I messed up

[raytamtay3]

My DD turns 14 next week and for months has been after me to give her permission to get her tongue pierced. I've always said no. I also said no to a nose ring and tattoos both of which she got anyway.  She constantly tells me that she is coming to me this time, asking for my permission. But that if she doesn't get my permission, she is going to do it anyway.

I'm an overthinker which in my case is bad. My initial thought when she asked for it again as a B-Day present was no. And I need to start sticking with my initial thought. But what do I do? Overthink it. And what happened? I said ok. Why? Because I'm reading too much about validation and trying to let our kids feel accepted, etc. And adding to that, that my daughter is coming to me asking for permission. And I know she is going to get it anyway and would rather take her someplace to have it done right. When she gets me alone is when I cave. She is queen manipulated.  I know we aren't suppose to use that term with our BPD kids, but I'm sorry, my daughter IS manipulates. She will tell me everything I want to hear to get what she wants. Butter me up.  Cry and plead her case in what a lot of people deem a very mature manner. And I caved! AGAIN!  And now, I have to tell her no.  How I've thought more on it and that she has to trust that I know what is best for her right now, and that getting a tongue ring is just not sanitary or practical at this time. That she is too young to make this type of decision for herself and as her mother, I have to do what I feel is right for her until she is of age. Any suggestions on how better to say this after screwing myself by saying yes already! I'm such an idiot! I always fall for her niceness. She has been an angel this week because she has this goal. Until last night that is... .

It's not going to go well.  But she proves to me time and time again she is not mature enough to make these decisions. She looks 18 people. She carries herself maturely. But the fact is, she is only 14! I have to keep reminding myself of this.  I specifically told her to be home by 9:30 at the latest last night for curfew.  She text'd me at 1:20 AM saying how she feel asleep at her friend's house watching a movie, how it was too late to walk home and for me to come get her. I was asleep and didn't get the message until 6:00 am this morning.  But my daughter lies. She's done this before.

We heard her on the phone yesterday via the camras talking about how she wanted to meet up wiht n old boyfriend last night who lives in PA. We live in NJ. She's already taking off for the weekend a few weeks back to PA. Filed missing persons, etc. We also heard her tell her friend on the video how her and her friends went driving around in a truck the other night. The night she asked me for $10 to go to the movies... . another lie.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Edited: I told her last week I was "leading towards yes", never actually said yes though. That may have saved me.

[raytamtay3]

Welp, looks like I didn't have to be the bad guy and tell her no for basically no really good reason until just now. But my claim now is she just doesn't have good judgement just yet to make such a decision.

House rule is nobody in house when we aren't home. Cameras caught her and three friends entering home today. I called her friend's phone and daughter claimed she was at friends house sleeping. I said that's a lie because I see you. She still denied it. I sent her snap shot picture. She laughed at me. I said "I know, it's funny right? Almost as funny as you not getting your beloved tongue piercing". Sorry, but I was pissed. She replied "Ctfu, I got tattoes and other piercings and never got you permission for one of them good lucky to you bye". Grrr... . she infuriates me! I know it's the illness and I try not to lose site of that but it is so hard. My hot button is disrespect. Her strong suit is - disrespect! 

[jellibeans]

what state do you live in? Here is texas you can't get peircing under 16 and no tattoos until 18... . where is she getting these from?

I think you need some boundaries in place. If she is going to go around you and do something you have told her no to then I think there should be a consequence for that... .

[jellibeans]

Have you taken away her phone? Have you called the police? How are you dealing with her leaving the state?

[vivekananda]

Hi raytam, you make mistakes yeh? That means you are human. The important thing is to learn from the mistakes we make. It takes character to admit to making a mistake. It takes a clear head and strength to learn from them.

raytam it is such a difficult situation you face. A rebellious teen is a challenge at the best of times. I can't recall if you are seeing a therapist or not? I think it would be helpful for you to get some support in dealing with your situation. I don't think I could cope with what you have to, unless I had support and guidance face to face. Are there any groups that meet in your area? Can you access the TARA courses?

www.tara4BPD.org

TARA was started I think by Valerie Porr who wrote the brilliant book "Overcoming BPD". She is the mother of a daughter with BPD and runs course for parents and loved ones of those with BPD. She is excellent. I think she is based in NY... .

So, you would benefit from some work on boundaries. Boundaries need to be based on values - we have discussed that I think. Boundaries also benefit from consequences (not punishments). An excellent book on boundaries is: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend.

Validation is about recognising the feelings that a person has. So, if your dd says I want to get my tongue pierced, a validating response might be "I can see that is important to you. You know my position on that already. When you are an adult you can do it, while you are in my care, I will not give permission for it." When you say that you see it is important to her, you are acknowledging her. (it's too hard to understand the emotion behind it at this stage). When she riles up, your response is 'I can see you are angry.' etc etc

raytam validation takes a lot of understanding and practice. This is an excellent book on how to validate, parents here swear by it: "I don't have to make everything all better" by G & J Lundsberg.

It is horrible to feel manipulated by our kids. And it happens so much. You have a power struggle in your home and there should be no question about who is in control - but your dd is continually doing just that. I could go on for ages and tell you what to do, but it wouldn't help I think. I think you need to support from learning about how to handle it from those experts who wrote those books. And I think you would find face to face support such a relief.

what do you think?

Vivek    

[raytamtay3]

Have you taken away her phone? Have you called the police? How are you dealing with her leaving the state?

She hasn't had her phone for a while because she lost it for like the 6th time and I refuse to replace it. But when she did have it, I had parental controls set up when she misbehaved where she could only call me, her father and her step-father and visa versa.

Cops were called about running away. Also have enlisted crises intervention resources and have been assigned a caseworker who is working with us on having her sent to a group home if/when it comes down to it.

[raytamtay3]

what state do you live in? Here is texas you can't get peircing under 16 and no tattoos until 18... . where is she getting these from?

I think you need some boundaries in place. If she is going to go around you and do something you have told her no to then I think there should be a consequence for that... .

She pierced her own nose and a friend her age, who we recently found out had a tattoo kit, gave her them. He also gave them to a number of other kids and the mother is having charges pressed against her.

[raytamtay3]

So, you would benefit from some work on boundaries. Boundaries need to be based on values - we have discussed that I think. Boundaries also benefit from consequences (not punishments). An excellent book on boundaries is: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend.

what do you think?

Vivek    

I'm game for anything at this point. Thank you.

[raytamtay3]

I'm definetly a work in progress. No doubt about that.

But man oh man is this stuff hard! The caseworker we have deals with a lot of troubled kids and even said how my DD is worse! I wish I could share a picture of her. My DD is beautiful, smart and charming. It's just so heartbreaking to see this road she headed down. And realizing that there's not much I can do about. Sure, I can take things away. It makes it even worse with her though. Sure I can put her away. And I will in an effort to protect her. But do I see it working? No.

I know you all probably think that she is a result of bad parenting because the tongue ring thing. But istances like that have been few and far between. I caved on this after months and months of the relentless badgering and feeling it was the less of two evils because she will get it done. But I'm not giving permission for it. So a natural consquence may be it gets infected or worse. Like her belly button did.

She waltzed in again at 11:40 PM last night. And just called me. I can't hide when I'm frusterated with her. It's in the tone of my voice. Sorry. Yes I will work on the validating crap, but it will do no good with her. I hate that I got to this way of thinking. But you have to understand, every single time I ease up, it blows up in my face! And I've had it.  Anyway, she asked what my problem was. I said "oh I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with you walking in at 11:40 last night".  She replied "It wasn't 11:40, it was 11:00. And this is my last week of summer before I have to start school. And I really only have one day left because tomorrow we have to go school clothes shopping".  I told her to save her breath, that I had to get back to work, she said wait, and I hung up.  I'm frusterated people. Burnt out. Depressed. You name it I'm it.  :'(

[raytamtay3]

PS: Had meeting with caseworker last night who is assigning us a therapist who will work 1 hour for family session and 1 hour one-on-one with daughter. We've been down this road many times before though.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Oh boy is this a vent day. Please bear with me.

I really don't know how much more I can take. The things I've been hearing about concerning what my daughter does, is breaking my heart! We are talking multiple sexual partners. People she doesn't even know! Letting random boys do stuff to her! She is only fricken 14! I can't take it. I really really can't. I'm at a loss over what to do. It's killing me. I hate this roller coaster ride of being so angry at her, then feeling sorry for her, trying to make it better, and cylcing back to the beginning. I want my little girl back. I want the bond we had when she was little. And every time I think things are getting better, kaboom! I end of feeling played. My heart gets broken over and over and over again. :'( :'( :'( I feel powerless. I've tried almost everything at this point to get her help. And she is getting worse and worse every day.

Why can't she see what she is doing is wrong? She knows we have the rule of nobody allowed in the house and even have cameras and she still brings people in! She comes home later and later every night if at all!

We have three rules. Nobody allowed in the house and be respectful. And be home by curfew. Is that asking too much?

[raytamtay3]

One more thing, .  The caseworker told me last night to call her supervisor who is going to instruct me on how to get around the legal system to get my daughter placed in a group home faster. Because daughter is going to be 14, she had refuse services. They said that the only way to get her in to the home is if it's court ordered. So we have to continue our paper trail so we can get infront of a judge. I hate this!

[jellibeans]

raytamtay3

Here is what is what I see... . i feel your dd is getting worse and worse and it is a cry for help. There is obviously a power struggle going on as well. I liked that you didn't take her clothes shopping she needs to know that is a privillege... . she has clothes already I am sure so she can wear them.

I think you need to come to the point where you let go of who you thought your daughter was going to be and realize she has taken a different path. Grieve for that little girl but let it go. It is causing you too much grief and taking your energy away.

It is hard to watch our girls do the things they do... . but it is their life and their mistakes to make and hopefully learn from them.

I think you are doing great through this... . you are not a bad parent so don't carry that shame with you.

You have a plan and that is even better... . getting her into a group home might be just what she needs. Have you looked at any RTC?

Your daughter sounds so much like mine with all the peircings... . she has about 8 in one ear... . most done by herself. My daughter got her nose peirced this year... . it is not the end of the world and she is 16. It is the tattoos that worry me... . that is forever but again it is her body and she will have to live with it and one day she will regret her homemade art... . believe me there will be a consequence to her action.

I am sorry to ramble on but I have been where you are many times... . here is what helped us... .

reading Valerie Porr's book Overcoming BPD... . I tell you it is my bible.

boundaries... . we have boundaries and that helps reduce the conflict.

DBT therapy... . my daughter finally found a T that she liked and she goes willingly and works on her issues.

She went to a RTC for 2 months... . she doesn't want to go back and we told her if things didn't get better and we didn't see effort on her part then we would revisit sending her away again. This is not a threat and it is not said meanly but it is a fact. If she is unable to function and continues to have one suicide attempt after another etc... . then she needs a higher level of care. I am not sure of the rules in your state but you can always take her to a different state for treatment.

Can you tell me if your d has a DX? What is it? What doctors does she see?

[raytamtay3]

The diagnoses we've had over the years are as follows: 1. ADHD, ODD 2. ADHD, ODD and CD 3. ADHD, transition problems, and ODD 4. BPD "traits: 5. Intermittent Explosive Disorder, ADHD

We are involved with a system of care in our county. Have been assigned a caseworker who is getting us set up with a family therapist. I asked that they find one who has experience in working with individuals with BPD.

She sees a phyc. specifically just for medication. Which she has not been taking consistently either.

[jellibeans]

raytamtay3

I have seen my daughter completely out of control when meds were being changed or she was not taking them. Do you think she is behaving worse with the med change?

This is the hard part... . how to convince your dd to take the meds... . how to convince her there is something wrong with her and it is not everyone around her. These two things are key. Can you find a therapist? DBT?

[raytamtay3]

raytamtay3

I have seen my daughter completely out of control when meds were being changed or she was not taking them. Do you think she is behaving worse with the med change?

This is the hard part... . how to convince your dd to take the meds... . how to convince her there is something wrong with her and it is not everyone around her. These two things are key. Can you find a therapist? DBT?

No because for one, she was like this before the meds and second, she doesn't even taken them consistently which are are going to discuss the importance of tonight.

[raytamtay3]

One positive thing I've noticed is she hasn't been as explosive lately. Which may or may not be as a result to the meds.

[jellibeans]

I do beleive if you could could get her to full dosage and have her take her meds consistantly you would see improvement

[raytamtay3]

I try to have hope it would too jellibeans.

It's funny. Believe me when I tell you, to meet me you would think things are hunky dory. In fact the caseworker's aid asked me last night, how I'm holding it together because I seem like I've got everything under control. She isn't the first to say that to me. And she isn't the first to also add what a great mom I am. Every single therapist has said they same thing. And my response is, because I still have hope despite everything. I will never give up that hope until my last breath. And also that I hold things in. So what you see on the outside is not refletive of how I feel inside. And I also told them last night I have this board for support. And they were very happy to hear that. I said I need the outlet or I will implode. So thank you everyone for giving my your advice and keeping me from losing it. I am very thankful I found this board. 

[jellibeans]

this board has helped me through some really hard times too... . and I really don't know where I would be without it.

keep having hope Raytamtay3... . that is what gets me through the hard times. Accepting that she is mentally ill also helps me a great deal. I use to be so angry and now I see her very differently. When she is being very mean and hurtful are the times when she is hurting the most.

I keep this quote handy so I can see it

Love me when I least deserve it because that is when I need it most

keep us posted... . take a deep breath... . stay calm... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

this board has helped me through some really hard times too... . and I really don't know where I would be without it.

keep having hope Raytamtay3... . that is what gets me through the hard times. Accepting that she is mentally ill also helps me a great deal. I use to be so angry and now I see her very differently. When she is being very mean and hurtful are the times when she is hurting the most.

I keep this quote handy so I can see it

Love me when I least deserve it because that is when I need it most

keep us posted... . take a deep breath... . stay calm... .

Wow. that qupte is perfect. Thanks for sharing that. I will try to remember it. Have a great weekend.

[griz]

raytamtay3:  My daughter went for a few years asking for all kinds of piecing, hair color chanes and tatoos.  She has a small nose ring which I allowed her to get at 15 and she has changed her hair color many times.  Whenever she asked about a tatoo I would answer with questions like "what do you think you would like"  "do you think you would be happy with that a year or two from now" and "let me think about it".  She never did get a tatoo and now at 18 if she does bring it up I tell her to really think about it since all the ones she wanted in the past she would not want now.

When I think about all of the things she wanted to do when she was 14-17 I am left to believe that she was constantly trying to find herself.   To fit in somewhere.  Something to make people notice her and to make herself stand out.  It all comes down to self-esteem. (of which she really has none).  I didn't see things start to get better until she finally found a therapist in DBT that she liked.  She had a terrible time in school where by 11th grade we had the school supply home tutoring and she graduated early.  School was definetly a trigger for her and she needed to be out of there.  Once she started college she was able to redefine herself and work on herself.  No people, teachers or kids with preconceived opinnions of her.

I remember how hard it was but like you I am willing to fight until my last breath.  I will keep you in my thoughts.

Griz

[vivekananda]

ray tam, you are a wonderful mum. I can tell. Don't think we would think otherwise. Remember we have kids with BPD and we have been in your shoes. We are always here for you.

I was remembering the FOG as I was reading the posts about. You know what it's like in a fog, you can't see clearly... . F (fear) O (obligation) and G (guilt) have the same sort of effect. We try to avoid the FOG. Check this out, ok?

What it means to be in the FOG

Remember, validation is about listening and hearing the emotion. It is not about justifying your decision, explaining why you have made a decision or taking abuse.

Stay with us raytam,

Vivek    

[raytamtay3]

I told her I thought more on it, and decided that I didn't think it was a good idea. She told me she is going to get it anyway. I said well you don't have my permission.

And guess what. Yesterday I noticed that you got herself another tattoo! On her ankel! Of course she is claiming it's fake which is bs. It's the infinity symbol with an anchor. 14!

[vivekananda]

It does sound like a power struggle between you, doesn't it? Do your best raytam to avoid power struggles.

You set the boundaries, she disobeys.  It may help to revisit boundary setting, to deepen your understanding (to help you through this). Ideally a boundary when broken has consequences. What consequences do you have in place for this? Any?

I have no idea of appropriate consequences in this situation. But I think it is something that needs to be addressed. If she is defiant here, another time, when it is a really important situation she will continue to be defiant.

Have you read: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend? It may be time to either revisit the book or if you don't have it, to invest in it.

I don't think there is any urgency for you to act at the moment, so you could wait until you have reconsidered boundaries and consequences and then figure out what to do.

cheers,

Vivek    

[raytamtay3]

It does sound like a power struggle between you, doesn't it? Do your best raytam to avoid power struggles.

You set the boundaries, she disobeys.  It may help to revisit boundary setting, to deepen your understanding (to help you through this). Ideally a boundary when broken has consequences. What consequences do you have in place for this? Any?

I have no idea of appropriate consequences in this situation. But I think it is something that needs to be addressed. If she is defiant here, another time, when it is a really important situation she will continue to be defiant.

Have you read: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend? It may be time to either revisit the book or if you don't have it, to invest in it.

I don't think there is any urgency for you to act at the moment, so you could wait until you have reconsidered boundaries and consequences and then figure out what to do.

Heck yes we have boundaries and consequences, both of which are useless in our case. And heck yes it’s a power struggle with my daughter. Man, I’m beginning to think my daughter has far more issues than other’s on this board with these questions. Please don’t take that the wrong way. But I just get the sense you think I’m too lenient of a parent or something. That what is working for some on here should work for us. But it doesn’t.

So here goes. These are the things we’ve tried, and that have failed. We went down to antenna tv, no internet access, cell phones taken away, grounded, all snack food taken away.  We’ve called the police on her oh about 20 times so far this year for being out past curfew. We’ve tried positive reinforcement. We’ve tried setting goals. We have deadbolts on all of our doors.  We have cameras installed in our house.

Our boundaries are clear. 1. Come in by your 9:00 curfew. 2. Be respectful 3. Do not have anyone in the house when we are not home. Fail, fail, fail.

My daughter does what she wants when she wants. Nothing we do seems to work whatsoever at this point.  With all that said, I am still up for suggestions and am continuing to navigate through this site to learn as many techniques as I possibly can.

cheers,

Vivek    

[/b]

[vivekananda]

Hi raytam,

I don't think you are too lenient at all. Neither do I think you are too strict. I do hear your frustration and I can understand that.   I had a power struggle with my dd when she was 14 and it wasn't good. Also raytam, I do not purport to be an expert on boundaries myself, but I have learnt a bit since I came on this site. So, I'll give it a go... .

1. Our children live in a world of distorted mirrors. They simply don't see things as we do, they live through their emotions and want instant gratification. They do not consider consequences. So, this means that communication is difficult - when we talk with them, we assume that they like the rest of the world (almost) have the same perceptions we do. When we challenge their perceptions, this is invalidating to them.

2. It is so hard to be calm when our children behave so outrageously. But when we allow ourselves to be angry, critical or act to reject our children, this only serves to heighten their emotional outrage. When you do not give in to her inappropriate demands to accept her behaviour, world war breaks out. But if we are cool headed, calm and still accepting of our child we can implement boundaries without rejecting the person.

There is nothing wrong at all with your rules. The way you tell it though, they are rules which when broken lead to punishments, instead of boundaries which when broken, have consequences. Maybe you think this is pedantic. But I suspect you may be sabotaging your efforts unbeknownst to yourself. If the mind set is rules and punishment, the communication is judgemental and critical - that means it is invalidating. If you dd feels invalidated that will further alienate her from you.

Please raytam, I do not want to seem to underestimate the difficulty of your situation. What I want to do is give you another way of seeing it that may be helpful for you.

In my previous life, I was powerfully judgemental - I think I have changed that a bit now. The reason I tell you is because I was totally bamboozled to see how that was so. I then I really struggled to find a way to work on changing that. In our world, it is normal and everyday for people to be judgemental and so often it is not an issue - but with 'difficult people' or people with PDs, it is a big issue. You can go over earlier threads to see my please for help understanding this.

I know that working on defining my values was essential for me and my dh to be able to establish the most important boundary with our dd. Defining my values was not as easy as it seemed. With my typical arrogance I though I had it down pat. Not so, and in working through what my values were, I learnt heaps to help me avoid being judgemental or critical. Here on this site we talk about the importance of boundaries based on values. So, if I asked what value is the 9 o'clock rule based upon, can you answer? I think a 9 pm curfew is imminently reasonable and appropriate but I think if I were you I would struggle to see what the value underlying it was. I would get caught up with explaining that my role as a responsible parent means that I should... .

This leads me to consider what purpose are boundaries? Simply, if I live by my values then I need boundaries to protect them. So, respect is a critically important value to me (and you). In my house, we are all home by 9pm preparing for the night and the next day - special circumstances excepted. This limit of 9pm is because as the responsible adult in the house I need to ensure the safety of all members of the household. This boundary exists because it is respectful to me of my needs as head of house. The boundary is to protect me.

Be respectful is a given, it is not a boundary. No yelling in the house is a boundary. Of course this applies to everyone then. How easy is that to stick to?

So, I suggested it may be helpful to revisit boundaries - not to change your rules, but to see if you could look at them again and find better ways to make them work. The book I referred to is said by all who read it as excellent because it so helps make sense of everything and brings positive results.

As for that power struggle... . that is something else again. I tried my best to avoid power struggles when dd was in her teens and ever after... . not always successfully either. I think if I had learnt more about 'boundaries' then it could have been easier for me. I do so hope it gets easier for you raytam.   

my heart goes out to you, I know only too well that it is not easy,

Cheers,

Vivek    

[raytamtay3]

Hi Vivek . I'm sorry if I got overly sensitive. It's just so fricken' hard. I'm exhausted. I feel like everything I do is the wrong thing. Could you give me an example of one of your boundaries and what you would do if it was broken.  I'm a bit confused about rules and consquences. I consider a rule a boundary and a consequence a punishment (phone taken away, etc.).

I have so many books on my nightstand relative to BPD that the one you recommended about boundaries is going to have to be put on hold for a bit.

[vivekananda]

You are allowed to be sensitive, I am a sensitive soul too... . many of us here are   

I can talk more about validation I think than boundaries sadly. Because my dd is 32 and sort of n/c or l/c boundaries are not so important to us. I look forward to the day when they do become important to us.

So, we had money troubles with our dd. She would only make contact when she wanted money. She would let her bills/credit card mount up and then eg Friday 5pm ring and ask for money for something that needed to be paid last week... . and the amounts were getting larger and larger, into the thousands. It was having an impact on our budgeting so that while we had the money, it required us to pull the belt tighter to accommodate the amount and the immediacy of the situation. We were truly worried for her, whether she would become homeless, whether she would resort to drug dealing, all sorts of things.

Boundary step no 1. We said "After this time we give you $, we will not give you any money unless we have receipts and more than a week's notice. And only $ for a T." Her response seemed catastrophic. Dh had big trouble sticking to the boundary because her felt he knew better. She accused us (me) of manipulating and not trusting her (doh!). Dh gave in and gave over $s.

Boundary step no 2. I hit the roof with dh and explain to him that she was successfully 'triangulating' us and manipulating him. I revisited my reading and went to my values and said to dh. This is not a punishment of her, it is a boundary based on respect, it has nothing to do with us trusting her or not. She needs to respect our situation and we just can't give over $'s when she wants etc etc. He agrees... . again 

Boundary step no 3. Next time he sort of caves in again. But this time there was a less sense of urgency and a sort of 'look' at her credit card statement. Again we solidified our resolve. No $'s without a bill and we pay for a T only on an automatic basis, (but we would always be open to consider other requests).

The whole 'negotiating' of this boundary went back and forth over many, many months. Now both dh and dd have it down pat (sort of) and we only pay for a T one session at a time and we get advance warning too. Of course she hasn't seen him for months, so we are paying out nothing. She is not on the streets, we don't believe she has returned to the drug thing. The sky didn't fall in.

So, I expect, because your situation is so different, you might have trouble relating to this. But I do think that there is stuff for you to learn from this:

• If the values are solidly understood and thought through, you cannot avoid staying on track - because everything is measured against that value.



• She tried to make out it was 'punishment' type stuff, but it was consistently explained in relation to values as to why it was important - not argued.



• The boundary was negotiable (eg room for exceptions... . we did end up paying T bills without a receipt or invoice, and that was ok)



• It was not about controlling her behaviour (that power struggle) it was about respect for us.

If you have Valerie Porr's book on your nightstand, she has a chapter on boundaries. It would be worth a look at that.

There are other mums with experience in house rules with teenagers, they might have good advice on boundaries.

Does this help?

Vivek