded so she told his groomsman to walk her down. She said that she discussed it with our wedding planner and she was supposed to discuss it with us. She didn’t sound/act very apologetic but she said she was sorry. She really didn’t see anything wrong with what she had done. She also said it was not her intention to deliberately go behind his/our backs to make that happen. My H explained that whether it was her intent or not that is exactly what she did. She knew that if she had come to us the answer would have been no. Well, we had a final bill to pay with the wedding planner so when I saw her I asked how that happened. She told me that during the wedding rehearsal my H’s mother came up to her and said “Oh by the way, H’s sister is supposed to walk in front of me when we walk down the aisle.” It really wasn’t the wedding planner’s responsibility to put herself in the middle and talk to us about it plus the situation would have been worse prior to the wedding, we assume that’s why she didn’t inform us of this change. So, UBPDMIL lied about how that situation happened which really pissed my H off more than anything else. He hates being lied to by her. He was already upset that the whole thing had happened.

We were both really hurt and upset that this was done. I felt like we didn’t include some really supportive people walking down the aisle and his sister, who has been anything but supportive and helpful got to walk down the aisle as though she was some part of this or had been a helpful, supportive, encouraging person to us. (H refused to talk to her for several months after she got upset and started making some wedding stuff all about her and accused him of using their family—I had to talk him into going and reconciling with her—she was never going to do it). We talked to colleagues and our own counselor about where to go from here. The conclusion that we have made is that we want to withdraw. We aren’t saying forever, we aren’t putting a time on it at all. We just don’t feel like we can have anything to do with his mother, we rarely see his sister anyway, when we go to visit she doesn’t really come out of her room—she doesn’t have a job or do anything, she’s fully financially supported by their father.

We went to discuss this with his father. He doesn’t see this as that big of a deal but states that he understands why we do. He thinks that we basically don’t need to rock the boat and that it’s just adding more stress on us doing this than to just let it go and act like nothing happened. I asked him if it’s really just us adding more stress on him that he’s worried about. This has really been his pattern throughout his adult life, not rocking the boat. That’s one of the reasons he stayed married knowing that H’s mother was having an affair for decades. It’s also the reason he makes no attempts to get his 32 year old daughter to do anything with her life and continues to pay for everything for her. I love his dad, he’s really a great man, he just ignores everything and it has really contributed greatly to depression and anxiety for him.

It’s been almost a week since we spoke to his dad and we still haven’t told his mother that we know she lied and that we won’t be coming around her for a while. We talked about it and spoke with others and we do feel like we need to inform her that we know she lied and we feel completely disrespected by her decision to take care of that for his sister and that she really acted like she doesn’t care about how we felt at all. We would appreciate any advice or anything into speaking with her. I’m not sure that I will go with my H to talk to her.

He is also worried about what kind of lies and how much of a victim his mother is going to make herself out to be with other family members who really don’t know about this situation.

Thank You!

Tuesday

[GeekyGirl]

Hi tuesday and welcome! 

What you've described is a clear lack of boundaries between your DH and his family. What you've done so far makes a lot of sense, and it can be difficult to get people with BPD (and their enablers) to accept your boundaries.

You can't change your FIL or how he enables your MIL and SIL. What are you hoping will happen with your FIL when you talk to him?

You mentioned some last-minute changes to your wedding ceremony that weren't discussed with you (BTW, it would be completely unprofessional of your wedding planner to make changes without telling you). Is that something you feel you need to discuss further with your in-laws?

We would appreciate any advice or anything into speaking with her. I’m not sure that I will go with my H to talk to her.

He is also worried about what kind of lies and how much of a victim his mother is going to make herself out to be with other family members who really don’t know about this situation.

If you haven't read up on SET (Support, Empathy, Truth) yet, I'd recommend you start there: TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth. It's a good way to make the other person feel heard (which makes them more likely to listen to what you have to say) but also reinforces your point. You may want to decide what you hope to get out of this conversation--is it just to tell her that you need a break, or are you looking to change her behavior?

Your MIL may or may not make herself out to be a victim (although it's likely she will), but that's not something you can prevent. I know how frustrating that is--believe me--but the best thing you can do for yourself and your husband is accept what you can do to support each other and protect yourselves and focus on that. Do any other family members seem to see that your MIL's behavior is unusual, or do you feel like you'd get support from any of them?

Hang in there and keep us posted. You'll find that many of us have gone through similar situations.

[tuesday]

Thanks for your response. We aren't really hoping to change his father's mind or really expecting anything from him, I did hope, but I know him and I knew better. We felt like we needed to inform him of the decision that we were making because it would have an impact on him and he will be hearing about it since he has started having this relationship, whatever kind of relationship it is, again. We know she will be complaining about us and she likes to try and triangulate things by making things up or exaggerating and trying to turn his dad against us. We also wanted him to be aware that this may mean there are times where we choose not to come to events or dinners because we know his mother and possibly his sister will be there.

At this point, we don't feel like we need to discuss the wedding any further other the to say it was completely out of line and we know she lied. We don't expect to hear her admit to lying or really believe that she feels any sort of sorrow or understanding that she crossed the line. We would rather just tell her now rather than have her continue to act like nothing happened and have to have the conversation with her later.

My husband's family members (his father, his father's mother, and his sister) have all discussed with us knowing and recognizing that her behaviors are unusual. His sister rarely recognizes things for the most part, but she has a lot of behaviors that are like their mother. His father and his father's mother have told us decades worth of stories. His grandmother has talked to us about decades worth of lies and hurtful situations. They refer to her behavior when she isn't being manipulative and lying as having "good behavior" and waiting for her to do something. But, they live by not "rocking the boat." They don't really talk to her about her hurtful behaviors and never really have. They recognize that her behaviors are manipulative and that she lies, and they readily admit that some of her lies are bizarre because they are obviously lies. However, they don't talk to her about any of it even when it's destructive and hurtful.

As far as support from them they understand how we feel and why we feel that way but they don't want us to do anything about it b/c that would rock the boat. I will say that when his father had a girlfriend he was more encouraging of my husband confronting his mother's behaviors. He didn't think it would do any good but he did seem proud of my husband for standing up to her.

[GeekyGirl]

I can see where you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't blame you for not wanting to be around your MIL and it makes a lot of sense that you'd want to explain your point of view to your FIL. You seem to have a good idea of how he'll respond, so at least you can prepare for his reaction. Do you think he's codependent?

The good thing is that it sounds like your DH's extended family understands, so you may find some support there. Ideally, what would you like to see happen from here?