My high functioning "BPD" daughter-in-law

[Brown]

Hi, I just got a welcome to the "family" email after registering to this website.  That made me cry--I don't want this website to be my family--I want my family to be my only son (fyi--he is adopted--but 100% ours with our unending love) our daughter-in-law, and our precious, beautiful 3-year-old grandson!  But apparently that wasn't to be.

When my son married 13 years ago, I was so excited to finally have a "daughter".  My son and I had a good relationship before--we emailed and talked on the phone.  Soon afterwards our relationship started eroding until there is not much communication at all today.  I don't really even know him any longer and it appears we will never know our grandson--they live 1000 miles away.  Some "daughter" she has turned out to be--the few times I have seen her, she will not even look at me or my husband in the eyes!

I started seeing a psychologist about 4 months ago to see if I was clinically depressed because i was crying constantly and unconsolably sad.  Shortly after i began telling him why i was feeling so badly, he immediately recognized BPD in the daughter-in-law based upon no more than I had shared with him.  He stopped me and said he thought he was seeing a personality disorder and he began describing BPD.  I was stunned--I had never heard of anything other than bipolar and schizophrenic mental illnesses.  I didnt know there were personality disorders--just mean and hateful people.  At first I didn't think he knew what he was talking about, but now after studying BPD, I believe him more especially when he makes statements that he would bet his license that she has it.

My story is longer, and this is far from a short intro, so I will share more later.  My psychologist has me reading Stop Walking on Eggshells and suggested I sign up on this website and start posting.  He was one of the initial doctors who helped develop this website.  So here I am--in the family!  Sorry for the long intro.  Now what do i do?  Brown

[mil2bpd]

Dear Brown,

I recognize your story. I, too, am the mother of sons - two of whom are now married having done so within one month of each other 4 years ago to lovely young women. (Or so I thought!) We are fortunate in that we have great relationships with our sons... . again, I can see how things can change so quickly... . but especially with #1 DS's wife, as they live close by. She had a problematic relationship with her own mom, I gladly took her under my wing, loved buying her her wedding gown (just like a daughter!), was even the one in the delivery room with her and DS when GS was born 2 years ago... . she had stayed at our home near the hospital for the two weeks prior while in preterm labor and I had the baby shower here at my home. It seemed we couldn't be closer and people remarked how lucky we both were, especially DIL.

She would speak of her broken childhood, the fact she never knew her biological father, the verbal abuse she took from her mother, the physical from her stepfather... . how happy her son would never know that life. Meanwhile, behind closed doors, the duplicitous life she was creating for DS and GS!  And starting two months ago or so she began distancing from DH and me, things coming to a head when she "inadvertently" sent me an email meant for someone else then really let me know how she felt about me -- splitting at its finest.

I would not take her raging and told her so. I did not know at the time how dire the situation was with DS. He has subsequently told us what living with her has been like and that she has failed multiple attempts at therapy. Thank goodness he can see the illness and hopelessness. Thank goodness he had a prenup. Thank goodness we live close enough to provide him shelter for now, as he will be staying here - and able to bring GS as well when he can. I can only hope and pray the situation works out with the two of them physically and psychologically unharmed, the latter as much as possible with a uBPD in their lives.

You are fortunate that you have connected with an experienced T. What a stroke of luck that he is as knowledgeable and connected with the BPD world! I can certainly sympathize with your depression and grief. Please know you are not alone.  A month ago I never would have believed I'd be saying that... . that I'd be in such company, but look at us, here we are... .

[Scarlet Phoenix]

  Brown

I'm so sorry for what brought you here, I can feel your pain. It must be extremely hard to be cut off from your son and grand-child. I'm still glad you're with us, though, because we help and support each other here and you will see from reading the posts here that you are far from alone. And that there is hope!

Your therapist sounds wonderful, by the way! I'm in therapy, too, like a lot of members here. I find it really helps me. How about you?

Stop Walking on Eggshells is also very helpful, as many of us here have experienced. Please don't forget to take good care of yourself! A helpful link is What does it mean to take care of yourself?

When a family member has BPD, the illness can negatively everyone in the family system, including children, siblings, and in-laws. Senior members on the [L5]  Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw board are experienced with and can help you with setting boundaries, finding relief from FOG, encouraging self-care, improving your handling of relationships impacted by your BPD relative, and pursuing a path of recovery from traumatic experiences. The validation, information, and support will give you strength on your journey.

How can we help you and support you? Where do you wish to go from here? It's okay if you don't know.

I hope you keep posting, it really does help!

[Brown]

Dear mil2BPD and Scarlet Phoenix,

Not sure how to reply to both of you.  I only saw one "reply" and I hit it.  If that is not correct please let me know.

Thank you both so much for such sweet and sympathetic responses to me.  I was in a doctors office when I saw the replies and as I started reading them, I started crying and couldn't even read the responses through my tears!  It took a while for me to finally get them both totally read.  But no one in the doctor's office knew I was crying because I have to sit for 2 hours after taking a drug.

Dear mil2BPD,

I too thought I was going to have a great friendship and relationship with my DIL.  I know you really had to be thrown for a loop when you found out how your DIL actually felt.  That must have been horrible and I am sorry for you. It is all so sad.  I know what you mean about providing so much for them and the grandbabies.  My husband paid $2,000 for a foreign baby bed that the DIL really, really wanted.  I know we could have gotten something cheaper at Toys R Us, but he bought her the one she wanted.  He bought her everything she wanted, the babies bedding, some maternity clothes, etc., but didn't even get as much as a thank you--it was just expected.  We really wanted to buy a lot for him because afterall he is our only grandson, but a grateful attitude would have been appreciated.  However, she is nicer to my husband when she is getting something--her way.  I told my T that I actually see a lot of narcissistic tendencies in her after I read about NPD. 

My T says DIL's abandonment issues probably revolve around her parents divorcing when she was an older teenager and then about a year later, he was killed in an accident.  I really feel sorry for her losses and very upset that she suffers as a uBPD without knowing from what or why.

I am so glad your son is home with you now.  My T knows my son, and he said he is a smart man, and one day he will come around and realize he cannot fill her endless needs.  The T says when that happen, he and my husband and grandson will have a good relationship again.  I certainly hope he is correct, but I don't see how that can happen when my son is so committed to marriage; and since he doesn't know what BPD is, he doesn't realize he is living in a horribly abusive home that is not normal! How can he ever figure it out? But I actually feel somewhat fatalistic for a good outcome of any kind; but my T said he is not going to feel fatalistic and he doesn't want me to.  So I am trying real hard not to feel so strongly just yet.

You are right, I am very fortunately to have a T who immediately recognized BPD and understands it so thoroughly.  I have known him for approximately 20 years, but for the past 10 years he has lived way across town and I don't see him regularly any longer.  He is great professionally.  I believe God led me to him and he has really helped me.  I am not crying as much because he has helped me to see what the problem is and that it is not my fault.

Thank you for your sympathy for my grief and depression.  I hope to speak with you again.  If your need me, I am here for you too!   Brown

Dear Scarlet Phoenix,

It is such a comfort for you to say you can feel my pain.  I am sure that is because you have had so much pain to deal with yourself.  Thank you Scarlet for the links you shared with me.  I have looked at the one about taking care of myself, but I haven't read the one about healing from a BPD relationship it.  I don't see how I can ever heal from the trauma?  It has indeed been a traumatic experience.

I do like being in therapy.  My T initially saved my life when I was so down and couldn't even deal with life at all.  He put me on Lexapro, but it made me feel like a zombie, so he has me cut one pill into fourths and I take 1/4 every night.  That is much better.  Do you take any medications?

Scarlett, I am not sure where I want to go from here.  Maybe you can share some options with me of what to do or where to go.

But I do have a question for you--we are planning a trip to see our kids in a couple of weeks--if they allow us, but of course, we haven't gotten a response to our email.  But I am really scared to go.  My husband really doesn't want to go at all because of the hurt feelings he has and feels like he will feel some new hurt feelings again if we go.  But I want to see my grandson so badly.  It has been a year since we last saw them.  We actually have some family business that we need to talk over with our son, but I am just petrified to be around the DIL.  Do you think we should go?  Any thoughts and/or insights you could provide will be appreciated.

Scarlet, I hope you get this reply and I hope to hear from you again soon.  Thank you so much for such a heart felt welcome to the bpdfamily.  Brown

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Brown   I'd like to join mil2BPD and Scarlet Phoenix in welcoming you to this site... . It seems like there are a lot of us with the same problem as you! My own son (34) is married to (who I truly believe is) an undiagnosed BPD woman. I also have no daughters, and was so happy to finally have one that I didn't have to even raise myself! Hahahahaha! But, soon she exhibited some signs that I didn't understand as possible BPD traits, until just this April when my older son (36) was himself diagnosed with BPD, and then I came here to learn how to cope. Interestingly enough, once I learned how to communicate and understand my BPDs36, I applied that knowledge to dealing with my DIL, and things really have gotten better!

The links that Scarlet Phoenix gave you are really great, and I recommend you read them... . the Healing from a Relationship with a Relative with BPD Board especially; I've learned so much myself from reading those poster's stories and advice! Here are some links that have also made a gigantic difference in how I now deal with my S36 and my DIL:

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

Radical Acceptance for family members

Have you read any books that would help you? The tools of Validation and Radical Acceptance are what have mostly helped me understand the way my BPD loved ones' brains work, and how I can change the way I talk to them... . And that, in turn, has changed the way they react to me! I believe learning these tools can make things better for you and your husband too... . You can learn these tools by reading the links provided above, and by reading these books:

The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder by Randi Kreger

Don't Have To Make Everything All Better by Gary & Joy Lundberg

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder by Valerie Porr

I know that you are nervous about seeing your son and DIL (if you get to!) in a couple of weeks; I was too, every time something was coming up. Until I learned the techniques in the links I gave you, and then in the books I read, above. You have enough time to go and poke around this site and learn the tools to communicate with them before you have your visit~~if you do some reading and learn these tools, it really could make your trip (and relationships!) better... . What do you think? Is there time?

 Rapt Reader

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Dear mil2BPD and Scarlet Phoenix,

Not sure how to reply to both of you.  I only saw one "reply" and I hit it.  If that is not correct please let me know.

You did great   When you reply to people, you can either reply to all like you did now, or you can hit "reply" for one person at the time.

Thank you both so much for such sweet and sympathetic responses to me.  I was in a doctors office when I saw the replies and as I started reading them, I started crying and couldn't even read the responses through my tears!  It took a while for me to finally get them both totally read.  But no one in the doctor's office knew I was crying because I have to sit for 2 hours after taking a drug.

You know what? I cried too, when I was first welcomed here. I think it was because I finally felt understood and heard and valued. Something that was scarce at home. Being here has really empowered me.

You asked me for suggestions on where to go from here. I think you should go see your grand-son. I don't have any, but it sure seems like such a blessing and joy. And I would like to join Rapt Reader in suggesting reading about validation, invalidation and S.E.T (the blue links she gave you) if you can, before you go.

It might also be helpful to leave a post on the main board ([L5]  Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw Board ) and tell your story and ask advice before going. Just like you did here! There are many members there who will be able to offer you a lot of empathy and some good advice.

And if you feel like you're not ready to go, that it's too much, that's okay, too! There's no pressure. We're happy to support you whatever you decide to do and to be there for you in times of confusion, too.

And as for healing from the trauma, it hope you'll find your way. We're here for you! Please write and share on the main board and you'll see that the collected wisdom and warmth of our members may help you. You might just be surprised!  

[Brown]

Hi Rapt Reader and Scarlet Phoenix,

So good to hear from both of you.  I really appreciate your valuable input to me.

Dear Rapt Reader,

Thank you so much for your warm welcome.

I am so excited that things are better for you in dealing with your DIL.  That gives me lots of hope.  Hopefully, I can learn and things will get better with mine DIL too.  Thank you so much for the links you shared.  I plan on reading them before we go on our trip.  The one titled "Communication using Validation" especially appeals to me.  My T has me reading "Walking on Egg Shells" right now.  I really enjoyed the first section of it.  Still not finished reading the book.

I have really gotten a lot of help from this website before I signed up.  After T quickly (after I had only been talking to him for about 10 minutes) told me that he believed I was dealing with a personality disorder called BPD.  I was stunned!  I had never heard of it, but I immediately started researching BPD on the web and came across this website.  The first post I read was from someone with an uBPD DIL!  It was like I had been slapped in the face.  It sounded just like I could have been the one writing that post.  That was the first time I realized my T had hit the nail on the head.  I was in such denial and just thought she was simply mean and hateful.  "Believing" what the T told me helped me function over the next few days.  Hopefully these sites you shared will really help me to deal with her in a productive way.  Thank you so much.

Rapt Reader, I really appreciate your encouragement about our pending trip to see them.  My T has prayed with me that his heart will be softened and T expects that our trip with be a good one.

Hope to visit with you again soon.  Brown

______

Hi Scarlet, it is truly a validating moment when someone else who has sympathy and understanding responds to a post.  Glad to hear you had similar emotions and cried.  I feel like all I do is cry.  The Lexapro helps.  I have never been a depressed person, but this has been so traumatic that I couldn't function at all until he prescribed it.  I never thought I would see the day when I had to take something for any kind of depression--and that is depressing in itself!  Did your T put you on a medication too?

Thank you for your suggestions--if the kids let us come--we will go see them.  I do plan on reading the links Rapt Reader suggested before we go.  I am recently retired, so I have the time to read it.  I am excited to read them.  I will also read the Healing link you suggested.  My T says I am in the "learning" phase of this journey through BPD, so I plan to read all I can from this website.  I will read the L5 Healing link you suggested as well.

Questions--if I see a post that I can relate to, is it okay for me to reply to that person?  I saw another newbie like myself today with a BPD DIL.  My heart feels for her and I thought about responding, but I don't really feel qualified so not sure if it would have been okay or not?

Look forward to hearing from you again.  Brown

[Rapt Reader]

Questions--if I see a post that I can relate to, is it okay for me to reply to that person?  I saw another newbie like myself today with a BPD DIL.  My heart feels for her and I thought about responding, but I don't really feel qualified so not sure if it would have been okay or not?

Of course, Brown; you can read and respond to any and every post you feel connected to! We are so happy to have you here, and want you to get all you can from everything this site has to offer... .

You sound like a kind soul, and I hope with all my heart that you can reconnect with your son and DIL and grandchild... . There's nothing as sad as not being able to be close to our children and their children. I'm confident that as you read and learn and understand the concepts in the book ("Stop Walking on Eggshells" and at the links given to you, that things will start to get better. You seem committed to making it work; that is what it takes: a commitment to change the way we communicate and understand our loved ones... . When we change ourselves, then change can begin with the people we love. I can tell your heart is in it; I'm sure the light at the end of the tunnel will be there for you~~hopefully sooner rather than later... . Keep posting and asking questions (the best place is at the Healing from a Relationship with an In-Law link that Scarlet Phoenix gave you above); we are all here for you 

[Brown]

Hi Rapt Reader,

Thank you for your quick response.  I will respond to that women who touched me.  I know how good it made me feel to see that someone else related and responded.  Thank you for your sweet remarks and well wishes and your encouraging comments.  I appreciate you being here for me.

I am somewhat of a compulsive person--the kind who throws their entire being into a project until it is completed to perfection!  This BPD journey makes me feel compelled to read and learn everything I can about it and I basically do nothing else until I get something figured out.  And I am the kind of person who talks and talks and then talks more until I figure the problem out.  My husband, bless his heart, has lived with me for 45 years--talking and talking out problems!  My life has been so abundantly filled with the blessings and love of Jesus and I never thought I would be 60 something trying to figure out such a major life battle.  But here I am... .

I am also extra committed because all of my "eggs" are in one basket (as I only have one "child" and if I lose him, I feel like I have lost everything.  He was adopted and it took us such a long time to get him and I was a stay-at-home mom and I am just soo hurt that a wedge has been driven between us that is not his fault nor mine.  And I know my DIL doesn't realize she isn't normal; and I know she wouldn't have asked for the life of a BPD, and that makes me feel badly too.  She is beautiful and I love her.  But like you said "hopefully sooner rather than later" things will be better.

Thanks a million, Rapt  listening ear.  Brown

P.S.  How do I insert the smiley faces into the body of my replies?

[Rapt Reader]

P.S.  How do I insert the smiley faces into the body of my replies?

Hi, Brown... . When you click on "Reply" and get the white box you type in, do you see all those icons? The Welcome to bpdfamily.com guy, the waving "Hi!" guy, the thumbs-up guy? (You get the picture!) Well, when you want one to be in the text somewhere, just put your cursor in the exact spot you want the icon to go, left-click to make it "stick", then take your mouse (or if you are on a laptop, use the mousepad with your finger) and bring it to the icon you want, when the hand shows up on it, then left-click on the icon and it will end up where you put the cursor. Is that understandable? (sounds confusing to me when I read it! Hahahahaha!).

I'm really sorry for all the conflict that is going on with your DIL; we have our own problems with our beautiful DIL from time to time, and I cannot stand it when it happens! I do know the tools work once you get a clear understanding of how to do them; don't give up, take your time to understand it all, and please don't beat yourself up it they don't work perfectly--or you can't do them perfectly--right away. Keep on plugging away, and know that you are trying hard, and she is not cognizant of the trauma she is causing... . Her brain is just wired to see things in a different way than we are; her perceptions of reality cause her to react in ways we just wouldn't ourselves. Sad, but true... .

You are very much like me; I do the same studying and trying and never giving up till I get something "right" or "fix" it. Most people on this site are like that; if we didn't care, we wouldn't be here... . And I do think that your faith will help make it work; you were led here for a good reason... .

[Brown]

Hi Rapt Reader,

Do you stay logged in all of the time?  Even on holidays?

Hope you had a great Happy Fourth of July day with your family.   We were mostly alone today, but went out to eat dinner with 2 other couples.  I was feeling down, but son finally texted a "Happy 4th" and that was it--only 2 words!  No Face Time with the baby or anything--and that always hurts my feelings.  I know I need to be grateful for any contact I am lucky enough to get, but it is still painful.  Even my sisters are 500 miles away.  We are in this area all by ourselves.  We are thinking about moving back "home" after husband retires--hopefully next year.  Son has not been home in 3 years and will never live in this area again.  He is too happy 1000 miles away.  Oh well... .

P.S.  How do I insert the smiley faces into the body of my replies--something must be wrong with the settings on my computer because that doesn't work for me.  This is what I get when I follow the instructions for the guy with the 3 questions marks above his head:           My husband manages our computer, so I am sure something must be weird.  However, your instructions were clear.

I had another question for you and now I forgot it.  If I remember it later, I will ask then.

I am going to go to bed now, but tomorrow I am going to start reading all those suggested links.  Good night.  Brown

[Brown]

Weird--when I hit post the code turned into the icon?  Sorry, but thanks for instructions.  Brown

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi agian Brown!

I'm glad Rapt Reader was here to answer your question.

How are you today?

I have never been a depressed person, but this has been so traumatic that I couldn't function at all until he prescribed it.  I never thought I would see the day when I had to take something for any kind of depression--and that is depressing in itself!  Did your T put you on a medication too?

It's no wonder you're depressed, many of our members come here depressed and out of hope. The good news is that many also are able to turn things around, by the help of this board, a therapist, educating themselves on BPD and realising necessary steps to take care of themselves, too, in all of this. I was struggling with depression too, and my therapist offered medication but finally I decided to try without. And I'm much better now. I wish healing for you, too!

And it can start, slowly, when you're ready, by continuing posting here. It might not seem like much, but it helps to have others input and just get things out and maybe clear your mind.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi Rapt Reader,

Do you stay logged in all of the time?  Even on holidays?

Hope you had a great Happy Fourth of July day with your family.

Hi, Brown    Hahahahaha! I know sometimes it seems that way (even to me!), but yesterday I stayed at home with my family doing things around the house and yard, so I did leave my laptop on all day and checked in regularly to fill in during a quiet time at home, but a busy time on the site. 

I'm sorry you just got a short text from your son yesterday; actually my own S34 (the H of my uDBPDdil) didn't even do that... . If I didn't have my status of his "friend" on Facebook, I wouldn't even have known where he was or what he was doing! I do use FB to at least feel like I'm still a part of his life; we are still on speaking terms, but I give them lots space to live their lives (they just had their first child, my very first grandchild! about a month ago--I still haven't seen him yet... . ). Thank God for Facebook; without it (and the occasional email with pics) I wouldn't even know what my very first grandchild looked like. We do have plans to see them this month sometime; not sure which day, but it's supposed to happen... . As long as they are talking to us, I'm happy that things will work out; without communication all is lost, you know?

So, I'm actually really happy you got that text! It's a sign that there is hope still... . I have had to first grieve the fact that my relationship with my S34 & DIL will never be what I'd always fantasized it would be; then let go of that grief and try to not obsess over that loss; then move on to understand that they are probably not purposely trying to hurt me, but live their lives the way they feel they need to. Once I got to that stage, it has been easy for me to just study and learn how to communicate with them better and then take any sign of positivity and run with it! I'm at the "hope stage" now and the "it is what it is stage" and I just try to be happy that we are all talking again and someday I'll meet my new grandchild... .

[hoping4hope]

You all are a bunch of totally cool people.

Maybe I should start a new post, and the administrators can move it if they like, but you guys are exactly who can help.

Future uBPD DIL has already alienated uBPD son and now claims she is pregnant after the wedding was postponed.  We are at limited contact. But here at the beginning of this unwanted journey... . well what do you wish someone had told you?  I'll listen I promise.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, hoping4hope... . That is a great question, and I think it does fit in right here. I only found out about BPD this April 2013, when my older S36 was diagnosed with it at a Dual Diagnosis Center which included this website's address with his discharge papers. I came here looking for help with him and got it, along with the realization that this is also what I am dealing with when it comes to uBPDdil (a great side benefit!).

What I wish I knew many years ago before my S34 even got engaged to DIL? I wish I'd read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Randi Kreger, "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" by Gary & Joy Lundberg, and "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr.

[Rapt Reader]

Continuing... .

I also wish I'd known about Validation, S.E.T., and Radical Acceptance. If I'd had these tools prior to their eventual engagement and marriage, the last many years would've been so much easier!

Maybe Brown has some sage advice, too? I think that understanding that my S34 and his wife are not trying to hurt me, but that the behaviors that drive me so crazy are part of some BPD dance the two of them are doing, would've been the most beneficial in starting my quest to learn how to communicate with them... .

(Some how my above--incompleted--post ended up making it to the thread!)

[Brown]

Hi Scarlet Phoenix, Rapt Reader, and Hoping 4 hope,

I was sitting here and typed for an hour responding to the three of you and then hit post and the message just disappeared and didn't go through.  So now I have to start all over.  Yuck!  Do you know what happened to it?

Hey Scarlet,

Yes, Rapt Reader was here for me all day yesterday.  I believe she and I (and you) all have such similar stories that we could be best friends if we knew one another.  I actually wish I had a face to face friend going through the same struggles to share with, but since I don't, I have y'all to give me love  , understanding  , encouragement  , and support  .  Thank you so much for all of that.

Scarlet, I appreciate you understanding of the depression I am in and for allowing me the time to slowly move towards healing; and for all of your responses, advise, and opinions.  You are the best!  Chat with you later, Brown

hit______

Hi Rapt Reader,

I am so grateful for the time your shared with me yesterday.  I am sure holidays are really hard times for people struggling with BPD.  Thanks for being there for me. 

Rapt Reader, I feel like our stories are soo similar.  I haven't told you that my son is 41 years old and his BPD wife is 36.  I am sorry you didn't hear from your son yesterday, but glad you have facebook to help you keep up.  I don't think my son would friend me even if I knew how to facebook.  Maybe one day!  I am so excited for your first grandchild and that you are now a grandmother.  I really hope you get to finally meet him this month as you are planning.  Keep me posted, I want to hear how everything goes when you meet him.  I know your heart will just melt as he wraps you around his little finger.  We were lucky enough to be allowed to go for the birth of our grandson, but I think stresses, or whatever caused DIL to get worse, and ties and communication have gone downhill since that time.

I really loved the statements you made (I don't know how to insert quote--I tried and it didn't work) about how you have given them enough space to live their lives... . and understand that they are probably not purposely trying to hurt you.  I feel like I give my kids space too.  I rarely ever contact them.  And you know, I think he might be "missing" us a little more because we have gotten a little more contact recently--Mother's Day and Father's Day.  Boy was I surprised.  Last year, we got nothing--no call, text, etc.  And it was comforting to me for you to say you don't think he is purposely trying to hurt you.  I would like to think that my son is purposely not trying to hurt me, even though he does hurt my feelings terribly.

Do you have other children to help fill your void?  I don't--all of my eggs are in one basket--to coin a phrase.  And that is a major regret of mine--that I didn't adopt a house full of children.

I am glad to hear that you are at the "hope stage" and to hear you use the word "happy" and "talking again" and "someday meet new grandchild."  I think that is all positive for you.  I "hope" to use the word "happy" one day again.

Look forward to hearing from you again soon.  Brown

_______________

Hi Hoping4hope, so glad to meet you.  Sorry for your "unwanted" journey, but glad you are seeking support and hope you get it here.  I have been on this website only since last Wednesday and have really gotten lots of help and encouragement.  I hope you do to.

You questions about "what do you wish someone had told you?"  I don't think anything could have been said by anyone to me that would have prepared me for this awful situation.  I had lived such a blessed life, and at 60 something, I would have never thought I would be doing anything other than having a great time with my son, DIL, and grandchildren.  But I do have many regrets for the way I raised him.  The major one is that we didn't send him to a Christian University and that when his grades started dropping in college, I REGRET that we didn't make him come home and tell him he could go back to school when he decided that he wanted to pay for it and make good grades (which he is highly capable of doing).  Then maybe he would have never met this "lovely" girl and we wouldn't have gone through all of this heartache, not to mention all the MONEY we spent on his education.   I am just grateful that my good friend agreed to be my T (he is a Ph.D. psychologist in family, communication, etc.).  Turns our he is an expert in BPD--I think he has dealt with it a lot.  So that would be one suggestion I would make for you--get a T if you don't already have one.  Also, hoping4hope, please read everything these experienced people on this website tell you to read.  Everything just seems to hit the nail on the head.

I wish you the best in your struggles and hope to hear from you again.  Brown

[mil2bpd]

I have been trying to post from my cell pphone while on vacation... . not easy! Also fi ding its not easy explaining BPD to others. Reading Stop Caretaming the bp... . excellent book but not how I planned on spending vacation!


     

[Scarlet Phoenix]

  Brown: Yes, being here is a great relief! And it's wonderful to see that we are not alone and that there's some sort of system to the craziness and that there are thing we can do 

 Hoping4hope: I agree with Rapt Reader, that IS a great question. May I suggest that you make a separate post about it? I'm sure others would like to read/participate and they might not see it here.

[mil2bpd]

Scarlet, I appreciate you understanding of the depression I am in and for allowing me the time to slowly move towards healing; and for all of your responses, advise, and opinions.  You are the best!  Chat with you later, Brown

hit______

How are you doing today, Brown? Even though I'm on vacation (ha! as if I can escape the thoughts of what is going on back at the home front) I am thinking of you and the network here, particularly as I tried sharing this background with friends here who don't "get it"... . but that's for another post... .

I understand the desire to go back and explore the 'what if's" and "if only's" but I think that's part of the bargaining process and quite honestly, energy that could be diverted elsewhere at this point.

I felt it, briefly, at the outset of this and even verbalized it to my son - saying if there was anything I did in any way that contributed to this, I apologize. And then I cast that to the wind. It no longer needs the energies diverted there.

My DH felt it too, "maybe we encouraged this relationship, she seemed like such a nice girl... . ". He also wondered if she has been of our faith this wouldn't have been as likely to have occurred.

The truth is, I believe, our children ultimately map their own destiny within a basic framework and set of circumstances. Plus, unfortunately, BPD crosses all religious backgrounds, all cultural and societal classes. The wind up is, this is the situation we find ourselves - and our children find themselves in - now. It cannot be undone. We all must move forward with whatever tools, coping mechanisms, insights and support systems we can garner now to make the course ahead a smoother one for all of us. Regrets - regrettably! - serve no purpose now except to drive our guilt in deeper and let's try to cast that aside now. 

I hope this in some way helps ease the pain and doubts you may be feeling now.

[mil2bpd]

   Sorry!  I don't have the knack of quoting down!

[hoping4hope]

Yes, you are all correct.  I will read those books and am working on getting a therapist for myself and my husband.  What absolutely floors me is that I had gotten away from a uBPD dad and a diagnosed significant other... . many years ago. (Got the s/o to a therapist and we learned about it together.) Then I fell for this lovely nonBPD guy and bam I'm right back in the middle of 3,  yes 3 pwBPDs (each with their own variety).  Yikes!  

Mostly they squabble amongst themselves, but they all agree on hating me.  They can't con me, I don't submit to the emotional torture, or their skewed version of the truth and so as a "rock" of sanity I am the identified enemy. The thing is I have the skill set to help at least two of them, but that would end the crazy dance... .

But writing here and listening to your stories helps me get past denial and anger to acceptance. I love this man or would have been gone long ago. Thank you I will read what you have suggested.  And I will post this question by itself.

[Brown]

Hi hoping4hope and mil2BPD,

Hope you both had a good weekend in spite of BPD issues.  I appreciate each of your responses so much.  Thank you,

Dear hoping4hope,

I cannot believe you are having to deal with 3 BPD personalities at the same.  You must be a very strong person.

hoping4hope, I hope you can find a good T.  Mine was one of the original psychologists who helped get this website going, so he knows BPD well.  He recognized it in my DIL in about 10 or 15 minutes.  I was very blessed to have found him.

hoping4hope, you made me laugh today with one of your statements:  "Mostly they squabble amongst themselves, but they all agree on hating me."  You probably didn't intend that remark to be funny, but it hit me that way (however, I am not laughing at you and hope you don't see it that way).  Also, I liked what you said about "ending the crazy dance" as that is exactly what BPD is--CRAZY.  And I now realize that pw/BPD want things to be crazy and don't intend to stop the crazy dancing!

"Writing here and listening to your stories helps me... . "  I  have gone back and tried read some of the older postings involving DIL's.  They do help to read them.  Right now I am still thinking I could have written that posting.  That is not necessarily a good feeling, but helps to educate me on BPD and to "helps me get past denial and anger to acceptance."  I had a hard time believing that my T was correct.  But as each day passes and I read more, he is 100% correct which helps me move towards acceptance.

Look forward to chatting with you again.  Get some rest tonight.  Brown

_______________hit

Dear mil2BPD,

Hope you had a good vacation even though you had to do a lot of studying.  Hope you are recovering from being gone.  It always takes me a day to sleep off a vacation once we get back home.  Not to mention getting all the unpacking done and laundry washed.  But usually the vacations are worth it for me.

I appreciate you asking how I am doing today.  Makes me feel good to know you were thinking about me.  I had an appointment with my T this morning and T days are usually easier than the others.  Still haven't heard from Son if we can come the dates for sent to them.  So that makes me somewhat teary-eyed.  So thank you for asking.

Your remarks about the "what if's" and "if only's" were good.  I know it is too late to go through them and I know the kids have their own lives to live and "our children ultimately map their own destiny", but I am the kind of person who has to questions all of my decisions--and I carry a lot of guilt--always have.  The other day I had my giant oak trimmed, and afterwards, I questioned my decision--I have to go over every available options--and I felt like I didn't get enough quotes!   So, for me, I think it helps me to ponder situations over and over again hoping to make the right decision(s) so that I can move forward.  Maybe that is part of the "healing" process for me.  However, it would be wonderful if regrets could undo the past!  I think I could live with that!  LOL

Thank you mil2BPD for trying to ease the "pain and doubts" I am feeling."  Today my T told me that I have come a long way in 4 months--but he said I will need therapy for about a year!  I wonder if I am CRAZY to need him for such a long time.  However, that is one thing this the T and this website have shown me--I am not alone and these feelings are not CRAZY.

Thanks again, hope to chat with you soon.  Brown

[mil2bpd]

Good to see you back, Brown, and great to hear about today's session with T! It sounds like he's mapped out some good LTGs (long term goals) for you and a year does not sound all that bad, considering the crazy-making the pwBPD puts us through. Keep that in perspective -- besides, crazy is a relative term.

I hear you with how you need to approach things, with the thinking through. I actually did a lot of that myself - it's funny, I'd not thought about that for awhile! There's a little irony in there, I guess - thinking about not thinking  ! Maybe that's a therapy thing that evolved from doing some "feeling work" of my own but it's odd how I just don't even do it that much anymore and trust my gut more. I'm not putting it down in any way - in fact, I have my own tree, a Mesquite, that I LOVE and was crushed for days after when I allowed my landscaper to "trim" it <cough> hatchet it - that I was practically obsessing for days afterward thinking "if only" (there I went!) the tree service guys had done it instead! But good news is 2 years later it's doing just fine.

Won't it be great when we can look back and say, "Oh that was two years ago and look at how we're doing just fine now"? I'm feeling confident we will be.  Look at how well armed we are just by being here. And how proactive you're being by reaching out to your son to prepare for your visit.

In "Stop Caretaking the BP" book I just finished, the T who wrote it went into detail about how BP/NPs have such a hard time preparing for change - one PD man needed close to a year to get his head around having company for Thanksgiving. I'm wondering if that's what your DIL is possibly going through now? I'll give her that benefit of the doubt. Hopefully you will be hearing soon. At least you've still got some contact going there... .

Thanks for highlighting hoping4hope's lines - I'd have missed that part about "they all agree on hating me".  I have come to recognize many uBP/NPDs or those with traits -- and I think part of their heightened sensitivities allows them to clue in on those of us who are aware of them.  As a result, they know to be wary of us, hence "hate" us early on in our interactions with them. Been there, know 'em! And now, doing my best to avoid 'em. So much easier when they aren't family members!

Good night - sleep well,

MIL2BPD

[hoping4hope]

Morning brown and miL Humor is how I cope. So if you are laughing  thats good. My liltle group of pwBPD is a mom, son and his girlfriend who is just like dear OId mom. Ugg writing on my cell phone is hard. I don't have any good memories to give me the strength to deal with their aggression. As the new wife many many years after the divorce they have been downright mean since the beginning. Normally as you said mil I'd walk away. Do you think that the fond memories you have are a help?

Being thoughtful is good and reflecting on our choices is adult and mature... . all of those good things.  It is just that a pwBPD seems to like to keep you second guessing yourself. I keep trying to introduce therapy to my dear gentle thoughtful husband because the three of them just run him through the wringer. I need a therapist to tell him what is going on. It is so hard when you see his pain and need to wait for him to be willing to acknowlege that his son has the same mental illness as his ex. Fortunately other friends and relatives get it. They give a lot of support.

[Brown]

So good to  hear from you hoping4hope,

I can't believe your BPD son selected a girl with the same crazies.  That is scary.  I really feel for you because you might be in for a roller coaster ride and your ride may just be beginning.  So Sorry.  Keep talking and hopefully you can cope better.

Yes, hoping4hope, Son and I were very close when he was growing up and we had a great relationship.  But the fond memories do have to keep me going.  I love my memories and I can reflect on them, which gives me a little hope that someday things will be good again.  And I have to hang onto what little hope I can find in this entire ordeal.  Deep down, I know that this son loves me and his dad.  T says son has to royally pay for any contact he has with us.  So I guess he will get into trouble with his wife for our visit.

I am glad you have a dear sweet, sympathetic husband too.  Mine will not go to therapy, even with me, he even knows and loves my T too.  We know him very well, so we call him by his first name and he refers to us by our first names.  But my husband does listen to me and he gains knowledge from my what I tell him the T says to me  He has even read some of these posts and has read a little from the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells."

I know what you mean about the pwBPD liking to keep us second guessing ourselves.  I think that is their entire job description.  My son just today, finally, let his dad know the dates for our trip in 10 days are good.  I know she had to enjoy knowing that we were unsure about what to do.  That continues to give the pwBPD the upper hand--which is what they want all of the time--to be in control.  CRAZY!  My T uses that word all of them time when talking about pwPBD and he is so right.  I have learned so much from my T.  He gave me things to read and I did.  He told me to go to this website and I did.  He said I am in the "learning" stage for this journey.  He said I have to arm myself with everything I can learn so I will be able to take care of myself and be okay--instead of crazy.  Also he said I have to learn about it so that I can be there for my son when he wakes up and needs us.  T says that WILL happen.  I pray he is right.  I can't wait for that day.

I am so glad you have some other friends and relatives who get "it" and give you support.  Thank you again, hoping4hope, for writing.  It really helps me to focus better to talk to others with the same and/or similar problems.  Brown