Hate pretending nothing's wrong

[Chosen]

Our high-functioning pwBPDs have 2 faces- the mean, controlling personalities when they're with us, and the sweet, loving and compassionate personality with people around them.  I'm pretty sure nobody in uBPDh's circle knows or even can believe that he would be so aggressive with words and actions.  If you tell people he's no a safe individual when he's out of control, they probably will think I'm mad. 

And now because of all the pretending we have to do (he probably doesn't have to pretend, he does have those 2 sides), I just hate myself.  I feel like I'm lying to everybody around me.  I'm lying to my closest friends because they have no idea how much suffering I go through- just a few nights ago I had dinner with my gfs and that night I had to leave my own home because my H said he will hit me if I stay!  I'm lying to people at church, who thinks we're a "normal" couple.  I now don't actively lie and make up stories for him when he misses stuff and so on.  I just stay silent or just laugh it off, giving as few details as possible.  I feel like I'm lying to all those people because those who care about me certainly would like to help, and also they should somehow know that H is not the "Mr. Perfect" they believe him to be.

What saddens me the most is that last weekend my mother-in-law texted me and said I seemed sad, and that she and my father-in-law are worried about me.  That was the day after I had to leave home and sleep on my C’s floor.  And all I could do was to reply that I’m ok, that I was just tired, that’s all.  I know they care about me (I don’t have other close family to talk to) and it hurts me to have to lie to them.  But what could I do?  I can’t possibly tell them that their son is like this (although they have experienced firsthand that he could be very difficult and mean, but nothing like what I endure regularly).  It would hurt them and it wouldn’t help the situation.  If they told H he would think I’m alienating his family from him.  But to be honest it feels like I’m stranded on a deserted island, a rescue boat just came by and I refused to go on…

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DreamFlyer99]

Why don't you tell someone the truth? I know my T has asked me so many times whether or not I spoke with anyone about the issues I've been dealing with, and only recently I have trusted a few close people with my issues. It's the same  with me, when we were involved in a church my H was doing several ministries and busy busy busy and people loved him. Back then I THOUGHT some of his treatment of me was "off" but I believed him when he said stuff like "everybody loses their temper sometimes." But not everybody calls their wife names and belittles her.

What holds you back from being honest with a couple of close people?

[Chosen]

There are 4 people who know everything.  1 is a family member, 2 are my C and her husband (from my church), and 1 is my close friend who was also my MOH in our wedding.  Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that these few people know, and I could tell them everything and they're supportive, but it's just not helpful to tell anybody else, because 1. They don't have the wisdom to deal with it (if I tell some other person in church and they went about telling everybody else, or treating H differently, it will just look like I'm trying to get people on my side, which is not what I want), 2. even if they knew it, they couldn't help us.  H is not diagnosed, it is not likely that he will lose it in front of those people (rather, you can say he controls it very well), so in the best case scenario that they believe me, they couldn't really see what he does and they can't get him to get treatment or whatever.

[DreamFlyer99]

That's interesting. I get that being part of a church makes things really difficult, there's never 100% honesty there, or owning up to one's responsibilities, since there's usually too much worrying about looking righteous in front of the others. So hard.

My H did start acting pretty dysregulated in front of one friend, and it was becoming really common in front of my daughter and her H who lived with us for 2 years. That's what got me started opening up--my friend saw the behavior and so I decided to explain it. I was absolutely blindsided a million times last year when H was in a pretty much weekly habit of craziness (talk about me being a bit slow to catch on, eh?)

I saw your other post about leaving the house. I would do that (on the advice of my T) last year every time my H would start into one of his rants. Unfortunately it always took me a while to catch on to what was going on, i'd be all "huh?" and start to defend whatever he was accusing me of. i'm getting better at realizing what's happening when it starts now, finally, but honestly, it's gone on for years, I just didn't know what it was and it didn't happen so frequently until he had troubles with medication last year.

I have said the "I feel unsafe right now so i'm going for a walk." Some say that's giving attention to the behavior, I just thought I was telling him why I was going out of the door. This is all rather confusing.

[sjm7411]

I can totally relate to this.  I don't want to tell people how I'm suffering because I am around my family and friends a lot and I don't want things to become awkward between us, so I cover it up as much as I can.  If they knew everything, they would be beyond shocked.  I told one of my friends who lives halfway across the country and will probably never even meet BPh.  I told one other friend in my area who didn't like him when they met because she thought he was arrogant (and she is a very lovable & accepting person to just about everybody).  I find myself having to defend/justify his personality though, most people definitely don't see him as "sweet and compassionate".  When he is around my family/friends, once in a while I'll get the social, talkative H and I breathe a sigh of relief... . but most of the time he is like a deer in the headlights around people, quiet with a few bursts of forced conversation or sarcastic comments.  I brace myself for a variety of feedback after an event - "Was he mad?"... . ":)id I do something to upset him?"... . or various other observations, "He is sarcastic, seems needy, critical, quiet".  I'm sure people wonder what the heck I see in him.  I always hope that they will see the person I fell in love with - but most of the time they don't and probably never will.  At timees I can be sensitive and get embarrassed easily about things, so at first I thought it was me.  But after about 10 people asking me what's wrong with him, I put two and two together and realized it's him. 

[bruceli]

Our high-functioning pwBPDs have 2 faces- the mean, controlling personalities when they're with us, and the sweet, loving and compassionate personality with people around them.  I'm pretty sure nobody in uBPDh's circle knows or even can believe that he would be so aggressive with words and actions.  If you tell people he's no a safe individual when he's out of control, they probably will think I'm mad. 

And now because of all the pretending we have to do (he probably doesn't have to pretend, he does have those 2 sides), I just hate myself.  I feel like I'm lying to everybody around me.  I'm lying to my closest friends because they have no idea how much suffering I go through- just a few nights ago I had dinner with my gfs and that night I had to leave my own home because my H said he will hit me if I stay!  I'm lying to people at church, who thinks we're a "normal" couple.  I now don't actively lie and make up stories for him when he misses stuff and so on.  I just stay silent or just laugh it off, giving as few details as possible.  I feel like I'm lying to all those people because those who care about me certainly would like to help, and also they should somehow know that H is not the "Mr. Perfect" they believe him to be.

What saddens me the most is that last weekend my mother-in-law texted me and said I seemed sad, and that she and my father-in-law are worried about me.  That was the day after I had to leave home and sleep on my C’s floor.  And all I could do was to reply that I’m ok, that I was just tired, that’s all.  I know they care about me (I don’t have other close family to talk to) and it hurts me to have to lie to them.  But what could I do?  I can’t possibly tell them that their son is like this (although they have experienced firsthand that he could be very difficult and mean, but nothing like what I endure regularly).  It would hurt them and it wouldn’t help the situation.  If they told H he would think I’m alienating his family from him.  But to be honest it feels like I’m stranded on a deserted island, a rescue boat just came by and I refused to go on…

I believe both sides are not real... . their entire life is made up and "pretend".  Eventually the mask will fall... .   BPD/NPDw let go last week after six months with our landlord after telling me how I should know better about how to handle people/him... .   It was pure joy watching the both of them go at each other as well as having such a good feeling that someone else was feeling the PD wrath and it wasn't me.

[owdrs]

This caught my eye as I have pretended all along we were great when out... . AND at home. That is, I had to pretend to forgive the last attack, and pretend that it's all OK, and pretend that I still love and care for her... . even though I felt like I was staying with a person I knew hated me. Adding to having to be the perfect couple while out.

I often felt while out that people could tell I was practically crying inside. I didn't want to make eye contact because they would see how destroyed I was. Often we had to be somewhere and we had just had a big fight (well more like I just took a big rage), and I felt destroyed inside.

Eventually I just couldn't do it anymore. As i got older I just wasn't strong enough to fake it all the time. Took too much out of me. And things got worse because I didn't ignore her actions anymore.

owdrs

[randomjoy]

I know how you feel. I kept it to myself for a long time, and only a few months ago did i finally tell my best friend what was going on. It felt so good to get it out, and to finally have someone to talk to.

[bruceli]

I know how you feel. I kept it to myself for a long time, and only a few months ago did i finally tell my best friend what was going on. It felt so good to get it out, and to finally have someone to talk to.

I don't think telling our/her friends would do it for me... . But a video during the dysregulated rages would surely make an impression... .

[Chosen]

I'm so depressed these few days, particularly because he raged only last week, I was forced out of my own home, and now he makes it seem like my fault (in a passive-aggressive way.  Not ouvertly because I wouldn't address it since he only wants to attack me not to have a conversation).

Sometimes I just wished he would rage at me in public, you know, because nobody out there knows anything.  People around us thinks he's nice and helpful, and even when he inwardly resents it he would never say no to those people nor point out anything's wrong.  He would pour it all out to me and when I'm not as validating as he wishes (i.e. I don't attack the other person, or worse still, if I defend that person) I would be raged upon.  Even if it's not rage, I will have to suffer consequences. 

owdrs, like you, I had to pretend at home and I could never mention anything he did wrong because then he will hurl abuse at how I have no right not to trust him, basically that I am scum and I cannot have demands.  I do love him and care about him, but gradually I have to pull myself back in this aspect because he either takes it for granted and "punishes" me when I don't do as he expected, and also the more I do the more I could possibly do wrong and of course he only looks at stuff that went wrong.

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm so depressed these few days, particularly because he raged only last week, I was forced out of my own home, and now he makes it seem like my fault (in a passive-aggressive way.  Not ouvertly because I wouldn't address it since he only wants to attack me not to have a conversation).

Oh so familiar, the bit about "only wants to attack not have a conversation." i'm finally seeing with my H that the attack seems to be his defense against me thinking there's anything less than perfect about him! Not that the raging/tantruming achieves a single good thing... .

My best defense after dealing with that particular ongoing issue is to RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH. I know what kind of person I am, I know what kind of tone I was using (since I was being ever so careful) and those things are beginning to give me confidence. (I thank my therapist a lot!)

It was such an odd realization to me once I started reading up on BPD to realize that the person with BPD comes from a place of not feeling good in themselves, not feeling lovable, that sort of thing. When they're throwing every insult they can at you it's pretty hard to realize they're people who are hurting inside. Understanding the truth of who I am and the truth of where my hubby's tantrums come from has helped me take things less personally and make better use of things like "Validation" and "Listening"--stuff you can find info about on this site.

It's a hateful place to be when they can be so lovely with others and such horses-behinds with us. I feel ya. It's a process!

[waverider]

At the end of the day pretending nothing's wrong=enabling by fear of consequences.  Validating it as acceptable behind close doors behavior.

So the circus plays on, and the clowns go round and round.

[DreamFlyer99]

At the end of the day pretending nothing's wrong=enabling by fear of consequences.  Validating it as acceptable behind close doors behavior.

So the circus plays on, and the clowns go round and round.

Oh BAM!

Truth. But ouch, hard truth!

[Chosen]

waverider, what will you suggest I do?

My boundary is that I will not discuss my "faults" if the conversation does not allow me to mention things he did that I feel unconfortable with.  For instance, he thinks that because I say "no" to him (which he hates) he has the right to treaten to hit me, and that since he didn't actually hit me that is ok.  I do not think that is ok so if he wants to talk about me saying "no" I will address how he treatens me.  And he keeps dodging that, trying to shift the blame on me.  He's now dysregulated and I suppose he will try all he can to force me to stop talking about his problems while he attacks me on my problems.  I'm sick of it (and it hasn't done us any good so far) so I'm sticking to this boundary.

Am I doing the wrong thing?

[DreamFlyer99]

I AM pretty sure that if someone is even threatening to hit you there is no point whatsoever in engaging into any talk. And if their talk is verbal attack, same thing. I think that's when they say to "take a time out." I guess we have to do it ourselves since we can't get them to sit on the naughty step!

i'm curious about the answer to this too.

[Chosen]

DreamFlyer99,

The background of the story is that I left the home for the night exactly one week ago when he threatened to hit me (he has done so before, once, without warning.  Then I set the boundary and my safety plan.)  After I came home, I set another boundary, and that is I will not engage in a conversation which only addresses the responsibility of one person (me) while his actions totally ignored.  So he hasn't been able to get me to talk about it, and while I'm ok with us just dropping the matter for now (it won't help him understand that hsi actions are threatening.  My actions will tell him I don't accept it), he can't let it go.  That's the problem.  I gave him a few chances today, suggest we talk about other things, but he kept on just blaming me, saying I'm never happy with anything, playing the victim game, etc.  But I wasn't lured into discussion how I was being horrible. 

So I don't really know what to do now.

[DreamFlyer99]

Dang. That's really hard.

[waverider]

waverider, what will you suggest I do?

My boundary is that I will not discuss my "faults" if the conversation does not allow me to mention things he did that I feel unconfortable with.  For instance, he thinks that because I say "no" to him (which he hates) he has the right to treaten to hit me, and that since he didn't actually hit me that is ok.  I do not think that is ok so if he wants to talk about me saying "no" I will address how he treatens me.  And he keeps dodging that, trying to shift the blame on me.  He's now dysregulated and I suppose he will try all he can to force me to stop talking about his problems while he attacks me on my problems.  I'm sick of it (and it hasn't done us any good so far) so I'm sticking to this boundary.

Am I doing the wrong thing?

First boundary when faced with threat is to leave as you did.

Second boundary do not discuss anything when in an agitated or dysregulated mode, whether both sides or one. It will get nowhere.

Only discuss things in any detail when NO ONE is agitated or upset. All discussion to be balanced and not a blame game. If it turns into a blame game disengage and go back to boundary 2. It is about understanding not proving someone right and someone wrong.

Do not hide or cover up consequences of his actions. If you had to leave because of his blow up, or things get cancelled, it is perfectly OK to state things as they are without making excuses to your close friends. No need to neg rave about his issues, but no need to hide them. Of course he wont like it, but that's his problem and his consequence. If he dysregulates about that go back to boundary 1 & 2.

You have a right to have balanced conversation with both him and everyone else. You dont have to play act his preferred facade.

If you support his facade then you validate it, and reinforce it.

Dont forget if at the end of the day you are incompatible, then you are incompatible BPD or not.

[DreamFlyer99]

"If you support his facade then you validate it, and reinforce it."

I love these truth-filled simple statements. I need to memorize these truth-filled simple statements.

Bam and BAM.

[Grey Kitty]

I like waverider's boundary suggestions better than what I was going to say

I'll just add that discussions of your "faults" should pretty much be off limits anyhow. When they are discussed like that, it is attacking your identity or your existence, and you can't change who you are.

Discussions of specific behaviors are productive, because you can change your behavior.

Actually he deserves the same courtesy... . I wouldn't be surprised if you already give it to him, though.

[DreamFlyer99]

That's a good point, Grey Kitty. It's the "why" behind the "how."

[Chosen]

Hi all.

I totally agree with all that you say, and thanks for the validation that I'm taking correct actions.

I'm sick of playing the facade, as waverider said.  For quite some time I have stopped making excuses for him, and just let him face his consequences.  Ok, so I don't go out and intentionally share what he does, but I don't do anything to hide them either. 

Grey Kitty, I have always kept in mind never to attack personally, and even when I point out certain things to him, I don't attack him.  I don't say because he's hit_, he's unworthy of hit.  Because of course, if I do the same things to him as he did to me, the consequences may be armageddon.  Also, I really do believe that just because he uses these tactics to attack me doesn't mean I have to stoop to that level.  I'm a decent person and I don't like to play dirty.

[waverider]

 

Excellent you are doing the right things, it is just is a painfully slow process to turn things around in real terms.

Main thing is you are getting things straight in your own mind, which is the most important part

[Chosen]

I think I'm slowly regaining my sense of self.  I admit to have been conditioned to stay in the FOG, so that wasn't easy.  Even now, I doubt myself a lot of times, so I just have to stop and ask myself "is this what I believe in?"  "am I acting out of fear"?  It is a sloow process.  Sometimes you see little changes in him, and then rage happens, stuff happens, and you start wondering if they only improved in your mind or did they really improve.

[DreamFlyer99]

I think I'm slowly regaining my sense of self.  I admit to have been conditioned to stay in the FOG, so that wasn't easy.  Even now, I doubt myself a lot of times,

Again, Chosen, I feel ya on this one. I've only learned in the past maybe 5 months to separate the truth of me from the lies about me. There's still some doubt, but for me it becomes clearer as I go, and I see things for what they are when they start happening much sooner than I used to.

it's DEFinitely a process! And the more your SO acts out, the more it keeps your brain mixed up. For a long time I would tell my T that I felt crazy and confused. When we finally sorted out what the behaviors were that were going on at home, she started telling me "when you feel confused it's a sign that something is wrong." I was in such a mixed up state with what seemed to be mind games throwing off my sense of self and reality!

[waverider]

you start wondering if they only improved in your mind or did they really improve.

More importantly have YOU improved in YOUR mind?

Are you more capable of now not allowing the issues and behaviors of others to affect you the same at a core level?

We cant control others, only how we let it impact on us.

[Chosen]

you start wondering if they only improved in your mind or did they really improve.

More importantly have YOU improved in YOUR mind?

I definitely have improved, although, again, I'm still affected by his actions.  Say, he was holding a knife when I went home last night.  I was scared on the inside (I can't help but feel scared because who knows if he's "in a mood" or being normal) but actually he was making steak. 

But actually, my mind is slightly clearer now and I'm able to distinguish things that I caused and things that are beyond by control.  It's still not completely normal because I still second-guess my ideas sometimes, but at least I don't blame myself for everything now, which is a relief.

[tundraphile]

It is the conflict within ourselves that causes such stress and anguish when dealing with a BPD/NPD.  

On the one hand we know the situation is abusive and untenable.  On the other we know if we blow the lid off the facade of our public lives it will only make the abuse worse.  Add to that a healthy fear of leaving, precisely because they are so abusive, and it is absolutely crazymaking.

There are times when I think people like this get to know someone to find their weaknesses.  Those chinks in another's personality armor.  Those weaknesses are then cataloged in their brain, and at (in)appropriate times they are utlilized to control at least the mood, if not the actions of the other person.  Ultimately it is destructive and eventually literally, fatal.  Years of stress on your body will eventually break you down until you are nothing but a broken shell.

Sometimes I think they are incapable of giving or receiving love, period.  At least not the love "normal" people feel toward their spouses.  It requires exhausting mental and emotional strength just to be around one for any length of time.

I'm not sure anyone is capable of having a healthy relationship with a person with strong BPD or NPD characteristics.  Maybe an acceptable relationship, but not healthy.  We still do it for various reasons, but even the best counselors or psychiatrists wouldn't be able to corral these people at their worst.

[bruceli]

Excellent you are doing the right things, it is just is a painfully slow process to turn things around in real terms.

Main thing is you are getting things straight in your own mind, which is the most important part

So true... . so painfully true

[DreamFlyer99]

i was just re-reading this whole thread, and some things hit me anew, like this you said, sjm7411:

I can totally relate to this.  I don't want to tell people how I'm suffering because I am around my family and friends a lot and I don't want things to become awkward between us, so I cover it up as much as I can.  If they knew everything, they would be beyond shocked. 

i think when i hit the point where i realized it was killing me to try to cover it up, that's when i knew i had to learn how to deal differently. Oh Yay the journey!   i know eventually i will be a better person for all that I've learned, but the learning part reeeeeeally stinks.

Because of course, if I do the same things to him as he did to me, the consequences may be armageddon.  Also, I really do believe that just because he uses these tactics to attack me doesn't mean I have to stoop to that level.  I'm a decent person and I don't like to play dirty.

My hand is up high and waving! ME TOO i am yelling. Armageddon. that's what makes it easy to "overlook" what i should NOT. Learning to be strong is really difficult, but i think we are all on the right path anyway... . i, like you CHOSEN, have always been a decent person, an accepting person, and that's why i got so confused by my uBPDh and his words of tearing me down, also by my uBPDmother. The back and forth of their "love you" "hate you" confused the heck out of me for years and years. But finally i can just state "i am a loving, kind and compassionate person" and know that it is truth!

It is the conflict within ourselves that causes such stress and anguish when dealing with a BPD/NPD. 

On the one hand we know the situation is abusive and untenable.  On the other we know if we blow the lid off the facade of our public lives it will only make the abuse worse.  Add to that a healthy fear of leaving, precisely because they are so abusive, and it is absolutely crazymaking.

There are times when I think people like this get to know someone to find their weaknesses.  Those chinks in another's personality armor.  Those weaknesses are then cataloged in their brain, and at (in)appropriate times they are utlilized to control at least the mood, if not the actions of the other person.  Ultimately it is destructive and eventually literally, fatal.  Years of stress on your body will eventually break you down until you are nothing but a broken shell.

Sometimes I think they are incapable of giving or receiving love, period.  At least not the love "normal" people feel toward their spouses.  It requires exhausting mental and emotional strength just to be around one for any length of time.

I'm not sure anyone is capable of having a healthy relationship with a person with strong BPD or NPD characteristics.  Maybe an acceptable relationship, but not healthy.  We still do it for various reasons, but even the best counselors or psychiatrists wouldn't be able to corral these people at their worst.

Yup, Tundraphile! Truth. At least it all feels exactly like that.

My uBPDh isn't constantly in this mode of spitting nastiness out at me, and that's what kept me from seeing the truth of the situation. He's done great things for people, he's willing to help many people, he can occasionally be quite understanding and even compassionate with me, but he doesn't seem concerned with the needs I've expressed need meeting by him. It's all so mixed up!

My body has broken down--fibromyalgia came to visit and decided to stay. That, i'm pretty sure, is from my childhood and adulthood of dealing with this sort of person but not understanding what i was dealing with and how to deal healthily. i really WANT to make this work, we've had a lot of good as a couple, even though i often wondered what the heck he was doing or why. This keeps me in it: nearly 4 decades of history, and all the good we've had.

It's a quandary!