Seeing her break down felt devasting

[Depression = 72% of members]

Last night was both a break through for and the worst feeling I have had in nearly all my life.  I have been more assertive lately and have tried to get W to do small little things fo rher selff from time to time that she normally would expect me to do for her.  It has become a chore and a requirement rather just doing something nice for someone.  In doing so I am told that I'm mean or rude or disrespectful. Now I have really looked closely at the actions she saay I use when denying her these things. I have never been able to say no to her before and perhaps I come off a little less nice than I could. I am not bitting her head off as she says I am though.

Which brings me to last night. Her feet were dirty from not wearing shoes out side jjst to run to get the mail. We were just sittign down to watch a little tv to relax. She asks me to wash her feet. I declined and she was a littel taken back that I refused.  After about an hour or mare later... . after she washed her own feet she said she wanted to talk about my behavior. The conversation started out calm. I thought maybe this could go well... . wrong! She upped the noise and when I said can we talk about this and maybe not yell or be so loud. She just said she was talking. It go ugly and louder. I validated her feelings several times at which she flat out said stop doing that. I don't want you to do that. Is that something you T told you to do?  Then she said we are doen and over with... Having heard that before I didn't take the bait. That made her more angry. Went to bed and she said she was calling someone in the  morning to end it.  My silence drove her to another anger fit.  I remained calm and tried to be in  a soothing tone the whole time. She couldn't beleive I had no emotion. I always had emotion.

Then the words "Will you go back to the way things were where you listen to me and did what I wanted you to do?" I said I do not thing that it is fair tat I can not have an option to even say no to a request of yours. That fact that it is an expected requirement makes me feel liek a robot. I said no I will do things for you to be nice to you and to hel pyou out. I will not be expected to do them without question. "Thast no acceptable. Either you go back to the way you were or its done." I said I don't want this to be over I think my request is not unreasonable and a compromise we can both enjoy very much. I said I'm not going to be compleled to do things without the abiltity to have an opinion or option if I wan tto d them or not. I will not be force to be endentured to them... Thats were she sobbed and cryied uncontrollable fo rabout an hour or more. I felt so helpless. I coul dhere her anguish and her feeling just all come out. I sensed her struggle and could do nothing to help. Of course when I did I was pushed away. I have seen her very upset before but this was the worst. I was liek all her emotions were built up and the flood gates opened.  This has been so hard on her as much as me but we are not even on the same level of understanding the situation., This sucks.

[Cipher13]

Last night was both a break through for and the worst feeling I have had in nearly all my life.  I have been more assertive lately and have tried to get W to do small little things fo rher selff from time to time that she normally would expect me to do for her.  It has become a chore and a requirement rather just doing something nice for someone.  In doing so I am told that I'm mean or rude or disrespectful. Now I have really looked closely at the actions she saay I use when denying her these things. I have never been able to say no to her before and perhaps I come off a little less nice than I could. I am not bitting her head off as she says I am though.

Which brings me to last night. Her feet were dirty from not wearing shoes out side jjst to run to get the mail. We were just sittign down to watch a little tv to relax. She asks me to wash her feet. I declined and she was a littel taken back that I refused.  After about an hour or mare later... . after she washed her own feet she said she wanted to talk about my behavior. The conversation started out calm. I thought maybe this could go well... . wrong! She upped the noise and when I said can we talk about this and maybe not yell or be so loud. She just said she was talking. It go ugly and louder. I validated her feelings several times at which she flat out said stop doing that. I don't want you to do that. Is that something you T told you to do?  Then she said we are doen and over with... Having heard that before I didn't take the bait. That made her more angry. Went to bed and she said she was calling someone in the  morning to end it.  My silence drove her to another anger fit.  I remained calm and tried to be in  a soothing tone the whole time. She couldn't beleive I had no emotion. I always had emotion.

Then the words "Will you go back to the way things were where you listen to me and did what I wanted you to do?" I said I do not thing that it is fair tat I can not have an option to even say no to a request of yours. That fact that it is an expected requirement makes me feel liek a robot. I said no I will do things for you to be nice to you and to hel pyou out. I will not be expected to do them without question. "Thast no acceptable. Either you go back to the way you were or its done." I said I don't want this to be over I think my request is not unreasonable and a compromise we can both enjoy very much. I said I'm not going to be compleled to do things without the abiltity to have an opinion or option if I wan tto d them or not. I will not be force to be endentured to them... Thats were she sobbed and cryied uncontrollable fo rabout an hour or more. I felt so helpless. I coul dhere her anguish and her feeling just all come out. I sensed her struggle and could do nothing to help. Of course when I did I was pushed away. I have seen her very upset before but this was the worst. I was liek all her emotions were built up and the flood gates opened.  This has been so hard on her as much as me but we are not even on the same level of understanding the situation., This sucks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[SadWifeofBPD]

"That's not acceptable. Either you go back to the way you were or its done."

Wow... . she's basically saying that you must go back to being her personal slave or she'll divorce you. 

Good for you that you held your ground.  I'm guessing that she won't follow thru with her threats.  She may "call someone" but I doubt she'll actually go thru with it. 

This sounds like a two year old who says, "buy me this toy or I'm running away from home."  Then throws a tantrum when Daddy says "no." 

It may have been painful to see her upset after this, but you did the right thing. 

BTW... . does she have access to money to pay an atty?  If not, then she'll get stopped right there anyway. 

[Cipher13]

She has told me we are done enough times for me to know that was a threat and that it has never been acted upon. I won't stop her from going trough with it. However I do not think she will. It was very painful to watch that. At times I saw it for what it was. An adult trantrum. But she can weave the most hear renching guilt ridden words back at me. Again almost seamlessly blaming me. Now I am not angel without a mark on me. I am not perfect and have lied to her and been caught before. The lying mainly to prevent outburst and to secrelty do things I can not get permission to do... . example email parents, drink a cup of coffee, go to a guitar store, or library and anythign else that she might not like or think I should have like that.

I do not think she access $ for an attorney. She desparatley needs me to be there for her to have things done. Or the very least just be there as a sense that she isn't alone.  The mere mention that 1% of the time I would liek to have a bit of time to myself or with a friend she flew off the handle to say why not 100% then as thats what it feels like to me when you say that.

I can not have my own personality or life as this conflicts with her always needing to be with me so she can see I'm not cheating or doing anything wrong.   

[Alfalffasgirl]

That isn't right. She can not expect you to be with her 100% of the time. ESPECIALLY with BPD. You NEED that time to rejuvenate from the stress that is caused by being with someone with BPD. I think you handled yourself perfectly. And from now on NO MORE LIES. You have to be honest with her and tell her you need stress free time in your life so that you can be a better partner for her while also having something just for you. If she doesn't trust you, let her walk away. If you are doing nothing wrong except getting a little peace for yourself, do not feel guilty. She needs to learn that you can have time to yourself and still have a good relationship with her. DO NOT let her control you, you will regret it. NO ONE should have to live their life that way.

[Cipher13]

How can I get that trough to her. Every second she can not see me is so hard for her. I took a second 2 weeks ago as we discussed for some extra money. The extra time we spent apart she said was too much for her to handle and that it was the perfect cover for cheating as she could not text me every second.

[Alfalffasgirl]

That's a hard one. She obviously has major trust issues. But it is not good for her to be that needy either. Maybe you should "train" her to trust you. Be completely honest with her that this little exercise I am suggesting is to help her build trust. Tell her you want to earn her trust because you don't want her to feel that awful feeling of mistrust. Think of something that would make you happy that could be done in a very small amount of time, like go for a small 15 minute walk. When you get back, tell her how proud you are of her allowing you to do that because you know it is hard for her. Be very loving and appreciative. Gradually increase the time of your alone time each time rewarding her good behavior with love and affection. Eventually I think she will realize that it is good for both of you. And she might gain self esteem and some distance from her trust issues too. But always remember this is SO hard for her... . do not do anything to hurt her trust in you. It will ruin everything and set her back.

[Cipher13]

I have been doing somethig similar to what you have suggested. When I do go places... like the groccery store or to put gas in her car I send a text when I arrived. NAd text when I am leaving. She has accountability and knows what is going on as its happening. The probelm comes in when I'm at home for the 2 hours priot to her getting home where she wants every 10 mins updates. Originially it was every 5 mins. I had to negotiate to 10.   Thats not always possible when I am doing other chores around the house.

Probelm is its noever perfect and never good enough. I am being forced to change and continue to change how I live and who I am to make sure she is able to be happy. Not normally a probelm but when its BPD as soon as you are capable to mantain and then they don't feel its enough its time to up the anty and now I do more and more to try to acheive her felling that I care enough for her.

[Alfalffasgirl]

I applaud you in trying to please her. But your needs must be met too and what she is demanding isn't loving. Please stand up for yourself. You seem like a very helpful partner. Make your own list of things you are willing to do and include things you need for yourself. If she isn't co operative she is not in a partnership she is in a selfish tyranny. Tell us something she does for you that make you feel special enough to continue in this relationship. I want to know there is something worth saving here and that you are not in an abusive relationship that could destroy you emotionally. Because I can not advise you to stay if that is true NO ONE deserves an abusive relationship. NO ONE.

[Cipher13]

Alfalffagirl

Thank you for your support.  I can't sya ita lways bad or always like this. I post when things are bad becasue I need an outlet. I do not have any friends and the only family I have are her parents and mine via email which she doesn't know I talk to. You wanted me to give you somethings that she does to make me feel loved... . Wow I got to be honest I'm not jumping to something right away. Thats kind of scaring me. Should I have to think about it so hard? Am I still up set from the other night? Why is it all the things I am goin over in my head are things I do to try to make her feel special? Or things she tells me that she likes. Like she often tells me I'm cute. Now its in little kid type voice most of the time.  But thats not what you are lookinf for. I will have to get back to you on this. Let me think some more about it. This is not good.

[SadWifeofBPD]

When I do go places... like the groccery store or to put gas in her car I send a text when I arrived. NAd text when I am leaving. She has accountability and knows what is going on as its happening. The probelm comes in when I'm at home for the 2 hours priot to her getting home where she wants every 10 mins updates. Originially it was every 5 mins. I had to negotiate to 10.   Thats not always possible when I am doing other chores around the house.

This sort of thing needs to stop.  it's not reasonable and it just "feeds the beast".  Is there a 3rd Party person that she would trust? 

I suspect that she doesn't like being around other people because in the past others have pointed out how controlling she is. 

You also need to get some friends.  Pronto.

[Cipher13]

I know I need some friends. The ones i had prior to being married have been more or less pushed away to non existance.  One of my very good friends was supposed to be best man at our wedding.  She always tried to isolate me from frineds and roomates. One time this particular frined could not make my college grad party which just consisted of a very small group of people. Not a big deal. He had made other plans prior to. Originally he for got about them said "sure" then was like "aw man not that day i can't".  She was convincing to point out how he wasn't there for me and blew me off.  Similar to how she isolated me from my parents. It took a lot more but she has skills in that department. Before I knew it I was totally believing that may parents hated her and didn't accept her and that they treated me like a child. (her fear is they will take me from her)

It wasn't unitl maybe 3 years ago I started to secretly get into conbtacting them via email. They have visted me a few times for a hour or so during my lunch break. They drove over 3 1/2 hrs to visit me for 1 hour. It was very nice.

I know she won't let me have freinds. I mentioned that a guy at work has some property that he would invite me to turkey hunt with him on. She said no to that. 

I suspect that she doesn't like being around other people because in the past others have pointed out how controlling she is.

 

MNot entirely true. Its more that other people have let her down in the past and that she can not controll there behaviors. Example of this is in our back yard w  have neighbors with small kids. They play in the back yards as kids do. Splashing in the pool and swingin on the swings and laughing and having a good time.  Wel lthis is all noise and they need to shut up.

Another example: neighbor boy and sister are shooting baskets and playing basketball in there driveway. Laughing having a good time. Becasue they are black she says the damn "n" kids are out a gain. I don't know where the racial hostilities have come fro. Its gotten worse that last few years.

[MaybeSo]

Let her have a breakdown. It won't kill her! Nor will it kill you! 

The status quo is changing, this is extremely difficult for both of you. Let her grieve the loss, she is no longer the center of your universe! I'm sure it feels devestating but it has to happen, she is not a baby and you do her no favors by treating her like she is an infant. Continue to suggest compromises that work for both of you. And let her have her feelings!

[Cipher13]

Sometime offer a compramise isn't follwed up with the best results. However I must stay the course.

[lostandunsure]

You have to have an outlet that is just for you, separate from her. You have to. I learned that a long time ago. I'm in a 17 year marriage with my uBPDw, who sounds similar to your wife, though I must admit that you're seems a bit more extreme.

It was expected that I would do everything she wanted, that every request would be filled immediately. If we had plans and she changed her mind last minute, I couldn't even stop to think about what it would mean, I had to agree instantly, no questions asked. If I hesitated even a second, there would be an argument. My wife wanted to know where I was at all times, though didn't need 10 minute updates fortunately.

I started pushing back, I started saying "I need time for myself, at work, I have constant demands from coworkers, at home I have constant demands from you, I need time for myself or I will burn out. It simply can't continue this way." She, of course pushed back saying that I just didn't want to be around her, that I didn't love her. I stressed that this was not the case, that I love her very much but I still need time to myself that I don't have to account back to her for, I may tell her what I did, but I don't have to... . Sitting in the car to and from work, does not count as "alone time". I also stressed that needed a hobby that is all my own. I also reminded her that she has all day to herself, she can do whatever she wants, can go wherever she wants, without question, why is it wrong for me to expect a few hours to myself every now and then. I reiterated that none of this meant that I didn't love her, it just means that I need time to rejuvenate... . It wasn't easy and it took time.

Fortunately, I think she saw that I really was burning out and that if she didn't give me time, I was going to either leave her or sink so far into a depression that she would lose me anyway. It probably helped that I was seeing a therapist for depression and was put on medication for it for the first time in my life, which I think was a bit of a wake up call for her. So, I now have some free time. I have a hobby (Some may say it's silly for a grown man, but I collect lego sets, Star Wars and the Architecture series, and put them together when I have some down time, they are proudly displayed in my office at home). She sees that having some down time and a hobby makes me happy, that I'm more likely to be able to do things that she wants and I'm less stressed. Now, she buys me lego kits to put together, she supports my interests. I even have an office now, which was a bit of a question at times. It has taken a long time to get here. I should stress that when we were first together that she made me give up my hobbies because she was intensely jealous of the time I spend on them, it has not been an easy road.

I posted in another thread that I think you started that she even now helps with the dishes and laundry. It's not perfect, but we're making progress. You have to stand up for yourself, because no one else will. And it may be hard to hear, but if she leaves you because you won't be a perfect servant, who answers to her every whim, then then it may be better for your sanity, because no one can live like that, even actual servants have downtime to themselves.

[MaybeSo]

Yea, it may not be the right timing when she is really upset. That's okay. You don't have to fix everything. Little babies and children have breakdowns and sob their hearts out all the time and they survive ok. She will be okay.

[Cipher13]

I started pushing back, I started saying "I need time for myself, at work, I have constant demands from coworkers, at home I have constant demands from you, I need time for myself or I will burn out. It simply can't continue this way." She, of course pushed back saying that I just didn't want to be around her, that I didn't love her. I stressed that this was not the case, that I love her very much but I still need time to myself that I don't have to account back to her for, I may tell her what I did, but I don't have to... .

I have been trying to get somehting like this in place. With absolutley zero success. This break down was part of discussing that very topic.  I  say once in a while I need to have some me time... . she hears it as I want to always be apart for ever.  She says she doesn't understand why I would ever want to be apart from her. She said if she could have it she would be with me 24/7 constanly.

[lostandunsure]

She said if she could have it she would be with me 24/7 constanly.

My wife still says this. I think she said these exact words just the other day. She even gets nervous with me going to work and would have me work from home every day if I could, but I can't and she likes me getting a paycheck (as do I). But she acknowledges even with the way she feels, that I have to have an outlet. It was not easy getting here. She's been in therapy and they've told her that I need to take care of myself, I've been in therapy where I had her attend from time to time and the therapist told me that I had to take time to myself. People who know us have asked me in front of her if I'm taking time for myself. My sister (who has been through major depression and even attempted suicide) stressed to both of us that the primary caregiver has to take time for themselves. It has been a long, long road.

It's not easy for her to see that I have my own needs and that sometimes those needs are apart from her. I can't stress how hard it is for her to acknowledge it is for her to deal with that, but she has to. She had to come to terms with that, or as I said before she would lose me one way or the other.

Believe it or not, as hard as it was to deal with, seeing her break down, I think it's a sign that she's realizing that something is going to have to change. Whether she follows through with her threat or not, she knows that it's not going to continue the way it has been. Change is not easy, especially for someone with BPD. Things may even get harder before you see positive change, but if you stick to your guns, hopefully things will work out.

[SadWifeofBPD]

I started pushing back, I started saying "I need time for myself, at work, I have constant demands from coworkers, at home I have constant demands from you, I need time for myself or I will burn out. It simply can't continue this way." She, of course pushed back saying that I just didn't want to be around her, that I didn't love her. I stressed that this was not the case, that I love her very much but I still need time to myself that I don't have to account back to her for, I may tell her what I did, but I don't have to... .

I have been trying to get somehting like this in place. With absolutley zero success. This break down was part of discussing that very topic.  I  say once in a while I need to have some me time... . she hears it as I want to always be apart for ever.  She says she doesn't understand why I would ever want to be apart from her. She said if she could have it she would be with me 24/7 constanly.

Yet... . yet... . she says that you're a jerk when you're around her.  See how crazy this is?

You need some of your own tiime, your own space.

She always tried to isolate me from frineds and roomates. One

Again, I can nearly promise you that she does this so that they won't have any influence on you about HER.  Deep down, your wife knows that outsiders will criticize her demands (that's why "others have let her down"... . they haven't been her personal slaves as she likes.)

My brother's wife has BPD.  She knows that my family is "on to her" so she never lets my brother be around us unless she's there, too... . monitoring and making sure that we aren't talking to him about her outrageous behavior.  She has no idea that her H calls me on his drive to work to "get around" her controlling nature.  My brother was supposed to fly out this Friday to attend an event for my son (his Godson).  Lo and behold, now SIL is coming, too.  That's ok... . but very predictable. 

[Cipher13]

I can try to point out all the poeple that sometimes do things by themselves frotm time to time. I mentioned that her dad has gone hunting without her mom alot. And only recently has she started to go with him since there are no grand kids in the house to look after... . (Sister lived with them for a few years after divorce)... . although I think her dad might be bringing her mom fo similar reasons... . my w mad a comment about her dad wanting to buy a house out of the city after retirement to isolate her mom from the city (ie family)

I tel lher its ok to soemtimes do soemthing for themselves. Its quite common. My parents have done it. (Still do in fact. They have a cabin my dad goes to for hunting fishing and relaxing... sometime my mom goes and most of the time she does not... he is retired she is not.)

But reasoning liek this only works with poeple using a reasonable mindset.

[Viso]

My H is like that too... . always saying I don't care like I used to. Basically, like a kid wanting the center of attention.

We keep doing things for them because we feel that by doing things they want, they will be happy and that there will be peace at home. Sometimes when I do things for him and seems a bit unwilling, my H would rage about it. Honestly, working full time at work and at home and with 2 kids, how much time do I have to do his stuff?

BPDs are just demanding and keeps pushing your limit. And there is no such thing as "fair" in their dictionary.

I once asked my H to be fair because I am a human being too and sometimes I get tired, cant do everything his way or lose my temper. He said that's an excuse. He said there is no such thing as "FAIR"... . that the world will always be unfair.

[Viso]

And I know how devastating it is because my H now is refusing to talk to me.

He has decided to only talk when others are around and ignore me when we are alone.

Whenever we are alone, I see him putting up his angry face... . just kills me why he has to make himself this way

[Cipher13]

always saying I don't care like I used to

I think they use the past for there ammo. I hear i need to be more like i used to be. Or that because susch and such thign that happen in the past I am obligated to do what ever she says... thats fair in her mind.

I am a human being too and sometimes I get tired, cant do everything his way or lose my temper

When I get upset or lose my temper I am told I am being mean. I can't have a negative mood no matter what is going on. Its percieved as directed towrds her.  I tired to have a talkabout how best to inteact if I'm not is a happy mood. Her responce was that it is more fun to be a in a good mood rather than a bad mood... . I wanted to say "yeah and how about you taking on your own advise" I held my tongue.